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A suggestion about the saints of the day

I know that a majority of the Orthodox in America are on the New Calendar, but since a majority of the Orthodox in the world are on the Old, would it be possible to list the saints of the day according to each calendar... somewhat along the lines of what is done on the main page of

-Fr. John Whiteford 3-22-07 (3-09-07 o.s.) :)

There are two possibilities for this that I can think of:
  • Edit all 366 calendar day templates to include a separate section for the OC day. (This will require some rearranging of the main page design to account for the extra text.)
  • Figure out some way to code the wiki to display a separate section which automatically figures -13 days. At the moment, the daily feasts section is possible because the wiki "knows" what day it is today. (This will also require redesign for the main page.)
Of these two, I don't know how to do the latter, but it would require much less work.
The difficulty with the former, aside from being a large amount of work, would be that it would make all the many thousands of internal links to dates confused: to which date should they link? Both? The calendar local to the saint when he died? Either way, this would require a level of work I don't even want to begin to imagine.
I'm hoping perhaps FrJohn knows of some module or something he can plug in or write to teach the wiki how to figure out what day it was 13 days ago. It seems like a relatively simple thing for a computer to figure. The first solution seems almost insurmountable to me.
In any event, since we invented the "Today's feasts" section, I've wished we could display the OC feasts, as well. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 05:13, March 22, 2007 (PDT)
For what it’s worth, here’s my thoughts. In the first option, Edit all 366 calendar day templates, each template could just include the template of 13 days earlier. The problem is that on leap years, the first half of March will need to be altered and altered back afterwards. (The page could just display a link to the other day instead of displaying the text).
The second option, using math, is better, but calculations do not seem to work here. But if it did, not only could OC dates be calculated, but moving feast days could be calculated too. - Andrew 06:41, March 22, 2007 (PDT)
It looks like there are some templates at meta wiki for Julian dates, and it might be useful to look into importing them. However, due to the large amount of information, I'm not sure what we'd need. —magda (talk) 09:18, March 22, 2007 (PDT)
Editing templates to include the template from 13 days earlier wouldn't work, as it would become multi-referential and end up including all 366 days every time. In addition, in leap years, the alignment is different around Feb. 29. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 14:25, March 22, 2007 (PDT)
I am not enough of a computer nerd to know how workable this would be, but if there was a way to just subtract 13 days from any given date that factored in what year it was, you would have the correct Julian date through the rest of this century, because every year that is a leap year, is a leap year on both calendars.
-Fr. John Whiteford
The only way that would work is if it were automatically done. I was responding to the suggesting of hard-coding in nested templates; this would only work if years all had exactly the same number of days, since -13 for March 1, for instance, will be different from one year to the next. I think the only way this will work is if we can somehow get the wiki to calculate -13 based on {{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}, which generates the appropriate date. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 18:52, March 22, 2007 (PDT)

I could put you in touch with Patrick Barnes. I'm not sure how he does it, but it works.
-Fr. John Whiteford
I can't imagine that that would be compatible with the wiki software. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 17:28, March 22, 2007 (PDT)

Scientific Julian Date vs. Julian Calendar

It is not clear from the templates, but the Julian Date is a scientific way of calculating time that only has a tangential connection with the Julian Calendar... so you would just want to make sure you were getting the right Julian Date.

-Fr. John Whiteford

Hi Fr. John, Thanks for your comment. I'm not sure I know what you mean - is this issue clarified on the Julian Calendar page? — FrJohn (talk)
See Wikipedia:Julian day. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 17:29, March 22, 2007 (PDT)
I added this as a link on the Julian Calendar page. — FrJohn (talk)

A new suggestion about the Saints of the Day

I am not sure how the main page is set up, but for each day you have a template, and a page for the day. On the page for each day you could easily have it point to the Template for both the old and new calendars. There are only 13 days each 4 years that this would be a problem for, and that is March 1-13. You could deal with that by just setting up those days the way that they will be in a non-leap year year, and maybe put a note regarding the one day variance when a leap year occurs. You could put two templates for the Old calendar on these days, with the second template prefaced by a note that these are the Old Calendar commemorations when it is a leap year. You could modify the day pages for these dates every leap year, and then change them back afterwards.

Then the main page could draw from the text of the day page rather than the templates. What think ye all? Frjohnwhiteford 10:13, April 19, 2007 (PDT)

This syntax won't work for the main page, because the main page's feasts are based on an automatic variable that "knows" what day it is and includes the proper template accordingly. If you know how to make the wiki calculate -13 from the date it "knows," then we're in business.
The main page doesn't include April 19, but rather Template:April 19. Editing April 19 to include Template:April 6 only adjusts April 19 and would not show up on the main page. If, however, you were to edit Template:April 19 to include Template:April 6 (and do the same for all calendar days), the output would be a recursive, endless loop including the entire calendar and repeating infinitely.
Having the main page include April 19, however, would mean having to create a whole series of nested templates, involving changing every single link to a date in the whole wiki (many thousands of links). April 19 is not a template and cannot be included as one.
I think we need to find some sort of extension for the wiki so that it can "know" what day it was 13 days ago. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 13:45, April 19, 2007 (PDT)