Talk:Divine Liturgy

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Revision as of 15:29, January 26, 2005 by RdrChristopher (talk | contribs)
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Please take a look and make any emendations necessary. --Basil 14:43, 23 Jan 2005 (CST)

Divine Liturgy texts

Would it be useful to put a copy of Abp. Dmitri's (OCADOS) translation here on OrthodoxWiki ? AFAIK it is freely reproducible. --Rdr. Chris 18:22, 25 Jan 2005 (CST)

Perhaps links to online copies would be best. After all, if we put one usage on OrthodoxWiki, we'd conceivably have to put them all on.  :) I think most already exist in external links, anyhow. --Rdr. Andrew 18:41, 25 Jan 2005 (CST)

Lots of Markup leading to a "portal" article

I put in a lot more markup and made some minor changes in wording to make the rendering more literal, e.g. "Only One is holy" became "One is holy", and "without change" became "without corruption" (which means change, but is lexically much richer).

Why add so much markup? I was thinking that this article could serve as a kind of category article into specialized topics in the Divine Liturgy. There's a wealth of reflection on these issues (e.g. Taft's hundreds of pages on the Great Entrance or the diptychs. Certainly there are some experts in our Orthodox community who could provide much more information about these things.

I guess I'm looking not only for an historical overview of practices, but also descriptions of the diversity that continues today within and among Orthodox jurisdictions. God-willing, in time, OrthodoxWiki will be uniquely suited to this kind of task. What do you think? FrJohn 00:04, 26 Jan 2005 (CST)

Yes, exactly. I've read Fr. Taft's short book on the Byzantine Rite as well has his book Liturgy of the Hours in East and West, but not the one that everyone talks about on the Liturgy. What I put up was mostly to get people going, not be the Thing Itself. -- 05:59, 26 Jan 2005 (CST)
I added a "Bibliographical Resources" section, with several titles that I'm familiar with. I declined to list several seminal texts on liturgical studies in general, such as the obvious Shape of Liturgy by Dix, Introduction to Liturgical Theology by Schmemann, or Byzantine Rite by Taft, feeling that these would belong more appropriately in a more general article. -- 07:08, 26 Jan 2005 (CST)
Gah. Sorry, I need to pay closer attention. Those edits are me. :-/ --Basil 07:10, 26 Jan 2005 (CST)

Antidoron & Prosphora

It was explained by our hieromonk that only that portion that is cut away from the lamb is antidoron (in the Russian tradition), that portion is reserved and generally given to those Orthodox who did not commune or to be taken to those that could not attend. The remaining loaves (after their use in the preparation) are then broken and provided to everyone, Orthodox and non-Orthodox alike after Communion. This is termed prosphora. I am not sure how universal this is within the Russian tradtion, so I was hesitant about noting this in the article under the Preparation &/or Communion/Dismissal section. Thoughts ? --Rdr. Chris 08:32, 26 Jan 2005 (CST)

My initial response is to recommend that for an article on antidoron or prosphora. Also, if I recall discussions on this subject correctly, the Greek practice uses one large loaf, not five separate loaves. My experience is that the bread given out is termed antidoron indiscriminately (and I'm OCA, so I'm mostly familiar with the Russian tradition, less with others). Again, I would probably put that in separate article myself. Anyone else? --Basil 09:10, 26 Jan 2005 (CST)
The standard Greek practice is normally to use five large loaves. That is also the Antiochian practice. For liturgies where expected attendance is low, that number may be lowered, but the norm is to use five.
I agree that a separate article is worth doing—be sure to link to (and perhaps solicit the site maintainer to contribute). --Rdr. Andrew 09:20, 26 Jan 2005 (CST)
Thanks for the inputs, the indiscriminate use of the terms antidoron/prosphora (at least in our communtity which has a Greek parish and our OCA mission) was precisely why our priest gave a short explanation of which was which. --Rdr. Chris 09:29, 26 Jan 2005 (CST)