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| | ''[[/archived discussion 2]] (through 11-20-2005)''<br> | | ''[[/archived discussion 2]] (through 11-20-2005)''<br> |
| | ''[[/archived discussion 3]] (through 05-24-2006)''<br> | | ''[[/archived discussion 3]] (through 05-24-2006)''<br> |
| − | ''[[/archived discussion 4]] (through 04-13-2007)'' | + | ''[[/archived discussion 4]] (through 04-13-2007)''<br> |
| | + | ''[[/archived discussion 5]] (through 05-28-2008)''<br> |
| | + | ''[[/archived discussion 6]] (through 11-25-2008)''<br> |
| | + | ''[[/archived discussion 7]] (through 12-10-2014)'' |
| | + | |
| | </div> | | </div> |
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| | __TOC__ | | __TOC__ |
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| | + | == Changes for the morning of May 11, 2016 == |
| | | | |
| | + | You're probably still working on this, but it looks like the changes I made to pages this morning were lost. A couple of them were minor, but I did a significant wikification/edit of one of the pages [[Bulgarian Eastern Orthodox Diocese of the USA, Canada and Australia]]. Any chance this can be restored? (P.S. Thank you for all your hard work!) [[User:Katjuscha|Katjuscha]] ([[User talk:Katjuscha|talk]]) 18:05, May 11, 2016 (UTC) |
| | | | |
| − | == Orthodoxwiki in Greek ==
| + | : Hi! Thanks for all your work. The wiki was long overdue for an upgrade (c.f. [[OrthodoxWiki:News|news]] )... I tried first running 1.27, and then 1.26. Turns out that hitcounters were [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120216 removed]] from core in MW 1.26, so I've moved the site back to 1.25 and added the [[mw:Extension:HitCounters|HitCounter extension]], so we should be ok moving forward. Let me see what I can do about recovering those edits. (It was a question of reverting before many edits were made or losing the hitcounter history, going back to 2004...) — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit§ion=new talk]) 18:10, May 11, 2016 (UTC) — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit§ion=new talk]) 18:10, May 11, 2016 (UTC) |
| − | | + | : ...and please do let me know if you see any other issues. |
| − | Father bless. I have to apologise for my English and I'll like to ask you what i have to do to create the greek version of the Orthodoxwiki?
| + | ::No problem! :) I'm just kind of noticing the differences. I got a whole bunch of server errors for a couple minutes there, but I'm sure that was from the upgrade (I don't get them anymore either). I am determined to get the counter on the front page to 4900 (and hopefully beyond that!) |
| − | Your blesses and I hope for the success of the progect--[[User:Adolapts|Adolapts]] 04:34, May 8, 2007 (PDT)
| + | :::How does [[Bulgarian_Eastern_Orthodox_Diocese_of_the_USA,_Canada_and_Australia|this]] look? |
| − | | + | ::::Awesome! Thank you! :) [[User:Katjuscha|Katjuscha]] ([[User talk:Katjuscha|talk]]) 20:26, May 11, 2016 (UTC) |
| − | == Romanian documents about ECOF==
| |
| − | | |
| − | Le Patriarcat Roumain
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| − | Le département des relations ecclésiastiques extérieures
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| − | Roumanie
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| − | | |
| − | 423/3.III.1993
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| − | | |
| − | A son Excellence l’évêque Germain de St Denis
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| − | Paris France
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| − | | |
| − | VOTRE EXCELLENCE
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| − | | |
| − | Nous portons à votre connaissance que le saint Synode de l’Eglise Roumaine, dans sa session de travail du 23 janvier 1993, a de nouveau examiné la situation de Votre Excellence et de l’Evêché Orthodoxe Catholique de France,
| |
| − | | |
| − | Comme Vous savez, en 1972, ce diocèse Français, à la demande instante de ses représentants, a été reçu par le patriarcat Roumain sous sa juridiction, afin de lui offrir, par économie ecclésiastique, la communion canonique de même que la possibilité de s’intégrer dans l’ensemble de l’Orthodoxie et de progresser spirituellement.
| |
| − | | |
| − | Peu de temps après avoir été reçu sous notre juridiction et après le sacre épiscopal de Votre excellence, au sein du diocèse et dans Votre activité commencèrent à se manifester. diverses erreurs d’ordre dogmatique, liturgique et de discipline canonique, ainsi que des enseignements et des pratiques contraires à l’orthodoxie universelle, qui ne firent que se multiplier avec le temps continuant à présent encore et étant maintes fois portées à notre connaissance.
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| − | | |
| − | Au long de toutes ces années, le Saint synode, dans l’Esprit de la charité chrétienne et de la tolérance à l’égard de votre excellence et du clergé et des fidèles de l’Evêché Orthodoxe Catholique de France, a fait de considérables efforts pour vous aider à faire remédier les erreurs et à redresser la vie religieuse de ce diocèse, afin que vous puissiez entrer dans la communion de l’orthodoxie universelle.
| |
| − | | |
| − | Par conséquent vous avez été maintes fois invité par le patriarcat Roumain de participer, accompagné par vos collaborateurs, à des discussions dans le cadre de diverses commissions synodales. Chaque fois ont été dressés des protocoles et vous avez signé des engagements et des déclarations (1974,1976, 1978,1979, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990), stipulant que vous allez vous intégrer dans l’orthodoxie universelle. Vous les avez cependant chaque fois ignorés et transgressés sciemment, faisant preuve de désobéissance et d ‘insoumission.
| |
| − | | |
| − | Etant donné que vous n’avez pas respecté les susdits protocoles, les déclarations et vos propres engagements de vous intégrer effectivement et sincèrement avec le diocèse dans l’orthodoxie universelle ;
| |
| − | | |
| − | Compte tenu de l’attitude permanente de désobéissance et de la transgression délibérée de vos propres engagements quant à l’observation et de la doctrine et de la pratique de la vie religieuse orthodoxe,
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| − | | |
| − | Le saint synode de l’Eglise Orthodoxe Roumaine a décidé de retirer définitivement la juridiction canonique de l’Eglise orthodoxe roumaine à Votre excellence et à l’Evêché Orthodoxe catholique de France. Par conséquent, l’exercice de toute fonction épiscopale vous est désormais défendu. Toute correspondance reçue de Votre part à ce sujet ne sera plus prise en considération.
| |
| − | | |
| − | Il a été également décidé que les prêtres ou les communautés du respectif diocèse qui souhaiteraient maintenir les liens canoniques avec L’Orthodoxie universelle puissent s’adresser à cet effet aux juridictions canoniques orthodoxes locales.
| |
| − | | |
| − | Les susdites décisions seront communiquées aussi au conseil diocésain de l’Evêché Orthodoxe Catholique de France, aux prêtres appartenant à ce diocèse, au Comité Inter-épiscopal orthodoxe de Paris et aux Eglises Orthodoxes sœurs.
| |
| − | Avec le regret que le patriarcat roumain ait été contraint de prendre de telles mesures disciplinaires, nous prions le Seigneur de vous accorder son aide et sa lumière et de vous protéger dans la grâce miséricordieuse ;
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| − | | |
| − | Président du saint Synode
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| − | + Théoctiste
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| − | Patriarche de l’Eglise orthodoxe Roumaine
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| − | | |
| − | Secrétaire du Saint synode,
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| − | + Evêque Nifon Ploiesteanul
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| − | Vicaire patriarcal
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| − | | |
| − | PATRIARHIA ROMANA
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| − | CANCELARIA SFANTULUI SINOD
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| − | SECTORUL PENTRU RELATII EXTERNE BISERICESTI
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| − | | |
| − | AVIS D’EXPERTISE CANONIQUE
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| − | | |
| − | No 9 /3 Janvier 2001
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| − | | |
| − | Après une suite d’erreurs de l’ex-évêque Germain de Saint Denis, le Saint Synode de l’Eglise orthodoxe Roumaine a été obligé de prendre la. décision disciplinaire de lui interdire l’exercice de toutes fonctions épiscopales. Cette décision no. 423 / 1993, ci-après annexée, a été communiquée aux intéressés par une lettre du 3 mars 1993, ci-incluse.
| |
| − | | |
| − | Pour expliciter cette décision du Saint Synode nous précisons que “retirer définitivement la juridiction canonique” et ‘l’exercice de route fonction épiscopale vous est désormais défendu” signifient du point de vue canonique que l’ex-évêque Germain est exclu de l’épiscopat (c’est à dire la déposition), et est réduit â l’état laïc et ainsi n’a plus le droit de célébrer la Sainte Liturgie, ni aucun office religieux, ni de effectuer des ordinations et dispenser les Saints Sacrements, ni de conduire une communauté cultuelle orthodoxe. Par suite il n’est reçu par aucune autre juridiction Orthodoxe.
| |
| − | | |
| − | Contrairement à la décision du Saint Synode de l’Eglise orthodoxe Roumaine, l’ex-évêque Germain, aggrave sa situation ecclésiale en poursuivant l’exercice des fonctions épiscopales, et ainsi tombe sous l’incidence des canons l’excluant de l’Eglise. Tout acte de culte et d’autorité excercé par un évêque après sa déposition sont nuls de fait et de droit (28eme règle apostolique et no. 4 du concile d’Antioche 74ème règle apostolique 9 et 17 du IV concile oecuménique et no. 15 du concile d’ Antioche). Les ordinations pourront être soumises par économie à l’examen de l’autorité canonique.
| |
| − | | |
| − | En continuant ses errements et passant au delà de toutes règles canoniques l’ex-évêque Germain, M. Gilles BERTRAND-HARDY, en se mariant est tombé définitivement de son état épiscopal et conformément aux Saints Canons la sanction appliquée par le Saint Synode pourrait être l’anathème, (no. 6 du VI concile oecuménique, no. I Néocésarée et no 12 et 48 du VI concile oecuménique).
| |
| − | | |
| − | En conclusion, par application des Saints Canons cités qui sont valabLes dans toutes les Eglises orthodoxes, l’ex-évêque Germain, M. Gilles BERTRAND-HARDY non seulement aperdu sa qualité d'évêque mais de plus encourt l’exclusion de l’Eglise orthodoxe,
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| − | | |
| − | Le secrétariat du Saint Synode de l’Eglise orthodoxe Roumaine
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| − | | |
| − | Evêque Ambrosie Sinaitul Vicaire administratif
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| − | P. Constantin Parvu
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| − | Vicaire Patriarcal
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| − | | |
| − | '''I hope you wont,like fr Lev, considers Romanian Orthodox Church like a liar, dictatorial church having made no canonical trial to B Germain before deposing him.
| |
| − | And all canonical dioceses in France: liar too ???'''
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| − | | |
| − | == ECOF ==
| |
| − | Binecuvinteaze parinte,
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| − | | |
| − | I think it is quite important to inform readers about the situation as it is. And, in France, all the canonical Orthodoxy considers ECOF being non-canonical, and bishop Germain deposed. You can ask every diocese, the A.E.O.F, St Serge Institute...
| |
| − | When a laity come to join a canonical diocese, what happens ? If he was a member of ECOF after 1993, he receive anointment of Myrron, the sacrament of Confirmation or "Chrismation" as in baptisma. And then only he can receive holy gifts.
| |
| − | If it is a member of ECOF clergy after 1993, he is examinated by a canonical commission, and if there is no problems, is ordained by a canonical bishop.
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| − | That clearly means that for Orthodox Church in France (canonical one), ECOF is non-canonical and its sacraments after 1993 have no value.
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| − | | |
| − | It does not mean that situation is fair, that Germain and ECOF were wrong, but that's the situation, as it is.
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| − | | |
| − | Most, to say the truth, nearly all french orthodoxs were formed and instructed by ECOF, french traductions were done by ECOF, and still of a very high quality. Contribution of ECOF to French Orthodoxy is enormous and well known. There are ex-members of ECOF in all dioceses of canonical churches established in France, most french priests come from ECOF. French orthodoxs still grateful to ECOF, its foundators like bishop Jean, Maxime Kovalevsky (his litugical chant is still used for instance in Romanian Deanery)and all the work done.
| |
| − | Bishop Marc (Alric), vicar of Metropolitan Joseph, was a member of ECOF!
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| − | So, every body knows the true story of ECOF, and the subject stills touchy and painful to many french orthodoxs.
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| − | That 's why we cannot, to my opinion, let false or incomplete informations about its canonical status written.
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| − | People who want to join ECOF must know the truth, and choose to embrase the situation of canonical isolation, the western rite, difficulties about M.Germain must be accepted and so on. They can choose to fight this situation, by considering like fr Lev ECOF is right.
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| − | | |
| − | Forgive me and pray for me,
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| − | | |
| − | Glikerie of Neamt.
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| − | | |
| − | == content on wikipedia ==
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| − | | |
| − | Fr John - template added. Which page is being lifted to wikipedia? — edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="green">Pιs</font><font color="gold">τévο</font>]] <sup>''[[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|<font color="red">complaints</font>]]''</sup> at 17:29, May 17, 2007 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | Fr John you are considered host of this wiki. Please could you point out who is '''host''' on el.OrthodoxWiki? --[[User:Kalogeropoulos|Kalogeropoulos]] 03:59, May 25, 2007 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | == el.orthodoxwiki ==
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| − | | |
| − | Dear FrJohn, thank you for promoting me in sysop status. You 've done it exactly at the moment I was ready to ask for it, for a short period, in order to translate some messages of the system. Please feel free to take it back when basic job is done and other more qualified persons arrive. In due time I should propose [[:el:User:kostisl]] appointed for sysop -if he wishes, starts and continues editing articles. He has already done excellent work on Orthodoxy in greek wikipedia, and he is the proper person I think for this kind of job, as it concerns special terminology about theology and orthodoxy.
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| − | | |
| − | I'm working on a systematic excavation -the first of the Aegean University- in Kymisala area, in Rhodes Island of Dodecanese, Aegean Sea. Please feel free to ask detailed informations when you need it for your friends. I 've met OrthodoxWiki long ago, searching links about Innocent of Alaska and Alascan Diocese in order to use them on Patrology Project (electronic publication of Patrology's texts) of the University. I came back because of a link in greek wikipedia, and I'll try to help as much as I can. I 've found it a splendid idea for Orthodoxy all around the world and here maybe is the proper place to thank all who are working toward this purpose. I must confess that I am not exactly the religious type, who is able to conform to a dogma. I prefer the mystical type of approaching Christ, that's why I consider other users fitter than me. I wish you the best--[[User:Kalogeropoulos|Kalogeropoulos]] 09:01, May 25, 2007 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | == Deleted photos ==
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| − | | |
| − | Please restore the photos you deleted. I am not doing it over again!! I took the photos myself! They are not from other sources. http://orthodoxwiki.org/Orthodoxy_in_Hawaii {{unsigned|Nectarios}}
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| − | | |
| − | == Could you do me a favor? == | |
| − | | |
| − | Could you please restore the article of Archbishop Anthony of San Francisco? I had received permission to post it from the author of the article, Fr. Peter. I should have made that clear....sorry.
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| − | --[[User:Nectarios|Nectarios]] 12:19, May 31, 2007 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | :Hi Nectarios, I've restored the article and its images, both under our default copyright terms. If this is incorrect - if the author of the article or source of the image though they were giving a one-time permission for use on this site rather than a licensing under CC/GFDL, PLEASE let me know. Thanks! — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit§ion=new talk])
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| − | | |
| − | == el.orthodox.wiki ==
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| − | | |
| − | Thank you for good words. Actually my interest at the moment is directed towards translating context, and localising system's messages. MediaWiki has not yet adopted all this work done in greek wikipedia, so we have to do it over and over again in every fresh wiki. I think that sooner or later this wiki will keep on going and what matters, as far as I'm concerned, is to offer a solid ground, upon which everybody is going to work without special difficalties. Something you could discuss for us with server administrator is timezone differences, if there is some way to solve this problem. I wish you the best--[[User:Kalogeropoulos|Kalogeropoulos]] 13:08, May 31, 2007 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | el.orthodox.wiki is lost. Did you have any kind of changes in the database?--[[User:Kalogeropoulos|Kalogeropoulos]] 09:23, June 4, 2007 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | There were some more problems but now I think it's allright. Thanks and best wishes--[[User:Kalogeropoulos|Kalogeropoulos]] 12:59, June 4, 2007 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | '''[[el:User:Kalogeropoulos/Notebook|Notebook for non Greek speaking sysops and users]]''': You can find informations about functional pages, templates concerning OrthodoxWiki's context, translations completed or in progress, a kind of informal embassy. Pls feel free to add comments or suggestions. Considering OrthodoxWiki's POV a most sensitive matter, we are in need of an independent greek speaking reader-watcher. I wish you the best -:).
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| − | | |
| − | == Thanks ==
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| − | | |
| − | Father Bless. I must thank you for the honor of upgraded my account to sysop status. I hope that I'll be worthy of your trust.--[[User:Adolap|Adolap]] 07:37, June 9, 2007 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | == Moderation ==
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| − | | |
| − | Father John,
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| − | | |
| − | Your Blessings!
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| − | | |
| − | Would you mind removing all posts from the discussion section and keep a watch on the Orthodoxy in the Philippines page, please? The reason is that I feel that the posts have degenerated into personal attacks, gossip, and slander and that these posts are upsetting certain hierarchs.
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| − | | |
| − | Marcus
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| − | | |
| − | == Orthodoxy in the Philippines ==
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| − | | |
| − | Dear Father John,
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| − | | |
| − | Would you mind deleting the entries on the discussion page and monitoring it a little more? The discussions about Antioch and Constantinople I believe are not appropriate for Orthodox wikipedia. Things should be kept on a scholarly and dispassionate level and the two persons, Filipino and Marcus, should not be discussing the issues mentioned because it is bound to upset a few bishops.
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| − | | |
| − | Dimitri
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| − | | |
| − | == Vandalism on the site ==
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| − | | |
| − | June 18, 2007, 9:20am PST
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| − | | |
| − | Good grief I don't envy what you're doing right now. Thank you for adjusting pages. Also note that the vandalism extended to the main page.
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| − | | |
| − | I wanted to contact you to tell you it was happening, but there doesn't seem to be a link to contact sysops. (So I posted to the orthodoxy board on LiveJournal...and was immediately--and appropriately--chastised for directing people to pornographic images!) | |
| − | | |
| − | On the one hand, awareness of how to contact you and your ilk would be helpful. On the other hand, you're clearly on the case quickly.
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| − | | |
| − | Thank you.
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| − | | |
| − | ADDENDUM: Sincerely, Jeff ([[User:Jeffholton|<b>Jeffholton</b>]])
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| − | | |
| − | === About vandalism ===
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| − | | |
| − | Coud you do something about recent vandalism. I believe that all users such as WarDemon is same person. It seams that he is changing his IP Adresses constantly.--[[User:Ddpbf|Ddpbf]] 09:42, June 18, 2007 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | :Hi guys -- Jeff, could you sign your posts with <nowiki>~~~</nowiki>? That helps me know who I'm talking to - thanks. | |
| − | :Ok, now to business. I'm working on it. It's definitely the same person. It looks like this kid is on a dynamic IP connection (like DSL) through Verizon in New York. I'm on the phone with Verizon now. In terms of contact info, my email (and other information about how to contact me) is posted on my user page. I'm easy to find. I'll keep you guys updated if find out more info. — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit§ion=new talk])
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| − | | |
| − | :P.S. No need to mark these things with the deletion template, especially when there are a group of people now watching the recent changes page. Thanks to everyone for their work. — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit§ion=new talk])
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| − | | |
| − | :I don't want to post the details publicly, but this should be resolved soon. — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit§ion=new talk]) | |
| − | | |
| − | == OrthodoxWiki in Macedonian ==
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| − | | |
| − | Father John, I would like to start OrthodoxWiki in Macedonian language.
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| − | Could you help me? [[User:Iacovibus|Iacovibus]] 04:55, July 16, 2007 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | ==Sysop status==
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| − | | |
| − | Thanking you for your confidence so far, I should kindly ask removal of sysop status. --[[User:Kalogeropoulos|Kalogeropoulos]] 08:14, September 4, 2007 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | == Hello ==
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| − | | |
| − | Fr. John, bless! Just wanted to drop a note to say a very belated Hello. I had the pleasure of visiting your parish the last Sunday in August, when I was in town for the RailsEdge conference. I'm a web developer by trade, and have worked off and on on wikipedia since 2001 or so. I'll try to spend a little time here as well. "Anything worth doing is worth doing well" eh? [[User:Theophan|Rdr. Theophan]] 08:05, September 22, 2007 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | ==Holy Cross Articles==
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| − | | |
| − | Dear Fr. John,
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| − | your blessing.
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| − | | |
| − | I read your communication with Pres. Magda, about the Holy Cross articles. I am the professor who required the students to post articles on the orthowiki. My name is Timothy Patitsas, and i teach Ethics here in Brookline.
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| − | | |
| − | I would appreciate your advice on how to improve the work that my students ultimately post on the orthowiki, as the results last spring (the first time I have attempted this), were not up to the standards I had hoped. Should I have them submit hard copies to me first, and then pick only those which are the best to be posted?
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| | | | |
| − | Sincerely,
| + | == How can I submit my sandbox page for publication on Orthodox Wiki? == |
| − | Timothy Patitsas
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| − | [[User:Seoul|Seoul]] 19:22, November 2, 2007 (PDT)
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| | | | |
| − | ==OrthodoxWiki in Spanish==
| + | Hello Father John, |
| − | Dear FrJohn,
| + | I have created a page on the Nuns of Shamordino of Solovki Prison and Vorkuta Gulag. I would like to submit it for publication. How can I do that once the page has been created in Sandbox? |
| | | | |
| − | I am writing because I want to express my congratulations for your idea of creating a Spanish version of OrthodoxWiki. Although let me tell you I am a little amazed about the existence of OrthodoxWiki in a language spoken in countries that hardly have orthodox believers. However I think OrthodoxWiki may give useful information about the Orthodox Church, an important branch of Christianity that is almost unknown in Spain and Latin America.
| + | Thanks very much. Robert |
| | | | |
| − | I am not an orthodox Christian, but I am interested in this church. For that I hope to contribute with new articles in Spanish and English for OrthodoxWiki.
| + | [[User:Relic67|Relic67]] ([[User talk:Relic67|talk]]) 18:14, August 13, 2016 (UTC) |
| | | | |
| − | The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you!
| + | : Sorry, Father! I had forgotten to leave my contact details using the four tildes. Hope you can answer my question now. Thank you. [[User:Relic67|Relic67]] ([[User talk:Relic67|talk]]) 18:25, August 13, 2016 (UTC) |
| | | | |
| − | --[[User:juanmanuelarcia|'''<font color="#999900">Juan<font color="#110099">manuel<font color="#990011">arcia</font></font></font>''']] 14:02, November 18, 2007 (UTC)
| + | == Ro.OrthodoxWiki.org == |
| | | | |
| − | ==OrthodoxWiki in Russian and Drevo==
| + | Thank you very much! I requested only "administrator" permissions, but I see that I got more than I asked for. I hope not to disappoint anyone. God help us! --[[User:Sîmbotin|Sîmbotin]] 05:32, November 10, 2016 (UTC) |
| − | Father John, hello! In Russian, we have russian huge orthodox wiki called [http://drevo.pravbeseda.org drevo]. What do you think about posting an article by me, both to the drevo and here (orthodoxwiki)? Which licence must I use? [[User:Зануда|Зануда]] 04:05, November 24, 2007 (PST)
| + | ::Thanks for your work Sîmbotin. Actually, you were made a "bureaucrat" which is a funny name, but allows you to administrate users, particularly on RO. God bless, — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit§ion=new talk]) 09:19, November 10, 2016 (UTC) |
