: There are even more points, including Pope Shenouda's 'denial that the Holy Spirit can dwell in the faithful', and Pope Shenouda's famous 'three bodies of Christ' theory adapted from Protestant writings (in their interpretation of what we receive in the Eucharist). All these issues are fully documented and referenced from Pope Shenouda's published writings/books and audio/video lectures. I invite you to read more about the Orthodox doctrine of theosis, the Barlaamite Controversy (14th century), as well as Pope Shenouda's writings against Pope Kyrillos VI in El-Keraza magazine during the sixties of the past century. --[[User:Arbible|Arbible]] 00:59, April 27, 2007 (PDT)
My Dear Brother,
First I want to warn you not to believe everything you hear. I would like to know what your sources are and if you claim that all of what you are saying is included in the writings of His Holiness, then I want you to send me the text of what you are speaking about. It is very easy for someone just to claim they heard this from someone they think is a credible source, but to actually check to see whether all of what they told you is true, is a very hard task. If you are able to find all of the sources, then you could justify your claims. Until then, these are 100% unjustified and I'm telling you they are not true. If you are claiming that His Holiness Pope Shenouda III wrote against His Holiness Pope Kyrillos VI in the Keraza magazine, then I would like to know exactly which issue number it is and from what year and I will find it or if you have it then please scan and send me the article where you claim he speaks against him. I am unable to believe what you are saying is true. I'm sure you are very aware there is also a controversy about the concept of Theosis these days. '''There are many who think that either they will become God or will become one with God exactly as our Lord Jesus Christ but this is not true and this is the only part of the concept of Theosis that His Holiness disagrees with and I'm sure the Eastern Orthodox Church disagrees with those statements as well.'''
Here is the Coptic Orthodox understanding of Theosis:
'''''"Theosis or Deification means "union with God" taken from the Greek Theos - God, and the word Enosis - union. Our Lord Jesus Christ asked God the Father "They also may be one in us" (Jn 17:21). He also gave us the command of Theosis "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in Heaven is perfect" (Mt 5:48), our goal in life is to accomplish perfect union with God through the grace of the Holy Spirit. Man was created in the image and likeness of God, and then sin created a gap between God and mankind, causing damage to our souls. All Christians through baptism receive the seed of Theosis, which is not only to the forgiveness of sins, reconciliation and justification, but also a restoration of God's image. The sinful inclination of our human nature should not govern our behavior anymore; instead we should strive to live a holy life looking towards Jesus Christ the author of our faith, and growing in His knowledge and sonship. The restoration and sanctification of Theosis brings us back into relationship with the Creator. St. Athanasius' presentation of Theosis was summarized as "the reintegration of the divine image of man's creation through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit conforming the redeemed into the likeness of the Lord Jesus Christ, and also of the believer's transition from mortality to immortality so that he is enabled to participate in the eternal bliss and glory of the kingdom of God. "
'''''Our full union with God is a union with the "energies" of God. These energies, while an extension of God, are not to be confused with the "essence" or "substance" of God, which is unknown by humans and is shared only by the Holy Trinity. Our union with God will not make us gods but will make us partners in the Divine nature in works not in essence. We will not acquire the unique characteristics of God such as being the Creator, the Omnipotent, the Omnipresent, but it will make us partners with Him in building the Kingdom by our own salvation and by winning the souls of others to the Lord Jesus Christ."''
In the page about His Holiness Pope Shenouda III it says, "Books like Achieving Your Potential in Christ: Theosis - Plain Talks on a Major Doctrine of Orthodoxy by the Very Rev. Fr. Anthony M. Coniaris (Edited by D. A. Riewe) '''''would thus be against Pope Shenouda's teachings.'''''" - How can you ever make such a statement without first knowing and understand what His Holiness has actually said about the concept of Theosis?
In the beginning of the section it says, "Pope Shenouda III '''is said to be''' totally denying the Orthodox concept and doctrine of theosis ( even the word/term) ". This is a statement that cannot be backed in any way and is just someone stating what they THINK they heard about His Holiness and it doesn't deserve to be on a page about him as though it was factual information!
In that section it also says "Pope Shenouda' s longstanding theological disputes with Habib Bebawi, PhD (Cambridge), '' '''a renowned Coptic theologian''''' specialising in patristic studies and the late Father Matta El-Meskeen are well known, and many observers have attributed them to personal and ecclesiastico-political motives, rather than to any genuine doctrinal flaws or deviations from Orthodoxy in the writings of Bebawi and Matta. " - Dr. Bebawi has been excommunicated from the Coptic Orthodox Church and he is now a member of the Anglican Church and therefore, anything he says or believes does not have anything to do with the Coptic Orthodox Church. Dr. Bebawi also joined the Russian Orthodox Church first before leaving them to join the Anglican Church because they also did not agree with ANY of this teachings, meaning he is clearly NOT Orthodox! If you were to realize that all those against His Holiness are not Orthodox maybe you' d take back your statements. Father Matta had many thoughts that are not Orthodox and His Holiness wrote many books to answer all of the wrong teachings of Father Matta and therefore no one can ever claim that it is just personal problems! It is all VERY well documented in the writings of His Holiness and those of Father Matta. I' m trying to show you here that your statements have no back bone and they are all incorrect and I would like to have them removed immediately!
hope to hear back from you soon with the sources and proof for what it is you are claiming and I' d also like to know how you are able to protect the document and prevent others from correcting the information because you are not justified in your claims and therefore, you cannot forbid anyone else from making a correction to what you are saying. I hope you understand me because this is a serious matter that I would like resoloved.
Please keep me in your prayers.
== His Eminence Metropolitan Bishoy.. . ==
My Dear Brother
realized that you also protected his page when all you are doing is hurting him, not protecting him. Everything he said was taken out of context. Please realize that it is the enemies of the Church who do such things in order to create problems. Please allow me to edit this page as well. I can't stand to see this lies written about His Holiness and Metropolitan Bishoy. They are 2 of the greatest Theologians of our time and great defenders of Orthodoxy and they are being persected a lot as Saint Athanasius the Great was.
hope once again that you understand me. Please keep me in your prayers.
: Above comments by [[User: Orthodoxy4everr]]
: I am afraid what you are saying is not true! Please listen to http://zeitun-eg.org/members_contrib/anbabishoy06622.mp3
Yours in Christ, --[[User: Arbible| Arbible]] 00: 37, April 27, 2007 ( PDT)