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→Deleting and editing By PISTEVO- ORTHODOXY IN AUSTRALIA & AUSTRALASIA: new section
''"'''The allegation of personal spite, which Joseph levels, is rich coming from a man who ran a blog dedicated to attacking me by name.''' People alerted me Joseph addresses me "personally" on his blog's "why" page (mission statement), calls me a "cultist," and warns me to "prepare well. Because we have unfinished business." (If these quotations, which I'm told are located [http://westernritefraud.wordpress.com/about here], are inaccurate, please so state; I will ''gladly'' withdraw them.) Fr. Andrew, I agree that what people do elsewhere is irrelevant, unless they try to import it here. Yet in the last 24 hours we have seen the discussion being diverted away from the objective facts of the article at hand to an attack upon my character and imputing an agenda. (A [[User_talk:Chrisg|"warlike and unChristian"]] agenda, no less!) And a call for my censorship from a man who runs a blog dedicated to, finishing business, with me."''
'''This is mainly non-sequitur'''. We could probably go on all day about our last year or so, but it is largely immaterial. (I shall explain why shortly. ) The origin of my site was a direct response to a letter that was sent from Fr Benjamin attacking the mental stability of myself (and my wife, who had nothing to do with him) as well as a number of broad claims. Over time, and getting to know others in the vicariate I felt that calling the whole vicariate a fraud just because of YOUR predilection towards Anglicanism and Roman Catholicism was in fact NOT as common in the AWRV as I had initially thought. Thus, I had taken down the original attacking blog (located at bloggingthefraud.blogspot.com) and created a friendlier site at (westernorthodoxchristian.blogspot.com). I didn't even realize those sites were still up, and so thank you for noticing. I've deleted them.
I realized that the desire for Western Orthodox ''tradition '' was cross-jurisdictional, as was residual "Popery and Protestantism" (to call to mind Dr Overbeck).
Further, I don't know ChrisG at all.
'':"The other contentious issue is that Joseph is claiming Hieromonk David (Pierce) of Holyrood Monastery celebrates a Milan Synod version of Sarum (but a different version of Sarum than the OSRM, or St. Petroc Monastery's Sarum -- clear as mud?). His assertion is just that -- an unsourced assertion. But the [http://theyorkforum.yuku.com/sreply/12977/t/Western-Rite-Orthodox-News.html ''source''] I provided, which is still linked in the article, quotes Fr. David writing to the contrary, he celebrates the Mt. Royal usage DL and the "Holyrood/St. Petroc" recension of Sarum. If Joseph has any evidence to the contrary, this would be the place to offer it, and the article would reflect that; but he has dismissed all evidence as [[Talk:Western_Rite#Images_under_.22Congregations.22_2|"anecdotal."]] He then suggested we remove reference to Fr. David/Holyrood Monastery altogether. Here is logic I cannot endorse: removing reference to a functioning WR monastery (that houses two hieromonks) but retaining reference to the private prayers of a Byzantine priest, in the name of improving the section on WR "Congregations."''
'''It's not unclear at all.''' Fr Cuthbert-cum-David was and is using the texts of the Medieval Monastic Psalter. Strangely, he has suddenly become interested publicly in the Overbeck recension... so the text of his ordinary may change. Perhaps he lacks one; as the MMP contains much of the Ordinary to begin with. I didn't suggest removing Holyrood at all, but references as to a use of which we are yet uncertain (and based on dialogue on the [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Occidentalis/message/14419|Occidentalist Occidentalis list], it may be "under development"). And Holyrood doesn't "house two hieromonks" I am aware of. You may now claim Fr Augustine (Whitfield) as ROCOR, but he lives in an aged home, not with Fr Cuthbert (or David).
Note-- Don't try to cover up an agenda by claiming I have one.
P.S. I've already commented on you and Ari Adams working with each other to push a common agenda on this Wiki. What do the other posters have in common with each other, and why are you fighting them too? FrLev, don't know him. But a war you had. Same with ChrisG. Am I responsible for those too? --[[User:JosephSuaiden|JosephSuaiden]] 00:12, February 18, 2009 (UTC)
Further, Fr Benjamin here makes a totally false claims:
'':The fact that Holyrood Monastery and St. Petroc's Monastery are small monasteries is immaterial; they are exclusively WR monasteries that celebrate a full cycle of Western Rite services, including WR hours and Mass/Liturgy. At St. Petroc, Sunday services are held at an associated church, not a home chapel. St. Petroc has a number of associated chapels, at least one sister mission (run by Fr. Barry Jeffries), and Fr. Michael celebrates WR liturgy on at least two continents each year. The "Old Sarum Rite Missal" is not being celebrated anywhere within Orthodoxy to my knowledge, not even the Eastern or Western Archdioceses of the Milan Synod. Met. HILARION reportedly allowed its author to pray his translation of Sarum (presumably the hours?) for his private, home prayers, not in public (where he serves a Byzantine church). I'm not sure that is relevant to Western Rite "Congregations"; frankly, bishops allow priests to pray all sorts of things privately. I am even less certain two large pictures (one mislabeled) of that missal, not being celebrated anywhere, are a more appropriate graphic for an article about the WR than a picture of Fr. Alexander Turner (which [http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Western_Rite&curid=838&diff=80850&oldid=80847 chrisg deleted in favor of the OSRM]). What's being "sourced" and "de-sourced" there?''
1. Holyrood is not a monastery proper: it's a hermitage. Further, it is not listed on the ROCOR official directory. http://directory.stinnocentpress.com/wujood.cgi
2. The fact that Fr Michael travels about and liturgizes means nothing.
3. According to Fr Aidan's [http://sarisburium.blogspot.com/2008/10/good-news-for-sarum-use-of-roman-rite.html press release] (which I assume was blessed by his Metropolitan) I assume he has the same liturgical rights as Fr Michael. Further, it states very clearly what Fr Aidan can do.
4. Fr Michael does in fact utilize a house chapel. It's [http://www.allmercifulsavior.com/images/aa-StPetrocChapel.jpg right here.] It appears to be a walk-in closet.
5. You seem to misunderstand the value of the OSRM to the wiki. It has historical value as a translation of a text most closely that of a pre-schism Western usage in English. It's not because of its use. It's because of its uniqueness in modern Orthodox history; and this is why it repeatedly sells for five times over its price on ebay, even though many texts in [http://www.allmercifulsavior.com/Liturgy/Liturgics.html Fr Aidan's work are available online free].
6. Finally, I have nothing against having a picture of Fr Alexander Turner. I think it should replace the fon-du-lac circus. --[[User:JosephSuaiden|JosephSuaiden]] 01:15, February 18, 2009 (UTC)
:First, Joseph, I can't see a single change to the article advocated in this enormous response. Probably related to (or caused by):
:Second, and this goes for both Willibrord and Joseph, this is for talking to ADMINISTRATORS, not each other. Talking to each other is what User_talk: pages are for - if you really need an (unauthorised) outlet, go for those pages.
Third (both again), do not ascribe motive or personally attack others. Again, User_talk: pages, blogs or gossip columns, '''not''' OW.
Fourth, Joseph, the only exception that I can see to the first point is possibly the OSRM, which is for a new article.
Fifth (both), since you BOTH appealed for arbitration, a ruling has been given. If you don't like it, appeal. — by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="green">Pιs</font><font color="gold">τévο</font>]] <sup>''[[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|<font color="red">complaints</font>]]''</sup> at 02:42, February 18, 2009 (UTC)
:: '''Note:''' Both of the interlocutor complainants have now been issued warnings (2nd in both cases). I do hope that this matter can be settled down before someone gets banned. —[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]] <font face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">('''[[User:ASDamick/Wiki-philosophy|THINK!]]''')</font></small> 12:34, February 18, 2009 (UTC)
== Template:Saints20 needs cleanup ==
[[Template:Saints20]] is in dire need of cleanup. There's a lot of information there, and it's not laid out well. The headings are inconsistent, but I can go ahead and fix that now. Some of the information ''looks'' incorrect (See the "Nineties" section, first listing), but I'm only a recent convert, and not very knowledgeable about such things... [[User:Paharwell|Phil Harwell (paharwell)]] 07:58, December 11, 2012 (HST)
: I have cleaned up the headings, having to move around some content as a result. [[User:Paharwell|Phil Harwell (paharwell)]] 08:58, December 11, 2012 (HST)
== Deleting and editing By PISTEVO- ORTHODOXY IN AUSTRALIA & AUSTRALASIA ==
An official warning by Pistevo for stating facts is not warranted. I am an orthodox Priest and it seems that PISTEVO has personal agendas in promoting 'official churches' and disregarding other orthodox churches who follow the Julian Calender and have an official synod recognised by the government. As you will see in the following link http://orthodoxwiki.org/Orthodoxy_in_Australasia one can see clearly who is official or not. From the moment that the Holy Orthodox Metropolis of Australia & Oceania is under the title of irregular status- and its description states they are under the omorphorion of Arb Serafeim- why has Pistevo purposley taken away the (OC) AND PUT SERAPHEIMITE?? tHIS HOLY SYNOD IN gREECE FOLLOWS THE old calender. From the moment that the descrption says they are under Serapheim- the OC should not be taken away. Why not put CYPRIANISM next to the Synod in Resistance, which you find straight after. All my contribution have constantly been attacked by PISTEVO as he is only wanting to promote the official Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia. These pages are not here to promote but are they not here to state facts as an encyclopedia?? Before deleting the pages Greek Orthodox Churches in NSW http://orthodoxwiki.org/Greek_Orthodox_Churches_in_New_South_Wales, parishes of the Metropolis were also listed with clear clarification that they were not part of the Archdiocese of Australia but under the omorforion of the OC church of Greece (Serapheim). Why once again did Pistevo immediatley TOTALLY DELETE IT? Again this is supposed to be an enyclopedia-and these churches (regardless if they are in communion with 'official churches or not ARE STILL ORTHODOX CHURCHES IN THAT AREA. I cannot see what the problem was if they stated thaey are part of an old calender synod independent from the official church. It seems there are clearly other motives behind the constant harrasment by Pistevo, and this is unjust and not right.
