Talk:Orthodoxy in Australasia
The status of the Macedonian Orthodox Church is that of schism from the rest of Orthodoxy. Their overseas dioceses are unlisted on the remainder of 'collation' pages (eg Orthodoxy in America). Is it proper to list them here? --— by Pιsτévο talk complaints at 23:41, April 29, 2006 (CDT)
In terms of population, number of churches and missions, the Macedonian Orthodox are the second largest Eastern Orthodox jurisdiction in Australia. They have a permanent bishop for Australia and New Zealand. At the moment it is Metropolitan Petar, although that is likely to change soon.
If ROCOR is listed then Macedonia should be listed.
Using the above definition of 'schism', then both are "in schism from the rest of Orthodoxy". But both enjoy cordial relations with some other jurisdiction(s) within Orthodoxy.
Neither ROCOR nor Macedonia are 'heretical'.
I have been trying to get a copy of the Tomos of autocephaly supposedly issued by the Serbian Holy Synod and which was supposed to have been later revoked after intense lobbying from the Orthodox Churches in Greece and Turkey. That would help sort out some of the problems. But it is difficult to get hold of. If it ever existed.
Patriarch Alexii has held talks with both sides. Moscow has offered to be peace broker between the warring factions. Moscow has also decried the attempt by Serbia to set up a parallel hierarchy in FYRO Macedonia. And in balance, Moscow has also decried the imprisonment in Macedonia of the parallel hierarch.
The Serbian Orthodox statement on their official website that all Orthodox Churches support the positions taken by the Serbian Patriarchate is just plain untrue.
Antioch had a very successful facting-finding mission to Macedonia a few years ago. The Macedonian Hierarchy tried to hijack it and turn it into a show of support for the current Macedonian hierarchy. The Antiochian Metropolitan Archbishop who visited there was given national media coverage daily, especially when he suggested the bishops should get out of their palaces and meet all their people, start teaching them all about the Orthodox faith, and start teaching the real meaning of the sacraments and making them widely available to the faithful. The faithful loved hearing about their Orthodox faith. The hierarchy was less than amused.
Both the Serbian and the Macedonian Orthodox Churches suffer from "the Balkanian mentality" as one of my Balkan emigre clergy friends describes it.
Plus there is the siege mentality exhibited from south of the FYRO Macedonian border, to contend with.
A NPOV would be to ignore the imperial aspirations of all three key Churches in this dispute, and to recognise the defacto situation at the moment.
The Macedonian Orthodox are a recognised religious group in Australian Census publications and well covered in Hughes and Godley's "Eastern Orthodox in Australia".
All Australian Religious Sociologists would list them. The Redfern Phanariot certainly would not.
A matter for you as editor of course.
chrisg 2006-04-30 : 2346 EAST
- Difference between ROCOR and Macedonian is the recognition by some of the 14/15 churches - MOC is recognised by no one, whereas ROCOR is recognised by a small number. Allowing the Macedonian metropolitanate on this page would also necessitate adding them on any other page where there is an overseas diocese (eg America). Having said all that, since its a decision that could lead to precedents formed over OWiki, it's probably best to have a larger amount of opinions. --— by Pιsτévο talk complaints at 17:51, April 30, 2006 (CDT)
- As a group whose status is currently "from the Orthodox Church, but in schism" as per the POV of "world Orthodoxy," they're worthy of a mention. But I would also very much mention their status. The Macedonian Orthodox Church article also is currently quite POV and needs to be completely rewritten, IMO.
- They don't quite compare to the ROCOR for a number of reasons, but I do think they're worth mentioning on their own merits. Their current absence from the American articles is mainly due to a lack of information on them by the American articles' primary compiler. :) —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 21:21, April 30, 2006 (CDT)
Which Churches do you say officially recognise ROCOR? chrisg 2006-05-05 : 2346 EAST
- The Serbian church has always recognized ROCOR. It's been a little wierd - other churches in communion with Serbia but not ROCOR, and ROCOR in communion with Serbia but not other churches. I think most folks have understood this as a temporary blip caused by Communism. Thanksfully, these abberations are being cleared up... — FrJohn (talk)
While the Serbian Church de facto accepts ROCOR, has there ever been any synodal decision to "be in communion with" ROCOR? chrisg 2006-05-06 : 0746 EAST
- I've always thought that the Serbian Church had an awesome deal in the diaspora :)
- However, I don't know if there was there was an explicit acceptance of ROCOR. TBH, I don't think that it was seen as needed - they were Russian bishops who were told to organise themselves, so they were accepted. Also, I'm fairly sure that Jerusalem accepts ROCOR, too. --— by Pιsτévο talk complaints at 17:07, May 5, 2006 (CDT)