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Talk:Church of Romania

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Romanian saints, monasteries etc.
:: Unfortunately, I think my brother would be in a much better position than I am to contribute the lives of Romanian saints. However, I'll do the little that I can. For starters, I ran into [,_Legati_de_Biserica_Noastra_Ortodox this] and I guess I'll start with a translation of one of the brief synopses found there. --[[User:Vandrona|virgil]]
:::It seems to me that "May the Lord remember you, orthodox Christians..." is not referring to the Orthodox faith ''as such''. I mean this: that at the time it was written, I don't imagine that '''Orthodox''' was the primary designation for the Church (that was more an adjective, no? and something like "The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church" would have been more of a formal descriptor?). Sure, it does refer to Orthodox Christians, and, sure, it is a statement against heresy, but it seems to me like the best way of translating this would simply be "right-believing Christians" rather than 'Orthodox' with a big 'O'. All of this is to say that I'm not sure it's a great guide to the self-designations of the Romanian Orthodox Church, or at least there are some issues to work out there. What do you think? [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]
== Tertullian ==
I removed the link to the Tertullian treatise, mainly because it doesn't seem to have any reference to Dacia in it. Am I missing something? --[[User:ASDamick|Rdr. Andrew]] 12:45, 17 Mar 2005 (CST)
* I don't think you missed anything. I didn't read the article so I'd missed it but I turned up nothing at all searching for Dacia, Geat or Get or any other Romanian tribal name variant I can think of that was used in antiquity. Even the references to Scythians (Scythia Minor was modern Dobrugea and there were Scythian tribes in North Eastern Moldova) seem to be irrelevant - merely using them as examples of heathen barbarians. I think you were right to remove the link. [[User:James|James]] 02:58, 18 Mar 2005 (CST)
== Romanian saints, monasteries etc. ==
This is really just a question on style, but these sections are growing larger and, if I can do so, I will expand the contents a lot in the future. Should the titles, then, be made into links to the appropriate categories, or should I leave them as they are? If they're left as they are, should I add a link to, for example, every saint I add (which, hopefully, will be an awful lot) or just leave a few as examples? I will follow any advice given. I know enough about at least 6 or 7 monasteries (and a few churches and cathedrals) to write at least a short article on them and have access to the lives of at least a couple of hundred Romanian saints, so if I carry on the way I have been the lists are likely to get umanageable.
On the issue of saints, monasteries and the like, I'm in the process of trying to get permission to use images from web sites to illustrate them, particularly icons. Assuming I'm given permission, I will add them as soon as possible. [[User:James|James]] 07:17, 21 Mar 2005 (CST)
: I think if there are just a couple dozen or so links in a list, then keeping it in this article would probably work fine. If, however, you put in all 200 saints' lives(!) you have, it would probably be better to create a separate article with that list, and include only a "greatest hits" section in this article with a link to that big list (perhaps [[List of Romanian saints]]). --[[User:ASDamick|Rdr. Andrew]] 08:52, 21 Mar 2005 (CST)
: OK, that seems reasonable. Obviously it will take me some time (probably years!) to get anywhere near the 200 saint mark, but I thought I'd best find out what to do ahead of time. I'll be very happy if I do manage to get even half of the saints I know about into OrthodoxWiki.[[User:James|James]]
::You could use (Patericul romanesc - Arhim. Ioanichie Balan )...[[User:Eutychius|Eutychius]]
== Re: The Church in Moldova ==
I'm not sure how to describe this confusing issue in the Wiki-article but currently it does not reflect the situation correctly (as I, Moldovan Orthodox, think).
Republic of Moldova is an independent state where majority of population speaks Romanian
language but only 2.1% of them considered themselves to be Romanians and 76.1% identify themselves as Moldovans (out of total 3,388 thousands, census of 2004).
The ecclesiastical situation is following.
Self-ruled Metropolis of Chisinau and Moldova. Self-rule granted in October of 1992.
Metropolitan Vladimir, permanent member of Holy Synod of Russian Orthodox Church. Four eparchies: Chisinau, Tiraspol and Dubasari, Edinets and Briceani, and Cahul and Comrat. Church languages - Romanian and Slavonic. Church music - Byzanthine and Russian. 1080 parishes, 30 monasteries, 1 academy, 2 seminaries.
Autonomous Metropolitan See of Basarabia. 30 parishes in Moldova, Odesa region of Ukraine and Chuvash region of Russia (Ural mountains). Founded by bishop of Balti, Petru (Paduraru) in 1992. Supported by political parties opposing independence of Republic of Moldova. It considers itself to be the heir of Metropolitan of Basarabia that existed in 1918-1940 (to make long story short, independent Moldovan Republic existed only for several days after which it was occupied by Kingdom of Romania and annexed) despite protests of non-canonical activity by St. Patriarch Tikhon.
In 1812-1918 the territory of modern Republic of Moldova was Chisinau Eparchy of Russian Church (first Metropolitan - Gavriil (Banulescu-Bodoni), last - Anastasios, future first-hyerarch of Russian Church Abroad), 1401-1812 - part of different eparchies of Ecumenical Patriarchate,
since 1791 Moldovlachian Exarchate, 1373-1401 - self-ruled church.
I'm not sure how this information can be used (may be as a separate article, as you wish).
Thank you!
::Wow, thanks for speaking up. This is just the kind of exchange that OrthodoxWiki is great for -- where else could this happen? [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]
The article is indeed a bit confused (eg should have been more properly named the Romanian Orthodox Church in the Republic of Moldova), but the reply by a courageous anonymous user is written in bad faith and is faking the history. I try to clarify a bit:
History: Until 1812 the Church in Bessarabia (roughly the territory of the Republic of Moldova) was part of the Orthodox Church in the principality of Moldova (there was no such thing as a Moldovlachian Exarchate as Moldavia and Walalchia were until 1859 two separate statal formations). After the annexation of the Bessarabia the church there became part of the Russian Church. The service in Romanian language was suppressed. In 1918, after the unification of Bessarabia with the Kingdom of Romania the Orthodox Christians were under the authority of the Metropolite of Bessarabia, part of the Romanian Orthodox Church. In 1940 after the occupation by the Soviet authorities the Metropolitan Church of Bessarabia was suppressed and the Orthodoxy tolerated by the communist authorities was under the jurisdiction of Moscow Patriarchate.
In 1992 after the break-up of the Soviet Union a group of clergy and believers (mostly of Romanian language) led by Metropolitan Petru Paduraru asked to join the Romanian Orthodox Church. Their request was granted and the Metropolitan Church of Bessarabia was reestablished as part of the Romanian Orthodox Church. However, the authorities of the Republic of Moldova refused to register this Church (and the Metropolitan Church of Moldova under Moscow jurisdiction also) and left no other option for the faithful than to appeal to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, the Court that monitors the respect of human rights by the states members of the Council of Europe (I know that for many non-Europeans this may be confusing but I am available for other explanations). By the judgment of 13 December 2001, the Court found that he Republic of Moldova violated the freedom of religion of the applicants: the Metropolitan Church of Bessarabia and eleven citizend of Republic of Moldova. The summary of the judgment of the Court is available on the web site of the Euroepean Court of Human Rights at
Following this judgment, the authorities of the Republic of Moldova had to register the Meptropolitan Church of Bessarabia and give it the legal recognition. The status of the Metropolitan Church mentions the fact that it is the succesor of the Metropolitan Church that existed between 1918 and 1944. I don't understand why would this be a problem...
Finally about the census in the Republic of Moldova, I would just like to stress that its' results have been contested by the Council of Europe. As this is the Orthodox wiki I do not intend to continue, but I am ready to provide any additional information, including for a separate article.[[User:Razvan2001|Razvan2001]] 18:32, May 1, 2006 (CDT)
'''Explaining The Context'''
Here's a bit of clarification regarding the situation in Moldova (or Moldavia – how it used to be called in the English speaking world).
What today is known the Republic of Moldova is roughly the Eastern half of the Romanian province of Moldova, also known as Bessarabia to most of the Romanians. In 1812, the Russian Empire engulfed the territory as a result of a peace agreement with the Turks. In the aftermath of the Communist revolution, the province of Bessarabia became independent (1918) and then returned to Romania following the decision of the Bessarabian National Assembly. Yes, there were Romanian troops in the province at that time with the mission to annihilate the local Bolshevik groups and prevent support from Ukraine and Russia. A few months later, the Romanian army would also fought in Hungary to dismantle Bella Kuhn's Soviet Republic.
In 1940, Bessarabia (plus some other, new, Romanian lands: Bukovina and Hertza) went to USSR as part of the Molotov - Riebentrop Pact (the very Commi - Nazi agreement that gave Eastern Poland and the Baltic Republics to the Russians). What followed was an intense policy of communisation and russification. The history was re-written to support a new identity for the people of Bessarabia as an offspring of a Slavic population. This is why there is a Moldovan language today, though it's the same good old Romanian. An analogy would be the languages spoken in Britain and in America.
Today, the Republic of Moldova is ruled by communists still dependent from Moscow. What happens in the Church has nothing to do with religion. The Church of Russia continues to promote the state's expansionistic interest in good Soviet tradition, while the Church of Romania is just playing the nationalist card.
--[[User:Stefan|Stefan]] 09:58, August 8, 2006 (CDT)
== Article based on Wikipedia article ==
This article is based on the corresponding Wikipedia article (, but it does not respect the terms of the license terms.
Wikipedia is licensed under GNU GFDL terms, so any derivation, including this article must:
# be under licensed under the same terms as the original article, i.e. GFDL; Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike is '''not''' compatible with GFDL
# link to the original article in Wikipedia or to a list of the contributors.
Non-compliance to these terms makes it a copyright violation.
Best wishes,
: A note has been added regarding the source. The versions now extant at both sites have diverged to the point that both are derivative of but not identical to the snapshot taken on Jan. 22, 2005. The version at OrthodoxWiki is significantly changed and thus not a violation of copyright law. In any event, the derivation was noted in the history, though it is now explicit in the article body. &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>Dcn. Andrew</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Randompage|<font color="blue">random</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 21:59, 19 Oct 2005 (EDT)
===Latin Language===
Don't You think it sounds ''way''-much better saying (something like): "Romanians are the '''only''' people upon the face of the earth that are of a ''Latin heritage/language'' (like Italians, Spanish, Portugese and French -- which are ''all'' Roman-Catholic), '''but''', unlike ''all'' other Latins, they have an ''Orthodox faith''" ? Someone might even dare say we're traditional ''Latin Orthodoxy''. :-) ... anyway, ... I just wanted to say that it doesn't seem to me that this particular idea is given the deserved importance, or maybe it's just not so clearly expounded or expresed -- that's all. [[User:Luci83ro|Luci83ro]] 19:21, July 5, 2006 (CDT)
:The Spanish-speaking Orthodox and the Portuguese-speaking Orthodox in Central America and in South America are of Latin language heritage. The Patriarchate of Antioch and the Patriarchate of Constantinople have extensive Archdioceses, Metropolitanates and Dioceses in the countries of these regions. Other Orthodox Churches also have parishes in these regions. North America has considerable numbers of Spanish-speaking Orthodox parishes under various jurisdictions. There are also Latin derived language Orthodox throughout western Europe. Romanians are not "the only people on the face of the earth that are of Latin heritage/language" and who are Orthodox. But they certainly are a great people, and have a significant role to play in the worship of the One True God. chrisg 2006-07-06-1151 EAST
!!! WOW !!! ... I never knew that ! ... I've read ''one'' conversion story to Orthodoxy of a Protestant missionary who was in Central- or South-America while converting ... '''but''' I never ---in my ''wildest'' dreams-- dreamt that it took ''such'' proportions (maybe it isn't ''much'', but I personally think it's ''considerable''). ... and I think I was some decades ago in my world-view of Orthodoxy also :-) ... [[User:Luci83ro|Luci83ro]] 11:08, July 6, 2006 (CDT)
: Here's a good link to [,com_weblinks/catid,13/Itemid,10/ relevant websites]. :) chrisg 2006-07-07-1333 EAST
:And here is [ a listing of Orthodox dioceses in Latin America] with links to their websites. :-) --[[User:Julio|Julio]] (a Latin Orthodox, no less!) 17:39, July 25, 2006 (CDT)\\
i wated to upgrate the article and i unstuck . sorry. where is the undo button? :(( . i wanted to put in article some upgradet information from
,,There are six [[metropolis|metropolia]] and ten [[archdiocese]]s in Romania, containing 14,035[[priest]]s and [[deacon]]s. Almost 631 [[monasticism|monasteries]] exist inside the country for some 8,059 [[monk]]s and [[nun]]s. Three diasporan metropolia and two diasporan dioceses function outside Romania proper. As of 2004, there are, inside Romania, fifteen theological universities where more than 10,898 students (some of them from Bessarabia, Bukovina, and Serbia) currently study for a doctoral degree. More than 15,116 churches exist in Romania for the Orthodox faithful As of 2002, almost 1000 of these were either in the process of being built or rebuilt."
[[User:Arthasfleo|Arthasfleo]] 02:49, February 8, 2008 (PST)
Reverted at your request Arthasfleo. Your update of patriarchal organisation added with citation. Thanks for the latest info. chrisg 2008-02-08 19:27 (AWST)

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