User talk:FrJohn

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/archived discussion 1 (through 09-07-2005)
/archived discussion 2 (through 11-20-2005)
/archived discussion 3 (through 05-24-2006)
/archived discussion 4 (through 04-13-2007)
/archived discussion 5 (through 05-28-2008)
/archived discussion 6 (through 11-25-2008)


Contents


August 17 Menaion

Should we call our father among the saints Theodoretus the enlightener of the Sami, as opposed to the enlightener of the Lapps. Lapp is considered something of an ethnic slur; much like calling the Inuit by the name Eskimo. On the other hand, should we wait until the Menaion itself is changed to reflect the better name for the people of northern Scandinavia. Eddieuny 03:22, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Hi Eddieuny, Thanks for your question. My take is that, since he is in the menaion as "Enlightener of the Lapps" we should do this, but with a footnote explaining what you just said -- it would be good to make people aware of this. Thanks! — FrJohn (talk) 04:30, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Ukrainian version

Dear Father, I thought to start Ukrainian version. How can I do that? I work with articles related to Orthodoxy on Ukrainian wikipedia.

--Roman Z 21:38, March 12, 2009 (UTC)

Orthodox Source

Hi father john, it is with much sadness and hurt that I see you close down Orthodox Source. Mainly because I invested a huge amount of time to put information onto that site that took a lot of my time and I dont have access to any more. I am a bit saddened because you didnt even give me some notice that you were going to close the site down so that I could at least download some of the information onto my personal computer that I can access in the future ... a bit disappointed that this was not considered and an opportunity given to do this. It only proves that the Internet is not a very viable Christian tool. Vasiliki 05:50, November 27, 2008 (UTC)

Fact check

Dear Father, I am trying to recall the name of the cemetery chapel at Saint Anna's Skete on the Holy Mountain. I wondered if you or any of your readers/discussants might help me.

Thanks, Isaak Scott Cairns

One source tells me it's "Holy Cross" — FrJohn (talk) 20:54, March 16, 2009 (UTC)

Hymns of Contrition

Father John, I bought a CD last night that in Greek is called "Kataniktika of Great lent". So, I set about doing a google today to find out just what are these hymns (although I understand the words). Many articles come up but they are primarily from the Catholic church and are seven Psalms ... these do not seem to be the format of the kataniktiko service. Can you help me. What are the Kataniktika of Great Lent? I want to post an article onto OrthodoxWiki for others to reference too.!! Thanks in advance. Vasiliki 22:54, March 16, 2009 (UTC)

O man, these Greek terms -- best ask a Byzantine-style cantor, I think. Anyone around here? — FrJohn (talk)
Триоди в Воскресенья - the CD translates the "Kataniktika" as the "Hymns of Contrition". However, if you do a google on that term it comes up with the Catholic version of Hymns of Contrition - which are not the same! Oi! What is wrong with the Greek terms? The church lasted 2,000 years because of the beauty in the Greek language :-) Do you want us to convert everything to Russian so you can understand? LOL ANYWAY! You are a priest - you should know what these are! ROFL Vasiliki 23:07, March 16, 2009 (UTC)
The Katanyktikoi Hymnoi (it helps to use standard Latinization for Greek!) may be called the "Hymns of Contrition" or "Penitential Hymns," and the term refers to a wide set of pieces of hymnography used throughout the period of the Triodion, most especially in the stichera of Lenten Vespers (most often referenced in Sunday night Vespers).
They are not the same thing as the "Penitential Psalms." —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 23:53, March 16, 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! What I did was cut and paste what you just said and inserted it into an article. Hopefully we can develop it a little ... there is not much available on the Internet for this. Vasiliki 00:34, March 17, 2009 (UTC)

ΒΟΗΘΕΙΑ

ΧΡΕΙΑΖΟΜΑΙ ΣΤΟΙΧΕΙΑ ΓΙΑ ΜΙΑ ΠΑΛΙΑ ΑΙΡΕΣΗ, ΛΕΓΕΤΑΙ ΑΦΘΑΡΤΟΔΟΚΗΤΙΣΜΟΣ ΚΑΙ ΙΔΡΥΤΗΣ ΤΗΣ ΗΤΑΝ Ο ΕΠΙΣΚΟΠΟΣ ΑΛΙΚΑΡΝΑΣΣΟΥ ΙΟΥΛΙΑΝΟΣ

Ελληνικά, παρακαλώ. Δεν μιλούν ελληνικά. Σε ευχαριστώ. — FrJohn (talk)

User Creation - Proposal

Greetings Fr. John, With the amount of Vandalism we have, I propose that anyone requesting a new account first has to submit a request online, with some brief info about temselves, and THEN THE REQUEST WILL REQUIRE APPROVAL by yourself or Fr. Andrew or other Sysops. The ability for anyone to automatically create accounts will be disabled, unless they are sincere and simply request a free account which they can then of course have; I think that the Conservapedia and some other wikis might have this system in place. Anyhow, just an idea I wanted to pass along :)

By the way, regarding the note immediately above this one (in greek), it reads something like this: "I require information on an ancient heresy, called "Aftharto-Docetism"?, and its proponent was the Bishop of Halicarnassos Julianos." I see that it was an unsigned comment however.

Cheers, Angellight 888 00:10, June 4, 2009 (UTC)

Hi Angellight, given the number of users we have, this sounds like an awful lot of work. I'd rather just clean up occasionally as needed, but let me keep my eyes open for another solution. — FrJohn (talk) 00:17, June 4, 2009 (UTC)
other forums require that you Verify your "humanity" by typing into a box the combination of numbers/letters you can see on the screen to verify that you are indeed "real" and not a bot. maybe that is all you need. Vasiliki 00:51, June 4, 2009 (UTC)
Yep, was just posting that I've just installed a captcha test for new user registrations. It won't block disturbed individuals, but should help with the automated creation of accounts from multiple un-blacklisted IPs where email verification can be performed. Amazing we have to deal with that, eh? — FrJohn (talk) 00:55, June 4, 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, you have to wonder why they havent got better things to do than hurl abuse at people who are minding their own business ... I learnt something yesterday. A priest called Fr Demetrius wrote an email about praying for the deceased soul of a "george" who was a pro-abortionist in America. When you read with what tenderness and love Fr Demetrius writes about this "sinner" you realise how much we just pity these people - for they know not what they do. Vasiliki 01:04, June 4, 2009 (UTC)
The only effect really is to drain a little bit of my time away :-(. — FrJohn (talk)
Hey, I just did an EDIT on an article and it asked me to fill out a box ... is this going to be the standard practise from now on for editing as it will grow tedious I think for regulars? Vasiliki 01:37, June 4, 2009 (UTC)
Whoops, I'll fix this. — FrJohn (talk) 01:43, June 4, 2009 (UTC)
I missed the setting that said "Require captcha when user edits page and adds a link" - let me know if it happens again! — FrJohn (talk)
Sure, also while I have you and you are in a good mood :D I would like to ask for a favour (as far as practical) my heart is to complete the most comprehensive Table of Saints (in Chronological order) - as you can witness by this new article. At present, I am systematically and patiently working through the information ON OrthodoxWiki ... how can I identify saints I have missed NOT listed on OrthodoxWiki. Do you have any suggestions? Vasiliki 01:53, June 4, 2009 (UTC)
Wow! Sounds like a big job. I guess you'd have to check the websites of the various Orthodox jurisdictions around the world, or get your hands on a really good synaxarion (I like the one published by at Ormylia) and refer to its index. — FrJohn (talk) 01:56, June 4, 2009 (UTC)

Glitch

See this. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 01:59, July 8, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, message left. — FrJohn (talk) 05:38, July 8, 2009 (UTC)

Sysop.

Hello Fr. John. I am a Greek Orthodox user. I was wonderign if you can add me as a sysop to help you out with the site. I have a lot of time on my hands.

In his service, --Greeks 15:23, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Hello!

Hi sir! I would like to create a project OrthodoxWiki dutch language and I have rights bureaucrat, administrator, renameuser, Checkuser and oversight, thanks. —Mister lasă-mi un mesaj 17:23, February 20, 2010 (UTC)ﻧ

You are active or no? For 2 months you no response me. --—Mister lasă-mi un mesaj 15:15, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

Many Orthodox believers have asked about the Icon of Christ and the Ancient of Days and confusing this elder sitting next to Christ with God the Father. They are not alone, for the entire Roman Catholic Church believes that this is the case and their belief has by the process of osmosis been picked up by many of our clergy and this icon has been ejected from many of our Churches. It is not true for the Ancient of Days is the Son of God who was begotten before all time. If they recall, Christ in the incarnation had divested Himself of those signs of being God and had assumed the appearance of a mere servant. The icon of the Platytera teaches us that the Holy Virgin's womb contained the "uncontainable, therefore those aspects of God the Son of God remained in the mystery of Heaven. Read on with what I have written:




QUESTION:


v Do you recall ever having seen this icon of Jesus Christ holding his cross, sitting at the right of an elderly man with white hair?

       at their feet there are cherubic figures, and about them there are clouds. They both have a nimbus above their head and above them
       there is a white dove, sometimes within a circle or a triangle.         

v Is there anything incorrect about it ? v Why is it not found in today’s churches ? v What is its origin ?


For those of us who are old enough, this icon is familiar. We had seen it in most of the Greek Orthodox Churches when we were children. It was located on the iconostasion on the right side of the royal entrance, the spot currently occupied by the icon of Christ. I do remember it in St. Sophia Cathedral (until the 1960’s) and in the Holy Trinity Church in Waterbury, Connecticut (in the 1920’-30’s). St. Sophia’s oldest icons were contributed to a more recently established parish in Virginia and this icon was still in use there as of seven years ago.

What is wrong with it? It has a perfectly good representation of Christ. He is seated at the right hand of an elderly man who is giving a blessing and they are both apparently seated in majesty in heaven. There are little, western style cherubs at their feet. The elderly man supposedly represents God the Father. Instead of a halo, His head is usually surrounded by a triangle which, I presume, represents the Holy Trinity. I have heard of Him in this representation being named the “Ancient of Days.” What is wrong with all this is that God the Father is purely spirit and cannot be portrayed in any manner. Christ said in the New Testament, “When you see Me, you see my Father.” This is the reason why this icon has been supplanted by one of Christ alone, for when we see Christ in an icon, we see the Father.

How did we come to portray God the Father in this manner? I could not discover the answer in any book on iconography or theology available to me. It was not until I came across a passage in the Septuagint Scriptures that I found the answer in the Book of Daniel chapter VII, verses 9 - 10 and 13 - 14.

[9] I beheld until the thrones were set, and the Ancient of days sat; and his raiment was white as snow, and the hair of his head as pure wool: his throne was a flame of fire, and his wheels burning fire. [10] A stream of fire rushed forth before him: thousand thousands ministered to him, and ten thousands of myriads attended upon him: the judgment sat, and the books were opened. [13] I beheld in the night vision, and, lo, one coming with the clouds of heaven as the Son of Man, and he came on to the Ancient of Days, and was brought near to him. [14] And to him was given the dominion, and the honour,and the kingdom; and all the nations, tribes, and languages, shall serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom shall not be destroyed.

This vision and prophesy of Daniel has been identified, in both Latin Catholic and Protestant sources as a prefiguration of God the Father and the powers and glory which He has bestowed upon God the Son, Jesus Christ - the Son of Man. This passage may have been the source of the artistic rendering of God the Father as the “Ancient of Days.” Whether this conception was original with our iconographers or was influenced by the realistic presentations of western artists is not known. Indeed we have a prime example of this in Michaelangelo’s painting of God in the Sistine Chapel and the western style cherubs at their feet. His portraiture is that of an old man with white hair and a white beard, reaching out with his finger to endow Adam with life. None of these features are found in Orthodox iconography and their being in this icon suggests the influence of western imaging since large portions of Greece had been occupied for several centuries by Venetian, Catalan and other Latins.

Regardless of its origins, this icon is considered erroneous today.

Providence has a way of providing us with truths to heal our ignorance. I believe that I have discovered the significance of this icon while reading A Discourse On the Nativity of Christ by St. Gregory Thaumatourgos, Bishop of Neo-Caesarea (died 260) . He wrote:

“The new wonders do strike me with awe. The Ancient of Days is become a Child, to make people children of God. Sitting in glory in the Heavens, because of His love for mankind, He now layeth in a manger of dumb beasts.”

Do the words of Gregory’s statement imply that this icon could represent a “double image” of Christ? First as the “Ancient of Days”, the only-begotten Son of God, born before all ages. Adjacent to Him is the younger Incarnate Jesus Christ, Son of Man(-kind) as He appeared to us on earth in His kenotic form (i.e. when He “emptied Himself” and “became as a base servant”). Gone would be the mistaken identification of the Ancient of Days as God the Father, which is the mainstay of western explanations. Such an interpretation of this icon sheds a completely new light upon it, a light which may render it theologically legitimate. Even so St. Gregory goes on to say: “The Impassionate, Incorporeal, Incomprehensible One is taken by human hands, in order to atone the violence of sinners.” If the Ancient of Days has these chacteristics, is it permissible to portray him in an icon? Does the fact that He becomes incarnate as Jesus Christ repeal the prohibition of showing Him as an aged man? However, St. Gregory’s words have allowed me to learn the true meaning of this prophesy from the Book of Daniel. It is a prophesy of the Parousia, the Second Coming of Christ, when the “books will be opened” and the “secrets of men will be revealed.” I am thankful to have gained this knowledge so that I can look upon this icon with greater appreciation. Later yet, I discovered that there is an icon in St. Katherine’s Monastery at Sinai which depicts the Ancient of Days, and on his lap rests Jesus as a child. This icon is said to confirm the concept voiced by St. Gregory that The Ancient of Days is the heavenly manifestation of the Son of God.

The Ancient of Days with a child Jesus Christ on His Lap, 12th century At St. Katherine’s Monastery Church, Mt. Sinai (You can find this icon on the internet)

Psalter quote

Father John, Bless! My name is Manoli and I'm an 18 year old recent high school graduate. I am distantly acquainted with Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick and I'm writing an essay for the PanHellenic Foundation, trying to get a scholarship for college. I want to use the "golden thread" quote from "one modern commentator" on the OrthodoxWiki "Psalter" page. If you know who that person is, or who would know who that person is, I'd appreciate any info...Fr. Andrew doesn't and although I'm registered on OrthodoxWiki as CampNazFanatic, I don't know much about using the site so I decided to contact you. Please respond asap as this essay is due like tomorrow. Thanks, Manoli --CampNazFanaticCampNazFanatic

IMAGES ISSUES

Warm greetings Fr. John,

I hope it is okay that I am contacting you directly, but this problem has not been resolved for some time. Could you kindly look into rectifying the long-standing problem with uploaded images not displaying - they do not display once they are uploaded and they do not display especially as thumbnails.

See here: the Gallery of New Image Files;

I had left a note at the OrthodoxWiki Trapeza here regarding this error some time ago, but it has gone unanswered and the problem is not resolved.

Surely there must be a process to have this investigated? -- i.e. Where is the OW site hosted? Which person(s)/webmasters or what entity is in charge of maintenance? Who needs to be called? Who is in control? And WHERE is their accountability???? Why have they ignored this for so long? Was this change done intentionally for some reason and if so why is there no notice informing the users? This problem has persisted for a very long time now, and it appears that it is a feature that has been disabled. If it stays non-functional this way I fear that this will discourage further users from wanting to contribute to OW. If there is something I have overlooked apologies in advance. Hoping something can be done.
Thanks and kind regards :) Angellight 888 05:49, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Hi Angellight -- I apologize for the frustration. Sadly, it is I -- the negligent webmaster. and the volunteer in charge of site maintenance (but with many distractions). Please be assured that there is nothing intentional in the problem - the site just needs an upgrade. Because of the way the databases are tied together for each localization, it gets a little complex. I will strive to find some time to fix this soon. — FrJohn (talk) 07:28, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
Many thanks for the info dear Fr.; good to know the site will be eventually upgraded and that this will be addressed then. Please forgive my initial frustration. This is a wonderful resource and I hope to see it grow. Cheers, Angellight 888 18:55, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
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