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→Et tu Papadeas?
::I meant it to be humorous, not sarcastic. It just means "You too Papadeas?" I wasn't able to check this when noting the major translations that I mentioned previously, and was actually expecting that this text would be the exception, and use Orthros, since it is after all a Greek/English text. I was surprised that it too followed the pattern of all the other standard texts in English, and I thought it was worth noting. "Matins" is a pre-schism Orthodox term, and this is the term used in English for this service. I said I could live with Orthros, and I can and will... I didn't say I would prefer to live with it. I don't know what the decision making process is with those in charge of the web site. I just thought that this was another bit of information worth considering. I'll let it drop now.[[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 19:07, April 22, 2007 (PDT)
:Hey Guys. Just a note of pause to say that, as you know, it's important to be cautious in internet correspondence, since writing online lacks most of the non-verbal clues we rely on in interpersonal communication. This goes both ways -- e.g. in making statements which can be construed as sarcastic, and in assuming a particular meaning when there are other possibilities.
:Second, this is a difficult one. There seems to be a substantial difference for "feel" here - not just between Frs. John and Andrew, but between Pistevo, Me, and Fr. John on the one hand and Fr. Andrew on the other. I believe these differences aren't just personal opinion but are rooted in the sensibilities of different Orthodox communities in America. It's hard to know the best way to arbitrate between these.
:In terms of the Style manual, I see things here the same way Pistevo does. Yes, we prefer Greek to Slavonic usage, but it does seem that Matins is the commonly accepted English term. In fact, in my mind - rightly or wrongly - "Orthros" is a "marked" subterm for Matins, denoting particularly Greek usage. (I don't think I've ever heard it referred to an Orthros in the OCA, except when a Greek happened to be chanting.) :The Google stats are interesting here, too - thanks for the research. Perhaps we need to institute some kind of more formal voting/arbitration policy, but for now, I'm going to just make the decision (as the [[w:BDFL|bdfl]]) to change the title to Matins. I hope this doesn't trouble anyone too much! — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit§ion=new talk])
