User talk:FrJohn

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/archived discussion 1 (through 09-07-2005)
/archived discussion 2 (through 11-20-2005)
/archived discussion 3 (through 05-24-2006)
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/archived discussion 5 (through 05-28-2008)

Complaint regarding actions of User:ASDamick as sysop

I would like to add my voice to those unhappy with User:ASDamick functioning as a sysop. In a recent disagreement with me, he has misused his position as a sysop by attempting to arbitrate (of course, in his favour) the dispute, leaving a very high-handed message on my talk-page. That is to say, he has been using his powers as a sysop to arbitrate a dispute in which he was involved. He clearly has done so as an act of retaliation within the context of our dispute, at a time whilst he had lost his temper and was not in the right frame of mind to perform duties as a sysop.

Here, essentially, the point is that a sysop should not act as judge of his own dispute; he should not misuse his position as a sysop to score points within a dispute he is having; and he should not perform tasks of a sysop when he has lost his temper. And although I have only been editing on OrthodoxWiki for a short time, this is not the first time I have seen him act in this way. Previously when he was in dispute with User:Cebactokpatop (with whom I certainly have no allegiance) he acted in exactly the same manner, leading you to overturn some of his actions. Therefore, I appeal to you to bring him into line.

I am not asking for him to have his status as a sysop revoked, but for you to make clear to him:

• Not to use his status as a sysop within a dispute in which he is engaged;
• Not to use his status as a sysop to arbitrate over disputes in which he is engaged; and
• Not to function as a sysop when he has lost his temper.

Moreover, I have seen User:ASDamick acting in a very high-handed way towards User:lxthis888. This only alienates people, needlessly. Please could you direct him not to talk down to others, clearly to others to whom he feels himself superior. I say this, because I appreciate the interjections I have seen you make in the past, which have been genuinely irenic and for the good of Orthodoxwiki. (I include here the interjection you made calling for me to be more careful with my language, which certainly put me back on track at the time.) Seminarist 22:43, May 23, 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. I'd like to ask you directly - do you think it is appropriate for User:ASDamick to arbitrate over disputes in which he is personally involved? Seminarist 01:41, May 24, 2008 (UTC)

Just as a comment: I'm not "arbitrating over disputes." I'm saying, "Stop acting like a jerk. It's not cool." I don't care who does it to whom, even if the recipient might deserve it. My general approach is simply to comment and talk with people I feel are getting out of line. Only in what I regard as extreme a repeated incivility do I take action by making use of sysop privileges, and that only when the incivility is directed toward more than just me.

Heck, I don't even know what the supposed "dispute" in question is! I thought we were discussing what the best name for the article was and suddenly found myself the target of Yet Another Theory about hidden agendas, etc. I should start notching my user page for every time I get one of those.  :) —Fr. Andrew ^talk contribs (THINK!) 02:56, May 29, 2008 (UTC)

Good points, Fr. Andrew. — FrJohn (talk)

Fr John, just one more question - do you think it appropriate for a sysop and priest to call someone a "jerk", or do you regard such name-calling as incivil? It's a straightforward question, and I'd appreciate a straightforward answer.

Seminarist 11:48, May 29, 2008 (UTC)

Just to be clear: I'm not calling you a jerk. I'm calling your actions jerky (so to speak). It's just shorthand for that generally uncivil tone you've adopted in most of your Talk page contributions. Whether you personally are a jerk or not is entirely unknown to me and irrelevant to OrthodoxWiki.

As always, I am of course willing to submit to whatever judgment Fr. John has regarding all this.

BTW, I restored Fr. John's earlier comment which you edited out when you de-archived this part of his Talk page. In case you weren't aware, it is entirely uncool (i.e., might well be considered "jerky," "uncivil," etc.) to eliminate other's Talk page posts. —Fr. Andrew ^talk contribs (THINK!) 13:02, May 29, 2008 (UTC)

Andrew Damick, the more times you use the word "jerk" in this context, the more silly it makes you look. You made a mistake using the word in the first place, and you have let yourself down by using it. I advise you to stop wriggling around with fatuous qualifications, which are to your further discredit. Seminarist 13:52, May 29, 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure "jerk" is helpful here -- might be better just to point out exactly what you mean by uncivil behavior. There is a learning curve in getting acclimated to the wiki... but I haven't reviewed every comment made... Maybe for now it's best just to break things up and go from there? — FrJohn (talk) 18:01, May 29, 2008 (UTC)

I'm not especially in love with the word jerk or phrase act like a jerk, so it doesn't particularly matter to me.

In terms of specifics of what I mean by "uncivil behavior," I have in mind mainly what has been posted by Seminarist on Talk:Responses to OCA autocephaly, but also on Talk:John (Zizioulas) of Pergamon and my Talk page. Particular instances include referring to Cebactokpatop as a "thug" and possessing a "beligerent theological illiteracy" and to yours truly as possessing "Anti-Greek Madness," a "passionate inability to control himself,", that I am a "boy," and (what really is my personal favorite) that I "lack the linguistic facility to do anything other than descend into petty name-calling." (This is most remarkable to me, I suppose, because I will now forever associate the word thug on the wiki with this editor.) My edits are also apparently drawn from a "deeper internal problem within the Antiochian Archdiocese" (since I don't think that Greek Orthodox is the best term to describe the article on OCA autocephaly).

That this anonymous gent has also decided to refer to me solely by my legal name and that he is lecturing me on the nature of the priesthood might also be construed as "uncivil" by some, but I take all that as par for the course. I can't even remember a time when someone didn't like what I said to them on the wiki and didn't attach with his rejoinders a question of my ordination, canonicity, or ability to execute my office (none of which have anything in particular to do with OrthodoxWiki).

So, them's the partic'lars of what I mean by "uncivil behavior" (or what my mama used to call "acting like a jerk"). —Fr. Andrew ^talk contribs (THINK!) 18:42, May 29, 2008 (UTC)