OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza/Archive 6

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Closing down OrthodoxSource and SR

Friends, I apologize for being absent for awhile. Please let me know if you have any outstanding wiki issues you need to resolve!
As of today, I am shutting down OrthodoxSource. Apologies to IXThis888, who has put in a good deal of work. However, there was not enough of a community of contibutors and moderators there, and I think it would be better for us all at this point to keep the focus on this wiki. Also, I will likely be shutting down SR soon. There has been no activity there for a long time, and I'm afraid that the required documents (about copyrights and policies) were never translated. — FrJohn (talk) 12:45, November 25, 2008 (UTC)


hi, i have photos of the raifa monastary i would like to upload as well as a convent neasr yoshkar ola russia which i do not beleive yet has an article how would i create a new article for this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kharaku (talkcontribs) .

Hello, on the left hand side of your screen ... scroll down until you see the words

"upload file" .. then follow the steps ...its not too hard and always someone will help you categorise your work ... Good luck! Vasiliki 01:16, November 29, 2008 (UTC)

Adding a Photo....

I have been wanting to post my photo, but do not know HTML. Could someone please give me a tip on how to do this?

Thanks! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jacifus (talkcontribs) .

Give a thorough read to the materials linked in the welcome message on your talk page. There's plenty there that should help. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 23:56, December 3, 2008 (UTC)

Seminarian input

Over at Citizendium, there is a programme whereby faculty at various universities enjoin their students to post their work. I was wondering if it would make sense here to start publishing seminarians' papers. They come with faculty oversight and would be of sufficient quality to support reliability here. Thomas Simmons 09:28, December 19, 2008 (PST)

There is also a Wiki Site called "Patristic Wiki" that you should look at. Father John set it up recently (mid-November I think) and they are asking for people to contribute in regards to patristic related stuff .... 22:47, December 18, 2008 (UTC)
1. This is not really a place for papers, but for encyclopedia articles. If seminarians wish to write Orthodox encyclopedia articles here, they are welcome to do so.
2. PatristicsWiki is not connected with OrthodoxWiki and, as far as I know, not set up by (our) Fr. John. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 01:54, December 19, 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I know that PatristicWiki is not linked with OrthodoxWiki but I mentioned it since I presume that everyone's core intention is to spread Orthodoxy in the way they know how ... who you are affiliated with wrt posting information publically is irrelevant as long as the end users are connected to God and the Truth. I had the impression (our) Father John was involved with it ... since, he monitors the emails for the Ancient Faith podcast that Dcn Matthew has been delivering - and he is from Monachos.net So doh! Vasiliki 04:03, December 19, 2008 (UTC)

ROK's Basic Teaching on Human Dignity, Freedom and Rights

I learnt recently the Russian Church adopted a Basic Teaching on Human Dignity, Freedom and Rights. Metropolitan Kyrill held a speech at a conference in Vienna in 2006 where he said this teaching is meaningful to all christans and at the UN Human Rights Council he said in 2008 adoption of human rights is unsuccessful because it fades out moral. I believe this is important. Would there be interest to have an article on this topic?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Haiduk (talkcontribs) .

Perhaps you should make it a "sub-topic" under the Church of Russia since it is specific to their jurisdiction? I will give it a shot first if you want and then you can come in and edit??? Remember to sign your posts with three tilde (~) signs. Vasiliki 00:45, December 19, 2008 (UTC)
I'm glad with just doing a revision. I agree adding it to Church of Russia would be adequate. It's up to you to follow Fr. Andrew advice or convince him, if that is possible Haiduk
Honestly now, with no mucking around and with respect to Father Andrew its not MY job to convince and neither do I want to convince him since I trust what he is telling me :) However, if you wish to ..since it is your own idea ...go ahead. I merely was trying to be helpful but if its not appropriate for an article I can only just go with the guy who holds the petraxili .... :) Vasiliki 14:30, December 19, 2008 (UTC)
Well, my salvation is not dependent on having such an article at OrthodoxWiki. I just wanted to ensure information about this declaration finds it's way into this community. I guess (since it is not easy to write a reasonable article on this subject) it might be better to forward it to english language blogs or forums such as monachos.net. --Haiduk 16:34, December 20, 2008 (UTC)
That's interesting, but it's really more fit for a newspaper than an encyclopedia. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 02:27, December 19, 2008 (UTC)

Orthodoxy in Italy

I think it is completely inapropriate to use the title Orthodox Church in Italy for a non official orthodox church, that exists only 17 years, when in Italy orthodoxy has a history for many centuries. As far as I can see there is an article referred to Gennadios (Zervos) of Italy and Malta (the primate of the diocese of Italy of the Ecumenical Patriarchate), but there isn't an article for his archdiocese "Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Italy". Also in the english and italian wikipedia the problem is the same. It seems as if the users who created the "Orthodox Church in Italy" articles were really quickly to catch the title! But it should remain like this? I think no. And it is, in my point of view completely unacceptable if that happens also in the "Orthodoxwiki".--Sp!ros 21:27, December 29, 2008 (UTC)

Generally, we use whatever titles such groups give themselves, noting within the article that they are not in communion with mainstream Orthodoxy, etc.
In any event, I have removed the redirect and changed all the links to Chiesa Ortodossa in Italia.
You would be most welcome to provide the articles that you suggest are needed. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 20:58, December 31, 2008 (UTC)

Archbishop Nikitas (Lulias) Cekal Archimandrit Daniel Bambang Dwi Biantoro

Pada Februari 2007 lalu, Metropolitan Orthodox Hongkong dan Asia Tenggara, His Eminence Nikitas Lulias mengeluarkan keputusan pencekalan (pembebas-tugas-an) terhadap Archimandrit Daniel Bambang Dwi Biantoro, yang artinya Archimandrit Daniel Bambang tidak diperkenankan lagi (suspended) untuk berbicara, melakukan tugas penggembalaan jemaat atas nama gereja. Meskipun archimandrit Daniel mengklaim dirinya menjadi bagian dari satu gereja tertentu, tapi yang bersangkutan tidak lagi menerima putusan/ ketetapan (Canonical Release)dari Gereja sebagaimana disyaratkan. Hal ini atas sepengetahuan Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Maruli (talkcontribs) .

I'm honestly not sure what language this is, but unless you post here in English, you're not likely to get too many responses. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 18:46, January 4, 2009 (UTC)
It's Indonesian. Here's an English rendering (thanks to the ever-improving Google Translate) -- "In February 2007, the Orthodox Metropolitan Hong Kong and Southeast Asia, His Eminence Nikitas Lulias-ban issue a decision (liberator-task-an) of Archimandrit Daniel Bambang Dwi Biantoro, which means Archimandrit Daniel Bambang not be more (suspended) to speak, doing penggembalaan of the church in the name of the church. Although Daniel archimandrit claimed himself to be part of a particular church, but they no longer receive the decision / provisions (Canonical Release) from the Church, as required. This top sepengetahuan Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople." — FrJohn (talk) 02:05, January 5, 2009 (UTC)

Churches in Melbourne

I plan on uploading around one hundred photographs of churches in Melbourne to Wikimedia commons over the next few days. You are free to reuse them; all my work is released into the public domain. Hope to have done all of the Orthodox churches within a few months. Ottre 11:55, February 16, 2009 (UTC)

log in

why does no one ever log on and really have discussion on other pages? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rob (talkcontribs) .

I'm not really sure I understand what you mean. Could you explain a little more? —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 22:14, March 9, 2009 (UTC)

The Cemetery Chapel at Saint Anna's Skete?

I'm trying to remember the name of the cemetery chapel at Saint Anna's Skete on the Holy Mountain, the chapel where pilgrims generally worship on weekdays. Does anyone recall which saint the chapel venerates?

Father Andrew, is there a more likely page on this site where I might solicit a response?

Thanks, Isaak

Your best bet is at Talk:St. Anne's Skete (Athos). It may simply be that no one who knows has yet noticed and commented. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 13:42, March 20, 2009 (UTC)

John the Forerunner?

Hello, I have a question regarding the St. John the Forerunner page. It says something along the lines of, John the Baptist, also known as John the Forerunner... I was wondering if the two names should be switched, since John the Baptist is a more western term? --Iliada 00:24, March 20, 2009 (UTC)

Please direct questions about specific articles to the talk pages of those articles, e.g., Talk:John the Forerunner. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 13:42, March 20, 2009 (UTC)

Uploading sound recordings

I've tried uploading a sound recording (bell ringing) file to Orthodoxwiki Commons and have not been successful. I have tried as a Media file and a Image file, since some vocal music recording on Commons appear to be so uploaded. The recording is an mp3 file, through iTunes on a Mac. All attempts fail and bring up the warning banner of a corrupt, etc., file. I notice that there are no sound files in Commons other than those done originally by Father John last year. Has anyone tried uploading any sound files? Is there a special technique involved, what file ID is used:Media or Image, or other! Or is the upload capability not working for sound files?Wsk 13:45, March 23, 2009 (UTC)

Where is the actual wiki logo? I can't find it because the one in the corner is a link to the main page. Thanks! Theodoros 03:20, March 29, 2009 (UTC)

Theodoros, do you want it for a link button or something? — FrJohn (talk) 04:38, March 30, 2009 (UTC)

choice of a religion

Majority of us follow the religion of our parents.We are either circumcised in infancy or recited verses of a particular book in our ears declaring it as our religion before we understand its implications. When we grow up in a particular culture and society we have friends and relative we go along with them to church/synegogue/mandar or masjid.How can we when we are grown up sacrifice all our friends/ relatives by opting for another religion.How can all those whom I loved and cared about can be wrong or I will take the risk of isolation.There is hardly a very little percentage that study different religions and adopt the one that is more convincing or appeals to thier logic.In a survey conducted by me it was revealed that 80% of them have not read the divine book of thier religion in a language that they understand. Their knowledge of their religion was based upon oral communication of a preist or thier parents. We since are infancy are brain washed that we are on the right path and rest every body is an infidel and deserves to be hated or may even be killed.When over 90% of human specie follow the religion by virtue of being born in a particular family and 80% do not read even the divine book of thier religion than what difference does it make that one follows any of the religions.Asif azam

Well, I believe it doesn't matter what religion people are. In the Bible, Jesus never says that ONLY Christians get to heaven. One gets to heaven by carrying out Jesus' word: feeding the hungry, clothing the naked... --Iliada 10:45, May 12, 2009 (UTC)

Hello! I wouldn't want to explain too much here, just wanted to warmly greet you and note that you are right about most of the things. You are very fortunate to be born as an Orthodox Greek, and I believe you will be able to find a good priest near you, who can talk to you about the things you wrote here. Not everyone is so lucky to inherit from the ancestors the true faith and true worship.
We since are infancy are brain washed that we are on the right path and rest every body is an infidel and deserves to be hated or may even be killed. - I would think the opposite, that it is not the orthodox christian family and church that brainwashes us, but rather the "other" culture is having a great influence on us. And, of course, you won't be able to find hatred and "deserves to be killed" attitude in the orthodox church and family (if you still manage to do so, that would be an exception). Actually - what you are saying is a good example of that :-)
However, this is an encyclopaedia, a virtual community, the real community is in the church. Gia sou. K.panteleimon 20:12, June 24, 2009 (UTC)

New Orthodox Website Alert

Hey all, a new orthodox website has been launched ... you might all like to take a look and if anyone knows if this site needs to be referenced within any OrthodoxWiki articles can you please add as a link (if you know where).


List of Orthodox churches in a particular region

I recall that we had a discussion at one point about taking the lists off OW where possible - what was the outcome of this discussion? — by Pιsτévο talk complaints at 00:13, May 23, 2009 (UTC)

National Saints?

I couldn't find a discussion on this issue elsewhere, sorry if I repeat an issue which has already been elaborated.

The whole concept of national saints is odd to the (orthodox) christian mindset. We believe that in the Church there is neither Jew nor Greek (Gal. 3, 28).

It can also bring not little confusion, and potentially - uneccessary and unfruitful nationalistic quarrels. Look, for example, at the Saints pages on different languages - you'll find that saints listed in one national category in one language, are listed under a different nation in another language - because each nation tends to claim the saint its own.

The correct and orthodox approach is seen on the greek version of OrthodoxWiki - where the saints are categorized as we mention them in the Church - as Apostles, Martyrs, Monks etc. I guess that's why the national category Greek is missing - (metanoia to the greeks for that)!

Thus, I would like to suggest that the Saints categories of each language are reworked and the national prefix is removed. Of course the national origin of the saint can be mentioned in the text (although it can often be easily disputed), but it is not something that can categorize a saint.

K.panteleimon 21:19, May 31, 2009 (UTC)

As a Greek Orthodox, I grew up knowing Saints for who they where and what they did ... just like you point out ... this idea of "national" saints was introduced to me through the internet - it goes to show that bad habits can spring up from internet as well as the good things. If the administrators are happy to change this philosophy of "nationalism" I am happy to put in the work to change all the articles ... but there would need to be some sort of discussion between the administrators about it. Vasiliki 02:45, June 1, 2009 (UTC)
The grouping of saints into such categories is not for the purpose of nationalism, ethnocentricity, etc. Rather, it is simply for the usefulness of being able to find saints associated with particular geographic areas.
The saints are, of course, universal in a theological sense. But people from Corfu, for instance, have a great veneration for St. Spyridon because of his association with that actual place. At my parish, we venerate Raphael of Brooklyn because he founded it.
I'm of the opinion that we might want to rename the various categories to indicate place-names rather than what at least for now appears to be ethnic designations. (Mind you, some designations have no real ethnicity attached to them, e.g. "American" or "Australian.") —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 22:21, June 1, 2009 (UTC)
Without contradicting the main of what you were saying - the concept of saints as being particularly from a particular area isn't exactly new. Aside from the concept of patron saints of a country, there are numerous icons and feastdays celebrating All Saints of [Nation/Island/Mountain/Geographic Area] - usual commemoration for this is the sunday after All Saints. — by Pιsτévο talk complaints at 23:14, June 24, 2009 (UTC)

OrthodoxWiki on Serbian

I am interest to develop a sr.OrthodoxWiki.org page. Would anubody can help me?

Hi there. There used to be a serbian version, if I'm not wrong, the responsible person was Далибор Ђурић, a theology student at the faculty of Belgrade (That was written on his user page). However, I don't know what exactly Fr. John meant with this OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza#Closing_down_OrthodoxSource_and_SR if SR was the serbian version... K.panteleimon 20:00, June 23, 2009 (UTC)
Hi! Yes, we closed it does since it had sat uncared for for a long time and didn't have much content to begin with. If you can put a team together, and translate the necessary policy docs, I'd be happy to see this take off again! — FrJohn (talk)

Images in Commons and the main Wiki

Some time ago the file of images that were part of the main body of OrthodoxWiki was transferred to a new sub-set of the Wiki called 'OrthodoxWiki Commons' with instructions that Commons was to be used for uploading images files. But the older set of files remain in the main body and is addressable through the 'Starting points' of the Main Page of OrthodoxWiki. One can still upload images to the old file set. Since the original image files are still usable, a number of contributors still use the old images file system and the images are 'lost'!

I suggest that the old file system be removed from OrthodoxWiki and that the Main Page Images 'Starting points' be changes to directly work with the Commons system so that images can be placed in only one system of files. There are a number of image files that need to be transferred from the old file set to Commons, such as those added and used in the article Studenica Monastery.

Notice now that the Studenica images are in Commons. Wsk 19:53, August 20, 2009 (UTC)

I also notice rummaging through the 'cellars' of Commons that some contributors have uploaded articles to Commons that probably should have been uploaded to the main Wiki. In this regard Commons needs a little cleanup. Wsk 15:03, August 20, 2009 (UTC)

The Legal Status of the Ecumenical Patriarchate

Interesting site and article:

The Legal Status of the Ecumenical Patriarchate

HAP 07:12, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

Turkey's delay in introducing protection for the rights of religious minorities
HAP 07:53, October 23, 2009 (UTC)
And more:
TURKEY 2009 PROGRESS REPORT, look at pages 22 ->
HAP 14:14, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Hands of Jesus and the Saints in icons

I was wondering what the sign Jesus and the saints make with their right hand means. Is it a form of the sign of the cross? Also, why do some vary? I know of two different stlyes. One in which the pinky is up, and other in which it is down. Sometimes the fingers don't touch. Other times the palm is facing in, not out. What is this significance?

Hands of Jesus and the Saints in icons

I was wondering what the sign Jesus and the saints make with their right hand means. Is it a form of the sign of the cross? Also, why do some vary? I have seen several different forms of this. One in which the pinky is up, and other in which it is down. Sometimes the fingers don't touch. Other times the palm is facing in, not out. What is this significance?==Serbian language articles

I believe it is the blessing sign. When Christ, Saints and Orthodox priests show their hand with the pinky up they make the famous initials of Christ IC XC,(meaning Jesus Christ) with their hand. Even when you go to Divine Liturgy when the priest offers peace to us he does the sign with his right hand.

Serbian language articles

I'm confused! Shouldn't the many Serbian language articles by Dilic be presented in Orthodoxwkl as a separate "Related Site" in Other Languages as are the many others? i.e., Arabic, Bulgarian, etc. Wsk 18:06, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

polish orthodox wiki

what do you think about polish orthodox wiki? Could it start running?


I speak and write in German. I would be interested in starting German pages, how would I do so? Lukasbreen 03:01, May 7, 2010 (UTC)

1500 ro articles

At May 27, 2010, ro.OrthodoxWiki.org achieved 1500 articles. :-) --Inistea 23:38, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Monastery Sub-Categories

I notice that we have a mixed definition of placement of monasteries in the monastery sub-categories. There is a mix of monasteries based geographically and "ethnically", that is by jurisdiction. This is confusing and heightens ethnic deviousness, especially in the new worlds. I recommend the sub-category assignments be made on a geographical basis only. Wsk 23:51, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

Hi Wsk, I think it might be helpful to sort by jurisdiction and don't find it divisive. -— FrJohn (talk) 04:51, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Aubert of Avranches - Orthodox Saint?

Greetings. I have a question as to whether Aubert of Avranches (+720) is in the Orthodox Canon of Saints, (Western Church Saint). The Wikipedia article says his feast day is Sept. 10, but I did not find him under that date here in OW. Checked a couple other sites too, no luck. Apparently the Archangel Michael is said to have appeared to him three times. Any idea? (Here is the entry from the Timeline of Church History article):

Cheers, Angellight 888 21:45, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

Proposed Category re:Saints

I was over at the OrthodoxEngland website, and I noticed the very interesting title for the list of saints as “Latin Saints of the Orthodox Patriarchate of Rome”. I was thinking it would be nice to have a category to group all the Western Orthodox Saints. It could be called a variety of things, such as “Western Orthodox Saints”, or “Western Saints of the Orthodox Church”, but I think the way it is called at Orthodox England is far better. I propose we create the category with that name: Category:Latin Saints of the Orthodox Patriarchate of Rome.

I understand that the need to have such a distinction is not as important here on OW, as say it would be on Wikipedia for example, because on Wikipedia all Orthodox Saints have the sole category “Eastern Orthodox Saints” (apart from a few other ethnicity or geography based categories). To put “Eastern Orthodox Saints” today on say, a Welsh saint, while accurate, is also a touch misleading or ambiguous/not smooth. And so, I am wondering, what would be the best title for such a category? I think it deserves a category of its own. -— Cheers, Angellight 888 21:45, July 17, 2010 (UTC)


anyone know anything about the quote on the article titled [Psalter], from "one modern commentator," about the Psalter is the golden thread running through the fabric of Orthodox worship? I'd like to know who said that...I might be able to use it in an essay I'm writing about a completely different topic :) Thanks, Manoli

Thumbnails Error

I have tried to include images on articles a few times today, and i reciece the follwong error, whether I use the "thumb" syntax or a size syntax (such as 300px)..same error:

Error creating thumbnail:
Warning: passthru() has been disabled for security reasons in
/home/owiki/public_html/shared/includes/GlobalFunctions.php on line 1839

Any ideas? Thanks, Angellight 888 21:03, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Images feature is not functional. Several uploads are not appearing. Angellight 888 00:34, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

World map of Orthodox jurisdictions

I think it would be great to have a world map that shows the boundaries between the canonical territories of the autocephalous and autonomous Churches. Currently these are only described in words in their respective articles, and it's difficult (at least for me) to picture it all in my head. -- Veshy 04:40, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

Well, I just made one myself, but I'm not sure all of the canonical borders are correct. Please review it and leave comments: http://commons.orthodoxwiki.org/Image:World_canonical_territories.png -- Veshy 04:24, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

I think that such a map would be a very useful resource. Thank you for taking up this task! Here are a few general comments:

  • Constantinople claims all lands outside what it considers "established boundaries" of other local Churches. That means Constantinople claims Western and Central Europe, the Far East, the Americas, the Indian subcontinent, South-East Asia, Australia and Oceania as its own. That means all the "grey space" as well as some areas claimed by Russia and OCA.
  • The above Constantinopolitan claim, of course, is not accepted by such Churches as Antioch, Russia, Georgia, Rumania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Poland, OCA, and perhaps others, which have their own parishes and monasteries in the "diaspora". So, most of the "grey space" would actually be rainbow-colored.
  • There are overlapping jurisdictions in Hungary - in addition to Serbian, there are Russian, Rumanian and Constantinopolitan churches.
  • I am not sure Antioch claims anything to the East of Iraq. On the other hand it does claim a bit of southern Turkey.
  • Georgian Church, in addition to Georgia proper, claims only small enclaves in northern parts of Turkey, Armenia and Azerbaijan (here's their ecclesiastical map - http://www.orthodoxy.ge/tsnobarebi/eparkiebis_ruka.jpg)
  • Maybe Eastern Europe deserves a close-up - it's hard to distinguish boundaries over there. INK 02:09, January 14, 2011 (UTC)

Mixing Wine and Water - Leavened Bread?

Not sure this is the right place for this, so I hope I don't upset anyone. I was hoping to find the answer to this here.

I've been searching for the original church and believe the Orthodox church is as close as one will get. However, there are a number of things I don't understand and do not seem to mesh with Scripture.

Why, in the liturgy, do Priests put water into the wine, the blood of Christ? This seems sacrilegious to me.

Why, in the liturgy, is leavened bread used by the Orthodox? The last supper was a passover meal and would have used unleavened bread. Leaven signifies sin and was not allowed in Jewish homes during Passover.

I have queried other sites on this and gotten some answers, but not the same answers and none with authoritative sources. Does an authoritative answer exist?

Al 00:26, January 15, 2011 (UTC) alf.

"Why, in the liturgy, do Priests put water into the wine, the blood of Christ?"

== One possible explanation for this could be found here: John 19:34 (RSV) one of the soldiers pierced His side and out poured blood and water.--Zosimas 13:09, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

"Why, in the liturgy, is leavened bread used by the Orthodox?"

Perhaps this will help? Leavened versus Unleavened Bread --Zosimas 13:25, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I'm Italian

I hope Orthodox wiki in Italian, i'll wrinting about Ortodossia ! Thanks

Orthodox Incense and Byzantine Perfumery, Arts, etc.

Greetings in Christ,

A friend referred me here, and suggested that I sign up and offer assistance with articles on Orthodox incense, perfumes, etc. I am a master perfumer that makes true Byzantine perfumes, as well as Orthodox Christian incense of varying types, including Athonite style.

I'm not at all certain I am capable of learning this site, but I would be happy to help answer questions on these subjects, and of course, share in the fellowship of our Lord. It is my understanding that this site was founded by a Priest, and to him I say, "Hello! Father bless!"

To all others I say, "Hello! Greetings in our Lord!"

I look forward to sharing information with you if anyone is interested in these subjects and to learning more about your site. Please forgive me in advance, if I bumble and make silly errors. Technology is not my forte and I am more comfortable among my bunsen burners and glass beakers, mixing essential oils. We all must bloom where we are planted, true, but perhaps with the help of others, we can grow beyond our "hedgerows".

Very kind regards, in Christ our Lord, Columbina aka "blackincense"

TheOldFellow the new boy.

I should introduce myself as a new contributor. My main aim is to add information about Orthodoxy in the UK - which is not nearly as well served as North America. I will attempt to comply with the Style Manual, but if I don't please be merciful :)

How do we feel about adding Parish information? I'm only really thinking of lists with URLs and maybe links to patron saints.

Love, In Christ, Richard.

Welcome Richard! Glad to have you on board.
About Parish directory info, we used to have a lot of that on the site. The decision was made to leave this task to other sites, as maintenance was a challenge and this information doesn't quite fit the "encyclopedia" mission. An overview article on Orthodoxy in the UK, with a link to a local directory could be appropriate though. — FrJohn (talk) 00:37, February 27, 2011 (UTC)

Early Church Saints

I think we should add a category to organize all the Saints and Martyrs of the Early Church, up to the legalization of the faith with the Edict of Milan in 313 AD. This category might be called "Early Church Saints" or "Saints and Martyrs of the Early Church". Wikipedia uses "Ancient Christian Saints". Any other ideas?

After 313 AD, (or perhaps after 325 AD - Council of Nicaea), Western Saints can generally be cataloged in the existing catgeory: "Category:Pre-Schism Western Saints". Notes can be added to both categories stating the details.

I think it would be nice to make this distinction, as the period of the Early Church when the Christian faith was illegal should stand on its own as a separate group.
Cheers,Angellight 888 14:07, February 27, 2011 (UTC)

Ante-Nicene is a designation that has a strong tradition and a clear demarcation point. Early Church is a term often used to refer to the period well after the Council of Nicea. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 00:44, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

Old calendar version of Trisagion + The Lord's Prayer Stnectariosparishiner 05:16, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

I believe it would be a good contribution of someone to include the old calendar version (translation) of the Trisagion and wherever the Lord's Prayer is quoted. Forgive me for editing those places earlier without notice


Stnectariosparishiner 05:16, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

There's really no such thing as an OC translation of these prayers. Multiple translations are used by various jurisdictions, irrespective of calendar. In their original languages, these prayers don't have OC and NC versions, so to describe a particular translation as being "Old Calendar" is irrelevant. What calendar one uses or whether one is in communion with the mainstream Church has no particular bearing on how one translates. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 17:22, March 17, 2011 (UTC)