Talk:Basil Osborne

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Revision as of 07:49, May 15, 2007 by Antonios aigyptos (talk | contribs) (Corrections to details on history between 2006-2007: Notes on ASDamick's comments)
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Succession box

Regarding the ordering of the succession box, I had always assumed that it went from earliest resposibility to latest (see Abp Stylianos succession box). Have I been doing things wrongly and against OW protocol and procedure? — edited by sτévο at 04:23, June 9, 2006 (CDT)

I think maybe you're right. Of course, the fact that I'm not 100% certain means I probably have been inconsistent. Still, a quick glance at a couple big names shows what you describe as the norm. Fixed! —Dcn. Andrew talk random contribs 06:33, June 9, 2006 (CDT)

Various recent edits

I think that there's a factual problem with the timeline regarding the forced retirement. Bp. Basil was retired not because he tried to be received by the EP without a canonical release; indeed, he asked for that release[1] before he sent his letter to the EP. The reception without release occurred subsequent to the retirement and on the basis of the appeal that Basil made after his retirement was announced.

The announcement of the retirement happened after Basil would not withdraw his letter to the EP, the text of which is explicit that Basil is requesting a canonical release from the MP (read the letter here). When Basil refused to withdraw this letter, he was retired. The question of reception without canonical release only came subsequently, after Basil appealed the decision by the MP to the EP.

The actual order of events is why I edited the article the way I did. Based on the documents in question, it's incorrect to state that Bp. Basil was retired for seeking reception into the EP without a release. Rather, he was retired because he would not withdraw his letter to the EP which included explicit mention of his seeking a release. In essence, the MP did not want Basil even to be speaking with Constantinople about the question, but Basil said that it seemed foolish to request release to go to the EP without also asking the EP about it.

Regarding the succession box, we don't put detailed information in them that's covered in the articles. This is related to the question of titles in general. OrthodoxWiki policy is generally to use the title for a person that he's using for himself (unless that title isn't remotely recognized by any Orthodox authority anywhere). A related example is Mstyslav (Skrypnyk) of Kiev, whose position as patriarch of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church or even as a bishop of Kiev is completely unrecognized by anyone outside the UAOC. Yet we list this title not because OrthodoxWiki is recognizing it, but because it's the easiest referent for finding the entry.

It's really not practicable for OrthodoxWiki to have to take into account every disputed title in terms of either naming articles or the shorthand that succession boxes are meant to be. Doing so would mean, for instance, a rather awkward revision for every article on a bishop who claims a title to a see in the USA.

It is enough to note the dispute in the article text if it's notable. In this case, the dispute is notable, though the only church which currently disputes it is the MP. There hasn't yet been any break in communion with Basil from the other Orthodox churches.

I'm going to edit the article to reflect these items. —Dcn. Andrew talk random contribs 16:06, August 6, 2006 (CDT)

Lengthy canonical notes

See my recent comments on Talk:Church of Constantinople. This stuff belongs over at the Prerogatives of the Ecumenical Patriarchate article. Its inclusion to this extent here is something of an imbalance and can be limited to just a summary sentence with a reference to the fuller article on the subject. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 06:21, March 30, 2007 (PDT)

Corrections to details on history between 2006-2007

I've made quite a few corrections and emendations to the sections of this article dealing with Bishop Basil's move from the MP to the EP. Much of the previous data was either inaccurate or outdated, so I've updated it with more accurate info and several new footnotes to cite the materials that are presented. —Antonios Aigyptostalk 13:45, May 14, 2007 (PDT)

The tilt of this article has again shifted.  :/ For instance, the claim is now made that +Basil sought to enter the EP without a release from Moscow, but it is generally known that the whole series of events came about precisely because of a request for a release from Moscow. I am not an expert on this subject, but from what I have read, it's my impression that a number of inaccuracies have now made their way into the article with the latest edits. (See the discussion above.) —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 17:31, May 14, 2007 (PDT)

Actually, Fr Andrew, this is a misconception that is promulgated in some circles. But the suspension of the bishop came not from his request for release, but from his requesting reception into a different patriarchate before release had been granted, and during a period when he was specifically instructed not to approach another patriarchate. This is witnessed by the correspondence, cited in the article. I'm not sure how this qualifies as either a "tilt" or an "inaccuracy"? —Antonios Aigyptostalk 00:49, May 15, 2007 (PDT)