Talk:Old Believers

From OrthodoxWiki
(Difference between revisions)
Jump to: navigation, search
m (Sign your posts!)
 
(15 intermediate revisions by 7 users not shown)
Line 9: Line 9:
  
 
Metropolitan Macarius, and others point toward the state, and not the patriarch, as the main cause.
 
Metropolitan Macarius, and others point toward the state, and not the patriarch, as the main cause.
 +
:Good suggestion.  Perhaps you'd be able to incorporate this reference into our article? &mdash; edited by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="green">Pιs</font><font color="gold">τévο</font>]] <sup>''[[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|<font color="red">complaints</font>]]''</sup> at 12:59, December 12, 2006 (PST)
 +
 +
== Big revert ==
 +
 +
I strongly recommend reverting this article back to its state when it more resembled its source on Wikipedia.  The massive rewrite that was done is both generally unencyclopedic and severely biased.  &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</small> 17:13, December 13, 2006 (PST)
 +
 +
== Old beliver today ==
 +
 +
Old belivers have paralel hierarchy in Russia established in XIX century. I believe that sholud be aded to this article.
 +
 +
--[[User:Ddpbf|Ddpbf]] 04:44, May 17, 2007 (PDT)
 +
 +
== Major update ==
 +
 +
I've updated this article by replacing it with the (IMO, far superior) [[w:Old Believers|Wikipedia version]] (the source for the original version here), including various images and some editing on my part.  &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</small> 05:56, July 13, 2007 (PDT)
 +
 +
I've just done the same thing and I think some more small ajustments should be made. [[User:Vasstar|Vasstar]] 14:48, August 3, 2008 (UTC)
 +
 +
== Deleting the "differences between" section (Dec. 2008)==
 +
 +
I took the liberty to delete almost everything of the "differences between..." section. It repeats many differences which are already mentioned below and is therefore clearly superfluous. Besides, some mentioned differences are very much questionable; in Russia all golovshiki of priestist Old Believers, for instance, use a baton when conducting the choir, so this is not only common for new style orthodoxy. I also don't see the point in mentioning characteristics of new style orthodoxy, being them just the opposite of what Old Believers are practising. Another objection is that the formulation is often obviously not NPOV.
 +
 +
The main point, however, is that this article is about Old Believers, the Schism of 1666-67, the history and backgrounds of the Old Belief, etc. This is '''not''' an article about ritual and liturgical differences between Old- en New Ritualists. Furthermore, many described differences are extremely detailed and not always characteristic for Old Believers in general. Therefore, sections about these differences (apart from these sections quite a few differences actually '''are''' mentioned!) should in no case screen the main subject of the article.
 +
[[User:Vasstar|Vasstar]] 16:57, December 7, 2008 (UTC)
 +
 +
: Thanks for helping to smooth out and bring balance to this article.  &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]] <font face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">('''[[User:ASDamick/Wiki-philosophy|THINK!]]''')</font></small> 20:13, December 7, 2008 (UTC)
 +
 +
== Wikipedia links ==
 +
 +
Many of the Wikipedia links recently added internally to the article ought to be made internal, OrthodoxWiki links, since they are subject matter appropriate to OW.  Please keep that in mind when adding links.  &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]] <font face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">('''[[User:ASDamick/Wiki-philosophy|THINK!]]''')</font></small> 02:19, January 2, 2009 (UTC)
 +
 +
==Year links==
 +
Orthodoxwiki does NOT use links to years and thus should not be used. Links are made to dates, month followed by the day, i.e., [[August 16]].  [[User:Wsk|Wsk]] 01:00, August 17, 2009 (UTC)
 +
 +
== This article needs attention!! ==
 +
 +
Ugh.  This article is in major need of revisions.  It comes across as slanted (particularly the section on publishing), lacks references where references are possible and tends to ramble with no clear direction.
 +
 +
:Yes, I agree! I believe the article originally was an import from Wikipedia with a lot of uncoordinated changes and really needs someone knowledgeable to make coherent changes. If you are up to it, you might want to try!!  By the way, please sign your comments. You can just use four tildes (~ upper left part of the keyboard). [[User:Wsk|Wsk]] 17:59, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 +
 +
== I agree that this article appears particularly slanted ==
 +
 +
The comparisons between the pre-reform and post-reform sections is highly subjective and does not include the practices of all of either groups. I hope an editor will address this issue. i personally have a great affinity for the traditions of the old-ritualists and am glad to see that the Patriarchate of Moscow and several groups of old-ritualists have been able to re-unite but I find the post-reform section to be very worrying. <small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Mattymoo|Mattymoo]] ([[User talk:Mattymoo|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mattymoo|contribs]]) .</small>

Latest revision as of 12:52, January 3, 2011

If they're more properly known as Old Ritualists, shouldn't that be the title of the page, with Old Believers getting a redirect? --magda 21:38, 15 Apr 2005 (CDT)

Well, "Old Believers" is the most usual name in English, and it's how they're listed in printed encyclopedias. "Old Ritualists" is the more literal translation of the Russian name (I believe). --Rdr. Andrew 22:02, 15 Apr 2005 (CDT)


Did Patriarch Nikon cause the schism as this article suggests? Perhaps this should be discussed much more.

http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/nikon.htm

Metropolitan Macarius, and others point toward the state, and not the patriarch, as the main cause.

Good suggestion. Perhaps you'd be able to incorporate this reference into our article? — edited by Pιsτévο talk complaints at 12:59, December 12, 2006 (PST)

Contents

Big revert

I strongly recommend reverting this article back to its state when it more resembled its source on Wikipedia. The massive rewrite that was done is both generally unencyclopedic and severely biased. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 17:13, December 13, 2006 (PST)

Old beliver today

Old belivers have paralel hierarchy in Russia established in XIX century. I believe that sholud be aded to this article.

--Ddpbf 04:44, May 17, 2007 (PDT)

Major update

I've updated this article by replacing it with the (IMO, far superior) Wikipedia version (the source for the original version here), including various images and some editing on my part. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 05:56, July 13, 2007 (PDT)

I've just done the same thing and I think some more small ajustments should be made. Vasstar 14:48, August 3, 2008 (UTC)

Deleting the "differences between" section (Dec. 2008)

I took the liberty to delete almost everything of the "differences between..." section. It repeats many differences which are already mentioned below and is therefore clearly superfluous. Besides, some mentioned differences are very much questionable; in Russia all golovshiki of priestist Old Believers, for instance, use a baton when conducting the choir, so this is not only common for new style orthodoxy. I also don't see the point in mentioning characteristics of new style orthodoxy, being them just the opposite of what Old Believers are practising. Another objection is that the formulation is often obviously not NPOV.

The main point, however, is that this article is about Old Believers, the Schism of 1666-67, the history and backgrounds of the Old Belief, etc. This is not an article about ritual and liturgical differences between Old- en New Ritualists. Furthermore, many described differences are extremely detailed and not always characteristic for Old Believers in general. Therefore, sections about these differences (apart from these sections quite a few differences actually are mentioned!) should in no case screen the main subject of the article. Vasstar 16:57, December 7, 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for helping to smooth out and bring balance to this article. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 20:13, December 7, 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia links

Many of the Wikipedia links recently added internally to the article ought to be made internal, OrthodoxWiki links, since they are subject matter appropriate to OW. Please keep that in mind when adding links. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 02:19, January 2, 2009 (UTC)

Year links

Orthodoxwiki does NOT use links to years and thus should not be used. Links are made to dates, month followed by the day, i.e., August 16. Wsk 01:00, August 17, 2009 (UTC)

This article needs attention!!

Ugh. This article is in major need of revisions. It comes across as slanted (particularly the section on publishing), lacks references where references are possible and tends to ramble with no clear direction.

Yes, I agree! I believe the article originally was an import from Wikipedia with a lot of uncoordinated changes and really needs someone knowledgeable to make coherent changes. If you are up to it, you might want to try!! By the way, please sign your comments. You can just use four tildes (~ upper left part of the keyboard). Wsk 17:59, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

I agree that this article appears particularly slanted

The comparisons between the pre-reform and post-reform sections is highly subjective and does not include the practices of all of either groups. I hope an editor will address this issue. i personally have a great affinity for the traditions of the old-ritualists and am glad to see that the Patriarchate of Moscow and several groups of old-ritualists have been able to re-unite but I find the post-reform section to be very worrying. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mattymoo (talkcontribs) .

Personal tools
Namespaces
Variants
Actions
Navigation
interaction
Donate

Please consider supporting OrthodoxWiki. FAQs

Toolbox