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Talk:Dormition

39 bytes added, 23:47, March 2, 2008
Apologetic - the Sinlessness of the Virgin Mary
The supposed teaching of the sinlessness of the Theotokos was referenced, and a citation was needed. Father Thomas Hopko's essay on the Dormition was cited. I don't see how a single protopresbyter speaks for the entire Orthodox Church, so I removed the cite as insufficient to back up the claim.
Also, an essay by John Maximovitch was referenced to support the sinlessness was cited. But again I must say that I do not see how the opinion of one single bishop can constitute evidence of the teaching of the entire Orthodox Church. On top of this, John Maximovitch was not even a canonical bishop, as at the time he was part of the then schismatic group known as ROCOR. As such I removed this reference as well. A proper citation proving the universal teaching of the Orthodox Church on the sinlessness of Mary is still pending. - by '''deusveritasest''' [[User:Deusveritasest|Deusveritasest]] 15:47, March 2, 2008 (Christopher DombrowskiPST)
:If you are not willing to accept a reference from a single person writing on behalf of the Orthodox Church, I do not understand what kind of citation you are looking for. Something from a synod or a patriarch or a canon? Admittedly, no ''one'' person is the Church, but I searched and did not find anything which was specifically contradicting this statement. I think an appropriate way to handle this would be to reinstate the citation from Fr. Thomas Hopko (which contains the exact sentence: "The Orthodox Church teaches that Mary is without personal sins." and was therefore cited as a reference), and present an opposing view&mdash;with citation from another source or sources, showing that ''some'' within the Orthodox Church hold one belief and others another. —[[User:Magda|<b>magda</b>]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 11:52, February 29, 2008 (PST)
I must leave for now but I would love to take this discussion further on Monday. Have a peaceful weekend. [[User:Ixthis888|Vasiliki]] 23:14, February 28, 2008 (PST)
I would like everyone involved with this to know that I am personally a believer in the sinlessness of the Theotokos, at the very least at the time of the Annuciation, if not even all throughout her life. So in that regard I am not an opponent of the doctrine and as such that is not why I am questioning the validity of the claim. My problem is when we go around saying "the Orthodox Church teaches this", "the Orthodox Church teaches that", without proper ecumenical evidence to back up that notion. I'm just leaving work right now so I'll get to your comments later tonight. - deusveritasest [[User:Deusveritasest|Deusveritasest]] 15:47, March 2, 2008 (Christopher DombrowskiPST)

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