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: There was never such a "grant". A "grant" in church terminology would be - Tomos, and a Tomos was never issued to the Macedonian Orthodox Church. No stronger denial than this is needed. (Therefore, the statements below are disputable, to say at least.) [[User:K.panteleimon|K.panteleimon]] 20:31, June 1, 2009 (UTC)
: What does "independence" in the Church mean? Independent from what? From Christ? What we in the Church value is not independence but unity in Christ - and this unity is achieved through communion. Nothing unclear here. [[User:K.panteleimon|K.panteleimon]] 20:31, June 1, 2009 (UTC)
: The position of MOC is opposition to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. [[User:K.panteleimon|K.panteleimon]] 20:31, June 1, 2009 (UTC)
→Independence
The Orthodox within the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (Macedonia), have consistently said they were granted autonomy by their mother church Serbia. No one in authority seems to deny that. It is clear that the Serbian Church later resiled from that position, perhaps under intense pressure from a geographically close Patriarchate or other Holy Synod.
However, most legal systems consider that once a grant of independence is made it cannot be taken back except by conquest or free treaty.
So the process of independence for Orthodox Churches is not so clear.
The case of the Macedonian Orthodox Church is a fresh one with lots of invective and hatred shown on the three or four sides involved in the conflict. The Serbians have a strong position. The Greeks have a strong position. The Macedonians have a strong position. And the parallel jurisdiction recently set up within Macedonia by the Serbians also has a strong position.
Plus there are the political powers who are using this cause for their own nationalistic or hegemonistic ends.
[[User:Chrisg|Chrisg]] 18:19, March 20, 2007 (PDT)
: There was never such a "grant". A "grant" in church terminology would be - Tomos, and a Tomos was never issued to the Macedonian Orthodox Church. No stronger denial than this is needed.
: What does "independence" in the Church mean? Independent from what? From Christ? What we in the Church value is not independence but unity in Christ - and this unity is achieved through communion. Nothing unclear here.
: The position of MOC is opposition to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. [[User:K.panteleimon|K.panteleimon]] 20:31, June 1, 2009 (UTC)
== About independence ==
Church of Serbia granted autonomy to three Dioceses in Macedonia. Holy Assembly of Bishops of Serbian Church never resiled from this desision. But autonomy is not autocephaly and Church of Serbia never gave autocephaly to Macedonians. Macedonians proclaimed their church autocephalous. This was uncanonical fact. Macedonians were asking autocephaly. They also were asking autocephaly from all churches and were rejected. They are asking recognition even from Turkish Parlaiment!!
: If the Church of Serbia granted autonomy to Macedonian dioceses, and have not resiled from that position, why did they set up a parallel jurisiction bearing the same name as one of the autonomous dioceses? Is that not defacto resiling from the earlier grant? chrisg 2007Apr12:1543EAST
:: The Serbian Church never issued a tomos to the MOC, so there was never such a "grant", thus there is no resilation either. However the Serbian Church issued a tomos for autonomy to the Orthodox Ohrid Archbishopric. [[User:K.panteleimon|K.panteleimon]] 20:19, June 1, 2009 (UTC)
== Confusion on added material ==
I'm a little confused about [[User:Ddpbf|Ddpbf]]'s [http://en.orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Macedonian_Orthodox_Church&diff=48898&oldid=45271 edits], especially the sentence "But two of them soon consecrated new bishop who was without nide qalifications." which I changed to "But two of them soon consecrated new bishops who were without the proper qualifications." for legibility... but that change doesn't really clarify the "nide qalifications" of the original. Any ideas? —[[User:Magda|<b>magda</b>]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 17:18, May 28, 2008 (UTC)
