This page was here on Dec 31st, 2007, and removed by someone on Jan [[Talk:Ben_Lomond_Crisis/Archives 1, 2008|Archives 1]] - Creation to Protection of article. {{unsigned|JulianDelphiki}}
:This is interesting. There's nothing here for this page on the [http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://orthodoxwiki.org/Ben_Lomond_Crisis internet archive] (dated November 18, 2005). There doesn't seem ==Additions to be article==Have added a Google cache for the page. There are three articles linking citation to the page, but GoogleArchbishop's cache archpastoral directive (which was the suspension of those articles (on [http://209.85.207.104/search?q=cache:ixZY2Qdg7FYJ:orthodoxwiki.org/Timeline_of_Orthodoxy_in_America December 23], [http://209.85.207.104/search?q=cache:SykpLUe6-lcJ:orthodoxwiki.org/Philip_(Salibathe clergy)_of_New_York 24], and [http://209.85.207.104/search?q=cache:XPou7Cbsh7wJ:orthodoxwiki.org/Greek_Orthodox_Patriarchate_of_Jerusalem_in_North_and_South_America 30] indicate that Google didn't see the page ideally, would like to add citations to articles posted on those datesBen Lomond Tragedy. It doesn't appear that anyone actually removed Although the pagesources are proper for encyclopaedic articles, or there would based on new articles that have been something in the posted there, I'd want a consensus to add such citations. — edited by [[httpUser:Pistevo|<font color="green">Pιs</font><font color="gold">τévο</orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Ben_Lomond_Crisis logsfont>]], so I<sup>''m baffled as to what happened. —[[Usertalk:MagdaPistevo|<bfont color="blue">magdatalk</bfont>]] ('' ''[[User_talkUser talk:MagdaPistevo/dev/null|talk<font color="red">complaints</font>]]) 09''</sup> at 02:03, January 228, 2008 (PST)
:: There is no indication in Pending any of the wikiobjections, I'll put a link up to Dcn R. Thomas Zell's logs that article on this page existed before it was created by [[User:JulianDelphiki|JulianDelphiki]] on Jan. 1st, written in the first AGAIN magazine post-court verdict. —[It's viewable [Userhttp:ASDamick|<font size="3//z6.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Frinvisionfree. Andrew<com/On_Our_Way_Home/font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font colorindex.php?showtopic="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color157&st="black">contribs</font>78 here]]</small> 14:39(about eight screens down), January 18and I'm not sure where else it might be available. At some point, 2008 (PST)any additional points from this article should be added in to the article itself.
==Non Wiki question ==HiAnyone think that this should be unprotected, I read this article and was really interested in asking - If you belong or is it just going to be a permanently touchy subject until all the Antiochian Church and do stuff from say key players are out of the Russian Church or Greek Church (ie Byzantine style singing as opposed to something else) - is this valid grounds for excommunicationMilitant? I thought that if we all belong to a — by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="green">Pιs</font><font color="gold">τévο</font>]] <sup>''[[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]'Orthodox Church' then we are freely able to 'interchange' between them (ie celebrate at a Russian Church if I was Greek or vice versa) because we all originate from the initial Apostolic churches??? [[Usertalk:Ixthis888Pistevo/dev/null|Vasiliki<font color="red">complaints</font>]] 18''</sup> at 20:5534, January 17March 5, 2008 (PST)
:Under normal circumstances, there is no problem - although we are able to interchange, so to speak, because of our shared faith, not our origin. Firstly, I have a feeling that this article is somewhat less than balanced; secondly, disobedience to one's bishop can, under some circumstances, be grounds for excommunication. — edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="green">Pιs</font><font color="gold">τévο</font>]] <sup>''[[User talk:Pistevo|<font colorTypo? ="blue">talk</font>]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|<font color="red">complaints</font>]]''</sup> at 00:08, January 18, 2008 (PST)
==Suitability of article==Given the nature of Feel free to remove this article's subject matter section once dealt with (i.e., highly controversial and including if you choose not to deal with most of the main players all still alive), there needs to be some third-party citations from reputable sources (e.g., historians, journalists, etc.it), or else this should be deleted. —[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</small> 14:39, January 18, 2008 (PST)
:I am of like mind with the rest of my colleagues on this article1. While I am not an administratorspecifically a typo, I certainly deem it unfair and unbalanced (to be Bill O'Reilly about the whole thing). I had the most distinguished pleasure third sentence of having Fr. David Barr as my father confessor for over two years while I was a student at the University of Texas. Though he isn't mentioned first bullet could be cleaned up by name in the article, not using the V. Rev. Fr. David was sent in to help the Ben Lomond Crisis as a co-celebrant to this church. I have been told stories that are shockingly different than what this article claims (for example, the said priest telling his parishioners word "not to thinkperiod" about this issue, and urging them to act and align with him). And being a member of the Antiochian Archdiocese, I certainly know that our hierarchy is not nefarious as this individual makes it out to be. Priests don't just get defrocked for asinine and petty reasons. It is all a pack of lies, as my wife Gabriela stated so poignantlyan extra time.
:Also2. Minor beef, but should we adjust British spellings (e.g., where is the author getting his numbers on attendances"practise") in an article about an innately American episode? You I honestly don't have that many people at a Great Vespers in a bishopknow if there's cathedrala wiki standard for use of English (US vs.[[User:Mike|Mike]] 19:53UK). If there is none, January 18then please, 2008 (PST)allow me to sit down and shut up.
Sorry if my question has caused a bit of an issue Let me also thank you for Ben Lemond ..this article. I'm reaching a point now where I have no idea who he is or need a good understanding of what this article is actually about .happened just so I don't stick my foot in my mouth while discussing it with others.I really hate controversy.hence my curiosityIt makes me break out in hives. [[User:Ixthis888|Vasiliki]] 14:50, January 20, 2008 (PST)
::I've tried to dissect this article so that it can be rewritten. As it was, it was not encyclopedic, even if the subject matter is appropriate (probably debatable) and could be freely written about without citations (''not'' the case).::I don't have access to journal articles anymore (soon, but not yet), but I remember an article titled 'Enfants Terrible' or something similar, which talked about three instances of problems with converts to Orthodoxy, and the first example was Ben Lomond, with some detail. This is the only reference I'm aware of, but it's a pretty good one. — edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="green">Pιs</font><font color="gold">τévο</font>]] <sup>''[[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|<font color="red">complaints</font>]]''</sup> at 17:29, January 20, 2008 (PST) :::Vasiliki: The article is about a parish church in the city of Ben Lomond, California. In this church, the senior priest apparently started criticizing Metr. Phillip and the other Antiochian hierarchy (among over things), refused to obey them, and broke off with a good chunk of the parish to start his own church. Don't worry about causing any controversy; this article had already been posted and deleted (for good reason, if you ask me) once before you posted on the second version, and it was obviously either written by one of the schismatic Ben Lomondites or someone highly sympathetic toward their cause. [[User:GabrielaJeffholton|GabrielaTheophilus]] 1823:3014, January 20May 3, 2008 2009 (PSTUTC)
