Talk:Orthodoxy in Hawaii

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Archived discussion: [[/Jurisdictionalism and Hawaii]]
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== very good article ==
  
I made some formatting edits and also removed some POV commentary. — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk]) 22:08, May 30, 2007 (PDT)
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very good article it is missing much information though; the name of ship and captain in 1792. i have it somewhere, i have to look for it. i will add it when i find it. very good article. {{unsigned|MshKlimek}}
  
==POV==
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:That sounds good - this is just how a wiki works - one person knows a detail, another adds other information, and the article improves gradually. — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])
Nectarios, I'm not clear why you are trying to remove the association of this Russian community with ROCOR. it appears to me that you are trying to shape the article to assert that ROCOR has an exclusive canonical claim to the Hawaiian Islands. Can you be more clear about why you're making these edits?
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From an OCA point of view, Hawaii is part of North America, which constitutes is proper canonical territory, following the ''tomos'' from Moscow. I don't think this is a terribly helpful or productive battle to fight though -- we must all recognize the reality of the historical situation in America (and all the "diaspora" lands) , with all of its opportunities and challenges. Ideally, there would be a united Orthodox church in these regions, but I don't think this will happen anytime soon. I agree we need to keep proper canonical order in mind, but it shouldn't be a stick with which we beat each other with - rather, something we work towards in charity and brotherhood. — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])
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Very good article. I'll put more materials in. I have more research but I need to translate it into English from Hawaiian--Marcus
  
== Personal attacks. ==
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:There is so much info on Orthodoxy in Hawaii. There is stuff in Hawaiian about St. Innocent's visit to the Islands.  I'll try to locate it and put it up.  Great job to whomever wrote this article!  --[[User:Poepoe77|Poepoe77]] 12:40, August 28, 2007 (PDT)
  
I dont think personal attacks are proper here Fr. JohnWho moderates the moderators?  Who can I complain to? {{unsigned|Truemarc}}
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::That sounds great! I look forward to seeing this -- even just citing the sources in Hawaiian would be very helpful as a start. — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])
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=Monasteries =
  
: 1.  Who's making personal attacks?
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There are any monasteries in Hawaii? [[User:Arthasfleo|Arthasfleo]] 23:47, September 16, 2007 (PDT)
  
: 2. [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] is the chief site administrator and deals with issues regarding the administrators.
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:Not that I know of - it's not a bad idea though! — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])
  
: 3.  You can complain to any of the [[Special:Listadmins|admins]], though [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] is the top dog. &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</small> 13:41, May 31, 2007 (PDT)
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::ok. thank you [[User:Arthasfleo|Arthasfleo]] 02:34, September 18, 2007 (PDT)
  
So basically you're saying that this place has no authority, you're just running around un-regulated?
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:There is a small monastic skete on the Big Island of Hawaii, under the jurisdiction of the Greek Old-calendar Milan Synod. The priest in charge is Hieromonk Bartholomew.  -[[User:Nectarios|Nectarios]] 02:39, September 19, 2007 (PDT)
--[[User:Truemarc|Truemarc]] 13:42, May 31, 2007 (PDT)
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::Thanks, Nectarios. What do you know about the canonical status of the Milan synod? Also, do they have more than one monk there, and are they friendly to non-Milan people? I know very little about the Milan synod. Thanks! — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])
  
: Authority on OrthodoxWiki is the [[Special:Listadmins|team of admins]], presided over by [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]], who founded and runs the siteBe sure to read the various links regarding OrthodoxWiki included in the welcome message on [[User talk:Truemarc|your talk page]]&mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</small> 13:46, May 31, 2007 (PDT)
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:::The Milan Synod is an uncanonical Orthodox Christian jurisdiction.  They are the most moderate of all the Greek Old-calendarists jurisdictionsThey are very friendly to the OCA. But of course like all Old-calendarist parishes and monasteries, you may find some hostilityOf course this happens in any Orthodox Church that has one distinctive ethnic identity. They are good people. -12:52, September 22, 2007 (PDT) {{unsigned|Poepoe77}}
  
== Which Hierarch guides this site?? ==
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:::I know something about the Milan Synod. It is from [[Old Calendarists | here]]. It is a Churches "in resistance", a Florinite church. It is not a good monastery :(    [[User:Arthasfleo|Arthasfleo]] 00:40, September 20, 2007 (PDT)
  
According to Church canon law, the hierarchs have final say on anything a priest does.  So what you're saying Fr. Andrew, is that no Orthodox bishop has control over this site? A site which clearly deals with Orthodoxy and it's "image" to the world??  Perhaps Vladika Job would like to hear how his priests are running around un-supervised.
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::"Not good" here I assume just means non-canonical, outside the fold? [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])
[[User:Truemarc|Truemarc]] 13:47, May 31, 2007 (PDT)
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: I encourage you to read the [[OrthodoxWiki:Frequently Asked Questions|FAQ]] linked to on [[User talk:Truemarc|your talk page]], which answers many of your questions.  I'm also fairly sure that Abp. Job would be proud of the fine work Fr. John has been doing here for nearly three years, but I also imagine that the latter wouldn't mind if you contacted the former to discuss it with him!  But of course Fr. John can speak for himself on this matter. &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</small> 13:52, May 31, 2007 (PDT)
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:::Not good from all of the points of view. Cannonical, salvation, and likeable for God. I love our church, not the schismatic one. :) [[User:Arthasfleo|Arthasfleo]] 03:18, September 21, 2007 (PDT)
  
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::::The old-Calendarists are a good and faithful people.  I don't agree with their politics, but they are very much Orthodox Christians. They are uncanonical, which means their canonical autonomy is not recognized because they do not commune with the Ecumenical Throne.  This does not mean they lack canonicity, which is something completely different.  Remember Russia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Georgia and many of the other autocephalous churches were out of communion with Constantinople at some time in their history and labelled "uncanonical".  Were they schismatics?  Were they not liked by God?  There are many Russian saints who were proclaimed during the schism between Russia and Constantinople after the Council of Florence.  Were they not saints?  Were they not Orthodox?  In the 90s the Moscow Patriarch broke off communion with the Constantinople Patriarch, was Pat Alexey II a schismatic?  Of course not! -[[User:Nectarios|Nectarios]] 12:19, September 22, 2007 (PDT)
  
So Vladika Job doesnt know of this??  You realise you need your bishop's permission. Do you have yours Fr. Andrew?
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::Friends, forgive me! I've edited some of the comments to try to take out the personal elements. The issue of the Old Calendarists can be difficult - there are real and remaining tensions. We should recognize the histories involved, while not making light of the profound significance of schism. — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk]) 14:34, September 22, 2007 (PDT)
[[User:Truemarc|Truemarc]] 14:11, May 31, 2007 (PDT)
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: Yep.  In fact, he and I have talked on the phone about elements in the article we have here about him.  &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</small> 14:17, May 31, 2007 (PDT)
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==Iveron Icon==
 
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Something should be written for our Holy Icon here in HawaiiI will ask permission from the Icon's Guardian to include somethingPeople should know about this.
== Scarey! ==
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It is very scarey that you are not being guided by a bishopYou are espousing the Orthodox faith to people who do not know of it, and you are not being guided by a bishop??
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This is unbelievableThe Church has strict rules against this sort of thing.  So whatever your personal bias is, that is TRUTH??  This is wrong.  There should be a bishop guiding this site.
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[[User:Truemarc|Truemarc]] 14:01, May 31, 2007 (PDT)
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One more thing: whenever a priest writes an article or a book, it MUST be approved by a bishop.  And not just any bishop, your bishop.  A community of priests who moderate each other.  What are you Old-believers?  :-)
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[[User:Truemarc|Truemarc]] 14:09, May 31, 2007 (PDT)
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Latest revision as of 11:03, February 10, 2012

very good article

very good article it is missing much information though; the name of ship and captain in 1792. i have it somewhere, i have to look for it. i will add it when i find it. very good article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MshKlimek (talkcontribs) .

That sounds good - this is just how a wiki works - one person knows a detail, another adds other information, and the article improves gradually. — FrJohn (talk)

Very good article. I'll put more materials in. I have more research but I need to translate it into English from Hawaiian--Marcus

There is so much info on Orthodoxy in Hawaii. There is stuff in Hawaiian about St. Innocent's visit to the Islands. I'll try to locate it and put it up. Great job to whomever wrote this article! --Poepoe77 12:40, August 28, 2007 (PDT)
That sounds great! I look forward to seeing this -- even just citing the sources in Hawaiian would be very helpful as a start. — FrJohn (talk)

Monasteries

There are any monasteries in Hawaii? Arthasfleo 23:47, September 16, 2007 (PDT)

Not that I know of - it's not a bad idea though! — FrJohn (talk)
ok. thank you Arthasfleo 02:34, September 18, 2007 (PDT)
There is a small monastic skete on the Big Island of Hawaii, under the jurisdiction of the Greek Old-calendar Milan Synod. The priest in charge is Hieromonk Bartholomew. -Nectarios 02:39, September 19, 2007 (PDT)
Thanks, Nectarios. What do you know about the canonical status of the Milan synod? Also, do they have more than one monk there, and are they friendly to non-Milan people? I know very little about the Milan synod. Thanks! — FrJohn (talk)
The Milan Synod is an uncanonical Orthodox Christian jurisdiction. They are the most moderate of all the Greek Old-calendarists jurisdictions. They are very friendly to the OCA. But of course like all Old-calendarist parishes and monasteries, you may find some hostility. Of course this happens in any Orthodox Church that has one distinctive ethnic identity. They are good people. -12:52, September 22, 2007 (PDT) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Poepoe77 (talkcontribs) .
I know something about the Milan Synod. It is from here. It is a Churches "in resistance", a Florinite church. It is not a good monastery :( Arthasfleo 00:40, September 20, 2007 (PDT)
"Not good" here I assume just means non-canonical, outside the fold? — FrJohn (talk)
Not good from all of the points of view. Cannonical, salvation, and likeable for God. I love our church, not the schismatic one. :) Arthasfleo 03:18, September 21, 2007 (PDT)
The old-Calendarists are a good and faithful people. I don't agree with their politics, but they are very much Orthodox Christians. They are uncanonical, which means their canonical autonomy is not recognized because they do not commune with the Ecumenical Throne. This does not mean they lack canonicity, which is something completely different. Remember Russia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Georgia and many of the other autocephalous churches were out of communion with Constantinople at some time in their history and labelled "uncanonical". Were they schismatics? Were they not liked by God? There are many Russian saints who were proclaimed during the schism between Russia and Constantinople after the Council of Florence. Were they not saints? Were they not Orthodox? In the 90s the Moscow Patriarch broke off communion with the Constantinople Patriarch, was Pat Alexey II a schismatic? Of course not! -Nectarios 12:19, September 22, 2007 (PDT)
Friends, forgive me! I've edited some of the comments to try to take out the personal elements. The issue of the Old Calendarists can be difficult - there are real and remaining tensions. We should recognize the histories involved, while not making light of the profound significance of schism. — FrJohn (talk) 14:34, September 22, 2007 (PDT)

Iveron Icon

Something should be written for our Holy Icon here in Hawaii. I will ask permission from the Icon's Guardian to include something. People should know about this.

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