Talk:Nikolai Velimirovic

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: Even though it is most likely false, it is worth mentioning because it's a common accusation.  Encyclopedic articles deal with what's notable about their subject, both good and bad.  &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>Dcn. Andrew</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Randompage|<font color="blue">random</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 19:18, May 24, 2006 (CDT)
 
: Even though it is most likely false, it is worth mentioning because it's a common accusation.  Encyclopedic articles deal with what's notable about their subject, both good and bad.  &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>Dcn. Andrew</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Randompage|<font color="blue">random</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 19:18, May 24, 2006 (CDT)
  
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@ Andreas and Deac. Andrew : I'm afraid that the evidence supporting antisemitism exists among the writting of Nikolai Velimirovitch. For instance, in the bishop's essay called "''Nacionalizam Svetog Save''" (''Saint Sava's Nationalism'') written in 1938, bishop Nikolai promote his idea of a national church as being the ideal pursued by saint Sava. He concludes his essay as follows: " ''The idea pursued by Luther to create a national church in Germany was taken over by the current German leader [Hittler]... respect must be given to the current German leader who, as a simple citizen coming from the working class and at the same time a man from the people, has been able to perceive that nationalism without faith is a cold and uncertain mechanism. And now during the 20th century, he has achieved the idea of saint Sava and as a layman, has taken over the most important duty that characterizes only a saint, a genius and a hero. As for us, this duty was fullfilled by saint Sava''[...]"
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His admiration for Hittler tells us something rather worying about his alleged antisemitism. Beyond the question of antisemitsm, there is the more general question about the nature of his nationalism (as it transpires from another of his writtings entitled "''srpski narod kao teodul''"). How compatible is his religious nationalism with the idea of a universal church one would wonder ?
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By the way, thank you Deacon Andrew for your honesty by making mention of the antisemitsm accusations -eventhought I personally believe that religious nationalism is the true problem. Therefore, please do not remove this quote as '''there is''' scriptural evidence for it.
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''questionmark'' (7th of June 2010)
 
== Whats with the personal opinions? ==
 
== Whats with the personal opinions? ==
  

Revision as of 05:25, June 7, 2010

Having a preference in all things for English names for saints --- just as we do with Johns, Pauls, Basils, and most other saints' names --- I've noted the usage of Nicholas, notably used by HB Met. Herman at the 2005 Pilgrimage at St. Tikhon Monastery, PA. --Basil 18:35, March 28, 2006 (CST)


What does "now" in Crestwood, NY (written immediately afterward St. Vladimir's Theological Seminary) mean? Was the seminary located somewhere else previously? User:Gabriela 12:56, May 3, 2006 (CST)

Yep. It was initially located in NYC and housed in Columbia University. It wasn't in Crestwood until 1962. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 15:59, May 3, 2006 (CDT)
Huh, you learn something new everyday. Thanks. Gabriela 8:26, 13 May, 2006 (CST)


- I agree with changing Nikolai to Nicholas, or at least putting one in brackets.

Anyway, what is with the mention of him being accused of supporting the holocaust? That is an awful accusation to mention. Is there any foundation to this claim? Or can the comment be removed? Andreas

Even though it is most likely false, it is worth mentioning because it's a common accusation. Encyclopedic articles deal with what's notable about their subject, both good and bad. —Dcn. Andrew talk random contribs 19:18, May 24, 2006 (CDT)

@ Andreas and Deac. Andrew : I'm afraid that the evidence supporting antisemitism exists among the writting of Nikolai Velimirovitch. For instance, in the bishop's essay called "Nacionalizam Svetog Save" (Saint Sava's Nationalism) written in 1938, bishop Nikolai promote his idea of a national church as being the ideal pursued by saint Sava. He concludes his essay as follows: " The idea pursued by Luther to create a national church in Germany was taken over by the current German leader [Hittler]... respect must be given to the current German leader who, as a simple citizen coming from the working class and at the same time a man from the people, has been able to perceive that nationalism without faith is a cold and uncertain mechanism. And now during the 20th century, he has achieved the idea of saint Sava and as a layman, has taken over the most important duty that characterizes only a saint, a genius and a hero. As for us, this duty was fullfilled by saint Sava[...]" His admiration for Hittler tells us something rather worying about his alleged antisemitism. Beyond the question of antisemitsm, there is the more general question about the nature of his nationalism (as it transpires from another of his writtings entitled "srpski narod kao teodul"). How compatible is his religious nationalism with the idea of a universal church one would wonder ?

By the way, thank you Deacon Andrew for your honesty by making mention of the antisemitsm accusations -eventhought I personally believe that religious nationalism is the true problem. Therefore, please do not remove this quote as there is scriptural evidence for it.

questionmark (7th of June 2010)

Whats with the personal opinions?

Took out "which is more an allegation of historical fact rather than the racism which is the heart of anti-semitism." To me racism is racism regardless of who it's directed at but on top of that what in the world does that statement have to do with the life of the Nikolai Velimirovic?

I think it'd make a lot more sense to simply note that he was accused of anti-semitism, and that the facts do not bear this out without inserting subjective statements into the mix. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kharaku (talkcontribs) .

Don't forget to sign your posts with a "~~~~".
As to your edit, I agree, but mainly because it removes an unnecessary line. Racism is at the heart of anti-semitism - as the words themselves will bear out (i.e. against a particular race); and it is to do with St Nikolai because he was accused of anti-semitism (and, therefore, of racism). Not much more than that.
On another topic - I'm not sure on the reasoning behind this article being where it is, without denoting his last see (e.g. 'Nikolai (Velimirovic) of Zica') - wiser minds than I respond? — by Pιsτévο talk complaints at 06:33, May 22, 2008 (UTC)
Im not a wiser mind but the name does not conform with the Style Manual which says it should be "Nikolai (Velimorovic) of Zica". I have noticed Father Andrew (ASDamick) updates these articles to the Style Manual form when he notices them (if that helps). Vasiliki 07:14, May 22, 2008 (UTC)
I think the reasoning would be that he is known better as "Nikolai Velimirovic" than "Nikolai of Zica," and would be an exception. —magda (talk) 15:32, May 22, 2008 (UTC)
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