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==Testimony From the Protestant Reformers==
Hi, for the mere sake of respect for this forum, I would not dare to delete some one elses work, however, I definately would like to say that I do not see the value or the worth in devoting a massive paragraph to the 'testimony' of Protestant reformers? I mean ... how does this really promote and enhance Orthodox awareness to an already lengthy article which is in serious need of clean up? I would like to challenge the removal of this paragraph or rewording it to be more generic like ....Other religions perspective of the Theotokos - rather than a specific focul groups point of view ...even if it is in line with the Orthodox ... sorry to offend ...not trying to eb aggressive just sort of reading this for the first time as an outsider and thought .. relevance? -- [[User:Ixthis888|Vasiliki]] 21:26, January 28, 2008 (PST)
: You're right that it could probably stand some summarizing. The idea was essentially to show that almost all Christians everywhere have accepted the Theotokos's ever-virginity until very recently. —[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</small> 05:51, January 29, 2008 (PST)
==All-Holy==
Doesn't the Greek "All-Holy" correspond to the Hebrew "holy of holies"? AFAIK, both denote superlative degrees, so they both mean basically "most holy". In Mary, just as behind the curtain in the temple, God and man meet. At the Crucifixion, the temple curtain was torn open, and the holy of holies was no longer "separated out" (i.e. holy) from the rest of the world.
--[[User:Gus3|Gus3]] 05:45, April 11, 2008 (UTC)
: There is not a direct translational correspondence. In Greek, ''panagia'' is "all-holy," while ''hyperagia'' is "most-holy." I don't have my lexicon and Greek Bible on hand, but "holy of holies" would be something else. There is, of course, a poetic and typological correspondence, though these terms may also refer to God Himself, for instance, or to parts of the church building.
: In any event, there is not an ''allegorical'' correspondence, so that we may take what happens to one side of the metaphorical equation and apply it to all others. Though we in some sense regard the Theotokos as the "Holy of Holies" as in the Temple, there is no equivalent in her of the tearing of the veil or the eventual departure of God's presence from the Temple and its destruction by the Romans.
: With regard to the Temple in Jerusalem, the tearing of the veil is traditionally interpreted not as a "de-sanctification" of the Holy of Holies, but rather as an indication that God has ''come out'' to His people, which we see re-presented most clearly when the Chalice containing the Body and Blood of Christ comes out of the new Holy of Holies in an Orthodox church so that the people may commune directly with God. —[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]] <font face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">('''[[User:ASDamick/Wiki-philosophy|THINK!]]''')</font></small> 11:18, April 11, 2008 (UTC)
:My understanding of "Panagia" is that it means that the Mother of God has become completely purified of defilement and sin (because of the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit at the Annunciation) and is thus left solely as a holy being. To interpret it to mean a superlative may be theologically in error, because in comparison to the Lord Jesus, Mary cannot be viewed as of the greatest level of holiness. As typically taught by Orthodox theologians, the Mother of God inherited the ancestral curse of broken communion with God and lack of sanctifying grace ("original sin"), whereas the Lord Jesus was born incapable of being born with this curse because of His total oneness with the Holy Spirit. However, Mary, in being purified of this curse at the Annunciation, can be understood as "All-Holy".
:One thing I am still left wondering by this article is why there appears to be no discussion as to the matter of Mary's sinlessness. Sure, the section on "Panagia" touches slightly on the matter, but there really isn't any coverage as to the theological opinions as to whether Mary was with personal sin or not and whether she was born with or without original sin or whether she was later purified of it. Does anyone have any idea as to why this is? [[User:Deusveritasest|Deusveritasest]] 06:46, January 20, 2009 (UTC)
Those issues are discussed somewhat under "Immaculate" in the article. --[[User:Fr Lev|Fr Lev]] 13:01, January 21, 2009 (UTC)
== Redirect to Spanish site ... ==
I just wanted to point out that when someone is NOT logged in to OrthodoxWiki and attempts to look at this article it redirects to the Spanish site ... I dont know why ...I was only able to view it in English by logging in.
The address that appears in the URL is still www.orthodoxwiki.org/Theotokos its jsut that the Spanish stuff comes up. This is weird does anyone know why the software is doing this? [[User:Ixthis888|Vasiliki]] 03:34, June 30, 2009 (UTC)
