Talk:Ben Lomond Crisis

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This page was here on Dec 31st, 2007, and removed by someone on Jan 1, 2008. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JulianDelphiki (talkcontribs) .

This is interesting. There's nothing here for this page on the internet archive (dated November 18, 2005). There doesn't seem to be a Google cache for the page. There are three articles linking to the page, but Google's cache of those articles (on December 23, 24, and 30 indicate that Google didn't see the page on those dates. It doesn't appear that anyone actually removed the page, or there would have been something in the logs, so I'm baffled as to what happened. —magda (talk) 09:03, January 2, 2008 (PST)
There is no indication in any of the wiki's logs that this page existed before it was created by JulianDelphiki on Jan. 1st. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 14:39, January 18, 2008 (PST)

Non Wiki question

Hi, I read this article and was really interested in asking - If you belong to the Antiochian Church and do stuff from say the Russian Church or Greek Church (ie Byzantine style singing as opposed to something else) - is this valid grounds for excommunication? I thought that if we all belong to a 'Orthodox Church' then we are freely able to 'interchange' between them (ie celebrate at a Russian Church if I was Greek or vice versa) because we all originate from the initial Apostolic churches??? Vasiliki 18:55, January 17, 2008 (PST)

Under normal circumstances, there is no problem - although we are able to interchange, so to speak, because of our shared faith, not our origin. Firstly, I have a feeling that this article is somewhat less than balanced; secondly, disobedience to one's bishop can, under some circumstances, be grounds for excommunication. — edited by Pιsτévο talk complaints at 00:08, January 18, 2008 (PST)

Suitability of article

Given the nature of this article's subject matter (i.e., highly controversial and with most of the main players all still alive), there needs to be some third-party citations from reputable sources (e.g., historians, journalists, etc.), or else this should be deleted. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 14:39, January 18, 2008 (PST)

I am of like mind with the rest of my colleagues on this article. While I am not an administrator, I certainly deem it unfair and unbalanced (to be Bill O'Reilly about the whole thing). I had the most distinguished pleasure of having Fr. David Barr as my father confessor for over two years while I was a student at the University of Texas. Though he isn't mentioned by name in the article, the V. Rev. Fr. David was sent in to help the Ben Lomond Crisis as a co-celebrant to this church. I have been told stories that are shockingly different than what this article claims (for example, the said priest telling his parishioners "not to think" about this issue, and urging them to act and align with him). And being a member of the Antiochian Archdiocese, I certainly know that our hierarchy is not nefarious as this individual makes it out to be. Priests don't just get defrocked for asinine and petty reasons. It is all a pack of lies, as my wife Gabriela stated so poignantly.
Also, where is the author getting his numbers on attendances? You don't have that many people at a Great Vespers in a bishop's cathedral.Mike 19:53, January 18, 2008 (PST)

Sorry if my question has caused a bit of an issue for Ben Lemond ... I have no idea who he is or what this article is actually about ...hence my curiosity. Vasiliki 14:50, January 20, 2008 (PST)

I've tried to dissect this article so that it can be rewritten. As it was, it was not encyclopedic, even if the subject matter is appropriate (probably debatable) and could be freely written about without citations (not the case).
I don't have access to journal articles anymore (soon, but not yet), but I remember an article titled 'Enfants Terrible' or something similar, which talked about three instances of problems with converts to Orthodoxy, and the first example was Ben Lomond, with some detail. This is the only reference I'm aware of, but it's a pretty good one. — edited by Pιsτévο talk complaints at 17:29, January 20, 2008 (PST)
Vasiliki: The article is about a parish church in the city of Ben Lomond, California. In this church, the senior priest apparently started criticizing Metr. Phillip and the other Antiochian hierarchy (among over things), refused to obey them, and broke off with a good chunk of the parish to start his own church. Don't worry about causing any controversy; this article had already been posted and deleted (for good reason, if you ask me) once before you posted on the second version, and it was obviously either written by one of the schismatic Ben Lomondites or someone highly sympathetic toward their cause. Gabriela 18:30, January 20, 2008 (PST)