Talk:Deaconess - Revision history

Kamasarye: rephrasing question (sorry, my bad).

2011-01-27T21:52:18Z

rephrasing question (sorry, my bad).

Chrisg: /* Antiochian.net Article */

2011-01-27T21:04:15Z

‎Antiochian.net Article

Chrisg: /* Antiochian.net Article */ source

2011-01-27T21:03:39Z

‎Antiochian.net Article: source

Chrisg: /* Broken links */

2011-01-27T21:01:44Z

‎Broken links

Kamasarye: broken external links

2011-01-23T20:41:38Z

broken external links

Chrisg: extending permission

2007-12-05T02:18:19Z

extending permission

AlephGamma at 03:01, November 20, 2007

2007-11-20T03:01:00Z

Hans: a

2007-02-09T13:30:40Z

Chrisg: Permission granted

2006-06-01T02:14:09Z

Permission granted

Magda: permission?

2006-05-31T20:27:16Z

permission?

New page

Do we have permission to use this text? —[[User:Magda|<b>magda</b>]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 15:27, May 31, 2006 (CDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:52, January 27, 2011
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	[[User:Chrisg\|Chrisg]] 21:04, January 27, 2011 (UTC)		[[User:Chrisg\|Chrisg]] 21:04, January 27, 2011 (UTC)
		+
		+	:Thanks. My apologies, I made an error in explaining my problem: the antiochian.net article on deaconesses works ok for me. It is the link within the article, referencing the Russian practice (where it says "the ROC [http://www.antiochian.net/content/view/466/6/ still has deaconesses]") that doesn't work for me. I translated the article as it is here, mentioning the antiochian.net article as its direct source. But I am a bit confused because I never heard/read anything concerning the existence of ''deaconesses'' (with that name) in the Romanian Church. So what I'm trying to figure out is this:
		+	:1. whether there are some sources allowing us to identify the office that in Romanian female monasteries is called (as far as I know) that of the ''ecclesiarch'' (indeed in charge of the church and liturgical assistant to the priest) with the office of the ''deaconess'', and
		+
		+	:2. whether we could find corresponding sources for the Russian and other Orthodox Churches on that topic (I understand that for the Greek Church there's the decision concerning the reinstatement of the deaconess' order, so that's settled).
		+	:Thanks again for all your help.[[User:Kamasarye\|Iuliana]] 21:52, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:04, January 27, 2011
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	source: http://www.antiochian.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=472&Itemid=21 (link is working fine in this country)		source: http://www.antiochian.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=472&Itemid=21 (link is working fine in this country)
		+
		+	[[User:Chrisg\|Chrisg]] 21:04, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:03, January 27, 2011
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	see also Byzantine Female Deacons		see also Byzantine Female Deacons

−	source:	+	source: http://www.antiochian.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=472&Itemid=21 (link is working fine in this country)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:01, January 27, 2011
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	Regards. [[User:Kamasarye\|Iuliana]] 20:41, January 23, 2011 (UTC)		Regards. [[User:Kamasarye\|Iuliana]] 20:41, January 23, 2011 (UTC)
		+
		+	==Antiochian.net Article==
		+
		+	Deaconesses
		+
		+	Deaconesses were an order in the Christian Church at least until the middle mediaeval period. Information is sparse as to their activities during those times, though it is clear they were mostly involved with ministering to other women and girls.
		+
		+	It being improper for males to be physically handling women, deaconesses were commissioned to assist especially in baptism and chrismation.
		+
		+	It is an anachronism to say deaconesses did not perform the same liturgical role as deacons in the early church. That is imputing back in time to deacons a role which they were given considerably later in Church history.
		+
		+	In the early Church it is highly likely that deaconesses performed the same liturgical role outside the divine liturgy as deacons, and quite likely more, because of the taboo on (male) priests touching female neophytes, or touching females requiring the sacrament of holy oil for the sick.
		+
		+	It is likely that the actual application of the holy oil onto the body of the women being chrismated was done by the deaconess, and not the priest. The priest did the praying and supervised, but did not touch. Deacons would not have performed this role. As there was no taboo on the priest physically applying the oil to male candidates, there was no need for deacons to be involved in this.
		+
		+	The Japanese Orthodox Church from its inception in the later half of the nineteenth century had some deaconesses. Japan's first bishop, Saint Nicholas Kasatkin, had a number of deaconesses during his tenure.
		+
		+	At the same time, the Russian Orthodox Church, Japan's mother Church, had deaconesses. It seems from the scant material available that the Russian Church has always had deaconesses.
		+
		+	The Greek Orthodox Church has had deaconesses intermittently over the recent centuries, and appears to have usually had deaconesses in its female monasteries from time immemorial.
		+
		+	The Russian Orthodox Church still has deaconesses.
		+
		+	In female monasteries the role of a deaconess seems necessary for the good order and function of the monastery church. It is more seemly than having male deacons involved there.
		+
		+	In 2006, the larger Bulgarian and Romanian monasteries have a deaconess who is usually second in charge. In Romania they wear distinctive garb while performing diaconal duties.
		+
		+	The question of having deaconesses perform the liturgical role of deacons in parish churches or cathedrals could be seen as a different matter since the practice of having deaconesses assist in those places seems to have generally died out in the Byzantine Church about 600 years ago with the inception of the Ottoman yoke.
		+
		+	see also Byzantine Female Deacons
		+
		+	source:

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:41, January 23, 2011
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	==Greek Synod==		==Greek Synod==
	Is there a reliable translation somewhere of the Greek Synod decision? I am curious as to whether they made a distinction between ordination and/ore lay function for deaconesses. [[User:AlephGamma\|AlephGamma]] 19:01, November 19, 2007 (PST)		Is there a reliable translation somewhere of the Greek Synod decision? I am curious as to whether they made a distinction between ordination and/ore lay function for deaconesses. [[User:AlephGamma\|AlephGamma]] 19:01, November 19, 2007 (PST)
		+
		+	==Broken links==
		+
		+	Trying to work on the Romanian translation, I checked the links:
		+
		+	The link in the 2nd reference to Russian Holy Synod (sedmitza site) decision appear to be broken. I tried to the antiochian.net article, didn't work.
		+
		+	The two St. Nina links also "not found" (''book review'' and ''Interview'').
		+
		+	Regards. [[User:Kamasarye\|Iuliana]] 20:41, January 23, 2011 (UTC)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 Do we have permission to use this text? —[[User:Magda|<b>magda</b>]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 15:27, May 31, 2006 (CDT)
 :Permission granted as long as source continues to be acknowledged. chrisg (antiochian weblord) 2006-06-01-1214 EAST
 In the Bollandists, Ste Geneviève (Genovefa) of Paris, at least in one of the Vitae they give, exorcises demons by oil sanctified by the bishop.
 ==Greek Synod==
 Is there a reliable translation somewhere of the Greek Synod decision? I am curious as to whether they made a distinction between ordination and/ore lay function for deaconesses. [[User:AlephGamma|AlephGamma]] 19:01, November 19, 2007 (PST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:01, November 20, 2007
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	In the Bollandists, Ste Geneviève (Genovefa) of Paris, at least in one of the Vitae they give, exorcises demons by oil sanctified by the bishop.		In the Bollandists, Ste Geneviève (Genovefa) of Paris, at least in one of the Vitae they give, exorcises demons by oil sanctified by the bishop.
		+
		+	==Greek Synod==
		+	Is there a reliable translation somewhere of the Greek Synod decision? I am curious as to whether they made a distinction between ordination and/ore lay function for deaconesses. [[User:AlephGamma\|AlephGamma]] 19:01, November 19, 2007 (PST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:30, February 9, 2007
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	Do we have permission to use this text? —[[User:Magda\|<b>magda</b>]] ([[User_talk:Magda\|talk]]) 15:27, May 31, 2006 (CDT)		Do we have permission to use this text? —[[User:Magda\|<b>magda</b>]] ([[User_talk:Magda\|talk]]) 15:27, May 31, 2006 (CDT)
	:Permission granted as long as source continues to be acknowledged. chrisg (antiochian weblord) 2006-06-01-1214 EAST		:Permission granted as long as source continues to be acknowledged. chrisg (antiochian weblord) 2006-06-01-1214 EAST
		+
		+	In the Bollandists, Ste Geneviève (Genovefa) of Paris, at least in one of the Vitae they give, exorcises demons by oil sanctified by the bishop.

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:14, June 1, 2006
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	Do we have permission to use this text? —[[User:Magda\|<b>magda</b>]] ([[User_talk:Magda\|talk]]) 15:27, May 31, 2006 (CDT)		Do we have permission to use this text? —[[User:Magda\|<b>magda</b>]] ([[User_talk:Magda\|talk]]) 15:27, May 31, 2006 (CDT)
		+	:Permission granted as long as source continues to be acknowledged. chrisg (antiochian weblord) 2006-06-01-1214 EAST