Talk:Anti-Orthodox

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I think it's worth leaving in the fact that Clendenin knows what he's talking about more than most of the other writers linked here. -FrJohn
 
I think it's worth leaving in the fact that Clendenin knows what he's talking about more than most of the other writers linked here. -FrJohn
  
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== Non-Chalcedonian Polemics ==
 
== Non-Chalcedonian Polemics ==
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I am concerned seeing the Coptic Orthodox Church listed as Anti-Orthodox under this category.
  
I gather these have been resolved by official Eastern Orthodox Chuch hierarchy over a decade ago. I am offended seeing the Coptic Orthodox Church listed as Anti-Orthodox under this category. For your information, we are a Church of martyrs up to this day:
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:I am removing this section/sub-heading, as there are no links or other information. Any links or other information which may come up might better be structured under [[Oriental Orthodox]], or another page relating to the differences between Chalcedonian and Non-Chalcedonian congregations (for instance, [[Christology]] or [[Council of Chalcedon]]).  Arbible, it might be a good idea to think of this inclusion as an honest mistake, i.e., give the benefit of a doubt, rather than a signal of "fighting." [[User:Magda|{{User:Magda/sig}}]] 11:40, 21 Oct 2005 (EDT)
http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=85&art_id=qw1129782066324B221 (Coptic nun stabbed in chest)
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http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Religion&loid=8.0.220123440&par=0 (Muslim mobs (>5,000) are right now surrounding the church and the situation is out of control)
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:: Thank you v much - God Bless+++
  
http://www.copts.net/detail.asp?id=795 (Reuters - latest 21/10/05)
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:I most certainly did NOT list the Coptic religion as "anti-Orthodox". I merely provided a category where information on and links to non-Chalcedonian polemics could be added. I would appreciate it if the category was added back. --[[User:Matrona|Matrona]] 13:30, 21 Oct 2005 (EDT)
  
http://www.copts.net/detail.asp?id=796 (BREAKING NEWS: 10,000 LAY VIOLENT SIEGE TO COPTIC CHURCH - 21/10/05)
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I think we can both pray for persecuted Christians around the world '''and''' focus on Christology. There clearly is much to discuss, and no '''official''' proclamations regarding the Christological questions between the Chalcedonians and Non-Chalcedonians have yet been promulgated.  So it's not a dead question by any means.
  
I think we should now concentrate on praying for the persecuted Church around the world rather than on our Christological "differences"!
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In any event, while I do think that putting Non-Chalcedonian polemics against Chalcedonians into this article is probably not the best thing to do (if only because it's a large enough issue to warrant separate treatment), it is worthy of mention that [[OrthodoxWiki:Style Manual#Neutrality and the OrthodoxWiki Bias|according to official policy]], ''Orthodox'' is defined on OrthodoxWiki as a term biased in favor of Mainstream Chalcedonian Orthodoxy.  While Non-Chalcedonian material is welcome here, it is as "guests" that such material is welcome and not as "standard."  &mdash;&mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>Dcn. Andrew</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Randompage|<font color="blue">random</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 18:25, 21 Oct 2005 (EDT)
  
:I am removing this section/sub-heading, as there are no links or other information. Any links or other information which may come up might better be structured under [[Oriental Orthodox]], or another page relating to the differences between Chalcedonian and Non-Chalcedonian congregations (for instance, [[Christology]] or [[Council of Chalcedon]]).  Arbible, it might be a good idea to think of this inclusion as an honest mistake, i.e., give the benefit of a doubt, rather than a signal of "fighting." [[User:Magda|{{User:Magda/sig}}]] 11:40, 21 Oct 2005 (EDT)
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::Thank you. I respect your policy. God Bless+
  
:: Thank you v much - God Bless+++
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:::Thanks for understanding.  --[[User:Matrona|Matrona]] 21:09, 21 Oct 2005 (EDT)
  
:I most certainly did NOT list the Coptic religion as "anti-Orthodox". I merely provided a category where information on and links to non-Chalcedonian polemics could be added.  I would appreciate it if the category was added back.  --[[User:Matrona|Matrona]] 13:30, 21 Oct 2005 (EDT)
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Just a note to say that I've removed the empty headings here. I think, as regards the non-chalcedonians, that the Christological issues are dealt with adequately elsewhere. This page was envisioned (by me at least) as dealing more with newer/modern polemics. Let me add that I am very happy to have so much Coptic/Non-Chalcedonian material on OrthodoxWiki. I think our hearts are very close. While I do not want to cover over any significant issues which yet divide us (as Rdr. Andrew and others have brought up), I hope that this website could contribute in some small way to the feelings of brotherhood and unity we do have. [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]
:: One more - for prayers:
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http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Terrorism&loid=8.0.221749664&par=0
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: Let me add my Amen to what Fr. John has said here.  I very much respect and admire the Non-Chalcedonian churches and pray that a full unity may be achieved&mdash;&mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>Dcn. Andrew</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Randompage|<font color="blue">random</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 09:07, 22 Oct 2005 (EDT)
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==Roman Catholic Critiques of the Councils==
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The following from the "'''[http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/ Catholic Encyclopedia]'''" :
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:"''This is the "Psuedosynodus Photiana" '''which the Orthodox count as the [[Eighth Ecumenical Council|Eighth General Council]]'''''".
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And the following from "'''[http://www.catholic.com/ Catholic Answers]'''" :
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:"''The Eastern Orthodox communion bases its teachings on Scripture and "the seven ecumenical councils"—I Nicaea (325), I Constantinople (381), Ephesus (431), Chalcedon (451), II Constantinople (553), III Constantinople (680), and II Nicaea (787). '''Catholics recognize these as the first seven ecumenical councils, but not the only seven'''''.
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:'''''While Catholics recognize an ensuing series of ecumenical councils, leading up to Vatican II, which closed in 1965, the Eastern Orthodox say there have been no ecumenical councils since 787, and no teaching after II Nicaea is accepted as of universal authority'''''.
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:''One of the reasons '''the Eastern Orthodox do not claim to have had any ecumenical councils since II Nicaea''' is that they have been unable to agree on which councils are ecumenical. In Orthodox circles, the test for whether a council is ecumenical is whether it is "accepted by the church" as such. But that test is unworkable: Any disputants who are unhappy with a council's result can point to their own disagreement with it as evidence that the church has not accepted it as ecumenical, and it therefore has no authority''".
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Maybe "''Catholic Answers's''" full name is actually "''Catholic Answers to Catholic Encyclopedia''" ... who knows! :-)
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P.S. : Am I being "''Anti-Catholic''" by adding this here?  :-)
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[No ill or harm intended ... and sincerely hope none ofence taken].
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[[User:Luci83ro|Luci83ro]] 21:07, July 22, 2006 (CDT)
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::I've heard someone (Catholic) say that the Orthodox only have seven, and haven't had one since, because ''according to Orthodox theology'' an ecumenical council cannot be held without the Pope (of Rome) present. Amazing, eh? [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]
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::: ..., offcourse, the fact that neither one of them cute-little-Ecumenical-Synods were ever attended by any Pope didn't seem to bother that certain someone -- Jokes beside, finding something like this sort of flagrant contradictions in '''official''' RC archives, books and/or documents is really ''not'' funny ... and I don't mean it for ''our'' sake. [[User:Luci83ro|Luci83ro]] 18:13, July 27, 2006 (CDT)
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== Christian celebrities/Pentecostalists ==
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1309655344938122063&hl=de
 +
 
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-292748952186052796
  
Riots still continuing now - 8:00 PM local time (resumed after 'iftar' - Ramadan's fast break). Tens confirmed wounded including 20 police officers. Perhaps we should have an OrthodoxWiki article about Church/Christians' persecution over the ages since the Roman times of Sts. Perpetua and Felicita [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/maps/primary/perpetua.html], Nero and Diocletian's eras, etc., and up to modern times, including communist Russia and China, and Islamic Egypt (since 641 A.D.). In fact our Coptic calendar is the calendar of martyrs. Coptic years are counted from 284 A.D., the year Diocletian became Roman Emperor, whose reign was marked by tortures and mass executions of Christians, '''especially in Egypt'''. Hence, the Coptic year is identified by the abbreviation A.M. (for ''Anno Martyrum'' or "Year of the Martyrs") [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_calendar].
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4547780116538223459
  
''II Kings 6:16,17 And he answered, '''Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them'''. And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, '''the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire''' round about Elisha.''
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http://www.saveethiopians.net/

Latest revision as of 08:40, December 9, 2008


I think it's worth leaving in the fact that Clendenin knows what he's talking about more than most of the other writers linked here. -FrJohn

Agreed. I'm gonna "scholarize" the lingo a bit, then. --Rdr. Andrew
Great! FrJohn

Can anyone find a page in which to insert a link to this article? At the moment it exists in isolation... --Matrona 11:19, 14 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Non-Chalcedonian Polemics

I am concerned seeing the Coptic Orthodox Church listed as Anti-Orthodox under this category.

I am removing this section/sub-heading, as there are no links or other information. Any links or other information which may come up might better be structured under Oriental Orthodox, or another page relating to the differences between Chalcedonian and Non-Chalcedonian congregations (for instance, Christology or Council of Chalcedon). Arbible, it might be a good idea to think of this inclusion as an honest mistake, i.e., give the benefit of a doubt, rather than a signal of "fighting." [[User:Magda|—magda (talk)]] 11:40, 21 Oct 2005 (EDT)
Thank you v much - God Bless+++
I most certainly did NOT list the Coptic religion as "anti-Orthodox". I merely provided a category where information on and links to non-Chalcedonian polemics could be added. I would appreciate it if the category was added back. --Matrona 13:30, 21 Oct 2005 (EDT)

I think we can both pray for persecuted Christians around the world and focus on Christology. There clearly is much to discuss, and no official proclamations regarding the Christological questions between the Chalcedonians and Non-Chalcedonians have yet been promulgated. So it's not a dead question by any means.

In any event, while I do think that putting Non-Chalcedonian polemics against Chalcedonians into this article is probably not the best thing to do (if only because it's a large enough issue to warrant separate treatment), it is worthy of mention that according to official policy, Orthodox is defined on OrthodoxWiki as a term biased in favor of Mainstream Chalcedonian Orthodoxy. While Non-Chalcedonian material is welcome here, it is as "guests" that such material is welcome and not as "standard." ——Dcn. Andrew talk random contribs 18:25, 21 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Thank you. I respect your policy. God Bless+
Thanks for understanding. --Matrona 21:09, 21 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Just a note to say that I've removed the empty headings here. I think, as regards the non-chalcedonians, that the Christological issues are dealt with adequately elsewhere. This page was envisioned (by me at least) as dealing more with newer/modern polemics. Let me add that I am very happy to have so much Coptic/Non-Chalcedonian material on OrthodoxWiki. I think our hearts are very close. While I do not want to cover over any significant issues which yet divide us (as Rdr. Andrew and others have brought up), I hope that this website could contribute in some small way to the feelings of brotherhood and unity we do have. Fr. John

Let me add my Amen to what Fr. John has said here. I very much respect and admire the Non-Chalcedonian churches and pray that a full unity may be achieved. ——Dcn. Andrew talk random contribs 09:07, 22 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Roman Catholic Critiques of the Councils

The following from the "Catholic Encyclopedia" :

"This is the "Psuedosynodus Photiana" which the Orthodox count as the Eighth General Council".

And the following from "Catholic Answers" :

"The Eastern Orthodox communion bases its teachings on Scripture and "the seven ecumenical councils"—I Nicaea (325), I Constantinople (381), Ephesus (431), Chalcedon (451), II Constantinople (553), III Constantinople (680), and II Nicaea (787). Catholics recognize these as the first seven ecumenical councils, but not the only seven.
While Catholics recognize an ensuing series of ecumenical councils, leading up to Vatican II, which closed in 1965, the Eastern Orthodox say there have been no ecumenical councils since 787, and no teaching after II Nicaea is accepted as of universal authority.
One of the reasons the Eastern Orthodox do not claim to have had any ecumenical councils since II Nicaea is that they have been unable to agree on which councils are ecumenical. In Orthodox circles, the test for whether a council is ecumenical is whether it is "accepted by the church" as such. But that test is unworkable: Any disputants who are unhappy with a council's result can point to their own disagreement with it as evidence that the church has not accepted it as ecumenical, and it therefore has no authority".

Maybe "Catholic Answers's" full name is actually "Catholic Answers to Catholic Encyclopedia" ... who knows!  :-)

P.S. : Am I being "Anti-Catholic" by adding this here?  :-)

[No ill or harm intended ... and sincerely hope none ofence taken]. Luci83ro 21:07, July 22, 2006 (CDT)

I've heard someone (Catholic) say that the Orthodox only have seven, and haven't had one since, because according to Orthodox theology an ecumenical council cannot be held without the Pope (of Rome) present. Amazing, eh? Fr. John
..., offcourse, the fact that neither one of them cute-little-Ecumenical-Synods were ever attended by any Pope didn't seem to bother that certain someone -- Jokes beside, finding something like this sort of flagrant contradictions in official RC archives, books and/or documents is really not funny ... and I don't mean it for our sake. Luci83ro 18:13, July 27, 2006 (CDT)

Christian celebrities/Pentecostalists

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1309655344938122063&hl=de

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-292748952186052796

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4547780116538223459

http://www.saveethiopians.net/

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