Talk:St. Petroc Monastery (Cascades, Tasmania)

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==Deletion 3-Nov==
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*Archive 1 of Discussion: [[Talk:St._Petroc_Monastery_(Cascades,_Tasmania)/Archive 1|2-4/Nov]]
I'm not sure why the whole article was deleted - the article as part of the Orthodoxy in Australia series was okay. The attempt at character assassination on a monastic wasn't. I'm a little suspicious based upon the statement 'baptized and chrismated by ROCOR due to "previous ordination"' - suggesting a lack of familiarity with reception into the Orthodox Church, or the standard practices of ROCOR. In any case, the article should stick to the facts of the monastery - and the ecclesiastical life of its members. Information from ROCOR AUS/NZ would be best. And, of course, the article should be under the title Saint Petroc Monastery - its official title (no 'of' and Saint unabbreviated.) - Aristibule
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: I reverted the blankingFeel free to edit the article to be more correct and charitable. {{User:ASDamick/sig}} 20:01, 2 November 2005 (CST)
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==Protecting of 4/Nov==
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This article has been protected because of a long sequence of editsA few days to cool the keyboards, I think, are in order.  All edits on this article should in future, imho, be done with official information (ie Monastery or Diocesan) to avoid this kind of editing based on unverifiable personal experience or hearsay or whatnot. -- [[User:Pistevo|Pistevo]] 20:21, 3 November 2005 (CST)
  
::I corrected minor items, removed the bio for now until an official one is received from the Archdiocese: I believe that is the source for the episcopal biographies on Orthodoxwiki? In any case, the bio was irrelevant to the article and included details that don't pertain to the life of a monastic. The numbers of those at the monastery has changed over time - novices have come and gone. I'll flesh out the article later from official sources, and also provide a companion article for sister monastery in the US. - Aristibule
+
:I think we'll freeze the article here for awhile. By my judgment, it contains some good information about the monastery, without getting into anything contentious. I've reverted "various parts of the military" back to "seamen" in light of this clarification from Fr. Michael: "seamen" refers to all mariners - mostly merchant seamen (Webster's defines a seaman as a person skilled in seamanship .....)" [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]] 22:49, 4 November 2005 (CST)
  
: Most of the bios on OrthodoxWiki are from official sources, news sources, and historical references. That is, they're verifiable and documented, ''especially'' when including potentially controversial information. {{User:ASDamick/sig}} 20:19, 2 November 2005 (CST)
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:I've just protected the article again. Please discuss any future revisions on this talk page before they happen. Thanks. — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk]) 19:04, October 9, 2006 (CDT)
  
::Thanks, Fr. Deacon - I do think some of the items are only controversial for those who misunderstand Orthodoxy's claims, monasticism, how the canons are used, etc. However, a bias is apparent if an emphasis is made on articles about how 'small' a particular monastery is, without reference to the same in articles on other monasteries. That is of particular importance when the monastery is new, and still in the planting stages. - Aristibule
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Fr Michael of Saint Petroc Monastery has been suspended and retired by Metropolitan Hilarion. See below
  
:Two things, for information - firstly, the Biography of the Abbot was originally its own page before Fr John asked Lazar to move it to the Monastery page; secondly, 'Monastery of name (place)' was simply the standard I was following: that's the reason that it was listed as 'Monastery of St Petroc'. -- [[User:Pistevo|oea]] 21:16, 2 November 2005 (CST)
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February 23, 2013
 +
No. 2-28-13
  
Please leave them as Saint Petroc Monastery - that is the official name (I am the official webmaster for the monastery) it follows the traditional Western form. The abbreviation of Saint should not occur in the title either - and the monastery is not 'of' but named Saint Petroc. The information from the bio is incorrect, and is the product of a certain Australian personality (non-Orthodox) of whom I have been aware for a few years. That bio is *not* the official bio, which Abp. HILARION has. Thanks - Aristibule
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In view of his vioations of the canons by disrespect of the person of the Patriarch and other members of the Hierarchy, lengthy absences from his parish in Hobart, Tasmania, causing spiritual neglect of the faithful of his church community, and the constant inflammatory and unedifying negative comments which he publicly broadcasts within the religious media, bringing disrepute to the Orthodox witness of the Western Rite movement, Hieromonk Michael (Mansbridge-Wood), cleric of the Australia and New Zealand Diocese of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, is hereby suspended and relieved of all his priestly duties and obligations concerning the Western Rite in the United Kingdom and elsewhere, and is retired from active service in the Church. Given the above, any and all blessings for his websites are hereby withdrawn.
  
:Sorry, I wasn't clear.  I was just saying ''why'' the name was the way it was; the correct way is (obviously) better.  As you can probably tell simply by looking at what I personally have done on that article, I know very, very little about the Monastery, and would be very happy about the article increasing. -- [[User:Pistevo|oea]] 21:34, 2 November 2005 (CST)
+
(signed)  
 +
+Hilarion
  
Recent Major Changes: 
+
Metropolitan Hilarion,
Actually the details added to the history and the bio by me are correct.  I was concerned to place into proper perspective 2 things that were ambiguous or unclear in the earlier drafts, and some associated webpages.
+
Archbishop of Sydney, Australia and New Zealand,
 +
First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia.
  
1. The statement that "the monastery was founded in 1992," but not clarifying that it only became part of ROCOR in 1997.
+
:As this article is about St Petroc's Monastery (rather than its superior), I have added this information briefly in terms of how it affects the monasteryCurrently, there is no article about Fr Michael (and, at least for a few months, this is probably a good thing). &mdash; by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="green">Pιs</font><font color="gold">τévο</font>]] <sup>''[[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|<font color="red">complaints</font>]]''</sup> at 17:41, March 6, 2013 (HST)
 
+
2. The statement in earlier versions (and also in associated webpages) that "Hieromonk Michael comes to Australia from England in 1992" which infers that he is of English originIn fact he was born in Australia and spent most of his life there.  
+
  
The following, requoted from above, misrepresents what was written by me:
 
"I'm a little suspicious based upon the statement 'baptized and chrismated by ROCOR due to "previous ordination"' - suggesting a lack of familiarity with reception into the Orthodox Church, or the standard practices of ROCOR."
 
  
This is what was written; the wording being virtually a direct quote from an email from one of his superiors at ROCOR.
+
FYI
"Michael Wood approached ROCOR for reception. Subsequently he was received through baptism and chrismation into the Russian Orthodox Church on the basis of a his "previous ordination", with instructions to establish "Western Rite" ministeries in Australia and New Zealand."
+
a) the building where St Dyfan (40 Alexander St, Sandy Bay) was based was been sold by the University of Tasmania some time ago and so doesn't exist. Also Fr Michael has not been an accredited chaplain there for some considerable time. So stricly speaking Saint Petroc Monastery (an apartment chapel) in McRobies Road, South Hobart is now and has been the only physical manifestation of SPM.
  
Abp. Hilarion is well acquainted with the correct details.
+
b) but to add complexity, there is another ROCOR priest Fr Barry Jefferies who has also conducted services at SPM at various times, and may continue to do so because he hasn't been suspended. So I'm not sure that the comment "This means that the monastery's lone monk can no longer celebrate services." is strictly correct.
  
Lazar
+
Sorry to burden you with complexity--nothing about SPM seems straightforward.
  
 +
"Currently, there is no article about Fr Michael (and, at least for a few months, this is probably a good thing)" --couldn't agree more.
  
BTW
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:Regarding (a) - I think this has been addressed by the article's most recent edit; and regarding (b), Fr Barry is a married priest (and therefore not a monk). And of course, Fr Barry can't be an attached to a greater SPM movement because this movement probably doesn't exist anymore (given that the ukase you cited has removed the head without replacement) - if Fr Michael was a priest of the Diocese of ANZ (as per ukase), then ISTM that Fr Barry unquestionably is.
I added the bio details because most people would like to have some idea about the foundation, development and genesis of their spiritual advisors. In this case there was nothing.
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:Of course, I see the complexity :-) - does all that seem to be a good place to leave the article for now? &mdash; by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="green">Pιs</font><font color="gold">τévο</font>]] <sup>''[[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|<font color="red">complaints</font>]]''</sup> at 19:22, March 6, 2013 (HST)
  
Aristibule you say that "The information from the bio is incorrect". What exactly is incorrect?
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Yes, I think it is if you're happy.  Perhaps they might even be the final words about SPM-though one can't be certain.
  
Lazar
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Finally, again fyi Fr Michael was suspended nearly 2 years ago as well. Sometime later the suspension was lifted but with stringent restrictions on the scope of his future activies. So SPM has been on a rocky road for some time now!
  
Yes, Archbishop Hilarion is well acquainted with the correct details : he ordained said Hieromonk and is in possession of the official bio - your information rather reflects the version compiled by P. (surname withheld) a (possibly) Catholic laywoman who stalked Fr. Michael for a period in Tasmania, and was looking for 'dirt' on the Hieromonk as late as last August. The content betrays the intent : an attempt at a smear job. Depending on your identity (a secret) either you've been mislead by the wrong rumors, or are the source itself. - Aristibule
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:Just trying to make sure that it's a balanced and truthful article.  Final words: clearly much prayer is required here.  Other suspension: Yes, I remember - perhaps that's one for a future article about the man (rather than the monastery). &mdash; by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="green">Pιs</font><font color="gold">τévο</font>]] <sup>''[[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|<font color="red">complaints</font>]]''</sup> at 20:01, March 6, 2013 (HST)
 +
 
 +
 
 +
"Just trying to make sure that it's a balanced and truthful article" 
 +
I think you've done an excellent job with difficult material!! Bfn
 +
-----
 +
Some suggestions for fine tuning if you think they are worthwhile:
 +
 
 +
1. Metropolitan’s decree is now on the ROCOR website
 +
See    http://www.rocor.org.au/?p=7603
 +
 
 +
2. UTAS sold their chaplaincy building in Dec 2011 so MMW’s involvement with UTAS would have ceased earlier that year.
 +
 
 +
3. The link to SPM’s webpage is now a dead link.
 +
 
 +
4. The locality for SPM is given as “Cascades”.  This is not strictly correct because there is no such suburb, and “Cascades” does not appear on the Australia Post list of postcodes.  “Cascades’ is used loosely by locals to describe the general area below Mt Wellington in Hobart.  SPM is located in McRobies Road, “South Hobart” with postcode 7000
 +
 
 +
 
 +
2nd April 2013
 +
 
 +
Fr Michael has "left rocor"  see http://westernorthodoxchristian.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/fr-michael-woods-leaves-rocor-mp.html
 +
 
 +
He has announced on facebook a new affiliation:
 +
"On the 15th of March, I was notified in writing of my reception by his eminence, Metropolitan Daniel of the Metropolitanate of Moscow (TOC-R). This was followed by the necessary decrees. The decrees stated that I am a Hieromonk of Metropolitan Daniel's diocese, resident in the United Kingdom."
 +
 
 +
There is also a reference to his new role at  http://orthodoxwesternrite.wordpress.com/becoming-western-rite-in-uk-europe/
 +
 
 +
I'm not sure how this should be integrated with existing material.
 +
 
 +
:Hopefully the changes made yesterday have dealt with most of these.
 +
:The exception being number 4, and TBH, I'd incline more towards just deleting the location entirely, since the monastery is clearly no longer there (how can something with no building and no resident be called a monastery?). &mdash; by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="green">Pιs</font><font color="gold">τévο</font>]] <sup>''[[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|<font color="red">complaints</font>]]''</sup> at 21:08, April 8, 2013 (HST)
 +
 
 +
I agree with Pistevo. The simplest thing would be to delete it. --[[User:Fr Lev|Fr Lev]] 02:39, April 9, 2013 (HST)ﻜ
 +
 
 +
 
 +
Using the past tense for the latest changes to the SPM page may be a little premature.
 +
 
 +
His "leaving ROCOR" letter says that the "Hobart mission" will continue to be viable even without him.  The only physical manifestation of SPM is now the flat in South Hobart which apparently will remain active.
 +
 
 +
Again there is nothing straightforward about SPM!
 +
 
 +
From http://westernorthodoxchristian.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/fr-michael-woods-leaves-rocor-mp.html
 +
 
 +
“...I have accordingly, held a meeting of the main people of our Hobart mission, where I explained to them what has happened, the vicious politics and the changes in ROCOR. I told them that I could no longer stay in ROCOR. They were already aware of some of my feelings. The Mission will remain intact under Metropolitan Hilarion, with Fr Barry in charge - as has been the practice for some considerable time...”
 +
 
 +
 
 +
Also you may want to reference his new letter of “commission”
 +
 
 +
 
 +
http://www.facebook.com/vladykadaniel.mogutnov Dmitry Mogutnov Reverend Michael was adopted by Us Our Amofor.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
Reverend Hieromonk Michael (Mansbridge-Wood)
 +
 
 +
5/18 March 2013.
 +
 
 +
Decree 04
 +
 
 +
Taking into account the letter of release 2-28/13 on February 23, 2013 His Eminence Hilarion, Metropolitan of Eastern America and New York, First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church, as well as a petition filed by Hieromonk Michael (Mansbridge-Wood), about taking it to the fold True Orthodox Church, Fr Michael (Mansbridge-Wood) is accepted into the clergy of the diocese of Volokolamsk and Kolomna True Orthodox Church.
 +
 
 +
God help you!
 +
 
 +
+ Metropolitan Volokolamsk and Kolomna DANIEL
 +
 
 +
Reverend Hieromonk Michael (Mansbridge-Wood)
 +
 
 +
5/18 March 2013.
 +
 
 +
Decree 05
 +
 
 +
The place of service Hieromonk Michael (Mansbridge-Wood) is determined United Kingdom
 +
 
 +
:I understand the desire to be thorough, as usually I tend to share it to a fault...I can't help but think, though, that until St Petroc's actually produces something tangible, there's not much need for updates to this article - words can only go so far.  The flat may continue to be his (or rented by him), but it's clearly not active - his work is in the UK, according to his new decree.  I will add the part where the Hobart community have stayed in the Church, though. &mdash; by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="green">Pιs</font><font color="gold">τévο</font>]] <sup>''[[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|<font color="red">complaints</font>]]''</sup> at 11:46, April 14, 2013 (HST)

Latest revision as of 13:46, April 14, 2013

Protecting of 4/Nov

This article has been protected because of a long sequence of edits. A few days to cool the keyboards, I think, are in order. All edits on this article should in future, imho, be done with official information (ie Monastery or Diocesan) to avoid this kind of editing based on unverifiable personal experience or hearsay or whatnot. -- Pistevo 20:21, 3 November 2005 (CST)

I think we'll freeze the article here for awhile. By my judgment, it contains some good information about the monastery, without getting into anything contentious. I've reverted "various parts of the military" back to "seamen" in light of this clarification from Fr. Michael: "seamen" refers to all mariners - mostly merchant seamen (Webster's defines a seaman as a person skilled in seamanship .....)" Fr. John 22:49, 4 November 2005 (CST)
I've just protected the article again. Please discuss any future revisions on this talk page before they happen. Thanks. — FrJohn (talk) 19:04, October 9, 2006 (CDT)

Fr Michael of Saint Petroc Monastery has been suspended and retired by Metropolitan Hilarion. See below

February 23, 2013 No. 2-28-13

In view of his vioations of the canons by disrespect of the person of the Patriarch and other members of the Hierarchy, lengthy absences from his parish in Hobart, Tasmania, causing spiritual neglect of the faithful of his church community, and the constant inflammatory and unedifying negative comments which he publicly broadcasts within the religious media, bringing disrepute to the Orthodox witness of the Western Rite movement, Hieromonk Michael (Mansbridge-Wood), cleric of the Australia and New Zealand Diocese of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, is hereby suspended and relieved of all his priestly duties and obligations concerning the Western Rite in the United Kingdom and elsewhere, and is retired from active service in the Church. Given the above, any and all blessings for his websites are hereby withdrawn.

(signed) +Hilarion

Metropolitan Hilarion, Archbishop of Sydney, Australia and New Zealand, First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia.

As this article is about St Petroc's Monastery (rather than its superior), I have added this information briefly in terms of how it affects the monastery. Currently, there is no article about Fr Michael (and, at least for a few months, this is probably a good thing). — by Pιsτévο talk complaints at 17:41, March 6, 2013 (HST)


FYI a) the building where St Dyfan (40 Alexander St, Sandy Bay) was based was been sold by the University of Tasmania some time ago and so doesn't exist. Also Fr Michael has not been an accredited chaplain there for some considerable time. So stricly speaking Saint Petroc Monastery (an apartment chapel) in McRobies Road, South Hobart is now and has been the only physical manifestation of SPM.

b) but to add complexity, there is another ROCOR priest Fr Barry Jefferies who has also conducted services at SPM at various times, and may continue to do so because he hasn't been suspended. So I'm not sure that the comment "This means that the monastery's lone monk can no longer celebrate services." is strictly correct.

Sorry to burden you with complexity--nothing about SPM seems straightforward.

"Currently, there is no article about Fr Michael (and, at least for a few months, this is probably a good thing)" --couldn't agree more.

Regarding (a) - I think this has been addressed by the article's most recent edit; and regarding (b), Fr Barry is a married priest (and therefore not a monk). And of course, Fr Barry can't be an attached to a greater SPM movement because this movement probably doesn't exist anymore (given that the ukase you cited has removed the head without replacement) - if Fr Michael was a priest of the Diocese of ANZ (as per ukase), then ISTM that Fr Barry unquestionably is.
Of course, I see the complexity :-) - does all that seem to be a good place to leave the article for now? — by Pιsτévο talk complaints at 19:22, March 6, 2013 (HST)

Yes, I think it is if you're happy. Perhaps they might even be the final words about SPM-though one can't be certain.

Finally, again fyi Fr Michael was suspended nearly 2 years ago as well. Sometime later the suspension was lifted but with stringent restrictions on the scope of his future activies. So SPM has been on a rocky road for some time now!

Just trying to make sure that it's a balanced and truthful article. Final words: clearly much prayer is required here. Other suspension: Yes, I remember - perhaps that's one for a future article about the man (rather than the monastery). — by Pιsτévο talk complaints at 20:01, March 6, 2013 (HST)


"Just trying to make sure that it's a balanced and truthful article" I think you've done an excellent job with difficult material!! Bfn


Some suggestions for fine tuning if you think they are worthwhile:

1. Metropolitan’s decree is now on the ROCOR website See http://www.rocor.org.au/?p=7603

2. UTAS sold their chaplaincy building in Dec 2011 so MMW’s involvement with UTAS would have ceased earlier that year.

3. The link to SPM’s webpage is now a dead link.

4. The locality for SPM is given as “Cascades”. This is not strictly correct because there is no such suburb, and “Cascades” does not appear on the Australia Post list of postcodes. “Cascades’ is used loosely by locals to describe the general area below Mt Wellington in Hobart. SPM is located in McRobies Road, “South Hobart” with postcode 7000


2nd April 2013

Fr Michael has "left rocor" see http://westernorthodoxchristian.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/fr-michael-woods-leaves-rocor-mp.html

He has announced on facebook a new affiliation: "On the 15th of March, I was notified in writing of my reception by his eminence, Metropolitan Daniel of the Metropolitanate of Moscow (TOC-R). This was followed by the necessary decrees. The decrees stated that I am a Hieromonk of Metropolitan Daniel's diocese, resident in the United Kingdom."

There is also a reference to his new role at http://orthodoxwesternrite.wordpress.com/becoming-western-rite-in-uk-europe/

I'm not sure how this should be integrated with existing material.

Hopefully the changes made yesterday have dealt with most of these.
The exception being number 4, and TBH, I'd incline more towards just deleting the location entirely, since the monastery is clearly no longer there (how can something with no building and no resident be called a monastery?). — by Pιsτévο talk complaints at 21:08, April 8, 2013 (HST)

I agree with Pistevo. The simplest thing would be to delete it. --Fr Lev 02:39, April 9, 2013 (HST)ﻜ


Using the past tense for the latest changes to the SPM page may be a little premature.

His "leaving ROCOR" letter says that the "Hobart mission" will continue to be viable even without him. The only physical manifestation of SPM is now the flat in South Hobart which apparently will remain active.

Again there is nothing straightforward about SPM!

From http://westernorthodoxchristian.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/fr-michael-woods-leaves-rocor-mp.html

“...I have accordingly, held a meeting of the main people of our Hobart mission, where I explained to them what has happened, the vicious politics and the changes in ROCOR. I told them that I could no longer stay in ROCOR. They were already aware of some of my feelings. The Mission will remain intact under Metropolitan Hilarion, with Fr Barry in charge - as has been the practice for some considerable time...”


Also you may want to reference his new letter of “commission”


http://www.facebook.com/vladykadaniel.mogutnov Dmitry Mogutnov Reverend Michael was adopted by Us Our Amofor.


Reverend Hieromonk Michael (Mansbridge-Wood)

5/18 March 2013.

Decree 04

Taking into account the letter of release 2-28/13 on February 23, 2013 His Eminence Hilarion, Metropolitan of Eastern America and New York, First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church, as well as a petition filed by Hieromonk Michael (Mansbridge-Wood), about taking it to the fold True Orthodox Church, Fr Michael (Mansbridge-Wood) is accepted into the clergy of the diocese of Volokolamsk and Kolomna True Orthodox Church.

God help you!

+ Metropolitan Volokolamsk and Kolomna DANIEL

Reverend Hieromonk Michael (Mansbridge-Wood)

5/18 March 2013.

Decree 05

The place of service Hieromonk Michael (Mansbridge-Wood) is determined United Kingdom

I understand the desire to be thorough, as usually I tend to share it to a fault...I can't help but think, though, that until St Petroc's actually produces something tangible, there's not much need for updates to this article - words can only go so far. The flat may continue to be his (or rented by him), but it's clearly not active - his work is in the UK, according to his new decree. I will add the part where the Hobart community have stayed in the Church, though. — by Pιsτévο talk complaints at 11:46, April 14, 2013 (HST)
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