Talk:Orthodoxy in Hawaii

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Archived discussion: /Jurisdictionalism and Hawaii

I made some formatting edits and also removed some POV commentary. — FrJohn (talk) 22:08, May 30, 2007 (PDT)


Nectarios, I'm not clear why you are trying to remove the association of this Russian community with ROCOR. it appears to me that you are trying to shape the article to assert that ROCOR has an exclusive canonical claim to the Hawaiian Islands. Can you be more clear about why you're making these edits?

From an OCA point of view, Hawaii is part of North America, which constitutes is proper canonical territory, following the tomos from Moscow. I don't think this is a terribly helpful or productive battle to fight though -- we must all recognize the reality of the historical situation in America (and all the "diaspora" lands) , with all of its opportunities and challenges. Ideally, there would be a united Orthodox church in these regions, but I don't think this will happen anytime soon. I agree we need to keep proper canonical order in mind, but it shouldn't be a stick with which we beat each other with - rather, something we work towards in charity and brotherhood. — FrJohn (talk)

Personal attacks.

I dont think personal attacks are proper here Fr. John. Who moderates the moderators? Who can I complain to? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Truemarc (talkcontribs) .

1. Who's making personal attacks?
2. FrJohn is the chief site administrator and deals with issues regarding the administrators.
3. You can complain to any of the admins, though FrJohn is the top dog. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 13:41, May 31, 2007 (PDT)

So basically you're saying that this place has no authority, you're just running around un-regulated? --Truemarc 13:42, May 31, 2007 (PDT)

Authority on OrthodoxWiki is the team of admins, presided over by FrJohn, who founded and runs the site. Be sure to read the various links regarding OrthodoxWiki included in the welcome message on your talk page. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 13:46, May 31, 2007 (PDT)

Which Hierarch guides this site??

According to Church canon law, the hierarchs have final say on anything a priest does. So what you're saying Fr. Andrew, is that no Orthodox bishop has control over this site? A site which clearly deals with Orthodoxy and it's "image" to the world?? Perhaps Vladika Job would like to hear how his priests are running around un-supervised. Truemarc 13:47, May 31, 2007 (PDT)

I encourage you to read the FAQ linked to on your talk page, which answers many of your questions. I'm also fairly sure that Abp. Job would be proud of the fine work Fr. John has been doing here for nearly three years, but I also imagine that the latter wouldn't mind if you contacted the former to discuss it with him! But of course Fr. John can speak for himself on this matter. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 13:52, May 31, 2007 (PDT)

So Vladika Job doesnt know of this?? You realise you need your bishop's permission. Do you have yours Fr. Andrew? Truemarc 14:11, May 31, 2007 (PDT)

Yep. In fact, he and I have talked on the phone about elements in the article we have here about him. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 14:17, May 31, 2007 (PDT)


It is very scarey that you are not being guided by a bishop. You are espousing the Orthodox faith to people who do not know of it, and you are not being guided by a bishop??

This is unbelievable. The Church has strict rules against this sort of thing. So whatever your personal bias is, that is TRUTH?? This is wrong. There should be a bishop guiding this site. Truemarc 14:01, May 31, 2007 (PDT)

One more thing: whenever a priest writes an article or a book, it MUST be approved by a bishop. And not just any bishop, your bishop. A community of priests who moderate each other. What are you Old-believers?  :-) Truemarc 14:09, May 31, 2007 (PDT)

We're all guided by our individual bishops. The nature of a wiki project pretty much precludes a single hierarch being responsible for it. (Would all of the clergy involved on this site need to get some sort of canonical release to be temporarily under the authority of another bishop when they're editing?) Anyway, I'm sorry you don't approve of our structure, but it's worked very well for us since our inception in November 2004, and we've even had endorsement from several bishops. (As for the Church's rules, do they really address how to run a wiki, a collaboration between dozens to thousands of editors stretched out over the whole world?)
In any event, it's not a question of personal bias, but rather of Orthodox Christians working cordially together to try to present a balanced, encyclopedic site. Whenever something particularly odd has been added to the site, it's usually fixed within a matter of a day or so, though usually only within a few hours or even minutes.
We encourage you to join in and assist in this work. I presume you operate with the blessing of your own bishop, as well. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 14:15, May 31, 2007 (PDT)

What does this have to do with the Church in Hawaii?

What does this discussion have to do with the church in Hawaii? You're arguing over things that dont belong here. The issues about the bishop should go on the Trapeza list, and the argument between users nectarius and frjohn should go to a jurisdictionalism talk list. Please keep it only about the Church in Hawaii. What will people think when they come here and look at this? Please gentlemen think of others.