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:Perhaps you have a way that this could be re-stated to maintain NPOV-MCB? --{{User:Pistevo/sig}} 07:59, May 13, 2006 (CDT)
:''above comment by [[User:Kadj|Kadj]] edited by [[User:PADRAEG|PADRAEG]], reversed by [[User:Pistevo]]''
::It is a generally accepted part of [[w:netiquette|netiquette]] that one does not misrepresent another person's comments. Possibly because it hasn't been possible before, but a person's comments should '''''never''''' be changed by another person. This action can also be defamatory. If there was a superior way to phrase 'transmitted uncompromised teachings' (etc.) in the article, any given person is invited and asked to do this; a talk page is ''not'' the place for editing a genuine editor's work. — edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="green">Pιs</font><font color="gold">τévο</font>]] <sup>''[[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|<font color="red">complaints</font>]]''</sup> at 01:01, September 9, 2006 (CDT)
:Obviously [[User:PADRAEG]] agrees with [[User:Kadj|Kadj's]] comment. It would be helpful to us if he could give some supporting evidence; examples of teachings which differ from historic Orthodoxy. Then this thread would be instructive rather than simply defamatory. Others could respond, and a real conversation could take place. — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit§ion=new talk])
::Father Seraphim did, to the end of his life, transmit the uncompromised teachings of the Church in the sense that the large majority of "his" works are really just made up of quotes from the saints and from the lives of saints. He really didn't say anything new, especially in the whole 'toll-houses' debate. In fact, most of his critics simply have not read through the book carefully enough, especially those who accuse him falsely of Platonism or Gnosticism. He openly states in the book that his position is based on the amount of available information from the fathers. Anyone who knew Father Seraphim (and MOST of his contemporaries, disciples, friends etc are alive today) knew that his entire purpose in writing was to translate and transmit information from the fathers. In short, the point of this little paragraph is this: there's more than enough evidence to suggest that this article is correct, at least as far as asserting that that was Father Seraphim's GOAL, and most people who have spent any serious amount of time researching Fr. Seraphim will agree that he did, in fact, accomplish that goal. I don't think there's a POV issue here.{{unsigned|SeraphimX}}
::: Whether they are correct or thorough or not, there are enough fairly respectable critics of Fr. Seraphim's writings, especially on the toll houses, that it is not only worth mentioning them, but it is also not proper to label what Fr. Seraphim and Fr. Herman were doing as the "uncompromised teachings of the Church" in an unqualified way. I've moderated the language a bit. —[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]] <font face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">('''[[User:ASDamick/Wiki-philosophy|THINK!]]''')</font></small> 13:50, April 30, 2008 (UTC)
== Why the world needs to know the truth on Fr. Seraphim ==
When I heard that Fr. Seraphim Rose *may* have been a homosexual, I was shocked, but at the same time very much intrigued. For many of us Orthodox Christians, we have come to view Fr. Seraphim as a modern example of the holiness as seen from the desert fathers. Granted there are many who argue and disagree with his theology, I being one of them, but theology aside I think we can all say that he was indeed a holy man, filled with God's grace. I think it is a bad thing that his real life is covered up. I beleive he was a homosexual, and if he really was, then I think that it should be written about. Why? Because as the Orthodox Church grows in numbers, it will ultimately have to face the critical eyes of the modern secular world. One of the most pressing issues facing religion is homosexuality. The Orthodox Church believes that homosexuality is a passion which can be overcome by Christ. We, the Orthodox Church, will need to use concrete examples of holy men (and women) whose homosexual tendencies were curbed by ascetic practice within the Church if we want to A) convince the world that the True Church is the Orthodox Church and B) To help those homosexuals already in the Church (and yes there are many) to be encouraged, inspired, and strengthed by the lives of those like Fr. Seraphim Rose; that homosexuality can be overcome through prayer, fasting, and the sacraments . The Orthodox Church for centuries has used the lives of Her saints to proclaim the Truth of Christ's action in the world, and now in the 21st century we find ourselves in the same position but with just different issues. I hope that one day if Fr. Seraphim is canonized that thourgh his intercession and story of his life many homosexuals will find comfort, hope, and inspiration in their struggle. [[User:John Maletis|John Maletis]] 19:01, August 22, 2006
:Thanks, John for these words. That's a nice statement of why I think it's important to include these details here too. — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit§ion=new talk])
::Hi, I know I have come across this 2 years after your initial discussion but when I read about this priest on various blogs on the intranet (literally only 10 minutes ago) I felt physically ill because I understood that he was an active homosexual whilst being a priest and then glorified by people ... but upon looking him up in Orthodox wiki, reading this discussion I am understanding that he was homosexual prior to his conversion ... I really do think that this topic warrants a small paragraph on the main article, for clearing up the initial scandalismo that a traditional orthodox person, like myself, will go through without knowing that he repented for this and worked through those issues - so that it is clear to us traditionalists reading it and that we dont misunderstand his life ...that he repented and WAS homosexual as opposed to IS homosexual ... [[User:Ixthis888|Vasiliki]] 17:41, March 19, 2008 (PDT)
:::I believe this is covered adequately in the article. There is an appropriate reference link for more information. —[[User:Magda|<b>magda</b>]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 18:09, March 19, 2008 (PDT)
== Suggestion .. ? ==
I suggest the following paragraph;
"While studying under Alan Watts at the American Academy of Asian Studies after graduating from Pomona College in 1956, Eugene discovered the writings of René Guenon. Through Guenon's writings, Eugene was inspired to seek out an authentic, grounded spiritual faith tradition. Gregerson, a practicing Russian Orthodox Christian at the time, introduced Eugene to Orthodoxy. Just as Gregerson was choosing to abandon his Orthodoxy, Eugene was inspired to learn more about the faith. This culminated in Eugene's decision to enter the Church through chrismation in 1962."
....be moved upwards to end the section "Early Life" as opposed to being in the "Orthodoxy" section. This paragraph is really an end paragraph anyways, not an opening one for a new section. Just an idea - I don't want to make any edits without agreement... I've been editing wikipedia articles for years but am brand new to Orthodox Wiki. :) {{unsigned|SeraphimX}}
