Talk:Church of Ukraine

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("Kiev" vs. "Kyiv": new section)
 
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1415 - Moscow Church formally separated from Kyivan Metropolitanate. By 1448, Moscow metropolitans bear the title “Metropolitan of Moscow.
 
1415 - Moscow Church formally separated from Kyivan Metropolitanate. By 1448, Moscow metropolitans bear the title “Metropolitan of Moscow.
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== Autonomy==
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*Though the designation may be correct in a general political sense, it is incorrect in a strict legal ecclesiastical sense. The Moscow patriarchate has been insisting that the Church of Ukraine has a status of a "self-governing Church with the powers of wide autonomy" and explicitly rejected calling it an [[Autonomy|autonomous Church]].[[User:Muscovite99|Max]] 18:30, December 25, 2008 (UTC)
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:For reference see the ROC Statutes Chapter VIII (VIII. Самоуправляемые Церкви ) [http://www.mospat.ru/index.php?mid=169].[[User:Muscovite99|Max]] 18:33, December 25, 2008 (UTC)
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''Autonomy'' can mean various things and generally always has.  This church is generally known as "autonomous," as some quick Googling can reveal.
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In terms of whatever a "strict legal ecclesiastical sense" is supposed to mean, why not simply describe the terms of the church's autonomy in the article?
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(I must admit, though, that I find it curious how a body can endorse ''self-governed'' but not ''autonomous'', when they literally mean the same thing!)  &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]] <font face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">('''[[User:ASDamick/Wiki-philosophy|THINK!]]''')</font></small> 20:23, December 26, 2008 (UTC)
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== "Kiev" vs. "Kyiv" ==
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Yes, I am aware that ''Kyiv'' is closer to the Ukrainian spelling, while ''Kiev'' is closer to the Russian.  Nevertheless, ''Kiev'' remains the most common and standard English spelling for the capital of Ukraine.
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This is called an [[w:exonym|exonym]], and it is exceedingly normal for foreign languages to have different words for places and things than the native language does.  (Why, for instance, do we call that country in Europe ''Germany'' (from Latin!) and not ''Deutschland'' (from German!)?  It's an exonym!)  &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]] <font face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">('''[[User:ASDamick/Wiki-philosophy|THINK!]]''')</font></small> 21:49, January 26, 2009 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 14:49, January 26, 2009

Found this on the "Community" page, where should we put it?

AUTONOMOUS UKRAINIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH IN AMERICA

A BRIEF HISTORY

Apostolic Age: Andrew the Apostle, negotiating the Dnipro River, prophesied that a great city would be built upon the site of what is now known as Kyiv and that God would cause many Churches to rise upon the hills of the city.

c. 860 - Cyrillic alphabet formulated by Greek brothers, Saints Cyril and Methodius.

955 - Saints Ol’ha & Volodymyr’s grandmother, accepted Orthodox baptism from the Greeks, perhaps in Constantinople.

988 - Baptism of the inhabitants of Rus’-Ukraine in the Dnipro River by Orthodox clergy from Constantinople.

988-1240 - Many churches are built and monasteries established, including: the Church of the Tithes, Monastery of the Dormition, Cathedral of St. Sophia, St. Michael’s Monastery.

1015 - First saints of Ukrainian Church, Ss. Boris & Hlib, are martyred.

1051 - First native Ukrainian, Metropolitan Ilarion, is enthroned as Metropolitan of Kyiv and All Rus’ - head of the Ukrainian Church.

1147 - Metropolitan Klym is enthroned as Metropolitan of Kyiv; Ukraine’s canonical dependence upon Constantinople diminishes. Moscow is established and settled by Prince Yuri Dolgoruky.

1240 - Mongols destroy Kyiv. For reasons of safety, the Metropolitans of Kyiv eventually reside in Moscow [after 1325].

1415 - Moscow Church formally separated from Kyivan Metropolitanate. By 1448, Moscow metropolitans bear the title “Metropolitan of Moscow.

Autonomy

  • Though the designation may be correct in a general political sense, it is incorrect in a strict legal ecclesiastical sense. The Moscow patriarchate has been insisting that the Church of Ukraine has a status of a "self-governing Church with the powers of wide autonomy" and explicitly rejected calling it an autonomous Church.Max 18:30, December 25, 2008 (UTC)
For reference see the ROC Statutes Chapter VIII (VIII. Самоуправляемые Церкви ) [1].Max 18:33, December 25, 2008 (UTC)


Autonomy can mean various things and generally always has. This church is generally known as "autonomous," as some quick Googling can reveal.

In terms of whatever a "strict legal ecclesiastical sense" is supposed to mean, why not simply describe the terms of the church's autonomy in the article?

(I must admit, though, that I find it curious how a body can endorse self-governed but not autonomous, when they literally mean the same thing!) —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 20:23, December 26, 2008 (UTC)

"Kiev" vs. "Kyiv"

Yes, I am aware that Kyiv is closer to the Ukrainian spelling, while Kiev is closer to the Russian. Nevertheless, Kiev remains the most common and standard English spelling for the capital of Ukraine.

This is called an exonym, and it is exceedingly normal for foreign languages to have different words for places and things than the native language does. (Why, for instance, do we call that country in Europe Germany (from Latin!) and not Deutschland (from German!)? It's an exonym!) —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 21:49, January 26, 2009 (UTC)

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