Brevity and "Name" sections
Hello! Thanks for all the contributions you've recently been making. I have a concern about the "Name" sections you've been adding to various saints' articles -- they're often being put right at the beginning, before the "Life" sections, which indicates that the meaning of the saint's name is of more encyclopedic importance than his life. Additionally, they're often moderately extensive sections, a paragraph or more.
I think if you'll take a look at encyclopedias such as the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church or the Blackwell Dictionary of Eastern Christianity, or any other encyclopedia, you'll find that etymology usually only takes up perhaps a few words in parentheses after the initial name of the entry, e.g., Stephen the Protomartyr (Gk. stephanos, "crown").
I'd strongly recommend that you take a look at these stylistically standard sources when editing articles to get a sense of the standards that we've been using on OrthodoxWiki for the past few years. Thanks! —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 10:40, January 17, 2008 (PST)
- Hello, thanks for the entry on the Taxiarchis icon; I read a longer account of this once but cannot locate it at present; regarding the title of the Mantamados article, as far as I am aware the name of the icon is primarily “Taxiarchis” (Archangel) Michael" but the main entry here is listed as that of the village; and you have included two titles for this entry; if the name of the village is commonly associated with the icon, then I suggest perhaps the title be moved to "Archangel Michael of Mantamados (Taxiarchis)". Just a suggestion for clarity. This would put the title more in line with other entries for key icons, such as those of the Theotokos, and also include the other common reference to this icon, the Taxiarchis. Cheers. —Chris talk 9:10, January 20, 2008 (EST)
- Hi Chris, yes the area is Mantammados but most Greek people actually name the icon as "Mantammados" as a stand alone nickname or pet reference ... We do not usually refer to the entire phrase Archangel Michael Taxiarchis of Mantammados ... its a 'nickname'. Just like the "Panormitis" icon (my article tomorrow) ... we dont call the icon ..the Taxiarchis of Symi the Panormitis, he is more commonly referred to as 'Panormitis' and known this way. Since I am not here on Orthodwiki long enough, do you still suggest that the article be moved anyway? Also, I dont know how to move the article ... I am happy either way, as long as the information is available for people to learn ... -- Vasiliki 18:35, January 20, 2008 (PST)
- Orthodox Research Institute listing of hierarchs (in three parts, accessible by the letters at the top)
You can include edit summaries in the space directly above the "Save page" button at the bottom of an article you're editing. It's labeled "Summary:" followed by a horizontal box. For more information, see Help:Editing.
Bishops' article names
Style Manual: OrthodoxWiki:Style Manual (People).
I'm not sure whether you're aware that there's a Template:Inprogress.
You could put that on the articles you are actively developing, which would (1) let others know that you're working on it, and (2) when you click the "What links here" link on the lower left menu, you can more easily keep track of articles you are working on. For more information on how it should be used, check out the talk page.
Oh, and another thing: I find it helpful to separate "Sources" from which one gets paraphrased information, "References" or "Notes" which cite specific quotations within an article, and "External links" which allow readers to get even more information which may not be included. The term "External sources" confuses me a little, since all sources have to be external.
- The key word here is, of course, actively. Generally, you should only use Template:Inprogress on no more than one or two articles at a time that you're in the process of changing significantly. The idea of the template is to mark an article you're working on right now so that major edit conflicts don't occur when multiple editors try to work on an article simultaneously.
Please make sure you're familiar with the OrthodoxWiki:Style Manual (People). I find it helpful to review it every so often, and find myself going to the Saint commemorations page quite a bit. Also, when you are using an article as a source, please be clear about what you are quoting and what you are paraphrasing. Direct quotations need to be clearly marked with quotation marks; when whole paragraphs are quoted, they should be indented. In terms of getting information about a saint, what I usually do is check my three main sources of saints' lives (OCA, GOARCH, and the Prologue of Ohrid, all linked from my page), and, since so many saints are already included in our calendar pages, I often find a commemoration by searching OrthodoxWiki itself (often using google, adding "site:orthodoxwiki.org"); although the OCA pages are also good at that. I hope these hints help you as you continue to add so much to OrthodoxWiki. —magda (talk) 08:22, March 20, 2008 (PDT)
I just go to Google and search for each, and look at the words on the top right:
- Results 1 - 10 of about [such-a-number] for [this search].
Then I do searches for whatever I want to compare, and look at the "such-a-number"s to see which is more prevalent. That's not to say that it's "correct," or more prevalent everywhere, just a general guide. If one search gives you a million, and another gives you ten, then you get a good idea of which one is more common. If one search gives you 1,940 and another gives you 1,950, it's more difficult. Best wishes! —magda (talk) 04:55, April 17, 2008 (UTC)
- Ask Fr John to delete one of the two templates - Template:VasilikiCopy or Template:Ixthis888Copy - and add the one you keep to this page: OrthodoxWiki:Templates#Personal. The template must work fine on the images, because I already use it for... :-) --Inistea 00:26, April 18, 2008 (UTC)
Another day, another vandal. :) It used to be much worse, but FrJohn installed some automatic software which helps filter out most vandals. We've had dozens over the years. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 13:43, April 30, 2008 (UTC)
...for your insight. You are right - Stubborn is my middle name. Unfortunately, we have different opinion on the whole case about m. John. I will summarize it in short:
- I do not see the difference in importance between articles. To me, all of them have same importance.
- Judgment of God on the writings of the theologians is seen through Holy Spirit that works in The Church. Thus, The Church lead by the Holy Spirit appears as judge of the writings created either within The Church or outside of it. Having said that, I do not see myself as that "judge". My intent is to have valid opinions of the real judge (The Church) incorporated into the article.
- People that were involved in the dispute do not represent "general consensus". Fact that I can write you this note after being blocked yesterday by one of the sysops serve you as proof.
- I do not see OrthodoxWiki as "service provided to me" that I am "not paying for" and consequently "have no right to diminate it". I see OrthodoxWiki as a customer of my service and service of other contributors who keep improving it. Problem is when a group of contributors start thinking that they can dominate the customer (OrthodoxWiki) rejecting all other valid and existing Orthodox opinions on a certain subject. Problem is even bigger if sysops are in that group that tries to dominate, and misuse their administrator powers to support their cause.
Cebactokpatop 15:24, May 1, 2008 (UTC)
Problem with the "Edit" tab
Vasiliki, Christos anesti!
I can't seem to reproduce the problem you're describing—everything is working fine for me, both with Firefox and with Internet Explorer. The only thing I can guess is that perhaps you're hitting the wrong button on your mouse...? I honestly have no way to analyze what's happening. If there is some kind of problem with your account, then FrJohn is the only one who can fix it. My sysop powers are limited to editing, not to account or site management. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 13:47, May 3, 2008 (UTC)
A few points in response to your comment:
- OrthodoxWiki policies are not in any sense "mine." I did happen to write the original version of many of them, but I don't have the authority to rule them as the consensus of the administration.
- I added Template:Policy to the OrthodoxWiki FAQ, because it should have been there a long time ago. I often will take a look at policy pages in the midst of discussions which involve them, mainly to make sure that I understand and follow them myself! They sometimes do need a bit of correction. This has nothing to do with you, except in an indirect manner. I have never edited policy to "muscle" you or anyone else, though sometimes the administration has updated policies to reflect a problem that has occurred recently. I don't think any of them involved you.
- What you most often see me updating after discussions with you (at least lately) has been my personal opinions about various matters on the wiki. They have no official status and are only my personal opinions. People are free to ignore them or follow them at will. No one is bound by anything I write there.
- I agree with you that OrthodoxWiki should represent the official positions of ecclesiastical authorities where relevant. However, representation of them is never going to be exclusive or normative. They are simply going to be reported, like everything else. OrthodoxWiki by its very nature cannot ever be an official voice for any ecclesiastical authority. What happens when they argue amongst themselves (which they often do)? What happens when one of them is simply wrong (e.g., heretical)? Anyway, most of these bodies have their own websites to announce their own positions on various things. We're not going to do it for them.
- There is no attempt on the part of the administration or the OrthodoxWiki community in general to produce a bias in favor of Westerners or Englishmen. There is a bias (if one can call it that!) toward the English language! That's because this is the English-language OrthodoxWiki. There are nine other language editions of OrthodoxWiki (including Greek) which also are "biased" in favor of their own languages. English is what we use here, because this encyclopedia is written in English. It is for readers of English. To attempt to make some other language dominate here would not only be profoundly useless, but outright silly. It would be a contradiction in terms.
- Please forgive me, but I think a lot of your frustrations with the wiki come from a misunderstanding of the nature and process of producing an encyclopedia. This is not just a group-edited website. It is an encyclopedia, which involves lengthy discussions over what you may consider minutiae, such as terminology. It involves a genuine commitment to neutrality within certain clear limits.
- I honestly am not sure what it is you expect from me and the rest of the OrthodoxWiki community. Your comments often make no sense to me at all. This is not to be insulting to you, but I really just don't understand how you can want to edit on OrthodoxWiki and yet remain so very frustrated by its most basic norms and assumptions. You are of course free to mount a campaign to change the wiki, but I have to say that I don't think it's likely to be successful.
- I hope that you will continue to contribute on OrthodoxWiki, and I also hope that your frustrations can be resolved.
A few more points:
- I don't think you're stupid, nor have I ever even suggested that you were.
- Your contributions to the wiki have been valuable.
- There's nothing that I write that I wouldn't also be willing to say face to face. I take responsibility for all my words.
- I honestly cannot predict when something I write is going to hurt your feelings. Forgive me. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 12:28, May 21, 2008 (UTC)