User talk:Basil

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Below is my editing of the article on [[wikipedia:tithe|tithe]] from wikipedia. Feel free to make suggestions, but wait to make edits until I put it in the unstarted [[tithe]] article. Place suggestions here:
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Hi Basil!
  
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I just finally got around to checking this message that you left for me a few months ago (copied below) and I appreciate the heads up!  I understand that our articles should pertain to Orthodox Christianity.  Nevertheless, I was hoping the articles deleted could in future be an explanation of Orthodox views on those religions - i.e. a more accurate explanation of how they are "break-aways" from our ancient Church and anything Christian about them they simply copied from us.  That being said and given the views of the editors for OrthodoxWiki, why then do there exist articles about Roman Catholicism?
  
_Hey, it looks great to me, Basil. No typos that I noticed or anything. And I was going to suggest linking to the "Tithes and Firstfruits" article, but then I saw that you were ahead of me. Just don't forget to add the cat when you do the actual article. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 20:50, November 26, 2006 (PST)
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Thanks again.
  
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In Christ,
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-p
  
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Dear Paulglass4u:
  
= tithe article from wikipedia =
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After some discussion with FrJohn, founder and lead sysop, I've deleted the articles you recently added on Lutheranism, Protestantism, and Old Catholicism.
  
A '''tithe''' (from Old English ''teogoþa'', "tenth") is a one-tenth part of something, paid as a contribution to the Church as a part of Christian [[stewardship]]. Because it is voluntary and based on percentage of income, it is distinct from the concept of a ''due''. Today, tithes (or ''tithing'') are normally voluntary and paid in cash, checks, or electronic funds transfers, whereas historically tithes could be paid in kind, such as agricultural products. Several European countries operate a formal process linked to the tax system allowing some churches to assess tithes.
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An important feature of the subject orientation of OrthodoxWiki is that articles should pertain to Orthodox Christianity. (See the article on what OrthodoxWiki is about.) An article about the (purely hypothetical) Middle Earth Faux Baptist Convention would need to include information about the relations between Middle Earth Faux Baptists and Middle Earth Orthodox (such as Saint Gandalf the White), if there are any. Otherwise, users are free to use the Wikipedia project to learn more about the Middle Earth Faux Baptists.
  
==Tithing in the Bible==
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I should note that a few of the pages you added had been deleted multiple times previously, so you're certainly not the first editor to make this mistake.
The tithe and tithing first appear in the [[Bible]] in the in the book of [[Genesis]] in connection with the prophet and patriarch [[Abraham]]. The origin of tithing is intimately linked with both Abraham's cultural background and the figure of the Canaanite king and priest [[Melchizedek]].
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===Old Testament origins===
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There is quite a lot to be said about the relationship of Orthodoxy to the sects and movements you were speaking of (think Cyril Lucaris, for example). However, such pages need to be concise and exclusively focused on their relations to Orthodoxy.
====In the time of Abraham====
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According to the [[Genesis]] account, [[Abraham|Abram]], returning from a battle by the [[Dead Sea]], was hailed by [[Melchizedek]], king of Salem ([[Jerusalem]]) who was also the priest of [[El Elyon]] ("the Most High God"):
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:Melchizedek king of Salem brought bread and wine; he was a priest of God Most High. He pronounced this blessing:
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Thanks for your work editing. Let me know if you have any questions.
  
:Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth.
 
:And blessed be God Most High for putting your enemies into your clutches.
 
  
:And Abram gave him a tenth of everything.
 
:Genesis 14:18-20 (NJB)
 
  
When Melchizedek appeared and offered Abram bread and wine and blessed him in the name of [[God]], tithes were exchanged. Some scholars note that this tithe was possibly rooted in a ten percent tax common in Babylonian culture at the time. In any case, the Biblical practice of tithing is rooted in this exchange between the prophet and patriarch Abraham and the priest-king Melchizidek, who is a type of Christ.
 
  
====In the time of Moses====
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:::  
The tithe is specifically mentioned in [[Numbers]] and also in  [[Deuteronomy]] in connection with the establishment of Jewish worship by [[Moses]]. Numbers 18:24-28 concerns the tribe of [[Levi]], and especially the family of [[Aaron]]. Because members of the tribe of Levi were assistants to Aaron, his family, and the Israelite priests and did not own or inherit a territorial patrimony, goods donated from the other Israeli tribes were their source of sustenance. They received from "all Israel" a tithe of food or livestock for support, but would first set aside a portion of that tithe for the priests.
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Forgive my mistakes, I would like to contribute, I speak Italian and English will wait a little step by step instructions fr. John.  
 
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I do not know where to put my contributions in Italian, because we do not have the site in Italian, forgive me! [[User:Raggiodisole|Raggiodisole]] 10:03, February 23, 2011 (UTC)
====In the time of King [[Hezekiah]]====
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[[LMLK seal]]s may represent the oldest archaeological evidence of tithing.  About 10 percent of the storage jars manufactured during [[Hezekiah]]'s reign (circa 700 BC) were stamped (Grena, 2004, pp. 376-8).  See [[Books of Chronicles|2 Chronicles]] 29-31 for a record of this early worship reformation.
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====Tithing in the Books of the Prophets====
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[[Tobit]] 1:6-8 provides an example of all three classes of tithes practiced during the Babylonian exile:
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''But I alone went often to [[Jerusalem]] at the feasts, as it was ordained unto all the people of [[Israel]] by an everlasting decree, having the firstfruits and tenths of increase, with that which was first shorn; and them gave I at the altar to the priests the children of Aaron.  The first tenth part of all increase I gave to the sons of Aaron, who ministered at [[Jerusalem]]: another tenth part I sold away, and went, and spent it every year at [[Jerusalem]]: And the third I gave unto them to whom it was meet, as Debora my father's mother had commanded me...''
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Jews, Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant Christians who tithe, understand that no man may outdo God in the act of [[charity]]. (Malachi [http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/r/rsv/rsv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=3574267 3:8-12]):
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:''' 8''' ''Will man rob God? Yet you are robbing me. But you say, `How are we robbing thee?' In your tithes and offerings.''
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:''' 9''' ''You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me; the whole nation of you.''
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:'''10''' ''Bring the full tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house; and thereby put me to the test, says the LORD of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you an overflowing blessing.''
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:'''11''' ''I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of your soil; and your vine in the field shall not fail to bear, says the LORD of hosts.''
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:'''12''' ''Then all nations will call you blessed, for you will be a land of delight, says the LORD of hosts.''
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:'''Revised Standard Edition'''
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===Tithing in the New Testament===
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According to Saint [[Apostle Paul|Paul]] the Apostle, it was common practice in the New Testament Church to provide for ministers of the Gospel (1Cor 9:9-14). Though he himself was demonstrating that he did not participate in this practice, for the sake of building up new communities, the clear implication is that the practice was commonplace.
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In the beginning this was supplied by the spontaneous offerings of the faithful. In the course of time, however, as the Church expanded and various institutions arose, it became necessary to write canons which would ensure the proper and permanent support of the clergy.
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Christians support the [[Church]] and her [[pastor]]s with monetary contributions of one sort or another. Sometimes these monetary contributions are called tithes whether or not they actually represent ten-percent of anything.  However, as tithing was an ingrained Jewish custom by the time of [[Jesus]], no specific command to tithe per se is found in the [[New Testament]]. References to tithing in the New Testament can be found in [[Gospel of Matthew|Matthew]], [[Gospel of Luke|Luke]], and the catholic epistle to the [[Hebrews]]. 
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For Catholics, the payment of tithes was adopted from the Old Law, and early writers speak of it as a divine ordinance and an obligation of conscience, rather than any direct command by Jesus Christ.
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Some Protestant denominations cite {{bibleref|Matthew|23:23}} as support for tithing.    
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:''Away with you, you pettifogging Pharisee lawyers! You give to God a tenth of herbs, like mint, dill, and cumin, but the important duties of the Law -- judgement, mercy, honesty -- you have neglected. Yet these you ought to have performed, without neglecting the others.''
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:(Albright & Mann, '''Matthew, Anchor Bible''', Vol. 26 (1971))
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and its parallel Luke 11:42
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:''Woe to you, Pharisees! You tithe mint and rue and every edible herb but disregard justice and the love of God.  These were rather the things one should practice, without neglecting the others.''
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:(Fitzmyer, '''Luke, Anchor Bible''', Vol.l, 28A (1985))
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Because of Jesus' specific mention of tithe in this passage, it is often felt that he thereby gave his endorsement to the practice of tithing in general and specifically to tithing herbs like mint, dill and cumin. Some scholars disagree, however, pointing out that Jesus was simply obeying Mosaic law as an obedient Jew.
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The only other occurrence of "tithe" in the New Testament is found in Hebrews, chapter 7. Hebrews is an attempt to convince Jewish Christians that the entire sanctuary system, especially its priesthood, had been replaced by the Melchizedek-type high priesthood of Jesus Christ and the individual priesthood of every believer. Chapter 7 uses the ineffectiveness of tithing to illustrate that the laws governing the priesthood (including tithing) were "changed" and "abolished" (7:5, 12, 18).
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However, the book "Anabasis" by the Greek writer Xenophon mentions tithing in connection with the burnt offering sacrifices he made to his pagan god. How both cultures related, borrowed ideas from each other, and intermingled is aptly displayed by such overt Hellenistic influences
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in Judaic tomes, such as the Pentateuch.
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==Modern-day teachings==
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It is thought that tithes were not adopted by the Western [[church]] for over seven centuries.  Although rejected, they were mentioned in councils at Tours in 567 and at Mâcon in 585. They were formally recognized under Pope Adrian I in 787. Tithing in non-Orthodox Christian groups today is frequently preached from the pulpit, but various denominations and sects view tithing differently.
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In recent years, tithing has been revived in Orthodox Churches as a form of [[stewardship]] that God requires of Christians.  The primary argument is that God has never formally abolished the tithe, and thus Christians should pay the tithe (usually calculated at 10 percent of all gross income from all sources), usually to the local congregation (though some teach that a part of the tithe can go to other Christian ministries, so long as total giving is at least 10 percent). Jurisdictions that have encouraged shifting from a system of dues to tithe-based stewardship include the [[Orthodox Church in America]] and the [[Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America|Antiochian Archdiocese of North America]].
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==Tithes and taxes==
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Several European countries collect tithes on behalf of church organizations along with state taxes. For more information on this subject, see the [[wikipedia:tithe|Wikipedia article on tithes]].
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==See also==
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*"[[Tithes and Firstfruits]]," by Father Dmitri Cozby
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*"[[The Theology of Giving]]," by Father Dmitri Cozby
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==References==
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{{citations missing}}
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*Albright, W. F. and Mann, C. S.  ''Matthew, The Anchor Bible'', Vol. 26.  Garden City, New York, 1971.
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*''The Assyrian Dictionary of the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago'', Vol. 4 "E." Chicago, 1958.
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*Fitzmyer, Joseph A.  ''The Gospel According to Luke, X-XXIV, The Anchor Bible'', Vol. 28A.  New York, 1985.
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* {{cite book | author=Grena, G.M. | year=2004 | title=LMLK--A Mystery Belonging to the King vol. 1 | location=Redondo Beach, California | publisher=4000 Years of Writing History | id=ISBN 0-9748786-0-X}}
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*Speiser, E. A.  ''Genesis, The Anchor Bible'', Vol.1.  Garden City, New York, 1964.
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* Kelly, Russell Earl, "Should the Church Teach Tithing? A Theologian's Conclusions about a Taboo Doctrine," IUniverse, 2001.
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[[Category:Asceticism]]
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[[Category:Stewardship]]
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Latest revision as of 02:03, February 23, 2011

Hi Basil!

I just finally got around to checking this message that you left for me a few months ago (copied below) and I appreciate the heads up! I understand that our articles should pertain to Orthodox Christianity. Nevertheless, I was hoping the articles deleted could in future be an explanation of Orthodox views on those religions - i.e. a more accurate explanation of how they are "break-aways" from our ancient Church and anything Christian about them they simply copied from us. That being said and given the views of the editors for OrthodoxWiki, why then do there exist articles about Roman Catholicism?

Thanks again.

In Christ, -p

Dear Paulglass4u:

After some discussion with FrJohn, founder and lead sysop, I've deleted the articles you recently added on Lutheranism, Protestantism, and Old Catholicism.

An important feature of the subject orientation of OrthodoxWiki is that articles should pertain to Orthodox Christianity. (See the article on what OrthodoxWiki is about.) An article about the (purely hypothetical) Middle Earth Faux Baptist Convention would need to include information about the relations between Middle Earth Faux Baptists and Middle Earth Orthodox (such as Saint Gandalf the White), if there are any. Otherwise, users are free to use the Wikipedia project to learn more about the Middle Earth Faux Baptists.

I should note that a few of the pages you added had been deleted multiple times previously, so you're certainly not the first editor to make this mistake.

There is quite a lot to be said about the relationship of Orthodoxy to the sects and movements you were speaking of (think Cyril Lucaris, for example). However, such pages need to be concise and exclusively focused on their relations to Orthodoxy.

Thanks for your work editing. Let me know if you have any questions.



Forgive my mistakes, I would like to contribute, I speak Italian and English will wait a little step by step instructions fr. John. I do not know where to put my contributions in Italian, because we do not have the site in Italian, forgive me! Raggiodisole 10:03, February 23, 2011 (UTC)

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