https://orthodoxwiki.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Antonios+aigyptos&feedformat=atomOrthodoxWiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-28T22:59:45ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.30.0https://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Talk:Basil_Osborne&diff=51411Talk:Basil Osborne2007-05-18T16:45:29Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: Response to ASDamick's comments</p>
<hr />
<div>==Succession box==<br />
Regarding the ordering of the succession box, I had always assumed that it went from earliest resposibility to latest (see Abp [[Stylianos (Harkianakis) of Australia|Stylianos]] succession box). Have I been doing things wrongly and against OW protocol and procedure? &mdash; edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="red">Pι</font>]][[Special:Listusers/sysop|s]][[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="yellow">τ</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Pistevo|é]][[User:Pistevo|<font color="blue">vο</font>]] at 04:23, June 9, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
: I think maybe you're right. Of course, the fact that I'm not 100% certain means I probably have been inconsistent. Still, a quick glance at a couple big names shows what you describe as the norm. Fixed! &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>Dcn. Andrew</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Randompage|<font color="blue">random</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 06:33, June 9, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Various recent edits ==<br />
<br />
I think that there's a factual problem with the timeline regarding the forced retirement. Bp. Basil was retired not because he tried to be received by the EP without a canonical release; indeed, he asked for that release[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/BB2Patr240406_en.html] before he sent his letter to the EP. The reception without release occurred subsequent to the retirement and on the basis of the appeal that Basil made after his retirement was announced.<br />
<br />
The announcement of the retirement happened after Basil would not withdraw his letter to the EP, the text of which is explicit that Basil is requesting a canonical release from the MP ([http://orthodoxe.free.fr/files/BBtoEcPatr01.pdf read the letter here]). When Basil refused to withdraw this letter, he was retired. The question of reception without canonical release only came subsequently, after Basil appealed the decision by the MP to the EP.<br />
<br />
The actual order of events is why I edited the article the way I did. Based on the documents in question, it's incorrect to state that Bp. Basil was retired for seeking reception into the EP without a release. Rather, he was retired because he would not withdraw his letter to the EP which included explicit mention of his seeking a release. In essence, the MP did not want Basil even to be speaking with Constantinople about the question, but Basil said that it seemed foolish to request release to go to the EP without also asking the EP about it.<br />
<br />
<br />
Regarding the succession box, we don't put detailed information in them that's covered in the articles. This is related to the question of titles in general. OrthodoxWiki policy is generally to use the title for a person that he's using for himself (unless that title isn't remotely recognized by any Orthodox authority anywhere). A related example is [[Mstyslav (Skrypnyk) of Kiev]], whose position as patriarch of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church or even as a bishop of Kiev is completely unrecognized by anyone outside the [[Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church|UAOC]]. Yet we list this title not because OrthodoxWiki is recognizing it, but because it's the easiest referent for finding the entry.<br />
<br />
It's really not practicable for OrthodoxWiki to have to take into account every disputed title in terms of either naming articles or the shorthand that succession boxes are meant to be. Doing so would mean, for instance, a rather awkward revision for every article on a bishop who claims a title to a see in the USA.<br />
<br />
It is enough to note the dispute in the article text if it's notable. In this case, the dispute is notable, though the only church which currently disputes it is the MP. There hasn't yet been any break in communion with Basil from the other Orthodox churches.<br />
<br />
<br />
I'm going to edit the article to reflect these items. &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>Dcn. Andrew</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Randompage|<font color="blue">random</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 16:06, August 6, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Lengthy canonical notes ==<br />
<br />
See my recent comments on [[Talk:Church of Constantinople]]. This stuff belongs over at the [[Prerogatives of the Ecumenical Patriarchate]] article. Its inclusion to this extent here is something of an imbalance and can be limited to just a summary sentence with a reference to the fuller article on the subject. &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</small> 06:21, March 30, 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Corrections to details on history between 2006-2007 ==<br />
<br />
I've made quite a few corrections and emendations to the sections of this article dealing with Bishop Basil's move from the MP to the EP. Much of the previous data was either inaccurate or outdated, so I've updated it with more accurate info and several new footnotes to cite the materials that are presented. &mdash;[[User:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="orange"><b>Antonios Aigyptos</b></font>]]<sup><i>[[User_talk:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]</i></sup> 13:45, May 14, 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: The tilt of this article has again shifted. :/ For instance, the claim is now made that +Basil sought to enter the EP without a release from Moscow, but it is generally known that the whole series of events came about precisely because of a request for a release from Moscow. I am not an expert on this subject, but from what I have read, it's my impression that a number of inaccuracies have now made their way into the article with the latest edits. (See the discussion above.) &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</small> 17:31, May 14, 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
Actually, Fr Andrew, this is a misconception that is promulgated in some circles. But the suspension of the bishop came not from his request for release, but from his requesting reception into a different patriarchate before release had been granted, and during a period when he was specifically instructed not to approach another patriarchate. This is witnessed by the correspondence, cited in the article. I'm not sure how this qualifies as either a "tilt" or an "inaccuracy"? &mdash;[[User:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="orange"><b>Antonios Aigyptos</b></font>]]<sup><i>[[User_talk:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]</i></sup> 00:49, May 15, 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
===Explanation of the timeline===<br />
<br />
Because some people are under false impressions about the timeline of events, it seems like a good idea to elaborate on them here in the Talk page, so people can determine what is "bias" or "tilt," and what is accurate telling of facts. Here is the timeline of the early months of the schism, with each element documented by letters, notices, ukazi, and so on:<br />
<br />
*10 April 2006 - Bishop Basil writes to Patriarch Alexii regarding the cathedral, expressing his "deepest loyalty".[http://www.sourozh.org/archives/docs/BB2Patr100406_en.html]<br />
*24 April 2006 - Bishop Basil writes to Patriarch Alexii, asking to be released and for the whole of the Diocese of Sourozh to follow him into a new diocese under the EP. [http://www.sourozh.org/archives/docs/BB2Patr240406_en.html]<br />
*2 May 2006 - Bishop Basil writes to the EP, asking to be received into a new diocese.[http://orthodoxe.free.fr/files/BBtoEcPatr01.pdf]<br />
*5 May 2006 - Patriarch Alexii writes back to Bishop Basil in response to his letter from the 24th, commenting on the disparity between the Bishop Basil's confessions of loyalty in his letter of 10 April, and his desire to leave the Russian Orthodox Church in the letter of the 24th. In this letter he recommends meeting together with Bishop Basil face-to-face to discuss his concerns.[http://www.sourozh.org/archives/docs/Patr2BB050506_en.html]<br />
*9 May 2006 - Subsequent to sending his letter of 5 May, Patriarch Alexii learns of Bishop Basil's letter to the EP, sent on the 2nd, in which Bishop Basil had formally and officially requested incardination into the EP without having obtained release from his own Patriarchate. In response, Patriarch Alexii withdraws the offer of a personal meeting and establishes a committee to look into the situation further; and the MP's Synod retires Bishop Basil pending this committee's investigation. This is laid out in [http://www.sourozh.org/archives/docs/ukazi_en.html Ukaz 3303 of 9 May], and is later re-affirmed and explained in [http://www.sourozh.org/archives/docs/synod070606_en.html Minute 31 of the Synod's meeting on 7 June 2006].<br />
*14 May 2006 - The decision of the MP Synod to remove Bishop Basil as administrator of Sourozh and retire him, and to appoint Archbishop Innokenty of Korsun as new temporary administrator of the diocese, is read aloud in the Diocece's Cathedral in London. Bishop Basil responds immediately, stating that he will appeal the MP's decision to the EP.[http://www.dioceseinfo.org/HISTORICAL_BACKGROUND/Sourozh/hbsindex.htm]<br />
*22 May 2006 - On learning that Bishop Basil, anticipating being retired or suspended by the MP for his actions, had either written in advance or backdated general 'letters of release' to all the clergy of the Diocese of Sourozh, which were not actually distributed until after his suspension but which carry dates marked before it, the newly-appointed temporary administrator of Sourozh, Archbishop Innokenty of Korsun, issues a letter outlining their invalidity.[http://www.sourozh.org/archives/letters/letter220506.html]<br />
*8 June 2006 - The Holy Synod of the EP votes to receive Bishop Basil based on his appeal, and names him Bishop of Amphipolis.<br />
*12 June 2006 - The Synod of the MP refuses to accept Bishop Basil's reception into the EP, on grounds that the EP's interpretations of the canons used in Bishop Basil's appeal were interpreted inappropriately. It summons him to appear at the MP Holy Synod's next meeting on 17 June.[http://www.mospat.ru/index.php?page=31763&lng=1] This meeting he does not attend.<br />
*19 July 2006 - The MP Synod meets and expresses its regret that Bishop Basil will not meet to discuss the situation. It once again summons him to a meeting. At this meeting the Synod hears the report of the commission established to investigate the situation.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/synod190706_en.html]<br />
<br />
It should be clear from this, and from reading the letters / documents cited for each item, that claims that ''"the whole series of events came about precisely because of a request for a release from Moscow"'' just aren't correct. &mdash;[[User:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="orange"><b>Antonios Aigyptos</b></font>]]<sup><i>[[User_talk:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]</i></sup> 11:13, May 15, 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: The way the article is worded now makes it appear that +Basil approached the EP without talking to Moscow, who then suspended him. But the May 2 letter from +Basil to the EP explicitly mentions requesting a release.[http://orthodoxe.free.fr/files/BBtoEcPatr01.pdf] It's not a formal request to be received without a release. (It would have been worded rather differently if it were such a thing.)<br />
<br />
: It only makes sense that +Basil would ask the "target" of the release about the possibility of being received while also asking the "releaser." (As any cleric can tell you, getting a release without any agreement on the other end could leave one in perpetual limbo.) It's when +Basil refused to withdraw the letter approaching the EP that Moscow suspended him, as your timeline shows.<br />
<br />
: I think it's a serious mischaracterization of the letter from +Basil to the EP to describe it as a request for "incardination into the EP without having obtained release." A simple reading of the plain language of the whole letter shows this. &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</small> 15:04, May 16, 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
The proper order for a cleric to who wishes to move from one diocese to another is for the cleric to ask the bishop of diocese to which he wishes to move, to write to the bishop in which he currently resides, requesting that the cleric be released into his care and jurisdiction. There is not as clear an order for bishops wishing to move between patriarchates, as this is not a usual practice. But Bishop Basil in any case went ''first'' to his patriarch, asking for release, and independently to the Ecumenical Patriarch ''without waiting for release to be given from his patriarch''. This is clearly what the MP found improper (and has as recently as last month characterized as "illegal"): that the Bishop wrote asking for a blessing to leave, and then made the formal request to be received elsewhere ''without waiting for the blessing he'd requested.'' If he'd wanted to do things properly, he would have spoken to the EP, and asked the EP to write to the MP requesting his release and move to its jurisdiction. But he didn't do this. Instead, he went about moving in a way that the MP found uncanonical, and on grounds that he would not revoke his letter to the EP, suspended him from his duties.<br />
<br />
I don't see how this isn't the clear testimony of the documentary evidence of the whole affair. The point of a good article on this subject must be to relate the materials as they actually happened. Referring to the normal way canonical transfers happen doesn't really apply in this case, since that's not the way they were carried out. &mdash;[[User:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="orange"><b>Antonios Aigyptos</b></font>]]<sup><i>[[User_talk:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]</i></sup> 09:45, May 18, 2007 (PDT)</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Talk:Basil_Osborne&diff=51256Talk:Basil Osborne2007-05-15T18:13:38Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: /* Corrections to details on history between 2006-2007 */ Added an explanation of the timeline</p>
<hr />
<div>==Succession box==<br />
Regarding the ordering of the succession box, I had always assumed that it went from earliest resposibility to latest (see Abp [[Stylianos (Harkianakis) of Australia|Stylianos]] succession box). Have I been doing things wrongly and against OW protocol and procedure? &mdash; edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="red">Pι</font>]][[Special:Listusers/sysop|s]][[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="yellow">τ</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Pistevo|é]][[User:Pistevo|<font color="blue">vο</font>]] at 04:23, June 9, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
: I think maybe you're right. Of course, the fact that I'm not 100% certain means I probably have been inconsistent. Still, a quick glance at a couple big names shows what you describe as the norm. Fixed! &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>Dcn. Andrew</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Randompage|<font color="blue">random</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 06:33, June 9, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Various recent edits ==<br />
<br />
I think that there's a factual problem with the timeline regarding the forced retirement. Bp. Basil was retired not because he tried to be received by the EP without a canonical release; indeed, he asked for that release[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/BB2Patr240406_en.html] before he sent his letter to the EP. The reception without release occurred subsequent to the retirement and on the basis of the appeal that Basil made after his retirement was announced.<br />
<br />
The announcement of the retirement happened after Basil would not withdraw his letter to the EP, the text of which is explicit that Basil is requesting a canonical release from the MP ([http://orthodoxe.free.fr/files/BBtoEcPatr01.pdf read the letter here]). When Basil refused to withdraw this letter, he was retired. The question of reception without canonical release only came subsequently, after Basil appealed the decision by the MP to the EP.<br />
<br />
The actual order of events is why I edited the article the way I did. Based on the documents in question, it's incorrect to state that Bp. Basil was retired for seeking reception into the EP without a release. Rather, he was retired because he would not withdraw his letter to the EP which included explicit mention of his seeking a release. In essence, the MP did not want Basil even to be speaking with Constantinople about the question, but Basil said that it seemed foolish to request release to go to the EP without also asking the EP about it.<br />
<br />
<br />
Regarding the succession box, we don't put detailed information in them that's covered in the articles. This is related to the question of titles in general. OrthodoxWiki policy is generally to use the title for a person that he's using for himself (unless that title isn't remotely recognized by any Orthodox authority anywhere). A related example is [[Mstyslav (Skrypnyk) of Kiev]], whose position as patriarch of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church or even as a bishop of Kiev is completely unrecognized by anyone outside the [[Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church|UAOC]]. Yet we list this title not because OrthodoxWiki is recognizing it, but because it's the easiest referent for finding the entry.<br />
<br />
It's really not practicable for OrthodoxWiki to have to take into account every disputed title in terms of either naming articles or the shorthand that succession boxes are meant to be. Doing so would mean, for instance, a rather awkward revision for every article on a bishop who claims a title to a see in the USA.<br />
<br />
It is enough to note the dispute in the article text if it's notable. In this case, the dispute is notable, though the only church which currently disputes it is the MP. There hasn't yet been any break in communion with Basil from the other Orthodox churches.<br />
<br />
<br />
I'm going to edit the article to reflect these items. &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>Dcn. Andrew</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Randompage|<font color="blue">random</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 16:06, August 6, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Lengthy canonical notes ==<br />
<br />
See my recent comments on [[Talk:Church of Constantinople]]. This stuff belongs over at the [[Prerogatives of the Ecumenical Patriarchate]] article. Its inclusion to this extent here is something of an imbalance and can be limited to just a summary sentence with a reference to the fuller article on the subject. &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</small> 06:21, March 30, 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Corrections to details on history between 2006-2007 ==<br />
<br />
I've made quite a few corrections and emendations to the sections of this article dealing with Bishop Basil's move from the MP to the EP. Much of the previous data was either inaccurate or outdated, so I've updated it with more accurate info and several new footnotes to cite the materials that are presented. &mdash;[[User:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="orange"><b>Antonios Aigyptos</b></font>]]<sup><i>[[User_talk:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]</i></sup> 13:45, May 14, 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: The tilt of this article has again shifted. :/ For instance, the claim is now made that +Basil sought to enter the EP without a release from Moscow, but it is generally known that the whole series of events came about precisely because of a request for a release from Moscow. I am not an expert on this subject, but from what I have read, it's my impression that a number of inaccuracies have now made their way into the article with the latest edits. (See the discussion above.) &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</small> 17:31, May 14, 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
Actually, Fr Andrew, this is a misconception that is promulgated in some circles. But the suspension of the bishop came not from his request for release, but from his requesting reception into a different patriarchate before release had been granted, and during a period when he was specifically instructed not to approach another patriarchate. This is witnessed by the correspondence, cited in the article. I'm not sure how this qualifies as either a "tilt" or an "inaccuracy"? &mdash;[[User:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="orange"><b>Antonios Aigyptos</b></font>]]<sup><i>[[User_talk:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]</i></sup> 00:49, May 15, 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
===Explanation of the timeline===<br />
<br />
Because some people are under false impressions about the timeline of events, it seems like a good idea to elaborate on them here in the Talk page, so people can determine what is "bias" or "tilt," and what is accurate telling of facts. Here is the timeline of the early months of the schism, with each element documented by letters, notices, ukazi, and so on:<br />
<br />
*10 April 2006 - Bishop Basil writes to Patriarch Alexii regarding the cathedral, expressing his "deepest loyalty".[http://www.sourozh.org/archives/docs/BB2Patr100406_en.html]<br />
*24 April 2006 - Bishop Basil writes to Patriarch Alexii, asking to be released and for the whole of the Diocese of Sourozh to follow him into a new diocese under the EP. [http://www.sourozh.org/archives/docs/BB2Patr240406_en.html]<br />
*2 May 2006 - Bishop Basil writes to the EP, asking to be received into a new diocese.[http://orthodoxe.free.fr/files/BBtoEcPatr01.pdf]<br />
*5 May 2006 - Patriarch Alexii writes back to Bishop Basil in response to his letter from the 24th, commenting on the disparity between the Bishop Basil's confessions of loyalty in his letter of 10 April, and his desire to leave the Russian Orthodox Church in the letter of the 24th. In this letter he recommends meeting together with Bishop Basil face-to-face to discuss his concerns.[http://www.sourozh.org/archives/docs/Patr2BB050506_en.html]<br />
*9 May 2006 - Subsequent to sending his letter of 5 May, Patriarch Alexii learns of Bishop Basil's letter to the EP, sent on the 2nd, in which Bishop Basil had formally and officially requested incardination into the EP without having obtained release from his own Patriarchate. In response, Patriarch Alexii withdraws the offer of a personal meeting and establishes a committee to look into the situation further; and the MP's Synod retires Bishop Basil pending this committee's investigation. This is laid out in [http://www.sourozh.org/archives/docs/ukazi_en.html Ukaz 3303 of 9 May], and is later re-affirmed and explained in [http://www.sourozh.org/archives/docs/synod070606_en.html Minute 31 of the Synod's meeting on 7 June 2006].<br />
*14 May 2006 - The decision of the MP Synod to remove Bishop Basil as administrator of Sourozh and retire him, and to appoint Archbishop Innokenty of Korsun as new temporary administrator of the diocese, is read aloud in the Diocece's Cathedral in London. Bishop Basil responds immediately, stating that he will appeal the MP's decision to the EP.[http://www.dioceseinfo.org/HISTORICAL_BACKGROUND/Sourozh/hbsindex.htm]<br />
*22 May 2006 - On learning that Bishop Basil, anticipating being retired or suspended by the MP for his actions, had either written in advance or backdated general 'letters of release' to all the clergy of the Diocese of Sourozh, which were not actually distributed until after his suspension but which carry dates marked before it, the newly-appointed temporary administrator of Sourozh, Archbishop Innokenty of Korsun, issues a letter outlining their invalidity.[http://www.sourozh.org/archives/letters/letter220506.html]<br />
*8 June 2006 - The Holy Synod of the EP votes to receive Bishop Basil based on his appeal, and names him Bishop of Amphipolis.<br />
*12 June 2006 - The Synod of the MP refuses to accept Bishop Basil's reception into the EP, on grounds that the EP's interpretations of the canons used in Bishop Basil's appeal were interpreted inappropriately. It summons him to appear at the MP Holy Synod's next meeting on 17 June.[http://www.mospat.ru/index.php?page=31763&lng=1] This meeting he does not attend.<br />
*19 July 2006 - The MP Synod meets and expresses its regret that Bishop Basil will not meet to discuss the situation. It once again summons him to a meeting. At this meeting the Synod hears the report of the commission established to investigate the situation.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/synod190706_en.html]<br />
<br />
It should be clear from this, and from reading the letters / documents cited for each item, that claims that ''"the whole series of events came about precisely because of a request for a release from Moscow"'' just aren't correct. &mdash;[[User:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="orange"><b>Antonios Aigyptos</b></font>]]<sup><i>[[User_talk:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]</i></sup> 11:13, May 15, 2007 (PDT)</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Talk:Basil_Osborne&diff=51255Talk:Basil Osborne2007-05-15T07:49:29Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: /* Corrections to details on history between 2006-2007 */ Notes on ASDamick's comments</p>
<hr />
<div>==Succession box==<br />
Regarding the ordering of the succession box, I had always assumed that it went from earliest resposibility to latest (see Abp [[Stylianos (Harkianakis) of Australia|Stylianos]] succession box). Have I been doing things wrongly and against OW protocol and procedure? &mdash; edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="red">Pι</font>]][[Special:Listusers/sysop|s]][[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="yellow">τ</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Pistevo|é]][[User:Pistevo|<font color="blue">vο</font>]] at 04:23, June 9, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
: I think maybe you're right. Of course, the fact that I'm not 100% certain means I probably have been inconsistent. Still, a quick glance at a couple big names shows what you describe as the norm. Fixed! &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>Dcn. Andrew</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Randompage|<font color="blue">random</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 06:33, June 9, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Various recent edits ==<br />
<br />
I think that there's a factual problem with the timeline regarding the forced retirement. Bp. Basil was retired not because he tried to be received by the EP without a canonical release; indeed, he asked for that release[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/BB2Patr240406_en.html] before he sent his letter to the EP. The reception without release occurred subsequent to the retirement and on the basis of the appeal that Basil made after his retirement was announced.<br />
<br />
The announcement of the retirement happened after Basil would not withdraw his letter to the EP, the text of which is explicit that Basil is requesting a canonical release from the MP ([http://orthodoxe.free.fr/files/BBtoEcPatr01.pdf read the letter here]). When Basil refused to withdraw this letter, he was retired. The question of reception without canonical release only came subsequently, after Basil appealed the decision by the MP to the EP.<br />
<br />
The actual order of events is why I edited the article the way I did. Based on the documents in question, it's incorrect to state that Bp. Basil was retired for seeking reception into the EP without a release. Rather, he was retired because he would not withdraw his letter to the EP which included explicit mention of his seeking a release. In essence, the MP did not want Basil even to be speaking with Constantinople about the question, but Basil said that it seemed foolish to request release to go to the EP without also asking the EP about it.<br />
<br />
<br />
Regarding the succession box, we don't put detailed information in them that's covered in the articles. This is related to the question of titles in general. OrthodoxWiki policy is generally to use the title for a person that he's using for himself (unless that title isn't remotely recognized by any Orthodox authority anywhere). A related example is [[Mstyslav (Skrypnyk) of Kiev]], whose position as patriarch of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church or even as a bishop of Kiev is completely unrecognized by anyone outside the [[Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church|UAOC]]. Yet we list this title not because OrthodoxWiki is recognizing it, but because it's the easiest referent for finding the entry.<br />
<br />
It's really not practicable for OrthodoxWiki to have to take into account every disputed title in terms of either naming articles or the shorthand that succession boxes are meant to be. Doing so would mean, for instance, a rather awkward revision for every article on a bishop who claims a title to a see in the USA.<br />
<br />
It is enough to note the dispute in the article text if it's notable. In this case, the dispute is notable, though the only church which currently disputes it is the MP. There hasn't yet been any break in communion with Basil from the other Orthodox churches.<br />
<br />
<br />
I'm going to edit the article to reflect these items. &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>Dcn. Andrew</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Randompage|<font color="blue">random</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 16:06, August 6, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Lengthy canonical notes ==<br />
<br />
See my recent comments on [[Talk:Church of Constantinople]]. This stuff belongs over at the [[Prerogatives of the Ecumenical Patriarchate]] article. Its inclusion to this extent here is something of an imbalance and can be limited to just a summary sentence with a reference to the fuller article on the subject. &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</small> 06:21, March 30, 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Corrections to details on history between 2006-2007 ==<br />
<br />
I've made quite a few corrections and emendations to the sections of this article dealing with Bishop Basil's move from the MP to the EP. Much of the previous data was either inaccurate or outdated, so I've updated it with more accurate info and several new footnotes to cite the materials that are presented. &mdash;[[User:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="orange"><b>Antonios Aigyptos</b></font>]]<sup><i>[[User_talk:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]</i></sup> 13:45, May 14, 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: The tilt of this article has again shifted. :/ For instance, the claim is now made that +Basil sought to enter the EP without a release from Moscow, but it is generally known that the whole series of events came about precisely because of a request for a release from Moscow. I am not an expert on this subject, but from what I have read, it's my impression that a number of inaccuracies have now made their way into the article with the latest edits. (See the discussion above.) &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</small> 17:31, May 14, 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
Actually, Fr Andrew, this is a misconception that is promulgated in some circles. But the suspension of the bishop came not from his request for release, but from his requesting reception into a different patriarchate before release had been granted, and during a period when he was specifically instructed not to approach another patriarchate. This is witnessed by the correspondence, cited in the article. I'm not sure how this qualifies as either a "tilt" or an "inaccuracy"? &mdash;[[User:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="orange"><b>Antonios Aigyptos</b></font>]]<sup><i>[[User_talk:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]</i></sup> 00:49, May 15, 2007 (PDT)</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Talk:Basil_Osborne&diff=51245Talk:Basil Osborne2007-05-14T20:45:54Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: Corrections to details on history between 2006-2007</p>
<hr />
<div>==Succession box==<br />
Regarding the ordering of the succession box, I had always assumed that it went from earliest resposibility to latest (see Abp [[Stylianos (Harkianakis) of Australia|Stylianos]] succession box). Have I been doing things wrongly and against OW protocol and procedure? &mdash; edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="red">Pι</font>]][[Special:Listusers/sysop|s]][[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="yellow">τ</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Pistevo|é]][[User:Pistevo|<font color="blue">vο</font>]] at 04:23, June 9, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
: I think maybe you're right. Of course, the fact that I'm not 100% certain means I probably have been inconsistent. Still, a quick glance at a couple big names shows what you describe as the norm. Fixed! &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>Dcn. Andrew</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Randompage|<font color="blue">random</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 06:33, June 9, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Various recent edits ==<br />
<br />
I think that there's a factual problem with the timeline regarding the forced retirement. Bp. Basil was retired not because he tried to be received by the EP without a canonical release; indeed, he asked for that release[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/BB2Patr240406_en.html] before he sent his letter to the EP. The reception without release occurred subsequent to the retirement and on the basis of the appeal that Basil made after his retirement was announced.<br />
<br />
The announcement of the retirement happened after Basil would not withdraw his letter to the EP, the text of which is explicit that Basil is requesting a canonical release from the MP ([http://orthodoxe.free.fr/files/BBtoEcPatr01.pdf read the letter here]). When Basil refused to withdraw this letter, he was retired. The question of reception without canonical release only came subsequently, after Basil appealed the decision by the MP to the EP.<br />
<br />
The actual order of events is why I edited the article the way I did. Based on the documents in question, it's incorrect to state that Bp. Basil was retired for seeking reception into the EP without a release. Rather, he was retired because he would not withdraw his letter to the EP which included explicit mention of his seeking a release. In essence, the MP did not want Basil even to be speaking with Constantinople about the question, but Basil said that it seemed foolish to request release to go to the EP without also asking the EP about it.<br />
<br />
<br />
Regarding the succession box, we don't put detailed information in them that's covered in the articles. This is related to the question of titles in general. OrthodoxWiki policy is generally to use the title for a person that he's using for himself (unless that title isn't remotely recognized by any Orthodox authority anywhere). A related example is [[Mstyslav (Skrypnyk) of Kiev]], whose position as patriarch of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church or even as a bishop of Kiev is completely unrecognized by anyone outside the [[Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church|UAOC]]. Yet we list this title not because OrthodoxWiki is recognizing it, but because it's the easiest referent for finding the entry.<br />
<br />
It's really not practicable for OrthodoxWiki to have to take into account every disputed title in terms of either naming articles or the shorthand that succession boxes are meant to be. Doing so would mean, for instance, a rather awkward revision for every article on a bishop who claims a title to a see in the USA.<br />
<br />
It is enough to note the dispute in the article text if it's notable. In this case, the dispute is notable, though the only church which currently disputes it is the MP. There hasn't yet been any break in communion with Basil from the other Orthodox churches.<br />
<br />
<br />
I'm going to edit the article to reflect these items. &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>Dcn. Andrew</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Randompage|<font color="blue">random</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 16:06, August 6, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Lengthy canonical notes ==<br />
<br />
See my recent comments on [[Talk:Church of Constantinople]]. This stuff belongs over at the [[Prerogatives of the Ecumenical Patriarchate]] article. Its inclusion to this extent here is something of an imbalance and can be limited to just a summary sentence with a reference to the fuller article on the subject. &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</small> 06:21, March 30, 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Corrections to details on history between 2006-2007 ==<br />
<br />
I've made quite a few corrections and emendations to the sections of this article dealing with Bishop Basil's move from the MP to the EP. Much of the previous data was either inaccurate or outdated, so I've updated it with more accurate info and several new footnotes to cite the materials that are presented. &mdash;[[User:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="orange"><b>Antonios Aigyptos</b></font>]]<sup><i>[[User_talk:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]</i></sup> 13:45, May 14, 2007 (PDT)</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Basil_Osborne&diff=51244Basil Osborne2007-05-14T20:43:03Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: Numerous corrections of fact to the sections on MP/EP relations and the intricacies of Bishop Basil's history; added several new footnotes as citations.</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Basil Osborne.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Bishop Basil (Osborne)]]<br />
His Grace the Right Reverend Bishop '''Basil (Osborne) of Amphipolis''' is a [[titular bishop]] under the [[Ecumenical Patriarchate]] and is formally known as one of "the bishops of the Throne." He serves as an assistant bishop in its [[Patriarchal Exarchate for Orthodox Parishes of Russian Tradition in Western Europe]], charged with the care of its flock in Great Britain and Ireland. He previously served as the temporary administrator of the [[Moscow Patriarchate]]'s [[Diocese of Sourozh]] (August 2003 - May 2006) with the title ''Bishop of Sergievo''. <br />
<br />
In his position in the Ecumenical Patriarchate's Exarchate in Western Europe, Bishop Basil's authority is over a newly-formed vicariate of parishes in the British Isles entitled the [[Episcopal Vicariate of Great Britain and Ireland]], which currently consists of a small number of parishes and some smaller Eucharistic Communities that elected to follow him in his departure from the Diocese of Sourozh (these are enumerated and discussed [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episcopal_Vicariate_of_Great_Britain_and_Ireland#Parishes_and_Communities here]).<ref>[http://www.exarchate-uk.org/Parishes/parishes_index.html Parishes of the Vicariate]</ref> As part of this role, he sits on the council of the Exarchate.<ref>[http://www.exarchat.org/article.php3?id_article=563 Communiqué N° 12-06 du Conseil de l'Archevêché et Déclaration]</ref><br />
<br />
He was forcibly retired from his position as administrator of the Sourozh diocese after seeking incardination into the Ecumenical Patriarchate without receiving release from Moscow.<ref name="Innokenty1">[http://www.sourozh.org/info/letters/letter230706.html Letter "To all the clergy and faithful of the Diocese of Sourozh"] - Abp. Innokenty of Korsun, July 23, 2006</ref> In a letter sent to the Patriarch of Moscow without notice to his clergy, Bishop Basil requested that he and the whole of the Diocese of Sourozh (and not simply those members who wished to follow him) be released from the jurisdiction of the Moscow Patriarchate, to be received into the jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarch as a new diocese existing alongside Constantinople's Patriarchal Exarchate for Orthodox Parishes of Russian Tradition in Western Europe.<ref>See Bishop Basil's letter of 24 April, 2006.[http://www.sourozh.org/archives/docs/BB2Patr240406_en.html] On taking this decision without consulting his clergy or diocesan council, see his statements online.[http://www.dioceseinfo.org/DOCUMENTS/Diocese/BB160506.htm]</ref> Without awaiting a full response from the Patriarchate of Moscow, he wrote to the Ecumenical Patriarch on May 2, 2006, again repeating his desire to establish a new diocese under Constantinople.<ref>So the text of his brief letter to the Ecumenical Patriarchate.[http://orthodoxe.free.fr/files/BBtoEcPatr01.pdf] In this letter, unlike his original letter to the Moscow Patriarchate, he indicates that the new diocese would be made up of himself, "together with those clergy and parishes that wish to follow me."</ref> Announcement of Bishop Basil's retirement by the Synod of Moscow followed upon his refusal to withdraw this letter to Constantinople. Following announcement of his retirement in the Sourozh cathedral in London, Basil immediately appealed the decision to the Ecumenical Patriarchate on the basis of Canons 9 and 17 of the [[Fourth Ecumenical Council]] and also Canon 28 of the same Council. Such canons, some argue, endow the Constantinopolitan Patriarch with the privilege of the "ekkliton" (read, hearing appeal) and granting it jurisdiction over regions not already subject to the other four senior Patriarchates, Rome, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem. It should be noted, however, that this interpretation of these canons is not undisputed, and runs contrary to the classical interpretations of the canons found in the canonical commentaries of the Church.<ref>For a canonical commentary on this canon, see: [[Prerogatives of the Ecumenical Patriarchate]]. As an example of the variances in interpretation, regarding Canon 9 of Chalcedon, St. Nicodemos of the Holy Mountain comments: "[This canon] did not say that if any clergyman has a dispute or difference with the Metropolitan of any diocese or parish whatever, they must be tried before the Bishop of Constantinople…." Zonaras likewise says that the Bishop of Constantinople is not necessarily entitled to sit as judge over all Metropolitans, but (only) over those who are judicially subject to him, and that "The Bishop of Constantinople must hear the appeals only of those who are subject to the Bishop of Constantinople, precisely as the Bishop of Rome must hear the appeals only of those who are subject to the Bishop of Rome." In D. Cummings, trans., ''The Rudder of the Orthodox Catholic Church: The Compilation of the Holy Canons Saints Nicodemus and Agapius'' (West Brookfield, MA: The Orthodox Christian Educational Society, 1983), p. 255.</ref> <br />
<br />
The Ecumenical Patriarchate subsequently accepted Bishop Basil into its jurisdiction on the basis of his appeal which followed, although Moscow had not issued a canonical release and had instructed him not to be received into another patriarchate until matters could be looked into by an appropriate commission. Additionally, it requested his presence in person numerous times, which Bishop Basil refused to heed on all occasions, instructing others to do likewise.<ref>Facts that were eventually reported by the [http://www.sourozh.org/archives/docs/commission_en.html commission established to investigate the issue]. This report also noted the bishop's use of the internet to propagate information on the disputes outside of official channels.</ref> Given these circumstances, the Moscow Patriarchate did not regard his incardination into the Ecumenical Patriarchate as valid, nor did it recognize the title ''Bishop of Amphipolis'' given to him by the Holy Synod of the Patriarchate of Constantinople on [[June 8]], 2006.<ref>[http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=en&id=678&tla=en Press Release for the Election of Bishop Basil of Amphipolis] - Ecumenical Patriarchate, June 8, 2006</ref> Considering him still a bishop of the Russian Orthodox Church, but in retirement, it referred to him in official correspondence without titular connection, as 'The Right Reverend Bishop Basil (Osborne)'.<ref name="MP1">[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/synod190706_en.html Decision of the Holy Synod concerning Bishop Basil (Osborne)] - Moscow Patriarchate, July 19, 2006</ref> Similarly, it did not regard as valid the 'letters of release' issued by Bishop Basil to all his former clergy in the Diocese of Sourozh - letters either backdated or prepared earlier, in early February.<ref>As noted in a [http://www.sourozh.org/archives/letters/letter220506.html Letter by Archbishop Innokenty] - 22 May 2006.</ref> Bishop Basil was summoned to appear before the MP synod on July 17,<ref>[http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=1559 Russian Church: It considers Osborn's move to Constantinople's jurisdiction invalid as he is still one of its bishops fax, June 14, 2006</ref> Bishop Basil declined to appear. From 19 July 2006 the Synod of the Moscow Patriarchate placed him under temporary suspension, forbidding him 'from celebrating divine services until his repentance or until the decision of the matter by a court of bishops'.<ref name="MP1" /><br />
<br />
The resolutions of the Moscow Patriarchate of [[July 19]], 2006, therefore made Bishop Basil's canonical stature a matter of intense dispute between Moscow and Constantinople. According to the Ecumenical Patriarchate, Basil could legitimately celebrate as a bishop; according to Moscow, he was forbidden to do so. Accordingly, no communicant of the Moscow Patriarchate who wished to remain faithful to the decisions of his hierarchy could knowingly participate in a Liturgy at which Basil celebrated as a bishop, nor could they receive Holy Communion from him. Similarly, after these resolutions, no Moscow Patriarchate priest could[[concelebration|concelebrate]] with Basil.<ref name="Innokenty1" /><br />
<br />
The ancient Patriarchates of [[Church of Alexandria|Alexandria]] ([[June 19]], 2006)<ref>[http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=698&tla=gr Letter from Pope of Alexandria concerning Bp. Basil Osborne] - June 19, 2006</ref> and [[Church of Jerusalem|Jerusalem]] ([[June 6]])<ref>[http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=697&tla=gr Letter from Patriarch of Jerusalem concerning Bp. Basil Osborne] - June 6, 2006</ref>, along with the [[Church of Cyprus]] ([[June 14]])<ref>[http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=699&tla=gr Letter from ''locum tenens'' of the Archbishop of Cyprus concerning Bp. Basil Osborne] - June 14, 2006</ref> and the [[Church of Albania]] ([[August 12]])<ref>[http://www.exarchate-uk.org/News/anastasios.html Circular Letter from the Primate of the Orthodox Church of Albania on the subject of the election of Bishop Basil, addressed to His All-Holiness the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew II] - August 12, 2006</ref>, later confirmed their support of the Ecumenical Patriarchate's authority to act in the manner that it had.<ref>Refer to ORDOs of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, the latest being that of 2006, for the official designation of titular bishops as "bishops/hierarchs" of the "Throne" and to the text of canons 9, 17 and 28 for the rights and privileges of Constantinople regarding extraterritorial appeals and jurisdiction in the "varvariki", regions beyond the borders of the other senior patriarchates.</ref><br />
<br />
In March of 2007 negotiations took place in Geneva between representatives of the two patriarchates. These concluded with the Holy Synod of the Moscow Patriarchate releasing Bishop Basil from its jurisdiction on March 27. Commenting to the media on the synod's decision, Metropolitan Kyrill of Smolensk and Kaliningrad, chairman of the Moscow Patriarchate's Department of External Church Relations, "The problem arose because Bishop Basil went over to Constantinople illegally, without any request from Constantinople and without any consent from the Moscow Patriarchate. Now Constantinople has requested his documents, which customarily include a letter of release. This means that the Moscow Patriarchate has granted Bishop Basil a canonical leave".<ref>So the [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=2812 report of the Metropolitan's remarks by Interfax], also available [http://www.interfax-religion.ru/?act=news&div=17389 in Russian].</ref> <br />
<br />
{{start box}}<br />
{{succession|<br />
before=[[Anthony (Bloom) of Sourozh|Anthony (Bloom)]]|<br />
title=Bishop of Sergievo,<br>Administrator of the [[Diocese of Sourozh]]|<br />
years=2003-2006|<br />
after=[[Innokenty (Vasilyev) of Korsun|Innokenty (Vasilyev)]]}}<br />
{{succession|<br />
before=?|<br />
title=Bishop of Amphipolis|<br />
years=2006-present|<br />
after=&mdash;}}<br />
{{end box}}<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
<div class="references-small"><br />
<small><references /></small><br />
</div><br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://www.exarchate-uk.org/ Episcopal Vicariate of Great Britain and Ireland]<br />
*[http://www.exarchat.org/article.php3?id_article=564 Biography of Bishop Basil] on the Exarchate's homepage<br />
*[[Wikipedia:Russian Orthodox Diocese of Sourozh]] in which Bishop Basil formerly served, containing information on his departure from that diocese<br />
<br />
[[Category:Bishops]]</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Basil_Osborne&diff=51243Basil Osborne2007-05-14T20:11:39Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: Rem'd some redundant lang.; corrected title to 'Asst Bp' (as used by his exarchate). Factual corrections to nature of suspension. Minor grammar edits.</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Basil Osborne.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Bishop Basil (Osborne)]]<br />
His Grace the Right Reverend Bishop '''Basil (Osborne) of Amphipolis''' is a [[titular bishop]] under the [[Ecumenical Patriarchate]] and is formally known as one of "the bishops of the Throne." He serves as an assistant bishop in its [[Patriarchal Exarchate for Orthodox Parishes of Russian Tradition in Western Europe]], charged with the care of its flock in Great Britain and Ireland. He previously served as the temporary administrator of the [[Moscow Patriarchate]]'s [[Diocese of Sourozh]] (August 2003 - May 2006) with the title ''Bishop of Sergievo''. <br />
<br />
In his position in the Ecumenical Patriarchate's Exarchate in Western Europe, Bishop Basil's authority is over a newly-formed vicariate of parishes in the British Isles entitled the [[Episcopal Vicariate of Great Britain and Ireland]], which currently consists of a small number of parishes and some smaller Eucharistic Communities that elected to follow him in his departure from the Diocese of Sourozh (these are enumerated and discussed [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episcopal_Vicariate_of_Great_Britain_and_Ireland#Parishes_and_Communities here]).<ref>[http://www.exarchate-uk.org/Parishes/parishes_index.html Parishes of the Vicariate]</ref> As part of this role, he sits on the council of the Exarchate.<ref>[http://www.exarchat.org/article.php3?id_article=563 Communiqué N° 12-06 du Conseil de l'Archevêché et Déclaration]</ref><br />
<br />
He was forcibly retired from his position as administrator of the Sourozh diocese after seeking incardination into the Ecumenical Patriarchate without receiving release from Moscow, taking with him those of his flock who wished to follow him.<ref name="Innokenty1">[http://www.sourozh.org/info/letters/letter230706.html Letter "To all the clergy and faithful of the Diocese of Sourozh"] - Abp. Innokenty of Korsun, July 23, 2006</ref> The announcement of his retirement came upon his refusal to withdraw his letter to Constantinople (sent after his request for release from Moscow) which requested incardination and noted his request for release from Moscow.<ref>[http://orthodoxe.free.fr/files/BBtoEcPatr01.pdf Letter to Patriarch Bartholomew I] - Bp. Basil (Osborne), May 2, 2006</ref> After his forced retirement was announced in the Sourozh cathedral in London, Basil immediately appealed the decision to the Ecumenical Patriarchate on the basis of Canons 9 and 17 of the [[Fourth Ecumenical Council]] and also Canon 28 of the same Council, such canons <ref>For a canonical commentary on this canon, see: [[Prerogatives of the Ecumenical Patriarchate]]</ref>, it is argued, endows the Constantinopolitan Patriarch with the privilege of the "ekkliton" (read, hearing appeal) and granting it jurisdiction over regions not already subject to the other four senior Patriarchates, Rome, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem. It should be noted, however, that this interpretation of these canons is not undisputed, and runs contrary to the classical interpretations of the canons found in the canonical commentaries of the Church. For example, regarding Canon 9 of Chalcedon, St. Nicodemos of the Holy Mountain comments: "[This canon] did not say that if any clergyman has a dispute or difference with the Metropolitan of any diocese or parish whatever, they must be tried before the Bishop of Constantinople…." Zonaras likewise says that the Bishop of Constantinople is not necessarily entitled to sit as judge over all Metropolitans, but (only) over those who are judicially subject to him, and that "The Bishop of Constantinople must hear the appeals only of those who are subject to the Bishop of Constantinople, precisely as the Bishop of Rome must hear the appeals only of those who are subject to the Bishop of Rome." <ref>D. Cummings, trans., ''The Rudder of the Orthodox Catholic Church: The Compilation of the Holy Canons Saints Nicodemus and Agapius'' (West Brookfield, MA: The Orthodox Christian Educational Society, 1983), p. 255.</ref> <br />
<br />
The Ecumenical Patriarchate subsequently accepted Bishop Basil into its jurisdiction on the basis of his appeal which followed, although Moscow had not issued a canonical release and had instructed him not to be received into another patriarchate until matters could be looked into by an appropriate commission. At the time, the Moscow Patriarchate does not regard his incardination into the Ecumenical Patriarchate as valid, nor did it recognize the title ''Bishop of Amphipolis'' given to him by the Holy Synod of the Patriarchate of Constantinople on [[June 8]], 2006.<ref>[http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=en&id=678&tla=en Press Release for the Election of Bishop Basil of Amphipolis] - Ecumenical Patriarchate, June 8, 2006</ref> Considering him still a bishop of the Russian Orthodox Church, but in retirement, it referred to him in official correspondence without titular connection, as 'The Right Reverend Bishop Basil (Osborne)'.<ref name="MP1">[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/synod190706_en.html Decision of the Holy Synod concerning Bishop Basil (Osborne)] - Moscow Patriarchate, July 19, 2006</ref> <br />
<br />
At least by implication the Moscow Patriarchate did not recognize the act of Constantinople in accepting Basil, and regarded him as remaining under its jurisdiction. [[Holy Synod]] on [[June 13]], 2006. Bishop Basil was summoned to appear before the MP synod on July 17,<ref>[http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=1559 Russian Church: It considers Osborn's move to Constantinople's jurisdiction invalid as he is still one of its bishops fax, June 14, 2006</ref> Bishop Basil declined to appear. Since 19 July 2006 the Synod of the Moscow Patriarchate had placed him under temporary suspension, forbidding him 'from celebrating divine services until his repentance or until the decision of the matter by a court of bishops'.<ref name="MP1" /><br />
<br />
The resolutions of the Moscow Patriarchate of the [[July 19]], 2006, made Bp. Basil's canonical stature a matter of intense dispute between Moscow and Constantinople. According to the Ecumenical Patriarchate, Basil could legitimately celebrate as a bishop; according to Moscow, he was forbidden to do so. Accordingly, no communicant of the Moscow Patriarchate who wishes to remain faithful to the decisions of his hierarchy may knowingly participate in a liturgy at which Basil celebrates as a bishop, nor may they receive Holy Communion from him. Similarly, after these resolutions, no Moscow Patriarchate priest may [[concelebration|concelebrate]] with Basil.<ref name="Innokenty1" /><br />
<br />
The ancient Patriarchates of [[Church of Alexandria|Alexandria]] ([[June 19]], 2006)<ref>[http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=698&tla=gr Letter from Pope of Alexandria concerning Bp. Basil Osborne] - June 19, 2006</ref> and [[Church of Jerusalem|Jerusalem]] ([[June 6]])<ref>[http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=697&tla=gr Letter from Patriarch of Jerusalem concerning Bp. Basil Osborne] - June 6, 2006</ref>, along with the [[Church of Cyprus]] ([[June 14]])<ref>[http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=699&tla=gr Letter from ''locum tenens'' of the Archbishop of Cyprus concerning Bp. Basil Osborne] - June 14, 2006</ref> and the [[Church of Albania]] ([[August 12]])<ref>[http://www.exarchate-uk.org/News/anastasios.html Circular Letter from the Primate of the Orthodox Church of Albania on the subject of the election of Bishop Basil, addressed to His All-Holiness the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew II] - August 12, 2006</ref>, have recognized the reception by Constantinople of Bp. Basil. <br />
<br />
(Refer to ORDOs of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, the latest being that of 2006, for the official designation of titular bishops as "bishops/hierarchs" of the "Throne" and to the text of canons 9, 17 and 28 for the rights and privileges of Constantinople regarding extraterritorial appeals and jurisdiction in the "varvariki", regions beyond the borders of the other senior patriarchates.)<br />
<br />
In March of 2007 negotiations took place in Geneva which concluded with Moscow giving Basil a [[canonical release]] to the jurisdiction of Constantinople.<ref>[http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=2812 Canonical conflict over Bishop Basil Osborn’s going over to Constantinople settled - Metropolitan Kirill]</ref> <br />
<br />
{{start box}}<br />
{{succession|<br />
before=[[Anthony (Bloom) of Sourozh|Anthony (Bloom)]]|<br />
title=Bishop of Sergievo,<br>Administrator of the [[Diocese of Sourozh]]|<br />
years=2003-2006|<br />
after=[[Innokenty (Vasilyev) of Korsun|Innokenty (Vasilyev)]]}}<br />
{{succession|<br />
before=?|<br />
title=Bishop of Amphipolis|<br />
years=2006-present|<br />
after=&mdash;}}<br />
{{end box}}<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
<div class="references-small"><br />
<small><references /></small><br />
</div><br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://www.exarchate-uk.org/ Episcopal Vicariate of Great Britain and Ireland]<br />
*[http://www.exarchat.org/article.php3?id_article=564 Biography of Bishop Basil] on the Exarchate's homepage<br />
*[[Wikipedia:Russian Orthodox Diocese of Sourozh]] in which Bishop Basil formerly served, containing information on his departure from that diocese<br />
<br />
[[Category:Bishops]]</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:FrJohn&diff=39457User talk:FrJohn2006-09-04T22:17:00Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: /* Dcn ASDamick? */</p>
<hr />
<div><div id="shortcut" style="border: 1px solid #CC9; margin: 0em 1em 0em 1em; text-align: center; padding:5px; clear: both; background-color:#F1F1DE"><br />
''Welcome to my discussion page. Please post new messages to the bottom of the page and use headings when starting new discussion topics.<br> Please also sign and date your entries by inserting '''<nowiki>- ~~~~</nowiki>''' at the end. Thank you.<br>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} Start a new discussion topic.]''<br />
----<br />
''[[/archived discussion 1]] (through 09-07-2005)''<br><br />
''[[/archived discussion 2]] (through 11-20-2005)''<br><br />
''[[/archived discussion 3]] (through 05-24-2006)''<br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Protest ==<br />
<br />
Fr. John,<br />
I published my article on Hebrew Catholics in the Orthodox Wiki portal for two reasons, the first is I couldn't log in the General Wikipedia and the second because it is related to an Eastern spirituality. You said you deleted it because it is not convenient for your site, i mean, you consider it not appropriate. So, where is the information right for your believers and anybody else? Where is the Christian spirit you proclaim? I don't pretend to alien or romanize the Orthodoxy, as i understand we are from the same Apostolic root. Where is the final period for a real unity? When until are the Latin and Orthodox fighting for little things?<br />
I'm a great admiror of the Eastern culture and its ritual traditions. I respect and support the diversity in the Church of Christ. I believe in the unity but not the uniformity. So, if you could see i look for the defined identities from the peoples.<small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Levikahano|Levikahano]] ([[User talk:Levikahano|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Levikahano|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><br />
<br />
::Hi Levikahano, It's not right for OrthodoxWiki because it deals with a Roman Catholic group. I'm not saying the group isn't important or that we may share many things, but this generally isn't in the scope of material that we would include here. I would encourage you to put it on a Catholic wiki, or even on Wikipedia. May God bless you. {{User:FrJohn/sig}}<br />
<br />
== Deletes and undeletes? ==<br />
<br />
I'm curious as to what exactly you're doing. Are you trying to erase article histories to remove direct evidence of vandalism? If so, it makes examining the legitimate part of the histories somewhat difficult... :/ &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>Dcn. Andrew</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Randompage|<font color="blue">random</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 16:03, June 3, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Book sources page formatting ==<br />
<br />
There are HTML formatting problems on the [[Special:Booksources]] page. (after the ISBN number is entered) This once worked but now does not. There is no way for me to fix it, so I'll just report it. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 12:57, June 13, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:I went ahead and wikified the page. Is there a particular reason why the html formatting no longer works? —[[User:Magda|<b>magda</b>]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 13:09, June 13, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::Hmm... probably has to do with the upgrade to 1.6. I'm out of town now, but I'll try to have a look next week when I get back. [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]<br />
<br />
==Name blocks==<br />
Are we able to block certain usernames from being used? Right now, the system of renaming has its advantages in the history section of vandalised articles, but the same usernames can still be reused - can we put, say, a '*vandal*' block up? &mdash; edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="red">Pι</font>]][[Special:Listusers/sysop|s]][[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="yellow">τ</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Pistevo|é]][[User:Pistevo|<font color="blue">vο</font>]] at 21:57, June 16, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:I think it's possible, but I'll have to refresh my memory on this. Let me try to look at this later in the week. [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]<br />
::It is, you need [[:metawikipedia:Username Blacklist|this]] extension. [[User:Gregg|Gregg]] 15:40, June 17, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:::Thanks Gregg! That makes it easy. {{User:FrJohn/sig}}<br />
:::P.S. If anyone has an idea what should be blocked, please send me an email.<br />
<br />
== Hello, Father ==<br />
<br />
Thanks for the message. I'm a php programmer. I'm mystified by wiki, but I'll figure it out.<small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Rightwingprof|Rightwingprof]] ([[User talk:Rightwingprof|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Rightwingprof|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><br />
<br />
==Re:==<br />
<br />
Thanks, not sure how much I can, or will contribute, but hey, maybe I will learn something.<br />
<small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Mmatga2me99|Mmatga2me99]] ([[User talk:Mmatga2me99|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mmatga2me99|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><br />
<br />
== Thank you for the welcome ==<br />
<br />
Dear Fr John,<br />
<br />
Thank you for the kind welcome. Much appreciated. It's nice to be here. -[[User:Antonios aigyptos|Antonios]] 15:27, August 5, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Sysop ==<br />
<br />
Thank you, Father John. I find it a pleasure to accept your invitation. I wouldn't do too well on handling theological subject, but history, etc. and sounding off on non-theological subject I can do.<br />
<br />
I had been meaning to e-mailing you on the subject of sound (audio) lifes, but have kept putting it off. I have a recording of my father-in-law's choir (Victor Pokrovsky) that I recorded at Nicolai-do in 1957 and have wondered if you want to place audio files on Orthodoxwiki. I have the file in two formats, AIFF Audio file and MP3 Audio file. I know the perferred format is 'OGG' but so far I haven't found the means to convert it. The file is short, 11 minutes, but of course is a large, 112MB and 127 MB. There is a slight pause at about a one third point for a shorter version.<br />
<br />
I can send the file to you if you have access to a means to convert the file, when I get to a high speed connection. I'm on dial-up. Or less I could just up-load load one of the two versions I have.[[User:Wsk|Wsk]] 20:28, August 10, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::Hi Bill, Of course it's a nice addition, but sysops generally aren't the ones to do the heavy theological writing. Mainly they're just empowered to do a few extra things for the good of the order. Thanks for accepting!<br />
::You might not have noticed yet my very subtle announcement on the [[OrthodoxWiki:News|news page]] about [[osource:Main_Page|OrthodoxSource]], a new sister project to OrthodoxWiki (very much in ''alpha'' stage at this point, which is why the announcement wasn't more strongly stated). The audio recording you mentioned would be great on that site - it's exactly the kind of thing I envisioned it for actually. <br />
::I haven't worked out what to do with large media files yet. There's a few possibilities, including using a free third-party service like [http://ourmedia.org OurMedia]. I think I'd rather keep more direct control of the archives though, so I'm thinking about using something like Amazon's S3 service, which is totally scalable. The downside is that I'd have to ask for donations to cover some of the (relatively minimal, at least initially) cost. We have room to grow on the server we're on, but I don't want to overwhelm things, especially if our media hosting grows, as I hope it will.<br />
::In terms of formats, I envision being much less strict than Wikimedia Commons - my concern would be less for openness of the format than for general accessibility. In this regard AIFF/MP3 are hard to beat. Maybe the easiest thing to do would be to email you with an FTP login, then you can upload the files at your leisure. Does that sound ok? [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]] 21:50, August 10, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
Your offer, Fr. John, sounds very good. I received your e-mail and now I will send the file as soon as I learn to use the File Transfer Protocol (FTP). This is a first for me. The OrthodxSource sounds like a great addition.[[User:Wsk|Wsk]] 20:10, August 15, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Sysop invite ==<br />
<br />
Why, thank you, Father. I'd certainly like to help. My technical/wiki mark-up skills may not be that great, but I'm willing to do anything I can. Just tell me what I need to do next. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 22:47, August 10, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:Thanks for accepting, Gabriela. You've got enough down, and I'm sure you can keep learning. I'll send you an invite to the Sysop list. You can look over the archives if you want to get an idea of where we have been. [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]<br />
<br />
== become an OrthodoxWiki sysop ==<br />
<br />
Thank you for the invite Father John, I'd be glad to help when I can. I am going to be busy for the next few weeks, but then I'll be able to give it more time. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 20:05, August 14, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
==Contributed articles==<br />
I've forgotten - are contributed articles supposed to be within the normal OW space, or is there a special place set aside for them? &mdash; edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="green">Pιs</font><font color="gold">τévο</font>]] <sup>''[[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|<font color="red">complaints</font>]]''</sup> at 03:19, September 1, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:Hi Pistevo, we're planning to move them all to OrthodoxSource. It hasn't really launched yet, so maybe we should just post it here with a <nowiki>{transfer}</nowiki> tag. — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])<br />
<br />
== Dcn ASDamick? ==<br />
<br />
Dear Fr John: I wonder if you know what's become of Deacon ASDamick? His user pages both here and on Wikipedia list him as departed indefinitely from the services; but as he was so active (I interacted more with him there than here, I do confess), I wonder what's happened? &mdash;[[User:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="orange"><b>Antonios Aigyptos</b></font>]]<sup><i>[[User_talk:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]</i></sup> 16:36, September 4, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::Hi, He's taking a (hopefully temporary) leave of absence for while. — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])<br />
<br />
Ah, I see. Well, as long as nothing's terribly wrong. From the on-line perspective, he's just up and vanished with no means of contact -- so one worries! &mdash;[[User:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="orange"><b>Antonios Aigyptos</b></font>]]<sup><i>[[User_talk:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]</i></sup> 17:17, September 4, 2006 (CDT)</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Antonios_aigyptos&diff=39444User:Antonios aigyptos2006-09-04T21:38:19Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: </p>
<hr />
<div>An active editor of many things Orthodox on Wikipedia (see [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Antonios_aigyptos my user page on Wikipedia]), and for some time behind the scenes here.</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:FrJohn&diff=39440User talk:FrJohn2006-09-04T21:36:34Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: Dcn ASDamick?</p>
<hr />
<div><div id="shortcut" style="border: 1px solid #CC9; margin: 0em 1em 0em 1em; text-align: center; padding:5px; clear: both; background-color:#F1F1DE"><br />
''Welcome to my discussion page. Please post new messages to the bottom of the page and use headings when starting new discussion topics.<br> Please also sign and date your entries by inserting '''<nowiki>- ~~~~</nowiki>''' at the end. Thank you.<br>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} Start a new discussion topic.]''<br />
----<br />
''[[/archived discussion 1]] (through 09-07-2005)''<br><br />
''[[/archived discussion 2]] (through 11-20-2005)''<br><br />
''[[/archived discussion 3]] (through 05-24-2006)''<br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Protest ==<br />
<br />
Fr. John,<br />
I published my article on Hebrew Catholics in the Orthodox Wiki portal for two reasons, the first is I couldn't log in the General Wikipedia and the second because it is related to an Eastern spirituality. You said you deleted it because it is not convenient for your site, i mean, you consider it not appropriate. So, where is the information right for your believers and anybody else? Where is the Christian spirit you proclaim? I don't pretend to alien or romanize the Orthodoxy, as i understand we are from the same Apostolic root. Where is the final period for a real unity? When until are the Latin and Orthodox fighting for little things?<br />
I'm a great admiror of the Eastern culture and its ritual traditions. I respect and support the diversity in the Church of Christ. I believe in the unity but not the uniformity. So, if you could see i look for the defined identities from the peoples.<small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Levikahano|Levikahano]] ([[User talk:Levikahano|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Levikahano|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><br />
<br />
::Hi Levikahano, It's not right for OrthodoxWiki because it deals with a Roman Catholic group. I'm not saying the group isn't important or that we may share many things, but this generally isn't in the scope of material that we would include here. I would encourage you to put it on a Catholic wiki, or even on Wikipedia. May God bless you. {{User:FrJohn/sig}}<br />
<br />
== Deletes and undeletes? ==<br />
<br />
I'm curious as to what exactly you're doing. Are you trying to erase article histories to remove direct evidence of vandalism? If so, it makes examining the legitimate part of the histories somewhat difficult... :/ &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>Dcn. Andrew</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Randompage|<font color="blue">random</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 16:03, June 3, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Book sources page formatting ==<br />
<br />
There are HTML formatting problems on the [[Special:Booksources]] page. (after the ISBN number is entered) This once worked but now does not. There is no way for me to fix it, so I'll just report it. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 12:57, June 13, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:I went ahead and wikified the page. Is there a particular reason why the html formatting no longer works? —[[User:Magda|<b>magda</b>]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 13:09, June 13, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::Hmm... probably has to do with the upgrade to 1.6. I'm out of town now, but I'll try to have a look next week when I get back. [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]<br />
<br />
==Name blocks==<br />
Are we able to block certain usernames from being used? Right now, the system of renaming has its advantages in the history section of vandalised articles, but the same usernames can still be reused - can we put, say, a '*vandal*' block up? &mdash; edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="red">Pι</font>]][[Special:Listusers/sysop|s]][[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="yellow">τ</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Pistevo|é]][[User:Pistevo|<font color="blue">vο</font>]] at 21:57, June 16, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:I think it's possible, but I'll have to refresh my memory on this. Let me try to look at this later in the week. [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]<br />
::It is, you need [[:metawikipedia:Username Blacklist|this]] extension. [[User:Gregg|Gregg]] 15:40, June 17, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:::Thanks Gregg! That makes it easy. {{User:FrJohn/sig}}<br />
:::P.S. If anyone has an idea what should be blocked, please send me an email.<br />
<br />
== Hello, Father ==<br />
<br />
Thanks for the message. I'm a php programmer. I'm mystified by wiki, but I'll figure it out.<small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Rightwingprof|Rightwingprof]] ([[User talk:Rightwingprof|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Rightwingprof|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><br />
<br />
==Re:==<br />
<br />
Thanks, not sure how much I can, or will contribute, but hey, maybe I will learn something.<br />
<small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Mmatga2me99|Mmatga2me99]] ([[User talk:Mmatga2me99|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mmatga2me99|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><br />
<br />
== Thank you for the welcome ==<br />
<br />
Dear Fr John,<br />
<br />
Thank you for the kind welcome. Much appreciated. It's nice to be here. -[[User:Antonios aigyptos|Antonios]] 15:27, August 5, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Sysop ==<br />
<br />
Thank you, Father John. I find it a pleasure to accept your invitation. I wouldn't do too well on handling theological subject, but history, etc. and sounding off on non-theological subject I can do.<br />
<br />
I had been meaning to e-mailing you on the subject of sound (audio) lifes, but have kept putting it off. I have a recording of my father-in-law's choir (Victor Pokrovsky) that I recorded at Nicolai-do in 1957 and have wondered if you want to place audio files on Orthodoxwiki. I have the file in two formats, AIFF Audio file and MP3 Audio file. I know the perferred format is 'OGG' but so far I haven't found the means to convert it. The file is short, 11 minutes, but of course is a large, 112MB and 127 MB. There is a slight pause at about a one third point for a shorter version.<br />
<br />
I can send the file to you if you have access to a means to convert the file, when I get to a high speed connection. I'm on dial-up. Or less I could just up-load load one of the two versions I have.[[User:Wsk|Wsk]] 20:28, August 10, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::Hi Bill, Of course it's a nice addition, but sysops generally aren't the ones to do the heavy theological writing. Mainly they're just empowered to do a few extra things for the good of the order. Thanks for accepting!<br />
::You might not have noticed yet my very subtle announcement on the [[OrthodoxWiki:News|news page]] about [[osource:Main_Page|OrthodoxSource]], a new sister project to OrthodoxWiki (very much in ''alpha'' stage at this point, which is why the announcement wasn't more strongly stated). The audio recording you mentioned would be great on that site - it's exactly the kind of thing I envisioned it for actually. <br />
::I haven't worked out what to do with large media files yet. There's a few possibilities, including using a free third-party service like [http://ourmedia.org OurMedia]. I think I'd rather keep more direct control of the archives though, so I'm thinking about using something like Amazon's S3 service, which is totally scalable. The downside is that I'd have to ask for donations to cover some of the (relatively minimal, at least initially) cost. We have room to grow on the server we're on, but I don't want to overwhelm things, especially if our media hosting grows, as I hope it will.<br />
::In terms of formats, I envision being much less strict than Wikimedia Commons - my concern would be less for openness of the format than for general accessibility. In this regard AIFF/MP3 are hard to beat. Maybe the easiest thing to do would be to email you with an FTP login, then you can upload the files at your leisure. Does that sound ok? [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]] 21:50, August 10, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
Your offer, Fr. John, sounds very good. I received your e-mail and now I will send the file as soon as I learn to use the File Transfer Protocol (FTP). This is a first for me. The OrthodxSource sounds like a great addition.[[User:Wsk|Wsk]] 20:10, August 15, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Sysop invite ==<br />
<br />
Why, thank you, Father. I'd certainly like to help. My technical/wiki mark-up skills may not be that great, but I'm willing to do anything I can. Just tell me what I need to do next. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 22:47, August 10, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:Thanks for accepting, Gabriela. You've got enough down, and I'm sure you can keep learning. I'll send you an invite to the Sysop list. You can look over the archives if you want to get an idea of where we have been. [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]<br />
<br />
== become an OrthodoxWiki sysop ==<br />
<br />
Thank you for the invite Father John, I'd be glad to help when I can. I am going to be busy for the next few weeks, but then I'll be able to give it more time. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 20:05, August 14, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
==Contributed articles==<br />
I've forgotten - are contributed articles supposed to be within the normal OW space, or is there a special place set aside for them? &mdash; edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="green">Pιs</font><font color="gold">τévο</font>]] <sup>''[[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|<font color="red">complaints</font>]]''</sup> at 03:19, September 1, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:Hi Pistevo, we're planning to move them all to OrthodoxSource. It hasn't really launched yet, so maybe we should just post it here with a <nowiki>{transfer}</nowiki> tag. — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])<br />
<br />
== Dcn ASDamick? ==<br />
<br />
Dear Fr John: I wonder if you know what's become of Deacon ASDamick? His user pages both here and on Wikipedia list him as departed indefinitely from the services; but as he was so active (I interacted more with him there than here, I do confess), I wonder what's happened? &mdash;[[User:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="orange"><b>Antonios Aigyptos</b></font>]]<sup><i>[[User_talk:Antonios_aigyptos|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]</i></sup> 16:36, September 4, 2006 (CDT)</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Basil_Osborne&diff=39339Basil Osborne2006-09-03T15:52:00Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: Correction to constitution of vicariate; added link to disc. of actual membership on Wiki.</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Basil Osborne.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Bishop Basil (Osborne)]]<br />
His Grace, the Right Reverend Bishop '''Basil (Osborne) of Amphipolis''' is an [[auxiliary bishop]] of the [[Ecumenical Patriarchate]], serving in its [[Patriarchal Exarchate for Orthodox Parishes of Russian Tradition in Western Europe]], charged with the care of its flock in Great Britain and Ireland. He previously served as the temporary administrator of the [[Moscow Patriarchate]]'s [[Diocese of Sourozh]] (August 2003 - May 2006) with the title ''Bishop of Sergievo''. <br />
<br />
In his position in the Ecumenical Patriarchate's Exarchate in Western Europe, Bishop Basil's authority is over a newly-formed vicariate of parishes in the British Isles entitled the [[Episcopal Vicariate of Great Britain and Ireland]], which currently consists of a small number of parishes and some smaller Eucharistic Communities that elected to follow him in his departure from the Diocese of Sourozh (these are enumerated and discussed [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episcopal_Vicariate_of_Great_Britain_and_Ireland#Parishes_and_Communities here]).<ref>[http://www.exarchate-uk.org/Parishes/parishes_index.html Parishes of the Vicariate]</ref> As part of this role, he sits on the council of the Exarchate.<ref>[http://www.exarchat.org/article.php3?id_article=563 Communiqué N° 12-06 du Conseil de l’Archevêché et Déclaration]</ref><br />
<br />
He was forcibly retired from his position as administrator of the Sourozh diocese after requesting release from Moscow and reception into the Ecumenical Patriarchate, along with those of his flock who wished to follow him.<ref name="Innokenty1">[http://www.sourozh.org/info/letters/letter230706.html Letter "To all the clergy and faithful of the Diocese of Sourozh"] - Abp. Innokenty of Korsun, July 23, 2006</ref> The announcement of his retirement came upon his refusal to withdraw his letter to Constantinople (sent after his request for release from Moscow) which requested reception and noted his request for release from Moscow.<ref>[http://orthodoxe.free.fr/files/BBtoEcPatr01.pdf Letter to Patriarch Bartholomew I] - Bp. Basil (Osborne), May 2, 2006</ref> After his forced retirement was announced in the Sourozh cathedral in London, Basil immediately appealed the decision to the Ecumenical Patriarchate on the basis of Canons 9 and 17 of the [[Fourth Ecumenical Council]].<br />
<br />
The Ecumenical Patriarchate subsequently received Basil on the basis of his appeal which followed the retirement, although Moscow had not issued a canonical release and had instructed him not to be received into another patriarchate until matters could be looked into by an appropriate commission. Consequently, the Moscow Patriarchate does not regard his reception into the Ecumenical Patriarchate as valid, nor does it recognize the title ''Bishop of Amphipolis'' given to him by the Holy Synod of the Patriarchate of Constantinople on [[June 8]], 2006.<ref>[http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=en&id=678&tla=en Press Release for the Election of Bishop Basil of Amphipolis] - Ecumenical Patriarchate, June 8, 2006</ref> Considering him still a bishop of the Russian Orthodox Church, now in retirement, it refers to him in official correspondence without titular connection, as 'The Right Reverend Bishop Basil (Osborne)'.<ref name="MP1">[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/synod190706_en.html Decision of the Holy Synod concerning Bishop Basil (Osborne)] - Moscow Patriarchate, July 19, 2006</ref> <br />
<br />
The Moscow Patriarchate does not recognize the act of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in receiving Basil, and still regards him as belonging to itself, announcing this decision of its [[Holy Synod]] on [[June 13]], 2006. Bishop Basil was summoned to appear before the MP synod on July 17,<ref>[http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=1559 Russian Church: Bishop Basil Osborn's move to Constantinople's jurisdiction invalid as he is still her bishop] - Interfax, June 14, 2006</ref> but declined to do so. Since 19 July 2006 the Synod of the Moscow Patriarchate has placed him under temporary suspension, forbidding him 'from celebrating divine services until his repentance or until the decision of the matter by a court of bishops'.<ref name="MP1" /><br />
<br />
The resolutions of the Moscow Patriarchate of the [[July 19]], 2006, make Bp. Basil's canonical stature a matter of intense dispute between Moscow and Constantinople. According to the Ecumenical Patriarchate, Basil may legitimately celebrate as a bishop; according to Moscow, he is forbidden to do so. Accordingly, no communicant of the Moscow Patriarchate who wishes to remain faithful to the decisions of his hierarchy may knowingly participate in a liturgy at which Basil celebrates as a bishop, nor may they receive Holy Communion from him. Similarly, after these resolutions, no Moscow Patriarchate priest may [[concelebration|concelebrate]] with Basil.<ref name="Innokenty1" /><br />
<br />
The ancient Patriarchates of [[Church of Alexandria|Alexandria]] ([[June 19]], 2006)<ref>[http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=698&tla=gr Letter from Pope of Alexandria concerning Bp. Basil Osborne] - June 19, 2006</ref> and [[Church of Jerusalem|Jerusalem]] ([[June 6]])<ref>[http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=697&tla=gr Letter from Patriarch of Jerusalem concerning Bp. Basil Osborne] - June 6, 2006</ref>, along with the [[Church of Cyprus]] ([[June 14]])<ref>[http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=699&tla=gr Letter from ''locum tenens'' of the Archbishop of Cyprus concerning Bp. Basil Osborne] - June 14, 2006</ref>, have recognized the reception by Constantinople of Bp. Basil (the latter doing so in extremely reserved terms, describing the option as the lesser of two evils<ref>[http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=699&tla=gr Letter from ''locum tenens'' of the Archbishop of Cyprus concerning Bp. Basil Osborne] - June 14, 2006</ref>). <br />
<br />
<br />
{{start box}}<br />
{{succession|<br />
before=[[Anthony (Bloom) of Sourozh|Anthony (Bloom)]]|<br />
title=Bishop of Sergievo,<br>Administrator of the [[Diocese of Sourozh]]|<br />
years=2003-2006|<br />
after=[[Innokenty (Vasilyev) of Korsun|Innokenty (Vasilyev)]]}}<br />
{{succession|<br />
before=?|<br />
title=Bishop of Amphipolis|<br />
years=2006-present|<br />
after=&mdash;}}<br />
{{end box}}<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
<div class="references-small"><br />
<small><references /></small><br />
</div><br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://www.exarchate-uk.org/ Episcopal Vicariate of Great Britain and Ireland]<br />
*[http://www.exarchat.org/article.php3?id_article=564 Biography of Bishop Basil] on the Exarchate's homepage<br />
*[[Wikipedia:Russian Orthodox Diocese of Sourozh]] in which Bishop Basil formerly served, containing information on his departure from that diocese<br />
<br />
[[Category:Bishops]]</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Basil_Osborne&diff=38747Basil Osborne2006-08-19T13:31:03Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: Added appropriate qualifiers to support given by various patriarchates.</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Basil Osborne.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Bishop Basil (Osborne)]]<br />
His Grace, the Right Reverend Bishop '''Basil (Osborne) of Amphipolis''' is an [[auxiliary bishop]] of the [[Ecumenical Patriarchate]], serving in its [[Patriarchal Exarchate for Orthodox Parishes of Russian Tradition in Western Europe]], charged with the care of its flock in Great Britain and Ireland. He previously served as the temporary administrator of the [[Moscow Patriarchate]]'s [[Diocese of Sourozh]] (August 2003 - May 2006) with the title ''Bishop of Sergievo''. <br />
<br />
In his position in the Ecumenical Patriarchate's Exarchate in Western Europe, Bishop Basil's authority is over a newly-formed vicariate of parishes in the British Isles entitled the [[Episcopal Vicariate of Great Britain and Ireland]], which currently consists of five parishes and four smaller Eucharistic Communities that elected to follow him in his departure from the Diocese of Sourozh.<ref>[http://www.exarchate-uk.org/Parishes/parishes_index.html Parishes of the Vicariate]</ref> As part of this role, he sits on the council of the Exarchate.<ref>[http://www.exarchat.org/article.php3?id_article=563 Communiqué N° 12-06 du Conseil de l’Archevêché et Déclaration]</ref><br />
<br />
He was forcibly retired from his position as administrator of the Sourozh diocese after requesting release from Moscow and reception into the Ecumenical Patriarchate, along with those of his flock who wished to follow him.<ref name="Innokenty1">[http://www.sourozh.org/info/letters/letter230706.html Letter "To all the clergy and faithful of the Diocese of Sourozh"] - Abp. Innokenty of Korsun, July 23, 2006</ref> The announcement of his retirement came upon his refusal to withdraw his letter to Constantinople (sent after his request for release from Moscow) which requested reception and noted his request for release from Moscow.<ref>[http://orthodoxe.free.fr/files/BBtoEcPatr01.pdf Letter to Patriarch Bartholomew I] - Bp. Basil (Osborne), May 2, 2006</ref> After his forced retirement was announced in the Sourozh cathedral in London, Basil immediately appealed the decision to the Ecumenical Patriarchate on the basis of Canons 9 and 17 of the [[Fourth Ecumenical Council]].<br />
<br />
The Ecumenical Patriarchate subsequently received Basil on the basis of his appeal which followed the retirement, although Moscow had not issued a canonical release and had instructed him not to be received into another patriarchate until matters could be looked into by an appropriate commission. Consequently, the Moscow Patriarchate does not regard his reception into the Ecumenical Patriarchate as valid, nor does it recognize the title ''Bishop of Amphipolis'' given to him by the Holy Synod of the Patriarchate of Constantinople on [[June 8]], 2006.<ref>[http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=en&id=678&tla=en Press Release for the Election of Bishop Basil of Amphipolis] - Ecumenical Patriarchate, June 8, 2006</ref> Considering him still a bishop of the Russian Orthodox Church, now in retirement, it refers to him in official correspondence without titular connection, as 'The Right Reverend Bishop Basil (Osborne)'.<ref name="MP1">[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/synod190706_en.html Decision of the Holy Synod concerning Bishop Basil (Osborne)] - Moscow Patriarchate, July 19, 2006</ref> <br />
<br />
The Moscow Patriarchate does not recognize the act of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in receiving Basil, and still regards him as belonging to itself, announcing this decision of its [[Holy Synod]] on [[June 13]], 2006. Bishop Basil was summoned to appear before the MP synod on July 17,<ref>[http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=1559 Russian Church: Bishop Basil Osborn's move to Constantinople's jurisdiction invalid as he is still her bishop] - Interfax, June 14, 2006</ref> but declined to do so. Since 19 July 2006 the Synod of the Moscow Patriarchate has placed him under temporary suspension, forbidding him 'from celebrating divine services until his repentance or until the decision of the matter by a court of bishops'.<ref name="MP1" /><br />
<br />
The resolutions of the Moscow Patriarchate of the [[July 19]], 2006, make Bp. Basil's canonical stature a matter of intense dispute between Moscow and Constantinople. According to the Ecumenical Patriarchate, Basil may legitimately celebrate as a bishop; according to Moscow, he is forbidden to do so. Accordingly, no communicant of the Moscow Patriarchate who wishes to remain faithful to the decisions of his hierarchy may knowingly participate in a liturgy at which Basil celebrates as a bishop, nor may they receive Holy Communion from him. Similarly, after these resolutions, no Moscow Patriarchate priest may [[concelebration|concelebrate]] with Basil.<ref name="Innokenty1" /><br />
<br />
The ancient Patriarchates of [[Church of Alexandria|Alexandria]] ([[June 19]], 2006)<ref>[http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=698&tla=gr Letter from Pope of Alexandria concerning Bp. Basil Osborne] - June 19, 2006</ref> and [[Church of Jerusalem|Jerusalem]] ([[June 6]])<ref>[http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=697&tla=gr Letter from Patriarch of Jerusalem concerning Bp. Basil Osborne] - June 6, 2006</ref>, along with the [[Church of Cyprus]] ([[June 14]])<ref>[http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=699&tla=gr Letter from ''locum tenens'' of the Archbishop of Cyprus concerning Bp. Basil Osborne] - June 14, 2006</ref>, have recognized the reception by Constantinople of Bp. Basil (the latter doing so in extremely reserved terms, describing the option as the lesser of two evils<ref>[http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=699&tla=gr Letter from ''locum tenens'' of the Archbishop of Cyprus concerning Bp. Basil Osborne] - June 14, 2006</ref>). <br />
<br />
<br />
{{start box}}<br />
{{succession|<br />
before=[[Anthony (Bloom) of Sourozh|Anthony (Bloom)]]|<br />
title=Bishop of Sergievo,<br>Administrator of the [[Diocese of Sourozh]]|<br />
years=2003-2006|<br />
after=[[Innokenty (Vasilyev) of Korsun|Innokenty (Vasilyev)]]}}<br />
{{succession|<br />
before=?|<br />
title=Bishop of Amphipolis|<br />
years=2006-present|<br />
after=&mdash;}}<br />
{{end box}}<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
<div class="references-small"><br />
<small><references /></small><br />
</div><br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://www.exarchate-uk.org/ Episcopal Vicariate of Great Britain and Ireland]<br />
*[http://www.exarchat.org/article.php3?id_article=564 Biography of Bishop Basil] on the Exarchate's homepage<br />
*[[Wikipedia:Russian Orthodox Diocese of Sourozh]] in which Bishop Basil formerly served, containing information on his departure from that diocese<br />
<br />
[[Category:Bishops]]</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:ASDamick&diff=36868User talk:ASDamick2006-08-06T12:08:16Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: Working on Bishop Basil entry</p>
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<div>Welcome to the Talk page of [[User:ASDamick|ASDamick]]. Please leave your message below the line.<br />
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* [[/Archive 1|Archive 1]]<br />
* [[/Archive 2|Archive 2]]<br />
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== Featured article ==<br />
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Dn., I was thinking it would be nice to do something of a [[Nativity]] theme through [[January 7]] or so. However, it doesn't look like we have enough information on OrthodoxWiki for that yet. I'll let St. [[Gregory Palamas]] take a turn for now, but I would like your feedback about the Nativity-theme idea. {{User:Magda/sig}} 11:13, December 23, 2005 (CST)<br />
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:Well, of course I was hoping you'd provide that. :) I don't have as much knowledge and understanding as I would like to do what I want with this; still more questions than answers.<br />
:There's already [[Nativity]] and [[Nativity Icon]], and [[Incarnation]], but these need more expansion before I would want them to be featured. However, there could be other aspects as well, maybe a ''Hymns of the Nativity'' which talks about the theological importance; an article on the ''Magi''; and the geneology or forefathers of Christ; I'd love to see one which talks about Christ as the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophesies; ''Herod'' and ''Holy Innocents'' might be a good idea, talking about the world's reaction to the birth. You know, because everyone will have plenty of free time to get this up for this year... {{User:Magda/sig}} 14:48, December 23, 2005 (CST)<br />
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== On Egypt, Constantinople, Jerusalem, etc. ==<br />
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You are right. I guess you need a "disambiguiation page" here. Same applies to Jerusalem (as a city/place of importance in Christendom and not just a patriarchal see). ER<br />
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== e-vangelism ==<br />
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Hey. For the [[e-vangelism]] page hte entry is not refering to the evangelical church movement. It is making reference to the literal meaning of the word. [http://http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:Dcndavid#e-vangelism Message to DcnDavid]<br />
I have made a new format for the entry if you want to view it. (This probably meets the style and content better).<br />
<nowiki>An e-vangelist is a person who uses the Internet to present the Christian gospel message to the world. <br />
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== Biblical Role ==<br />
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The role of an evangelist or e-vangelist in conjunction with the [[apostles]], [[prophets]], [[pastors]] and [[teachers]] is described in '''[[Ephesians]] 4:11-13'''<br />
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"''11He is the one who gave these gifts to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. 12Their responsibility is to equip God's people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ, 13until we come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God's Son that we will be mature and full grown in the Lord, measuring up to the full stature of Christ.'' '''"Ephesians 4:11-13'''<br />
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'''SEE ALSO'''<br />
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*[[Evangelism]]<br />
*[[internet evangelism]]<br />
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'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''<br />
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*[http://www.e-vangelist.true.ws E-vangelism.official.ws]</nowiki><br />
--[[User:Ari|Ari]] 22:45, January 2, 2006 (CST)<br />
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== New Martyr circle ==<br />
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[[Saint titles]] has a link to [[New-martyr]] which redirects to [[New Martyrs]] which redirects to [[Saint titles]]. [[New-Martyr]] is the main redirect (in all the calendric pages) to [[Saint titles]]. Perhaps I should have changed the link on the [[OrthodoxWiki:Articles from the DEC]] page so it would be to ''New-Martyr'' insteada of creating ''New Martyrs'' as another redirect. {{User:Magda/sig}} 15:34, January 3, 2006 (CST)<br />
:I suspected as much; hence my comment, rather than trying to "fix" things. :) {{User:Magda/sig}} 15:36, January 3, 2006 (CST)<br />
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== Eve ==<br />
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Dn. Andrew, when I search for "Eve" I am redirected to [[Adam and Eve]], but when I get to the search page (as opposed to using the search in the nav-bar), I get no hits at all. Any suggestions? (My preferences are set such that all of the namespaces are selected as a range, and I don't have a problem with searching for "Adam.") {{User:Magda/sig}} 08:34, January 4, 2006 (CST)<br />
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==Redundancies==<br />
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Dn. Andrew: Thanks for the heads up. It struck me after I added the Japan banner. Your comment confirmed it. I must say your are quick on the editting. I don't mind it as I keep finding I left something out or missed somewhere and I find it nice having yours and Magda's editting help.[[User:Wsk|Wsk]] 10:07, January 5, 2006 (CST)<br />
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== Bishop v. Hierarch, Patriarch v. Primate ==<br />
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When creating categories and lists, do you think it would be better to use the current title of a see, e.g. ''bishop'', or a more general title, e.g., ''hierarch''? I'm looking at [[:Category:Bishops]].<br />
<br />
To take an example, [[List of Patriarchs of Constantinople]] has bishops of Byzantium, bishops of Constantinople, archbishops of Constantinople, and then patriarchs of Constantinople. The listings, i.e., each bishop, would potentially be included in a similar category: [[:Category:Patriarchs of Constantinople]]. However, those falling under "bishops of Byzantium" might not be included in this category (cf. [[Apostle Andrew]]). That's why I am trying to think of a better way to organize.<br />
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The options as I see them:<br />
# If the see is ''now'' a (bishopric/archbishopric/patriarchate), all the hierarchs of that see will be included in a list and category of (bishops/archbishops/patriarchs) of that see.<br />
# For any given see, the ''hierarch'' would be included in the list and category of ''hierarchs'' of that see; any see which is now a patriarchate will have its primates included ''instead'' in the list and category of ''primates'' of that patriarchate.<br />
# Each category and list will be its own individual entity.<br />
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Your thoughts? {{User:Magda/sig}} 14:24, January 5, 2006 (CST)<br />
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:Your patent answers (which I never seem to think of) are why I keep asking you questions. Thank you. {{User:Magda/sig}} 10:47, January 6, 2006 (CST)<br />
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== Iakovos correspondence ==<br />
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The only other place I can find this information is the [[Wikipedia:Iakovos, Archbishop of America|Wikipedia page]]. Currently, the website of the Department of Pastoral and Social Theology of the Aristotle University of Thessaloniki is down. {{User:Magda/sig}} 20:29, January 7, 2006 (CST)<br />
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== St. Tikhon's Photo ==<br />
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[[Image:St_Tikhons_Monastery.jpg|100 px]] Would you mind if I reuploaded your St. Tikhon's photo, with the power lines Photoshopped out? -[[User:HiFiGuy|HiFiGuy]] 11:47, February 2, 2006 (CST)<br />
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:Only because I think that the power lines are distracting; if you look for photos of The Alamo, you'll frequently find a giant sign for the Crockett Hotel in the background... unless they've been Photoshopped out--and it frequently has been. Imagine if you could get a ladder and take a photo of the church from right at the power lines (so they wouldn't appear in the photo). Failing that, it's much easier to just make a little tweak. On the other hand, maybe a photo with the power lines in will encourage a donor to help pay to bury them. This is merely a suggestion; I thought I'd ask here, first. -[[User:HiFiGuy|HiFiGuy]] 12:56, February 2, 2006 (CST)<br />
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== Capping of headings and sub-headings ==<br />
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I noticed that you edited a recent editing of mine which capitalized "External links" in the article on his emminence [[Dmitri (Royster) of Dallas|Dmitri]]. I'm curious why some headings get title case and others get sentence case. Even in the style guide, which doesn't mention them specifically, there appears to be inconsistency. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 23:44, March 11, 2006 (CST)<br />
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:<br />
:Thanks for the reply. I figured something along those lines was up. Also, I '''totally agree''' with your assessment of the misuse of title case in much English-speaking Orthodoxy. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 18:14, March 13, 2006 (CST)<br />
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== Alternate flag/cross image ==<br />
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[[Image:Orthodox us.gif|thumb|left]]I am not sure exactly why, but the current image used to mark pages discussing Orthodoxy in the US, using the orthodoxyinamerica template, has always bugged me, almost to the point of offense. I think perhaps it is because the presentation is so direct, almost confrontive, and the impression to me is of a single, new flag --- a sort of Byzantine Empire of America flag --- not a flag with a cross superimposed.<br />
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I've whipped up an alternative. It's clearly inspired by your original image --- even to the point of using the original pectoral cross --- but uses a photo of a US flag flying in the wind (actually taken on Liberty Island). Since your original image is in the PD, and the image of the flag was taken from stock.xchng and has no restrictions, I've attached a CC license. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 22:02, March 13, 2006 (CST)<br />
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<br />
:<br />
:I'm glad you like it. Thanks for the info on the cross. I seem to remember seeing it as a wall cross, now that you mention it, and I'm sure I own one that is in the possession of someone else right now. (Military life and all.) --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 06:13, March 15, 2006 (CST)<br />
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== A question ==<br />
<br />
See my question on the [[Theotokos]] TALK page. If you could find the time to explain that to me, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.<br />
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[[User:Acedaroflebanon|Acedaroflebanon]] 12:32, March 19, 2006 (CST)<br />
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== Thanks for the Reminder ==<br />
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Thank you for reminding me about obtaining proper permission. All of the images have now been confirmed by OCA. [[User:Pkdimarco|Pkdimarco]] 15:55, April 12, 2006 (CDT)<br />
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==Picture==<br />
I tried to restore your picture (Image:Andrew Stephen Damick.jpg) after it had been deleted after a vandal attack, but (it seems) failed; sorry. --{{User:Pistevo/sig}} 20:54, April 17, 2006 (CDT), edited 07:03, Apr 18, 2006.<br />
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::I tried, too. I couldn't figure out how to do it. But I guarantee, no image is better than the one I deleted. {{User:Dcndavid/sig}} 21:27, April 17, 2006 (CDT)<br />
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:No question. Something that I've done that I think should be a matter of course - sysop and important images (like icons) should be protected. It's just too easy to vandalise. --{{User:Pistevo/sig}} 22:32, April 17, 2006 (CDT)<br />
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==Macedonians==<br />
Would appreciate your opinions on [[Talk:Orthodoxy in Australasia]] regarding whether the Macedonian metropolitanate should be listed as another Orthodox structure. (also posted on [[User_talk:FrJohn|Fr John]]'s talk page) --{{User:Pistevo/sig}} 17:55, April 30, 2006 (CDT)<br />
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==[[HOCNA]]==<br />
Thanks :) . I just got sick of there being two versions and ''still'' having the first version changed to look surprisingly like the second. --{{User:Pistevo/sig}} 06:55, May 5, 2006 (CDT)<br />
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==I appreciate the welcome.==<br />
Trying to figure out the text codes and graphics situation has been an interesting challenge, but I think I'm getting the hang of it (the very basics, at least.) I just noticed that you'd replied to my query about the witan, as well. <br />
<br />
Out of personal interest, were you pretty much assured of your first choice seminary once you were accepted as a seminarian? You see, my boyfriend (we're Antiochian, too) would love to go to St. Vlad's, but every now and then he has a panic attack that he could be sent off to, say, the hinterlands of Alaska. In any case, he's planning on speaking to Bishop Basil in September when the Bishop comes to Texas, so we'll see. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 15:14, May 9, 2006 (CST)<br />
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==Photos==<br />
Thank you, Father Deacon. Your point is well taken - the fine point of the Law! I'll change the attribution as you recommend. Also. in up loading the photos, I first titled the files and then uploaded them without taking in account the warning of not using an '&' in the file name. I tried to figure out how to remove the offending file but couldn't. I would appreciate if you could make the correction - removing the offending file.<br />
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== Image question ==<br />
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[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Abouna_Matta_El_Meskeen.jpg This] looks to be the source of [[:Image:416px-Abouna_Matta_El_Meskeen.jpg]]. Would this qualify as public domain, or would it still fall under GFDL? The wikipedia language states that "All text is available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License," but fails to convince me of the status of the image there. {{User:Magda/sig}} 14:38, May 16, 2006 (CDT)<br />
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== Standard characters for titles ==<br />
<br />
Dn. Andrew, I remembered something about using standard characters for article titles. After poking around for a while, I found the following useful: [[Talk:Daniel the Hermit]] and [[http://www2.orthodoxwiki.org/OrthodoxWiki_talk:Style_Manual#Spelling_conventions]]. Would you mind writing something up in the [[OrthodoxWiki:Style Manual]] to address this? I tried a search for "Jaaskelainen" and did not get to [[Ambrose (Jääskeläinen) of Helsinki]]. If we do want to have the article titles with special characters, should we have a standard-character redirect? —[[User:Magda|<b>magda</b>]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 10:08, May 26, 2006 (CDT)<br />
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== Pilgrimage ==<br />
<br />
Deacon Andrew:<br />
<br />
It looks like I'll be attending the pilgrimage again this year (thanks be to God). I'd love to meet you.<br />
<br />
Also, I know the timing is rather late, but if you have a spare patch of floor/couch/bed where a pilgrim could take shelter Sunday night, that would be the bomb. :D No pressure; just wondering. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 14:24, May 27, 2006 (CDT)<br />
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==Bp. Orestes==<br />
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Thanks, Dn Andrew, for the change in the title for Bp. Orestes. I was not sure of all the potential titles for Bp. Orestes which one would be correct. So, you came to my rescue again! <br />
To change the subject, I notice some time ago that on the Calendar we have an 'Edward of England', September 3 I think, but in a search of the net, I have found only an 'Edward the Martyr' or an 'Edward the Confessor'. So, we have an anomoly. which Edward is 'Edward of England'? I haven't found a third! <br />
Perhaps you and/or Magda came clear up the inconsistence. Keep up the excellent work. wsk [[User:Wsk|Wsk]] 11:58, May 28, 2006 (CDT)<br />
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== Hermas/Hermes ==<br />
<br />
Should we have [[Apostle Hermes|Apostle Herm'''e'''s]] as a disambiguation page, to distinguish between [[Apostle Hermas|Apostle Herm'''a'''s]] and [[Apostle Hermes (bishop)|Apostle Herm'''e'''s (bishop)]]? Currently on the [[Apostles]] page it may be confusing. —[[User:Magda|<b>magda</b>]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 11:30, May 31, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
==Moving over redirs==<br />
I actually just moved the article over the existing redirect, but I selected the 'delete page first' button - perhaps that's what did it. Thanks for looking out for me :). &mdash; ''[[User:Pistevo|Pι]]''[[Special:Listusers/sysop|s]]'''[[User talk:Pistevo|τ]]'''[[Special:Contributions/Pistevo|é]]''[[User:Pistevo|vο]]'', at 20:32, May 31, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Deletes ==<br />
<br />
Yeah.. the thing is the legitimate history was already deleted. I am thinking it would be better to restore the initial delete anyway. Let me try that out instead. I just didn't want that stuff in the article history... {{User:FrJohn/sig}}<br />
<br />
==[[Greek Orthodox Metropolis of New Zealand]]==<br />
Article was protected, I assume, because of an e-mail received by the chief secretary - perhaps you've received it? &mdash; edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="red">Pι</font>]][[Special:Listusers/sysop|s]][[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="yellow">τ</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Pistevo|é]][[User:Pistevo|<font color="blue">vο</font>]] at 17:38, June 6, 2006 (CDT)<br />
:Basic summary (as far as I can make out) - take down the article because it is false, until the "Holy Archdiocese of New Zealand, Exarchate of Oceania" (sic) gives permission for a article written by someone with the Metropolitan's blessing. A takedown hasn't occured because there's no cause for such - everything on the article is a matter of public record. &mdash; edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="red">Pι</font>]][[Special:Listusers/sysop|s]][[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="yellow">τ</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Pistevo|é]][[User:Pistevo|<font color="blue">vο</font>]].<br />
<br />
==Axios==<br />
<br />
Thank you, Dcn. Andrew. [[User:Vandrona|Dn. Virgil]]<br />
<br />
==Priesthood==<br />
<br />
I see now how you really feel. I just joined you into the diaconate and you're already making plans to leave me behind :) Congratulations! Axios! [[User:Vandrona|Dn. Virgil]]<br />
<br />
==1917/1918 Council==<br />
<br />
Dcn. Andrew. I'm asking your opinion.<br />
I have been working on an article about the 1917/1918 All Russian Local Council that is based upon recent scholarship, a Phd dissertation, that researched the Russian archives. It is a substantial article, at least seven pages. The dissertation is some 230 pages. I noticed the recent article on the same subject marked <stub>. I am torn on how to handle it as there is not much I'd use out of the posted article, but I've been reluctant to just overwrite it. I could post mine with a different title or make it available for your review - on the sandbox or a direct e-mail. Or, if your think it proper I can just overwrite!<br />
<br />
Your opinion please. [[User:Wsk|Wsk]] 15:57, June 11, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
Thanks. Will do. [[User:Wsk|Wsk]] 17:36, June 11, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Xenophontos image ==<br />
<br />
Potential source for [[:Image:Xenophontos Monastery.jpg]]: [http://inathos.gr/athos/en/athos.asp?n=56&c=3&t=0]. Site looks to be [http://inathos.gr/athos/en/Credits.html under copyright]. —[[User:Magda|<b>magda</b>]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 12:28, June 21, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== On Misunderstanding ==<br />
<br />
Dear Dcn. Andrew,<br />
Look - I'm not misunderstanding you deliberately!!! But I do sometimes find you shading just ever so slightly towards a disingenuous pedantry - which can rouse me to vexation, irony or hyperbole (depending on my mood). (That said, the only time you ever really annoyed me that time with the unexplained POV tag on wikipedia.) I also have something of an antisyzygy about me which rebels against punctuation-correction. Of course, I was being more than a little rhetorical with the Scotland thing. But the underlying point is genuine. (BTW, Scotland is, technically, not part of a state - it is a stateles nation; the state is the UK.) And I do appreciate it when you pull back something I've said carelessly or with an air of flippancy on POV grounds.<br />
<br />
The thing that does worry me - and what got me into all this wiki stuff - is the Sourozh business. The pro-Basil people are going around blatantly misrepresenting the situation, pretending its an indigenous V Russifying clash, a poor local bishop V evil Patriarchate, etc. Which, in fact, is just not true. There are far more shades of grey. Now, I'm sure that certain of the Russians are doing exactly the same thing on Russian sites - but I don't read Russian. All I can see is what is wrong with the stuff I do read. But what is being hidden is (a) the 'ambiguities' about the canonical aspects; and (b) the snobbish exclusivity of the 'English' Basil/Oxford-group that is a LARGE factor in the history of the problems. And, of course, this schism is doing and going to do a huge amount of damage to the Church in Britain. E.g. probably now we're going to have a Bishop and possibly several priests defrocked by Moscow, whilst serving for Constantinople. This is going to be very painful, and will split the faithful. But, all I see from the Basil-group is a hero-mentality ('we are the saviours of British orthodoxy'), propaganda, gloating - web-pages with titles like 'Sourozh destroyed' - and question-begging 'justifications' of why they are totally spotless and right, etc. etc. And then they spread this misinformation, and it becomes the received truth, and then appears on sites like wikipedia, etc. And they call this Orthodoxy! That's what gets my wick.<br />
<br />
Anyway, that tells you a bit about where I'm coming from. We share lots of interests in common, and so I'm sure we'd have lots to talk about, and if I keep editing things, then I'm sure we'll keep on bumping into each other! And if I'm bombastic, I'm most likely not entirely serious...,<br />
Regards,[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 01:44, June 29, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Various ==<br />
Dear Dcn. Andrew,<br />
Thanks for your comments. It is a difficult situation re Sourozh/Exarchate. In fact, I'm not as opposed to Bishop Basil's actions as it probably seems from the edits. For what it's worth, part of me has a great sympathy for the situation of the English wing of Sourozh. And certainly I am deeply unsure of medium-term DECR politics (DECR, after all, was set up by the Communists to eliminate the Russian Churches outside Soviet territory). No part of me supports any Russification of Sourozh, etc.<br />
<br />
I have already expressed my worries about the effects of Bishop Basil's actions upon UK Orthodoxy, and I wonder whether it is really worth the pain and division it is causing and will cause. This said, my real problem with the Oxford-London wing is the deep ambiguities that surround Basil's actions and the attitudes of his followers. To take one example - which I've never tried to put on an encyclopedia article - I once asked Bp Basil why he could not provide Sourozh priests for the Russian Orthodox in the major cities in Scotland. His answer was that the diocese has no money/people to do this. In fact, one of the things that has emerged from this controversy (indeed, from Basil's own first letter to Patriarch Alexei) is that this is not true - he DID have money & people, but these were only available on condition that the priests/churches would follow the standard Russian typikon. Now my problem is this: there are hundreds of people who cut off from the Russian Church because preserving the 'Sourozh ethos' is more important than meeting the spiritual needs of these Russian Orthodox Christians. And why is this so important? Because the interests of the Oxford-London group must take priority. It's like saying: you have can't have communion, because we don't want to wear headscarves. It's like saying: only we matter, and if you don't fit into what we want, then we'll just pretend you don't exist. Of course, no-one in Sourozh will say that to the face of these Orthodox Christians; they will just avoid them and pretend they are not there. When Bp Hilarion came to the Diocese of Sourozh in 2002, one of the first things he found was that there was a parish (outside the Oxford-London corridor) which had not had an episcopal visit for EIGHT years. Imagine that! When there are three bishops and less than 30 parishes and communities combined! (Needless to say, that parish was not Oxford...)<br />
<br />
A great deal of this tension within Sourozh diocese has arisen from these issues. And of course, the Oxford-Sourozh group (who, after all, write most of the English-language internet material on the subject) want to pretend that these issues don't exist. But they do, and they have a great deal to do with socio-cultural and ecclesial attitudes which are common within the English part of the Diocese of Sourozh.<br />
<br />
And these matters don't just affect Russian Orthodox. They are also some of the main reasons why so many of the English converts who don't come from the 'right' social background have ended up becoming Antiochean. If you ever speak to these Antiocheans, the story is always the same: at first they looked to Sourozh; but their face didn't fit; Sourozh didn't want to know; after despairing for a while, they found their home in Antioch. The most clear divide between English converts in the Antiocheans and Sourozh have been their social class and their geographical origin. And, although it's not something you can ever put in an encyclopedia article, you just need to hear the jokes that the upper middle-class English converts tell about the Antiocheans to become fully aware that their issues with the Antiocheans are mainly to do with social background.<br />
<br />
Now, my problem then when it comes to encyclopedia articles is that (a) material which ignores these issues, and which presents the matter as if it were just an ethnic divide, or a plot by the 'evil Russian DECR' is unacceptably skewed; but that (b) full-scale academic research on the history of UK Orthodoxy has not yet been undertaken, which means that one must either undertake fresh research oneself (which is not then suitable for inclusion in an encyclopedia article), or one must footnote informal sources which present opinions (e.g. Andrew Phillips' site).<br />
<br />
RE my edits, you're certainly right that sometimes I let the possibilities of hyperbole get the better of me. Partly its because writing something here is a slapdash quickfire affair - far more like public speaking than scholarship - and sometimes I just stick something up without perhaps toning it correctly. This, of course, is why it is so good that there is a community of people all correcting each other, &c. E.g. What was very good for me was your major edit on the stuff I'd written on Sourozh on wikipedia. That showed me how someone else reads what I wrote, etc. and actually helped me express myself better on the matter (not just in wikipedia, but generally). It should be clear that I don't have a problem being corrected, and am perfectly happy to hold my hand up when I'm mistaken. (But the other side of that is that I'm not so wary to express myself hyperbolically - but that's perhaps a celtic thing...) Also, I haven't said anything I don't firmly believe to be true.<br />
<br />
RE Bishop Basil's comments on the suspension of Fr Andrei, I'm actually not aware of anything in print regarding his personal motivations for the suspension of Fr Andrei. If you know of something, by all means, put it up - please! The one thing I would add though is that his motivations are a subject of controversy. (Indeed, for many, they are rather typical of the customary Sourozh mode-of-behaviour, which, particularly in the latter years of Metropolitan Anthony, was arbitrary and despotic, and which refused to make clear its motivations for action (Cf. Gill Crow's book for explicit recognition of this).) Proof is needed to avoid POV issues.<br />
<br />
Above all, my concern is that what is true be put up and made public. Unfortunately, this in-and-of-itself brings me into conflict with certain strands within the Oxford faction who, history will show, prefer that as much as possible be hidden behind closed doors.<br />
<br />
Lastly, I've enjoyed working/sparring with you over the last wee while. Certainly for me it is constructive to interact with an American who clearly thinks in a very different way from me. It interests me how we do misunderstand each other regularly. It's not so much language that divides us as differing forms of thinking. And of course, it's not disagreeing or misunderstanding that are the problems, so much as being able to resolve and work through disagreements and misunderstandings.<br />
<br />
Oh, and BTW, I rather like T.S. Eliot as well!<br />
<br />
Best wishes,<br />
[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 16:56, June 29, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
==Slapdash==<br />
Possibly 'slapdash' wasn't the best word. What I mean is that one is in a different frame of mind - and in my case, a freer one - when one is writing knowing that what one writes may be modified/removed at any point by someone else. But I take your point.<br />
As ever,<br />
[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 18:19, June 29, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
==Feature 7 Jul 06==<br />
Thanks for fixing the article - it's something that I seem to do every time... &mdash; edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="red">Pι</font>]][[Special:Listusers/sysop|s]][[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="yellow">τ</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Pistevo|é]][[User:Pistevo|<font color="blue">vο</font>]] at 18:17, July 7, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
==An article on Scientology?==<br />
I know, I know. You might be asking, "has it really come to this?" I was wondering if I could write an article on Scientology for Orthodoxwiki's Non-Orthodox section. My intent is to expose the "church" as not the theraputic self-help organization it portrays itself to be. However, there is a problem. There is some copyright snafu that I've heard they invoke when mentioning anything about Xenu, the bombs in the volcanoes, and the Operating Thetan III course. Obviously, I won't go into much detail (I'd have to write a book on it). What do think? Advice? Suggestions?[[User:Mike|Mike]] 11:07, July 14, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
==whooops...sorry==<br />
Hi, I'm an idiot. I was looking at what the vandals had done to the wiki in the past day and managed to accidentally press the revert button on the Rublev Trinity image...after which I scrambled frantically to try to reverse my mistake, which I'm also apparently too incompetent to have done correctly. Sorry about that. I'm sure you can fix it pronto. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 22:41, July 31, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
Ok, the weird thing was that after reverting to the vandal image, I tried that (reverting to your previous revert). The problem was that it kept showing up on my screen as the vandalized version. I even left the page and came back (though only a few seconds later) to see if I needed to refresh it. But no matter what I hit, I got the bad image. Hence the mad scramble in which I pressed different revert links about twenty times to make sure I just hadn't picked the wrong one. I was confused, lol. At least now it all looks hunky-dory. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 22:36, August 2, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Baby ==<br />
<br />
Congratulations to you both! We are expecting our little baby girl in mid-October 2006. We might have to swap tips! [[User:Joe Rodgers|&#123;&#123;User:Joe Rodgers/sig}}]] 23:48, August 5, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Working on Bishop Basil entry ==<br />
<br />
Dear ASDamick,<br />
<br />
Thank you for your recent changes to the article on [[Basil (Osborne) of Amphipolis]]. I'm glad to see us working on this text together. I would like to see it accurately and dispassionately reflect the full state of affairs surrounding this bishop. I think that most of your revisions to my recent update of the text have been very helpful - again, my many thanks for them.<br />
<br />
A few points that I think still need some further consideration:<br />
<br />
* ''Title:'' The title 'Bishop of Amphipolis' is contested, and highly controversial. It doesn't seem appropriate for the OrthodoxWiki article on the bishop to take a definitive side one way or the other on this matter. I had altered the text to address this, which you refined nicely. However, I do think it appopriate that the issue is left relatively open, by simply referring to him as 'Bishop Basil' in most cases (e.g. in the caption under the photograph). The title of the article gives him the title 'Bishop of Amphipolis' already, which points things in a certain reading; but I think we need to be wary of giving 'our own blessing' to a matter that is disputed amongst the patriarchates.<br />
<br />
* ''Nature of the bishop's retirement:'' I've corrected the paragraph on the nature of the bishop's forced retirement. This was not made because he sought reception in the EP, but because he sought to do so preemptorily, without canonical release and order.<br />
<br />
* ''Title in summary box:'' In line with my point above on the bishop's title, I think it is only fair / accurate to return the small footnote qualifier on the title in the summary box at the bottom. Not to do so seems to claim, in the article, that the matter is disputed and open, only to go on in the summary information to present it as a closed/decided issue. I think in fairness to the actual situation, this small flag is warranted and not in itself a bias (cf. for example the summary boxes on autocephalous churches on Wikipedia, where a small asterisk is used next to churches whose autocephaly is disputed by some).<br />
<br />
I've made edits to the article this morning to account for the above points; I hope they're in general things you approve of (I've made them as separate edits, so you can see the progression).<br />
<br />
--[[User:Antonios aigyptos|Antonios]] 07:08, August 6, 2006 (CDT)</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Basil_Osborne&diff=36867Basil Osborne2006-08-06T12:06:01Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: Added qualification to title in summary box at bottom of article</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Basil Osborne.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Bishop Basil (Osborne)]]<br />
His Grace, the Right Reverend Bishop '''Basil (Osborne) of Amphipolis''' is an [[auxiliary bishop]] of the [[Ecumenical Patriarchate]], serving in its [[Russian Orthodox Exarchate in Western Europe]], charged with the care of its flock in Great Britain and Ireland. He previously served as the temporary administrator of the [[Moscow Patriarchate]]'s [[Diocese of Sourozh]] (August 2003 - May 2006) with the title ''Bishop of Sergievo''. <br />
<br />
In his position in the Ecumenical Patriarchate's Exarchate in Western Europe, Bishop Basil's authority is over a newly-formed vicariate of parishes in the British Isles entitled the [[Episcopal Vicariate of Great Britain and Ireland]], which currently consists of five parishes and four smaller Eucharistic Communities that elected to follow him in his departure from the Diocese of Sourozh.[http://www.amphipolis.org/Parishes/parishindex.html] As part of this role, he sits on the council of the Exarchate.[http://www.exarchat.org/article.php3?id_article=563]<br />
<br />
He was forcibly retired from his position as administrator of the Sourozh diocese after seeking reception into the Ecumenical Patriarchate, along with those of his flock who wished to follow him, without having first obtained canonical release from the Moscow Patriarchate.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/letters/letter230706.html] The Ecumenical Patriarchate subsequently received Basil on the basis of his appeal which followed the retirement, although Moscow had not issued a canonical release and had instructed him not to be received into another patriarchate until matters could be looked into by an appropriate commission. Consequently, the Moscow Patriarchate does not regard his reception into the Ecumenical Patriarchate as valid, nor does it recognize the title ''Bishop of Amphipolis'' given to him by the Holy Synod of the Patriarchate of Constantinople on [[June 8]], 2006.[http://www.dioceseinfo.org/DOCUMENTS/Archdiocese-Documents/Declaration1206Eng.html] Considering him still a bishop of the Russian Orthodox Church, now in retirement, it refers to him in official correspondence without titular connection, as 'The Right Reverend Bishop Basil (Osborne)'.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/synod190706_en.html] <br />
<br />
The Moscow Patriarchate does not recognize the act of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in receiving Basil, and still regards him as belonging to itself, announcing this decision of its [[Holy Synod]] on [[June 13]], 2006. Bishop Basil was summoned to appear before the MP synod on July 17,[http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=1559][http://www.mospat.ru/index.phppage=31763&lng=0][http://www.orthodoxie.com/2006/06/dcision_du_sain.html] but declined to do so.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/synod190706_en.html] Since 19 July 2006 the Synod of the Moscow Patriarchate has placed him under temporary suspension, forbidding him 'from celebrating divine services until his repentance or until the decision of the matter by a court of bishops'.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/synod190706_en.html] <br />
<br />
The resolutions of the Moscow Patriarchate of the 19th of July 2006 make Bishop Basil's canonical stature a matter of intense dispute within the various parts of the Orthodox Church. According to the Patriarchate of Constantinople, Bishop Basil may legitimately celebrate as a Bishop; according to Moscow, he is forbidden to do so. Accordingly, no Russian Orthodox Christian who wishes to remain faithful to the decisions of the hierarchy of the Russian Orthodox Church may knowingly participate in a liturgy at which Bishop Basil celebrates as a Bishop; nor may they receive Holy Communion from Bishop Basil. Similarly, after these resolutions, no Moscow Patriarchate priest may celebrate with Bishop Basil.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/letters/letter230706.html]<br />
<br />
{{start box}}<br />
{{succession|<br />
before=[[Anthony (Bloom) of Sourozh|Anthony (Bloom)]]|<br />
title=Bishop of Sergievo,<br>Administrator of the [[Diocese of Sourozh]]|<br />
years=2003-2006|<br />
after=[[Innokenty (Vasilyev) of Korsun|Innokenty (Vasilyev)]]}}<br />
{{succession|<br />
before=?|<br />
title=Bishop of Amphipolis^|<br />
years=2006-present<br />
<br />
^ = ''Disputed title; see above''|<br />
after=&mdash;}}<br />
{{end box}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://www.amphipolis.org/ Episcopal Vicariate of Great Britain and Ireland]<br />
*[http://www.exarchat.org/article.php3?id_article=564 Biography of Bishop Basil] on the Exarchate's homepage<br />
*[[Wikipedia:Russian Orthodox Diocese of Sourozh]] in which Bishop Basil formerly served, containing information on his departure from that diocese<br />
<br />
[[Category:Bishops]]</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Basil_Osborne&diff=36866Basil Osborne2006-08-06T12:02:01Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: Refined description of 'Eucharistic Communities'; corrections to paragraph on Bishop Basil's reception by Constantinople.</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Basil Osborne.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Bishop Basil (Osborne)]]<br />
His Grace, the Right Reverend Bishop '''Basil (Osborne) of Amphipolis''' is an [[auxiliary bishop]] of the [[Ecumenical Patriarchate]], serving in its [[Russian Orthodox Exarchate in Western Europe]], charged with the care of its flock in Great Britain and Ireland. He previously served as the temporary administrator of the [[Moscow Patriarchate]]'s [[Diocese of Sourozh]] (August 2003 - May 2006) with the title ''Bishop of Sergievo''. <br />
<br />
In his position in the Ecumenical Patriarchate's Exarchate in Western Europe, Bishop Basil's authority is over a newly-formed vicariate of parishes in the British Isles entitled the [[Episcopal Vicariate of Great Britain and Ireland]], which currently consists of five parishes and four smaller Eucharistic Communities that elected to follow him in his departure from the Diocese of Sourozh.[http://www.amphipolis.org/Parishes/parishindex.html] As part of this role, he sits on the council of the Exarchate.[http://www.exarchat.org/article.php3?id_article=563]<br />
<br />
He was forcibly retired from his position as administrator of the Sourozh diocese after seeking reception into the Ecumenical Patriarchate, along with those of his flock who wished to follow him, without having first obtained canonical release from the Moscow Patriarchate.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/letters/letter230706.html] The Ecumenical Patriarchate subsequently received Basil on the basis of his appeal which followed the retirement, although Moscow had not issued a canonical release and had instructed him not to be received into another patriarchate until matters could be looked into by an appropriate commission. Consequently, the Moscow Patriarchate does not regard his reception into the Ecumenical Patriarchate as valid, nor does it recognize the title ''Bishop of Amphipolis'' given to him by the Holy Synod of the Patriarchate of Constantinople on [[June 8]], 2006.[http://www.dioceseinfo.org/DOCUMENTS/Archdiocese-Documents/Declaration1206Eng.html] Considering him still a bishop of the Russian Orthodox Church, now in retirement, it refers to him in official correspondence without titular connection, as 'The Right Reverend Bishop Basil (Osborne)'.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/synod190706_en.html] <br />
<br />
The Moscow Patriarchate does not recognize the act of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in receiving Basil, and still regards him as belonging to itself, announcing this decision of its [[Holy Synod]] on [[June 13]], 2006. Bishop Basil was summoned to appear before the MP synod on July 17,[http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=1559][http://www.mospat.ru/index.phppage=31763&lng=0][http://www.orthodoxie.com/2006/06/dcision_du_sain.html] but declined to do so.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/synod190706_en.html] Since 19 July 2006 the Synod of the Moscow Patriarchate has placed him under temporary suspension, forbidding him 'from celebrating divine services until his repentance or until the decision of the matter by a court of bishops'.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/synod190706_en.html] <br />
<br />
The resolutions of the Moscow Patriarchate of the 19th of July 2006 make Bishop Basil's canonical stature a matter of intense dispute within the various parts of the Orthodox Church. According to the Patriarchate of Constantinople, Bishop Basil may legitimately celebrate as a Bishop; according to Moscow, he is forbidden to do so. Accordingly, no Russian Orthodox Christian who wishes to remain faithful to the decisions of the hierarchy of the Russian Orthodox Church may knowingly participate in a liturgy at which Bishop Basil celebrates as a Bishop; nor may they receive Holy Communion from Bishop Basil. Similarly, after these resolutions, no Moscow Patriarchate priest may celebrate with Bishop Basil.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/letters/letter230706.html]<br />
<br />
{{start box}}<br />
{{succession|<br />
before=[[Anthony (Bloom) of Sourozh|Anthony (Bloom)]]|<br />
title=Bishop of Sergievo,<br>Administrator of the [[Diocese of Sourozh]]|<br />
years=2003-2006|<br />
after=[[Innokenty (Vasilyev) of Korsun|Innokenty (Vasilyev)]]}}<br />
{{succession|<br />
before=?|<br />
title=Bishop of Amphipolis|<br />
years=2006-present|<br />
after=&mdash;}}<br />
{{end box}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://www.amphipolis.org/ Episcopal Vicariate of Great Britain and Ireland]<br />
*[http://www.exarchat.org/article.php3?id_article=564 Biography of Bishop Basil] on the Exarchate's homepage<br />
*[[Wikipedia:Russian Orthodox Diocese of Sourozh]] in which Bishop Basil formerly served, containing information on his departure from that diocese<br />
<br />
[[Category:Bishops]]</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Basil_Osborne&diff=36865Basil Osborne2006-08-06T11:51:59Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: Corrected photo caption to maintain open view (NPOV) on disputed matter of the bishop's title</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Basil Osborne.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Bishop Basil (Osborne)]]<br />
His Grace, the Right Reverend Bishop '''Basil (Osborne) of Amphipolis''' is an [[auxiliary bishop]] of the [[Ecumenical Patriarchate]], serving in its [[Russian Orthodox Exarchate in Western Europe]], charged with the care of its flock in Great Britain and Ireland. He previously served as the temporary administrator of the [[Moscow Patriarchate]]'s [[Diocese of Sourozh]] (August 2003 - May 2006) with the title ''Bishop of Sergievo''. <br />
<br />
In his position in the Ecumenical Patriarchate's Exarchate in Western Europe, Bishop Basil's authority is over a newly-formed vicariate of parishes in the British Isles entitled the [[Episcopal Vicariate of Great Britain and Ireland]], which currently consists of five parishes and four Eucharistic Communities that elected to follow him in his departure from the Diocese of Sourozh.[http://www.amphipolis.org/Parishes/parishindex.html] As part of this role, he sits on the council of the Exarchate.[http://www.exarchat.org/article.php3?id_article=563]<br />
<br />
He was forcibly retired from his position as administrator of the Sourozh diocese after seeking reception into the Ecumenical Patriarchate along with those of his flock who wished to follow him.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/letters/letter230706.html] The Ecumenical Patriarchate subsequently received Basil on the basis of his appeal which followed the retirement, although Moscow had not issued a canonical release. Consequently, the Moscow Patriarchate does not regard his reception into the Ecumenical Patriarchate as valid, nor does it recognize the title ''Bishop of Amphipolis'' given to him by the Holy Synod of the Patriarchate of Constantinople on [[June 8]], 2006.[http://www.dioceseinfo.org/DOCUMENTS/Archdiocese-Documents/Declaration1206Eng.html] Considering him still a bishop of the Russian Orthodox Church, now in retirement, it refers to him in official correspondence without titular connection, as 'The Right Reverend Bishop Basil (Osborne)'.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/synod190706_en.html] <br />
<br />
The Moscow Patriarchate does not recognize the act of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in receiving Basil, and still regards him as belonging to itself, announcing this decision of its [[Holy Synod]] on [[June 13]], 2006. Bishop Basil was summoned to appear before the MP synod on July 17,[http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=1559][http://www.mospat.ru/index.phppage=31763&lng=0][http://www.orthodoxie.com/2006/06/dcision_du_sain.html] but declined to do so.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/synod190706_en.html] Since 19 July 2006 the Synod of the Moscow Patriarchate has placed him under temporary suspension, forbidding him 'from celebrating divine services until his repentance or until the decision of the matter by a court of bishops'.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/synod190706_en.html] <br />
<br />
The resolutions of the Moscow Patriarchate of the 19th of July 2006 make Bishop Basil's canonical stature a matter of intense dispute within the various parts of the Orthodox Church. According to the Patriarchate of Constantinople, Bishop Basil may legitimately celebrate as a Bishop; according to Moscow, he is forbidden to do so. Accordingly, no Russian Orthodox Christian who wishes to remain faithful to the decisions of the hierarchy of the Russian Orthodox Church may knowingly participate in a liturgy at which Bishop Basil celebrates as a Bishop; nor may they receive Holy Communion from Bishop Basil. Similarly, after these resolutions, no Moscow Patriarchate priest may celebrate with Bishop Basil.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/letters/letter230706.html]<br />
<br />
{{start box}}<br />
{{succession|<br />
before=[[Anthony (Bloom) of Sourozh|Anthony (Bloom)]]|<br />
title=Bishop of Sergievo,<br>Administrator of the [[Diocese of Sourozh]]|<br />
years=2003-2006|<br />
after=[[Innokenty (Vasilyev) of Korsun|Innokenty (Vasilyev)]]}}<br />
{{succession|<br />
before=?|<br />
title=Bishop of Amphipolis|<br />
years=2006-present|<br />
after=&mdash;}}<br />
{{end box}}<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
*[http://www.amphipolis.org/ Episcopal Vicariate of Great Britain and Ireland]<br />
*[http://www.exarchat.org/article.php3?id_article=564 Biography of Bishop Basil] on the Exarchate's homepage<br />
*[[Wikipedia:Russian Orthodox Diocese of Sourozh]] in which Bishop Basil formerly served, containing information on his departure from that diocese<br />
<br />
[[Category:Bishops]]</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:FrJohn&diff=36851User talk:FrJohn2006-08-05T20:27:43Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: Additional attrib link</p>
<hr />
<div><div id="shortcut" style="border: 1px solid #CC9; margin: 0em 1em 0em 1em; text-align: center; padding:5px; clear: both; background-color:#F1F1DE"><br />
''Welcome to my discussion page. Please post new messages to the bottom of the page and use headings when starting new discussion topics.<br> Please also sign and date your entries by inserting '''<nowiki>- ~~~~</nowiki>''' at the end. Thank you.<br>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} Start a new discussion topic.]''<br />
----<br />
''[[/archived discussion 1]] (through 09-07-2005)''<br><br />
''[[/archived discussion 2]] (through 11-20-2005)''<br><br />
''[[/archived discussion 3]] (through 05-24-2006)''<br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Protest ==<br />
<br />
Fr. John,<br />
I published my article on Hebrew Catholics in the Orthodox Wiki portal for two reasons, the first is I couldn't log in the General Wikipedia and the second because it is related to an Eastern spirituality. You said you deleted it because it is not convenient for your site, i mean, you consider it not appropriate. So, where is the information right for your believers and anybody else? Where is the Christian spirit you proclaim? I don't pretend to alien or romanize the Orthodoxy, as i understand we are from the same Apostolic root. Where is the final period for a real unity? When until are the Latin and Orthodox fighting for little things?<br />
I'm a great admiror of the Eastern culture and its ritual traditions. I respect and support the diversity in the Church of Christ. I believe in the unity but not the uniformity. So, if you could see i look for the defined identities from the peoples.<br />
<br />
::Hi Levikahano, It's not right for OrthodoxWiki because it deals with a Roman Catholic group. I'm not saying the group isn't important or that we may share many things, but this generally isn't in the scope of material that we would include here. I would encourage you to put it on a Catholic wiki, or even on Wikipedia. May God bless you. {{User:FrJohn/sig}}<br />
<br />
== Deletes and undeletes? ==<br />
<br />
I'm curious as to what exactly you're doing. Are you trying to erase article histories to remove direct evidence of vandalism? If so, it makes examining the legitimate part of the histories somewhat difficult... :/ &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>Dcn. Andrew</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Randompage|<font color="blue">random</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 16:03, June 3, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Book sources page formatting ==<br />
<br />
There are HTML formatting problems on the [[Special:Booksources]] page. (after the ISBN number is entered) This once worked but now does not. There is no way for me to fix it, so I’ll just report it. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 12:57, June 13, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:I went ahead and wikified the page. Is there a particular reason why the html formatting no longer works? —[[User:Magda|<b>magda</b>]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 13:09, June 13, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::Hmm... probably has to do with the upgrade to 1.6. I'm out of town now, but I'll try to have a look next week when I get back. [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]<br />
<br />
==Name blocks==<br />
Are we able to block certain usernames from being used? Right now, the system of renaming has its advantages in the history section of vandalised articles, but the same usernames can still be reused - can we put, say, a '*vandal*' block up? &mdash; edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="red">Pι</font>]][[Special:Listusers/sysop|s]][[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="yellow">τ</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Pistevo|é]][[User:Pistevo|<font color="blue">vο</font>]] at 21:57, June 16, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:I think it's possible, but I'll have to refresh my memory on this. Let me try to look at this later in the week. [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]<br />
::It is, you need [[:metawikipedia:Username Blacklist|this]] extension. [[User:Gregg|Gregg]] 15:40, June 17, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:::Thanks Gregg! That makes it easy. {{User:FrJohn/sig}}<br />
:::P.S. If anyone has an idea what should be blocked, please send me an email.<br />
<br />
== Hello, Father ==<br />
<br />
Thanks for the message. I'm a php programmer. I'm mystified by wiki, but I'll figure it out.<br />
<br />
==Re:==<br />
<br />
Thanks, not sure how much I can, or will contribute, but hey, maybe I will learn something.<br />
<small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Mmatga2me99|Mmatga2me99]] ([[User talk:Mmatga2me99|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mmatga2me99|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><br />
<br />
== Thank you for the welcome ==<br />
<br />
Dear Fr John,<br />
<br />
Thank you for the kind welcome. Much appreciated. It's nice to be here. -[[User:Antonios aigyptos|Antonios]] 15:27, August 5, 2006 (CDT)</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:FrJohn&diff=36850User talk:FrJohn2006-08-05T20:27:01Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: Fixed attrib link</p>
<hr />
<div><div id="shortcut" style="border: 1px solid #CC9; margin: 0em 1em 0em 1em; text-align: center; padding:5px; clear: both; background-color:#F1F1DE"><br />
''Welcome to my discussion page. Please post new messages to the bottom of the page and use headings when starting new discussion topics.<br> Please also sign and date your entries by inserting '''<nowiki>- ~~~~</nowiki>''' at the end. Thank you.<br>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} Start a new discussion topic.]''<br />
----<br />
''[[/archived discussion 1]] (through 09-07-2005)''<br><br />
''[[/archived discussion 2]] (through 11-20-2005)''<br><br />
''[[/archived discussion 3]] (through 05-24-2006)''<br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Protest ==<br />
<br />
Fr. John,<br />
I published my article on Hebrew Catholics in the Orthodox Wiki portal for two reasons, the first is I couldn't log in the General Wikipedia and the second because it is related to an Eastern spirituality. You said you deleted it because it is not convenient for your site, i mean, you consider it not appropriate. So, where is the information right for your believers and anybody else? Where is the Christian spirit you proclaim? I don't pretend to alien or romanize the Orthodoxy, as i understand we are from the same Apostolic root. Where is the final period for a real unity? When until are the Latin and Orthodox fighting for little things?<br />
I'm a great admiror of the Eastern culture and its ritual traditions. I respect and support the diversity in the Church of Christ. I believe in the unity but not the uniformity. So, if you could see i look for the defined identities from the peoples.<br />
<br />
::Hi Levikahano, It's not right for OrthodoxWiki because it deals with a Roman Catholic group. I'm not saying the group isn't important or that we may share many things, but this generally isn't in the scope of material that we would include here. I would encourage you to put it on a Catholic wiki, or even on Wikipedia. May God bless you. {{User:FrJohn/sig}}<br />
<br />
== Deletes and undeletes? ==<br />
<br />
I'm curious as to what exactly you're doing. Are you trying to erase article histories to remove direct evidence of vandalism? If so, it makes examining the legitimate part of the histories somewhat difficult... :/ &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>Dcn. Andrew</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Randompage|<font color="blue">random</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 16:03, June 3, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Book sources page formatting ==<br />
<br />
There are HTML formatting problems on the [[Special:Booksources]] page. (after the ISBN number is entered) This once worked but now does not. There is no way for me to fix it, so I’ll just report it. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 12:57, June 13, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:I went ahead and wikified the page. Is there a particular reason why the html formatting no longer works? —[[User:Magda|<b>magda</b>]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 13:09, June 13, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::Hmm... probably has to do with the upgrade to 1.6. I'm out of town now, but I'll try to have a look next week when I get back. [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]<br />
<br />
==Name blocks==<br />
Are we able to block certain usernames from being used? Right now, the system of renaming has its advantages in the history section of vandalised articles, but the same usernames can still be reused - can we put, say, a '*vandal*' block up? &mdash; edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="red">Pι</font>]][[Special:Listusers/sysop|s]][[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="yellow">τ</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Pistevo|é]][[User:Pistevo|<font color="blue">vο</font>]] at 21:57, June 16, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:I think it's possible, but I'll have to refresh my memory on this. Let me try to look at this later in the week. [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]<br />
::It is, you need [[:metawikipedia:Username Blacklist|this]] extension. [[User:Gregg|Gregg]] 15:40, June 17, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:::Thanks Gregg! That makes it easy. {{User:FrJohn/sig}}<br />
:::P.S. If anyone has an idea what should be blocked, please send me an email.<br />
<br />
== Hello, Father ==<br />
<br />
Thanks for the message. I'm a php programmer. I'm mystified by wiki, but I'll figure it out.<br />
<br />
==Re:==<br />
<br />
Thanks, not sure how much I can, or will contribute, but hey, maybe I will learn something.<br />
<small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Mmatga2me99|Mmatga2me99]] ([[User talk:Mmatga2me99|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mmatga2me99|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><br />
<br />
== Thank you for the welcome ==<br />
<br />
Dear Fr John,<br />
<br />
Thank you for the kind welcome. Much appreciated. It's nice to be here. [[User:Antonios aigyptos|Antonios]] 15:27, August 5, 2006 (CDT)</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:FrJohn&diff=36849User talk:FrJohn2006-08-05T20:25:01Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: /* Thank you for the welcome */</p>
<hr />
<div><div id="shortcut" style="border: 1px solid #CC9; margin: 0em 1em 0em 1em; text-align: center; padding:5px; clear: both; background-color:#F1F1DE"><br />
''Welcome to my discussion page. Please post new messages to the bottom of the page and use headings when starting new discussion topics.<br> Please also sign and date your entries by inserting '''<nowiki>- ~~~~</nowiki>''' at the end. Thank you.<br>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} Start a new discussion topic.]''<br />
----<br />
''[[/archived discussion 1]] (through 09-07-2005)''<br><br />
''[[/archived discussion 2]] (through 11-20-2005)''<br><br />
''[[/archived discussion 3]] (through 05-24-2006)''<br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Protest ==<br />
<br />
Fr. John,<br />
I published my article on Hebrew Catholics in the Orthodox Wiki portal for two reasons, the first is I couldn't log in the General Wikipedia and the second because it is related to an Eastern spirituality. You said you deleted it because it is not convenient for your site, i mean, you consider it not appropriate. So, where is the information right for your believers and anybody else? Where is the Christian spirit you proclaim? I don't pretend to alien or romanize the Orthodoxy, as i understand we are from the same Apostolic root. Where is the final period for a real unity? When until are the Latin and Orthodox fighting for little things?<br />
I'm a great admiror of the Eastern culture and its ritual traditions. I respect and support the diversity in the Church of Christ. I believe in the unity but not the uniformity. So, if you could see i look for the defined identities from the peoples.<br />
<br />
::Hi Levikahano, It's not right for OrthodoxWiki because it deals with a Roman Catholic group. I'm not saying the group isn't important or that we may share many things, but this generally isn't in the scope of material that we would include here. I would encourage you to put it on a Catholic wiki, or even on Wikipedia. May God bless you. {{User:FrJohn/sig}}<br />
<br />
== Deletes and undeletes? ==<br />
<br />
I'm curious as to what exactly you're doing. Are you trying to erase article histories to remove direct evidence of vandalism? If so, it makes examining the legitimate part of the histories somewhat difficult... :/ &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>Dcn. Andrew</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Randompage|<font color="blue">random</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 16:03, June 3, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Book sources page formatting ==<br />
<br />
There are HTML formatting problems on the [[Special:Booksources]] page. (after the ISBN number is entered) This once worked but now does not. There is no way for me to fix it, so I’ll just report it. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 12:57, June 13, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:I went ahead and wikified the page. Is there a particular reason why the html formatting no longer works? —[[User:Magda|<b>magda</b>]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 13:09, June 13, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::Hmm... probably has to do with the upgrade to 1.6. I'm out of town now, but I'll try to have a look next week when I get back. [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]<br />
<br />
==Name blocks==<br />
Are we able to block certain usernames from being used? Right now, the system of renaming has its advantages in the history section of vandalised articles, but the same usernames can still be reused - can we put, say, a '*vandal*' block up? &mdash; edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="red">Pι</font>]][[Special:Listusers/sysop|s]][[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="yellow">τ</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Pistevo|é]][[User:Pistevo|<font color="blue">vο</font>]] at 21:57, June 16, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:I think it's possible, but I'll have to refresh my memory on this. Let me try to look at this later in the week. [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]<br />
::It is, you need [[:metawikipedia:Username Blacklist|this]] extension. [[User:Gregg|Gregg]] 15:40, June 17, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:::Thanks Gregg! That makes it easy. {{User:FrJohn/sig}}<br />
:::P.S. If anyone has an idea what should be blocked, please send me an email.<br />
<br />
== Hello, Father ==<br />
<br />
Thanks for the message. I'm a php programmer. I'm mystified by wiki, but I'll figure it out.<br />
<br />
==Re:==<br />
<br />
Thanks, not sure how much I can, or will contribute, but hey, maybe I will learn something.<br />
<small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Mmatga2me99|Mmatga2me99]] ([[User talk:Mmatga2me99|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mmatga2me99|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><br />
<br />
== Thank you for the welcome ==<br />
<br />
Dear Fr John,<br />
<br />
Thank you for the kind welcome. Much appreciated. It's nice to be here. [[User:Antonios aigyptos|Antonios]]</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:FrJohn&diff=36848User talk:FrJohn2006-08-05T20:23:43Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: Thank you for the welcome</p>
<hr />
<div><div id="shortcut" style="border: 1px solid #CC9; margin: 0em 1em 0em 1em; text-align: center; padding:5px; clear: both; background-color:#F1F1DE"><br />
''Welcome to my discussion page. Please post new messages to the bottom of the page and use headings when starting new discussion topics.<br> Please also sign and date your entries by inserting '''<nowiki>- ~~~~</nowiki>''' at the end. Thank you.<br>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} Start a new discussion topic.]''<br />
----<br />
''[[/archived discussion 1]] (through 09-07-2005)''<br><br />
''[[/archived discussion 2]] (through 11-20-2005)''<br><br />
''[[/archived discussion 3]] (through 05-24-2006)''<br />
</div><br />
<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Protest ==<br />
<br />
Fr. John,<br />
I published my article on Hebrew Catholics in the Orthodox Wiki portal for two reasons, the first is I couldn't log in the General Wikipedia and the second because it is related to an Eastern spirituality. You said you deleted it because it is not convenient for your site, i mean, you consider it not appropriate. So, where is the information right for your believers and anybody else? Where is the Christian spirit you proclaim? I don't pretend to alien or romanize the Orthodoxy, as i understand we are from the same Apostolic root. Where is the final period for a real unity? When until are the Latin and Orthodox fighting for little things?<br />
I'm a great admiror of the Eastern culture and its ritual traditions. I respect and support the diversity in the Church of Christ. I believe in the unity but not the uniformity. So, if you could see i look for the defined identities from the peoples.<br />
<br />
::Hi Levikahano, It's not right for OrthodoxWiki because it deals with a Roman Catholic group. I'm not saying the group isn't important or that we may share many things, but this generally isn't in the scope of material that we would include here. I would encourage you to put it on a Catholic wiki, or even on Wikipedia. May God bless you. {{User:FrJohn/sig}}<br />
<br />
== Deletes and undeletes? ==<br />
<br />
I'm curious as to what exactly you're doing. Are you trying to erase article histories to remove direct evidence of vandalism? If so, it makes examining the legitimate part of the histories somewhat difficult... :/ &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>Dcn. Andrew</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Randompage|<font color="blue">random</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 16:03, June 3, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
== Book sources page formatting ==<br />
<br />
There are HTML formatting problems on the [[Special:Booksources]] page. (after the ISBN number is entered) This once worked but now does not. There is no way for me to fix it, so I’ll just report it. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 12:57, June 13, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:I went ahead and wikified the page. Is there a particular reason why the html formatting no longer works? —[[User:Magda|<b>magda</b>]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 13:09, June 13, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::Hmm... probably has to do with the upgrade to 1.6. I'm out of town now, but I'll try to have a look next week when I get back. [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]<br />
<br />
==Name blocks==<br />
Are we able to block certain usernames from being used? Right now, the system of renaming has its advantages in the history section of vandalised articles, but the same usernames can still be reused - can we put, say, a '*vandal*' block up? &mdash; edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="red">Pι</font>]][[Special:Listusers/sysop|s]][[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="yellow">τ</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Pistevo|é]][[User:Pistevo|<font color="blue">vο</font>]] at 21:57, June 16, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:I think it's possible, but I'll have to refresh my memory on this. Let me try to look at this later in the week. [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]<br />
::It is, you need [[:metawikipedia:Username Blacklist|this]] extension. [[User:Gregg|Gregg]] 15:40, June 17, 2006 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:::Thanks Gregg! That makes it easy. {{User:FrJohn/sig}}<br />
:::P.S. If anyone has an idea what should be blocked, please send me an email.<br />
<br />
== Hello, Father ==<br />
<br />
Thanks for the message. I'm a php programmer. I'm mystified by wiki, but I'll figure it out.<br />
<br />
==Re:==<br />
<br />
Thanks, not sure how much I can, or will contribute, but hey, maybe I will learn something.<br />
<small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Mmatga2me99|Mmatga2me99]] ([[User talk:Mmatga2me99|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mmatga2me99|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><br />
<br />
== Thank you for the welcome ==<br />
<br />
Dear Fr John,<br />
<br />
Thank you for the kind welcome. Much appreciated. It's nice to be here.</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=User:Antonios_aigyptos&diff=36847User:Antonios aigyptos2006-08-05T20:12:37Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: </p>
<hr />
<div>Orthodox Christian.</div>Antonios aigyptoshttps://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Basil_Osborne&diff=36837Basil Osborne2006-08-05T19:18:02Z<p>Antonios aigyptos: Much additional detail added; correction of some NPOV issues; additional links.</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Image:Basil Osborne.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Bishop Basil (Osborne)]]<br />
His Grace, the Right Reverend Bishop '''Basil (Osborne) of Amphipolis''' is an [[auxiliary bishop]] of the [[Ecumenical Patriarchate]], serving in its [[Russian Orthodox Exarchate in Western Europe]], charged with the care of its flock in Great Britain and Ireland. He previously served as the temporary administrator of the [[Moscow Patriarchate]]'s [[Diocese of Sourozh]] (August 2003 - May 2006) with the title ''Bishop of Sergievo''. He was forcibly retired from this position after seeking reception into the Ecumenical Patriarchate without having first obtained canonical release from the Moscow Patriarchate.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/letters/letter230706.html] Consequently, the Moscow Patriarchate does not regard his reception into the Ecumenical Patriarchate as valid, nor does it recognize the new title, 'Bishop of Amphipolis', given to him by the Holy Synod of the Patriarchate of Constantinople on 8 June 2006.[http://www.dioceseinfo.org/DOCUMENTS/Archdiocese-Documents/Declaration1206Eng.html] Considering him still a bishop of the Russian Orthodox Church, now in retirement, it refers to him in official correspondence without titular connection, as 'The Right Reverend Bishop Basil (Osborne)'.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/synod190706_en.html] <br />
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In his position in the Ecumenical Patriarchate's Exarchate in Western Europe, Bishop Basil's authority is over a newly-formed vicariate of parishes in the British Isles entitled the [[Episcopal Vicariate of Great Britain and Ireland]], which currently consists of five parishes and four Eucharistic Communities that elected to follow him in his departure from the Diocese of Sourozh.[http://www.amphipolis.org/Parishes/parishindex.html] As part of this role, he sits on the council of the Exarchate.[http://www.exarchat.org/article.php3?id_article=563]<br />
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The Moscow Patriarchate does not recognize the act of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in receiving Basil, and still regards him as belonging to itself, announcing this decision of its [[Holy Synod]] on [[June 13]], 2006. Bishop Basil was summoned to appear before the MP synod on July 17,[http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=1559][http://www.mospat.ru/index.phppage=31763&lng=0][http://www.orthodoxie.com/2006/06/dcision_du_sain.html] but declined to do so.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/synod190706_en.html] Since 19 July 2006 the Synod of the Moscow Patriarchate has placed him under temporary suspension, forbidding him 'from celebrating divine services until his repentance or until the decision of the matter by a court of bishops'.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/docs/synod190706_en.html] <br />
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The resolutions of the Moscow Patriarchate of the 19th of July 2006 make Bishop Basil's canonical stature a matter of intense dispute within the various parts of the Orthodox Church. According to the Patriarchate of Constantinopole, Bishop Basil may legitimately celebrate as a Bishop; according to Moscow, he is forbidden to do so. Accordingly, no Russian Orthodox Christian who wishes to remain faithful to the decisions of the hierarchy of the Russian Orthodox Church may knowingly participate in a liturgy at which Bishop Basil celebrates as a Bishop; nor may they receive Holy Communion from Bishop Basil. Similarly, after these resolutions, no Moscow Patriarchate Priest may celebrate with Bishop Basil.[http://www.sourozh.org/info/letters/letter230706.html]<br />
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{{succession|<br />
before=[[Anthony (Bloom) of Sourozh|Anthony (Bloom)]]|<br />
title=Bishop of Sergievo,<br>Administrator of the [[Diocese of Sourozh]]|<br />
years=2003-2006|<br />
after=[[Innokenty (Vasilyev) of Korsun|Innokenty (Vasilyev)]]}}<br />
{{succession|<br />
before=?|<br />
title=Bishop of Amphipolis^|<br />
years=2006-present<br />
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''^ = The title 'Bishop of Amphipolis' is not universally accepted; see above.''|<br />
after=&mdash;}}<br />
{{end box}}<br />
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==External links==<br />
*[http://www.amphipolis.org/ Episcopal Vicariate of Great Britain and Ireland]<br />
*[http://www.exarchat.org/article.php3?id_article=564 Biography of Bishop Basil] on the Exarchate's homepage<br />
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocese_of_Sourozh Wikipedia entry on the Diocese of Sourozh] in which Bishop Basil formerly served, containing information on his departure from that Diocese<br />
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[[Category:Bishops]]</div>Antonios aigyptos