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== '''PLEASE DO NOT ERASE! PLEASE RESPOND TO WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN!''' ==My Dear Brother
First I want to warn you not to believe everything you hear. I would like to know what your sources are and if you claim hope once again that all of what you are saying is included in the writings of His Holiness, then I want you to send understand me the text of what you are speaking about. It is very easy for someone just to claim they heard this from someone they think is a credible source, but to actually check to see whether all of what they told you is true, is a very hard task. If you are able to find all of the sources, then you could justify Please keep me in your claims. Until then, these are 100% unjustified and I'm telling you they are not true. If you are claiming that His Holiness Pope Shenouda III wrote against His Holiness Pope Kyrillos VI in the Keraza magazine, then I would like to know exactly which issue number it is and from what year and I will find it or if you have it then please scan and send me the article where you claim he speaks against him. I am unable to believe what you are saying is true. I'm sure you are very aware there is also a controversy about the concept of Theosis these days. '''There are many who think that either they will become God or will become one with God exactly as our Lord Jesus Christ but this is not true and this is the only part of the concept of Theosis that His Holiness disagrees with and I'm sure the Eastern Orthodox Church disagrees with those statements as wellprayers.'''
Here is the Coptic Orthodox understanding of Theosis:Above comments by [[User:Orthodoxy4everr]]
'''''"Theosis or Deification means "union with God" taken from the Greek Theos - God, and the word Enosis - union. Our Lord Jesus Christ asked God the Father "They also may be one in us" (Jn 17:21). He also gave us the command of Theosis "Therefore I am afraid what you shall be perfect, just as your Father in Heaven is perfect" (Mt 5:48), our goal in life is to accomplish perfect union with God through the grace of the Holy Spirit. Man was created in the image and likeness of God, and then sin created a gap between God and mankind, causing damage to our souls. All Christians through baptism receive the seed of Theosis, which are saying is not only true! Please listen to the forgiveness of sins, reconciliation and justification, but also a restoration of God's image. The sinful inclination of our human nature should not govern our behavior anymore; instead we should strive to live a holy life looking towards Jesus Christ the author of our faith, and growing in His knowledge and sonship. The restoration and sanctification of Theosis brings us back into relationship with the Creatorhttp://zeitun-eg. St. Athanasius' presentation of Theosis was summarized as "the reintegration of the divine image of man's creation through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit conforming the redeemed into the likeness of the Lord Jesus Christ, and also of the believer's transition from mortality to immortality so that he is enabled to participate in the eternal bliss and glory of the kingdom of Godorg/members_contrib/anbabishoy06622."mp3
'''''Our full union with God is a union with the "energies" of God. These energies, while an extension of God, are not to be confused with the "essence" or "substance" of God, which is unknown by humans and is shared only by the Holy Trinity. Our union with God will not make us gods but will make us partners : Yours in the Divine nature in works not in essence. We will not acquire the unique characteristics of God such as being the CreatorChrist, the Omnipotent--[[User:Arbible|Arbible]] 00:37, the OmnipresentApril 27, but it will make us partners with Him in building the Kingdom by our own salvation and by winning the souls of others to the Lord Jesus Christ."''2007 (PDT)
In the page about His Holiness Pope Shenouda III it says, "Books like Achieving Your Potential in Christ: Theosis - Plain Talks on a Major Doctrine of Orthodoxy by the Very Rev. Fr. Anthony M. Coniaris (Edited by D. A. Riewe) '''''would thus be against Pope Shenouda's teachingsTry learning Arabic first, then listen to the recording.It has nothing to do with baptism!'''''" - How can you ever make such a statement without first knowing and understand what His Holiness has actually said about the concept of Theosis? -[[User:Arbible|Arbible]] 02:43, May 4, 2007 (PDT)
In == Please forgive me for the beginning of the section it says, "Pope Shenouda III '''is said rude tone I was speaking to be''' totally denying the Orthodox concept and doctrine of theosis (even the word/term)"you in. This is a statement that cannot be backed in any way and is just someone stating what they THINK they heard about His Holiness and it doesn't deserve to be on a page about him as though it was factual information! ==
In that section it also says "Pope Shenouda's longstanding theological disputes with Habib BebawiDear Arbible, PhD (Cambridge), '''''a renowned Coptic theologian''''' specialising in patristic studies and the late Father Matta El-Meskeen are well known, and many observers have attributed them to personal and ecclesiastico-political motives, rather than to any genuine doctrinal flaws or deviations from Orthodoxy in the writings of Bebawi and Matta." - Dr. Bebawi has been excommunicated from the Coptic Orthodox Church and he is now a member of the Anglican Church and therefore, anything he says or believes does not have anything to do with the Coptic Orthodox Church. Dr. Bebawi also joined the Russian Orthodox Church first before leaving them to join the Anglican Church because they also did not agree with ANY of this teachings, meaning he is clearly NOT Orthodox! If you were to realize that all those against His Holiness are not Orthodox maybe you'd take back your statements. Father Matta had many thoughts that are not Orthodox and His Holiness wrote many books to answer all of the wrong teachings of Father Matta and therefore no one can ever claim that it is just personal problems! It is all VERY well documented in the writings of His Holiness and those of Father Matta. I'm trying to show you here that your statements have no back bone and they are all incorrect and I would like to have them removed immediately!
== His Eminence Metropolitan BishoyOnce again, I ask for your forgiveness for speaking in a manner that was rude... ==
My Dear BrotherPlease keep me in your prayers.
I realized that you also protected his page when all you are doing is hurting him, not protecting him. Everything he said was taken out of context. Please realize that it is the enemies of the Church who do such things in order to create problems. Please allow me to edit this page as well. I can't stand to see this lies written about His Holiness and Metropolitan Bishoy. They are 2 of the greatest Theologians of our time and great defenders of Orthodoxy and they are being persected a lot as Saint Athanasius the Great was.: Above comments by [[User:Orthodoxy4everr]]
I hope once again that you understand me. Please keep me in your prayers.: Dear Orthodoxy4everr,
== '''PLEASE DO NOT ERASE! PLEASE RESPOND TO WHAT I HAVE SAID!''' ==am not sure , but i beilive that Saint Marina was from modern-day Albania.
What exactly is it about the recording that bothers --[[User:Ddpbf|Ddpbf]] 10:41, June 26, 2007 (PDT). God bless you? The fact that His Eminence quotes our Lord Jesus Christ when he says those who are not Baptized cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven?''' Do you dare to disagree with the words of Our Lord Jesus Christ?!?!''' .
Please explain exactly what it is that you have a problem with because I do not understand. Do you really think that Dr. Bebawi is a credible source for ANY information? Especially after he has been excommunicated from the Coptic Orthodox Church because of heretical teachings. At first he turned to the Russian Orthodox Church but he left them for the Anglican Church many years ago and I have the official document to prove it! Maybe you should try reading what His Eminence Metropolitan Bishoy has to say about Dr. Bebawi rather than read what Dr. Bebawi has to say about our Church! You should read these articles before making anymore false accusations: [[http://www.metroplit-bishoy.org/english/Confronting%20heresies.html]]== Active appeal ==
I hope There's currently an active appeal over at [[OrthodoxWiki talk:Administrators]]. If as an admin, you will correct all the wrong information you have stated herewould like to participate, please feel free to do so. You are speaking against His Holiness the Pope and a Metropolitan without knowing the TRUTH Thanks! Please do some research —[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, read both sides of the issue before you start speaking against Holy men of God! I hope you understand why this situation is really troubling meGaramond, it is because everything you are saying is a lie and you clearly have not looked at both sides of this issue and because of everything you have saidGeorgia, you are leading others to believe it is trueTimes New Roman">Fr. You have become a stumbling block to people seeking the truthAndrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]] <font face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">('''[[User:ASDamick/Wiki-philosophy|THINK! I hope you will make the proper corrections soon!{{unsigned|Orthodoxy4everr}}]]''')</font></small> 15:59, August 19, 2008 (UTC)
: There are even more points, including Pope Shenouda's 'denial that the Holy Spirit can dwell in the faithful', and Pope Shenouda's famous 'three bodies of Christ' theory adapted from Protestant writings (in their interpretation of what we receive in the Eucharist). All these issues are fully documented and referenced from Pope Shenouda's published writings/books and audio/video lectures. I invite you to read more about the Orthodox doctrine of theosis, the Barlaamite Controversy (14th century), as well as Pope Shenouda's writings against Pope Kyrillos VI in El-Keraza magazine during the sixties of the past century. --[[User:Arbible|Arbible]] 00:59, April 27, 2007 (PDT)
== His Eminence Metropolitan Bishoy... ==
I realized that you also protected his page when all you are doing is hurting him, not protecting him. Everything he said was taken out of context. Please realize that it is the enemies of the Church who do such things in order to create problems. Please allow me to edit this page as well. I can't stand to see this lies written about His Holiness and Metropolitan Bishoy. They are 2 of the greatest Theologians of our time and great defenders of Orthodoxy and they are being persected a lot as Saint Athanasius the Great was.
I hope am sorry for how I was speaking to hear back from you soon with the sources and proof for what it is , please forgive me. I am very upset about this situation because you are claiming and calling His Holiness Pope Shenouda a heretic. Ican'd also like to know how t just sit quiet while you write all these things which are able lies. I have written a lot in response to protect the document and prevent others from correcting the information because what you are not justified in your claims and thereforeclaim, but rather than respond, you cannot forbid anyone else from making a correction to what you are saying. simply deleted it and I don't understand why? Please respond and I hope to hear from you understand me because this is a serious matter that I would like resolovedsoon. {{unsigned|Orthodoxy4everr}}
: Above comments by [[User:Orthodoxy4everr]]Thanks for your messages. The published writings and recordings of both HH Pope Shenouda and HE Anba Bishoy speak very clearly for themselves, but they are in '''Arabic''' (please see my short comment in bold above). The persecution of the blessed departed Fr Matta El-Meskeen and his monks (which continues to this very day) is also very well known, and their writings also speak for themselves. We are not here to hide selected parts of, doctor, or embellish the truth. This is not a public relations department; this is a (scholarly) encyclopedic work that seeks to be objective and factual.
: I am afraid what you The Pope and the clergy have the highest respect, but these are saying is events and facts that occurred whether some people like it or not true! Please listen to http://zeitun-eg.org/members_contrib/anbabishoy06622.mp3
: Yours in Christ, --[[User:Arbible|Arbible]] 0004:3702, April 27May 4, 2007 (PDT)
== About saint Marina ==
:This is not my article, but the source quoted is the Coptic Synaxarium so I added an {{ Oriental }} tag + moved St. Marina > Marina (according to OW naming conventions). Please feel free to edit as necessary. If you are going to use other non-Oriental sources, perhaps we should also remove the {{ Oriental tag}}. In Christ, --[[User:Arbible|Arbible]] 10:22, June 26, 2007 (PDT)
: I must check, ther is Saint Marina from Albania and her feast day is [[July 17]]. You could see in Prologue from Ohrid.
