Difference between revisions of "OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza"

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In a monastery, a '''[[refectory|trapeza]]''' (or ''refectory''), is the dining hall where monks and pilgrims gather for food and conversation (although monks don't usually talk during meals). The OrthodoxWiki trapeza serves as the main discussion point for our website. Please feel free to join in—ask anything, suggest an idea, make a comment. We're glad to have you here.  For other, more specifically designated discussion pages, check out the [[OrthodoxWiki:Community Portal|Community Portal]].  [[Category:OrthodoxWiki]]  [[bg:Project:Трапеза]] [[el:OrthodoxWiki:Τράπεζα]] [[fr:OrthodoxWiki:La Cafétéria]] [[mk:Православна-енциклопедија:Трпеза]] [[ro:OrthodoxWiki:Cafenea]]
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In a monastery, a '''[[refectory|trapeza]]''' (or ''refectory''), is the dining hall where monks and pilgrims gather for food and conversation (although monks don't usually talk during meals). The OrthodoxWiki trapeza serves as the main discussion point for our website. Please feel free to join in—ask anything, suggest an idea, make a comment. We're glad to have you here.  For other, more specifically designated discussion pages, check out the [[OrthodoxWiki:Community Portal|Community Portal]].   
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'''If you have questions or comments about specific articles''', please direct them to the Talk pages of those articles so that they will be seen by editors working on them.
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[[Category:OrthodoxWiki]]  [[bg:Project:Трапеза]] [[el:OrthodoxWiki:Τράπεζα]] [[fr:OrthodoxWiki:La Cafétéria]] [[mk:Православна-енциклопедија:Трпеза]] [[ro:OrthodoxWiki:Cafenea]]
  
 
* [[OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza/Archive 1|Archive 1]], Feb 2005 – Dec 2005 (formerly the [http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=OrthodoxWiki:Anything_Goes&oldid=22917 Anything Goes] page)
 
* [[OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza/Archive 1|Archive 1]], Feb 2005 – Dec 2005 (formerly the [http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=OrthodoxWiki:Anything_Goes&oldid=22917 Anything Goes] page)
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* [[OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza/Archive 3|Archive 3]], Oct 2005 – Aug 2006 (moved from [http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&oldid=37962 Talk:Main Page])
 
* [[OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza/Archive 3|Archive 3]], Oct 2005 – Aug 2006 (moved from [http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&oldid=37962 Talk:Main Page])
 
* [[OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza/Archive 4|Archive 4]], Aug 2006 – Dec 2006 (2006 Trapeza archive)
 
* [[OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza/Archive 4|Archive 4]], Aug 2006 – Dec 2006 (2006 Trapeza archive)
* [[OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza/Archive 5|Archive 5]], through November 2008
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* [[OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza/Archive 5|Archive 5]], Dec 2006 – November 2008
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* [[OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza/Archive 6|Archive 6]], Nov 2008 – March 2011
  
 
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== Closing down OrthodoxSource and SR ==
+
== Holy Trinity Metafor ==
Friends, I apologize for being absent for awhile. Please let me know if you have any outstanding wiki issues you need to resolve!<br>
+
 
As of today, I am shutting down OrthodoxSource. Apologies to IXThis888, who has put in a good deal of work. However, there was not enough of a community of contibutors and moderators there, and I think it would be better for us all at this point to keep the focus on this wiki. Also, I will likely be shutting down SR soon. There has been no activity there for a long time, and I'm afraid that the required documents (about copyrights and policies) were never translated. — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk]) 12:45, November 25, 2008 (UTC)
+
Hello,
 +
 
 +
Reading about the material universe, noticed that there are 3 infinities (or mysteries) that define our world:
 +
 
 +
1. --- The immensity of space-time, the boundless universe than nobody can say for sure how big it is, where it ends. Sure there are some theories that are accepted by most scientists, but also big anomalies if you apply the theory, that need to be corrected with inventions such as "dark matter" or "string theory" to fill in for obvious gaps.
 +
 
 +
2. --- The "small infinity" or mystery of the subatomic universe. We split the atoms in so many sub-particles, and the latest belief is that in fact all the matter is a concentration of energy. But where does matter end and pure energy begins?
 +
 
 +
I may be overcomplicating here, but it's just so poetic to notice how the science laws of the big universe and the small universe are in disagreement with each-other when it comes to apply the macrocosmos laws to microcosmos or the other way around, as if God intended things to be mysterious and impenetrable for the human mind.
 +
 
 +
3. --- The infinite complexity of life and intelligence. The connections in our brain are said to be more than all the stars in the universe. But how can this complexity come to be in only 4 billon years since our Earth is said to exist. This level of organisation of matter, first level: life, second level: intelligent life are both just unconceivable by science.
 +
 
 +
I want to ask you: could these 3 "infinities" be a reflection of the Holy Trinity in the material world? Or what is the theological view about those mysteries?
 +
 
 +
Thank you
 +
Mihai
 +
 
 +
 
 +
== New category ==
 +
I was thinking of adding a category to be called '''"Propitiatory Offerings"''' where all of the things that are offered to God can be grouped together, inluding: [[Artoklasia]], [[Kollyva]], [[Proskomedia]], [[Molieben]], [[Incense]], [[Myrrh]], [[Votive Offerings]], and things of this nature. Propitiatory Offerings in the Old Testament consisted mainly of sacrifices; in the Orthodox Church we have this new array of elements. Any ideas or comments? Is it accurate to describe it this way? Thanks and cheers. [[User:Angellight 888|Angellight 888]] 20:34, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
: Propitiation is a problematic concept for Orthodoxy and one I wouldn't be willing to endorse (e.g., I would never say, "We offer up incense as a propitiation to God").  That said, though, I've never heard of these things really being grouped together in traditional Orthodox writings.  &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]] <font face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">('''[[User:ASDamick/Wiki-philosophy|THINK!]]''')</font></small> 14:05, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
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 +
:: Thanks for the clarification Father, cheers, [[User:Angellight 888|Angellight 888]] 14:09, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
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 +
== Calendar Days ==
 +
Greetings. I had a look over at Wikipedia at their Orthodox "Calendar day" pages, and I liked how the pages were set up; instead of a block paragraph, with all the daily Saints blocked together as we have them here, they list them in a neatly ordered list (with bullets). This list could even be arranged chronologically for that particular day (i.e. with the oldest-in-time Saints listed first, the most recent saint for that day listed last).
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 +
Here is an example from Wikipedia for [[w:June 4 (Eastern Orthodox liturgics)|JUNE 4th]]. I would like to go into all of our Calendar Day pages for the entire year (all 365 days), and make the change form paragraph to list form, for ease of reading and better visual (and chronological) access. Would this be okay / sound good / any objections? (I don't mind doing the work).  Cheers, [[User:Angellight 888|Angellight 888]] 11:52, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Twitter feed showing drug spam ==
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 +
I saw the following in my twitter feed:
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owiki OrthodoxWiki
 +
New article: Order benicar 20mg, 10mg, 40mg cheap - cheap generic benicar 10mg - order benicar 10mg india bit.ly/pSig8Z
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22 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
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owiki OrthodoxWiki
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New article: Buy effexor 75mg, 150mg, 37.5mg cheap - effexor xr com - where to purchase effexor 150mg bit.ly/pSImpy
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22 minutes ago
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owiki OrthodoxWiki
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New article: Order erythromycin 500mg, 250mg cheap - erythromycin for toothaches - erythromycin allergy bit.ly/mOYoUs
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22 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
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FYI.
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[[User:JonathansCornerCom|JonathansCornerCom]] 12:11, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
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: It's been fixed.  &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]] <font face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">('''[[User:ASDamick/Wiki-philosophy|THINK!]]''')</font></small> 18:20, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
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Thanks! Great!
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[[User:JonathansCornerCom|JonathansCornerCom]] 22:41, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
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== List of Enlighterners/Illuminators/Equals-to-the-Apostles ==
 +
 
 +
I realize that the purpose of the wiki structure is to allow anyone to edit. I hope OW will forgive my impertinence in merely suggesting (as opposed to creating myself) that it would be useful to have a list (or lists) corresponding to the different saint titles at [[ illuminator ]].
 +
 
 +
I've thought of this because an LDS poster on a message board I frequent challenged non-LDS to name five of our own missionaries "whose exploits rival that of the LDS missionary work."
 +
: I think the OW category 'Missionaries' covers this with an extensive list. An article over a list of missionaries would be rather long! [[User:Wsk|Wsk]] 01:22, September 18, 2011 (UTC)
 +
: Thanks for the response WSK! I'm not seeing the category for 'Missionaries'...what am I missing? [[User:Jkotinek|Jkotinek]] 19:57, September 19, 2011 (UTC)
 +
: NM. Found it. = ) [[User:Jkotinek|Jkotinek]] 20:00, September 19, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Confesion ==
 +
 
 +
Where may I find info abour Confession?  I did a search for that subject & coldn't fnd it.  After a long absence from Church, I returned in February 2012.  I've had four o five cnfessions snce then.  Every tme I try to confess, I'm often fogettng sins. Dad told me it's okay to say "I can't recall others, but I read that it's not ok
 +
May 12, 2012
 +
Brooklyn, NY
 +
Thank you Irene Nikolsky
 +
 
 +
:: I think it's good to talk with a priest, but also you might find some helpful resources at http://stspress.com/ or http://svspress.com - — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk]) 16:34, May 12, 2012 (HST)
 +
 
 +
== Basic Information ==
 +
 
 +
Is there a website that helps people and/or teenagers with basic Q&As about our religion?  I have teen son, who was baptized Orthodox.  Because my church is in Russian he doesn't want to go.  I thought if  I could find basic info for him, then he'd believe me that there are English speaking Eastern Orthodox members.
 +
Thank you,
 +
Irene Nikolsky
 +
Broolyn, NY
 +
 
 +
:: Greetings Irene. Of course, there are A LOT of English-speaking (and non-Russian) Orthodox people -- For Q+A, you might try http://orthodoxanswers.org/ -- — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])
 +
 
 +
== Orthodox wiki stats ==
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 +
Is there a way to look at statistics for various pages by day, week, month, and year? --[[User:Kalvesmaki|Kalvesmaki]] 16:03, May 17, 2012 (HST)
 +
 
 +
==Diocese evolution in North America==
 +
One aspect that I have had in preparing my contributions to Orthodoxwiki concerns an accurate presentation of the ecclesiastical structure of the Orthodox in North America. While sources concerning the earliest century, notably in the OCA 1975 publication, give a fairly clear picture of the founding of dioceses and vicariates, the last century is blurred.
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 +
Various sources seem to present a good picture of the history of the structure of the Greek and Antiochian diocese, but the picture within the Russian based organizations gets blurred as the twentieth century progressed. The history of the Russian mission to North America seems clear to the first decade of the twentieth century when the Vicariates of Alaska and Brooklyn were formed. As hierarchs were installed with sees named Canada, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Winnipeg, Montreal, San Francisco, Detroit, Boston, and others through the time of the Metropolia, apparently as Vicariates of the North American Diocese that commonly was called the Metropolia. The formation of any of these Vicariates as Dioceses came apparently only after the granting of autocephaly to the the "Metropolia" and, thus, bishops of these sees prior to 1970 were apparently "titular/vicar/assistant bishops, not diocesan bishops. A question in my mind is, were the bishops of the "ethnic dioceses" vicars or ruling bishops?
 +
 
 +
The picture for bishops and dioceses of ROCOR in North America is less clear as to when the "titular" sees ceased being "titular" and may have become real dioceses.
 +
 
 +
Recent updates to articles about North American dioceses makes necessary a clear understanding of the evolution of the North American ecclesiastical structure so that Orthodoxwiki articles don't imply existence of dioceses before they came into existence. 
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The above is my assumption of the history of the development of the dioceses in North America. Sources/references and text within articles that clarifies the evolution of the North American structure are needed to assure accuracy in the articles. [[User:Wsk|Wsk]] 05:07, September 12, 2012 (HST)
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 +
== GOARCH link URLs format ==
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 +
One thing I'm constantly running into (and correcting as I go along) is the format of URLs leading to GOARCH's Online Chapel Saints pages being out of date (and leading to the "that page doesn't exist" message). They have changed formats at least once (maybe twice based on what I've seen here), and unfortunately, they haven't set any redirects, whether programmatically or via HTTP 301. (I've thought about contacting them about it, but haven't gotten up the nerve to do so)
 +
 
 +
Example:
 +
* (old, broken way): http://goarch.org/en/chapel/saints/1180
 +
* (current way): http://goarch.org/chapel/saints_view?contentid=1180
 +
 
 +
I've pondered a bit about what should be done here. Obviously, one thing -- which I'm already doing -- is making the necessary correction every time I see one on a page. However, that's just a few out of the potentially ''hundreds'' of outdated links there could be. Something else could be developing a bot that would search all pages and update the links automatically. I don't know ''how'' to do that, but I know ''what'' they'd need to do. Anyways, I just wanted to bring it to everyone's (in particular the sysops') attention, as this is (warning: assumptions lie ahead) a widespread problem, and a potential hindrance from people getting the proper information (i.e. not knowing how to get to the right URL, or just giving up and saying "oh well, another bad link"). It may seem like a small thing, but it definitely means a lot to me, as I would hate for people to not be able to easily get to the information they need.
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 +
If I can help, other than my edit-one-when-I-see-it method, just let me know. [[User:Paharwell|Phil Harwell (paharwell)]] 08:36, December 11, 2012 (HST)
 +
 
 +
== Canonicity of Revelation ==
 +
 
 +
27 January 2013
 +
 
 +
I am in research on a book dealing with the issues surrounding the acceptance of the book of Revelation into the New Testament. (Definitely not an exegetical commentary – there are many hundreds of them already!) I would appreciate some advice on a specific area of research that is giving me difficulty: the history of Revelation’s acceptance in the Eastern church in the 2nd through 5th centuries, and perhaps later.
 +
In publications I have found so far, there is sometimes a distinction drawn between the acceptance of Revelation in early Western vs Eastern Christianity: acceptance was much more rapid and widespread in the West. I have yet to find, however, much insight into why acceptance was slower in the East. What was the nature of the misgivings that the fathers of the Eastern church evidently had? Who, by name, expressed those misgivings? When, how, and under what circumstances? What finally prompted the Eastern Christian churches to accept Revelation? Did they do so gladly or grudgingly? How do Orthodox Christians tend to see Revelation today? Is it often preached? Were there other issues or background that I seem not to have contemplated? Can you recommend books or articles that address these matters?
 +
 
 +
To hit only some highlights, these are factors that perturbed the acceptance of Revelation in the Western church; perhaps they were voiced in the Eastern church as well:
 +
 
 +
• Questions of apostolicity.
 +
 
 +
o     Revelation was probably written about 95 A.D. The disciple John (son of Zebedee) would have been quite old at this time, beyond normal life expectancy. There is reason to believe he died about 70 A.D.
 +
 
 +
o     The Greek language of Revelation is quite different from the Greek of the Fourth Gospel, strongly indicating they could not have been written by the same person.
 +
 
 +
o     John bar Zebedee was not known to have had an oversight responsibility of the seven churches to whom Revelation was addressed.
 +
 
 +
• Questions of orthodoxy.
 +
 
 +
o     Revelation shares characteristics with many Gnostic writings, especially in its good-evil dualism and its frequent focus on secret knowledge.
 +
 
 +
o     Revelation speaks of the Millennium, the thousand-year period after Christ’s return when all believers live happily with Him on earth before the final confrontation with Satan. This concept is absent from the Gospels and Epistles, and it is one of the reasons that Cerinthus (active in Asia Minor at the time Revelation was written there) was declared a heretic.
 +
 
 +
o     It is not difficult to read in Revelation a theology of salvation by works rather than of salvation by grace through faith in Christ.
 +
 
 +
Any insights or recommendations on the Orthodox perspective on the canonicity of Revelation would be most welcome. I expect to be in research for the rest of 2013, with writing in early 2014.
 +
 
 +
Thanks very much
 +
 
 +
David in
 +
Lexington, VA
 +
[[User:Mullerjrd|Mullerjrd]] 13:43, January 27, 2013 (HST)
 +
 
 +
:: Hi David, Unfortunately I don't have any resources in mind (you might check more general Orthodox sources on Scripture). Basically, we do accept Revelation as a canonical book, but we do not read it liturgically and so it is relatively unemphasized (but still significant!). We do not accept "millennialism" and are basically "amillennial". I wonder if anyone else knows of specific resources that might be helpful? — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk]) 21:43, January 31, 2013 (HST)
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 +
== Bible Text ==
 +
 
 +
I was thinking what if we had the LXX bible on OrthodoxWiki, so you could read the bible used by the Orthodox on this site. -[[User:ShenLazar|ShenLazar]] 02:18, August 21, 2013 (HST)
 +
: Hi ShenLazar, I don't think this belongs on OrthodoxWiki, although it would be a great project for another site. Various versions of the LXX (Greek, English translations, etc.) are available elsewhere. There are links at [[Septuagint]]. Difficulties of putting the text here include the question of which translation to use, as well as copyright restrictions on some of the better ones. A more extensive article with links and a good evaluation of the differences between translations could be helpful though. — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk]) 23:20, August 24, 2013 (HST)
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 +
== Is Revelations 21:27 a good proof of Purgatory? ==
 +
 
 +
According to Revelations 21:27, "But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or cause an abomination or lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life"
 +
 
 +
Q: This verse seems to be supporting the idea of Purgatory that we must be "purified" or "cleansed" before we enter the Kingdom of God. What's the Orthodox belief/perspective of this verse?
 +
 
 +
== Upcoming council ==
 +
'''Ecumenical''' [http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/09/uk-religion-orthodoxy-council-idUSBREA280T620140309 This] upcoming council has been preemptively and prematurely called ecumenical by the press. I'm interested in seeing if this wiki has info on it. I figured that an article here would probably be the best Orthodox perspective. -[[User:Koavf|Justin (koavf)]]·[[User talk:Koavf|T]]·[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]·[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]] 23:47, March 10, 2014 (PDT)
 +
 
 +
::No info here that I know of -- I don't think we are great at breaking news. I would just say, however, that there are two senses of ecumenical at play here. I believe the council may be called "ecumenical" in a soft sense, i.e. universal. But this does not automatically give it an authority equivalent to the "Ecumenical Councils" - — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])
 +
 
 +
== OrthodoxWiki in Serbian ==
 +
 
 +
First - hello to everyone, as I am quite new here.
 +
 
 +
Then...
 +
 
 +
I saw that there is a designated space for this Wiki in Serbian language, but there are no articles at all. I would love to help here and I think that that would be the best way I could help, since Serbian is my native language. So, I was wondering can I start working on that and if I can, if there is anyone who want and can help? --[[User:Erin Navan|Erin Navan]] 00:38, April 15, 2014 (PDT)
  
== questions ==
+
== Crucifixion of Christ ==
hi, i have photos of the raifa monastary i would like to upload as well as a convent neasr yoshkar ola russia which i do not beleive yet has an article how would i create a new article for this? {{unsigned|Kharaku}}
 
:Hello, on the left hand side of your screen ... scroll down until you see the words
 
"upload file" .. then follow the steps ...its not too hard and always someone will help you categorise your work ... Good luck! [[User:Ixthis888|Vasiliki]] 01:16, November 29, 2008 (UTC)
 
  
== Adding a Photo.... ==
+
Hey guys, do we have an article on the crucifixion and death of Christ? The only thing I can find is Holy Week and the Exaltation of Christ. [[User:ShenLazar|ShenLazar]] 16:22, April 23, 2014 (PDT)
  
I have been wanting to post my photo, but do not know HTML.
+
== Infobox for saints ==
Could someone please give me a tip on how to do this?
 
  
Thanks! {{unsigned|Jacifus}}
+
Wikipedia has an infobox for saints where you can get details like birth, death, feast days, etc. very easily (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_saint). Would this be something that OrthdoxWiki could implement? I tried using this code here, but it doesn't seem to have whatever is needed under the hood to make it work. Thanks! [[User:Angelina123|Angelina123]] 14:24, June 9, 2014 (PDT)
  
: Give a thorough read to the materials linked in the welcome message on your talk page.  There's plenty there that should help.  &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]] <font face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">('''[[User:ASDamick/Wiki-philosophy|THINK!]]''')</font></small> 23:56, December 3, 2008 (UTC)
+
== St. John of Chicago ==
  
==Seminarian input==
+
I've been doing some poking around into the history of the Orthodox Church in Chicago and the parishes that St. John of Chicago founded.  I have a question regarding this.  Fr. John spent a dozen years in the US, and it looks like he consistently spelled his last name "Kochuroff".  This is how it is listed in the 1900 US census, and all the contemporaneous newspaper articles, and even his son's birth certificate.  Doing a Newspaper Archive, the first use that shows up as "Kochurov" is in 1994. I know this shift is due to the change in Russian transliteration over the years, but being as the "V" ending is not how he spelled his name I was wondering if we really ought to go back to that. <small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Katjuscha|Katjuscha]] ([[User talk:Katjuscha|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Katjuscha|contribs]]) .</small>
Over at Citizendium, there is a programme whereby faculty at various universities enjoin their students to post their work. I was wondering if it would make sense here to start publishing seminarians' papers. They come with faculty oversight and would be of sufficient quality to support reliability here. [[User:Thomas Simmons|Thomas Simmons]] 09:28, December 19, 2008 (PST)
 
  
:There is also a Wiki Site called "Patristic Wiki" that you should look at. Father John set it up recently (mid-November I think) and they are asking for people to contribute in regards to patristic related stuff .... 22:47, December 18, 2008 (UTC)
+
== Information on Bishop of Jerusalem ==
  
:: 1.  This is not really a place for papers, but for encyclopedia articles.  If seminarians wish to write Orthodox encyclopedia articles here, they are welcome to do so.
 
  
:: 2.  PatristicsWiki is not connected with OrthodoxWiki and, as far as I know, not set up by (our) Fr. John.  &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]] <font face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">('''[[User:ASDamick/Wiki-philosophy|THINK!]]''')</font></small> 01:54, December 19, 2008 (UTC)
+
Hello,
  
:::Hi, I know that PatristicWiki is not linked with OrthodoxWiki but I mentioned it since I presume that everyone's core intention is to spread Orthodoxy in the way they know how ... who you are affiliated with wrt posting information publically is irrelevant as long as the end users are connected to God and the Truth. I had the impression (our) Father John was involved with it ... since, he monitors the emails for the Ancient Faith podcast that Dcn Matthew has been delivering - and he is from Monachos.net So doh! [[User:Ixthis888|Vasiliki]] 04:03, December 19, 2008 (UTC)
+
I am interested in finding information on John VIII (1106-1156) Bishop of Jerusalem. I wanted to know if at that time he was actually in Jerusalem or exiled in Constantinople because of the Crusaders? I have read that there was a strong relationship with the Lavra of San Savvas and the Crusaders at that time. Was wondering if he may have actually been there instead of Jerusalem.
  
== ROK's Basic Teaching on Human Dignity, Freedom and Rights ==
+
Thank you,
I learnt recently the Russian Church adopted a [http://www.mospat.ru/index.php?mid=463 Basic Teaching on Human Dignity, Freedom and Rights]. Metropolitan Kyrill held a [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=documents&div=65 speech] at a conference in Vienna in 2006 where he said  this teaching is meaningful to all christans and at the UN Human Rights Council he [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=documents&div=121 said] in 2008 adoption of human rights is unsuccessful because it fades out moral. I believe this is important. Would there be interest to have an article on this topic?{{unsigned|Haiduk}}
 
  
:Perhaps you should make it a "sub-topic" under the [[Church of Russia]] since it is specific to their jurisdiction? I will give it a shot first if you want and then you can come in and edit??? Remember to sign your posts with three tilde (~) signs. [[User:Ixthis888|Vasiliki]] 00:45, December 19, 2008 (UTC)
+
Tom [[User:Tompkt|Tompkt]] 18:41, January 8, 2015 (PST)
  
:: I'm glad with just doing a revision. I agree adding it to [[Church of Russia]] would be adequate. It's up to you to follow Fr. Andrew advice or convince him, if that is possible  [[User:Haiduk|Haiduk]]
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:As far as I can tell, he would have been in [[w:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Orthodox_Patriarch_of_Jerusalem#Patriarchs_of_Jerusalem_in_exile|exile]], though I couldn't find anything specific to him.
::Honestly now, with no mucking around and with respect to Father Andrew its not MY job to convince and neither do I want to convince him since I trust what he is telling me :) However, if you wish to ..since it is your own idea ...go ahead. I merely was trying to be helpful but if its not appropriate for an article I can only just go with the guy who holds the petraxili .... :) [[User:Ixthis888|Vasiliki]] 14:30, December 19, 2008 (UTC)
 
:: Well, my salvation is not dependent on having such an article at OrthodoxWiki. I just wanted to ensure information about this declaration finds it's way into this community. I guess (since it is not easy to write a reasonable article on this subject) it might be better to forward it to english language blogs or forums such as monachos.net. --[[User:Haiduk|Haiduk]] 16:34, December 20, 2008 (UTC)
 
  
: That's interesting, but it's really more fit for a newspaper than an encyclopedia. &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]] <font face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">('''[[User:ASDamick/Wiki-philosophy|THINK!]]''')</font></small> 02:27, December 19, 2008 (UTC)
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::"At first, the crusaders treated the native Orthodox population of Antioch and Jerusalem with a degree of toleration. Since '''Patriarch Symeon of Jerusalem had died in exile in Cyprus''', the crusaders appointed a Latin, [[w:Arnulf of Chocques|Arnold of Choques]], to the Patriarchate. When he died after a few months, his successor, [[w:Dagobert of Pisa|Daimbert of Pisa]] threw the Orthodox out of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, called the Church of the Resurrection by the Orthodox. Significantly, the Holy Fire refused to appear on Holy Saturday, 1101, until he invited the Orthodox clergy to the ceremony. As a result, he adopted a more tolerant policy toward the native Orthodox of the Holy Land where the Orthodox clergy served under the Latin Patriarch."
 +
:::''The Historic Church: An Orthodox View of Christian History'' by Archpriest John W. Morris, [https://books.google.com/books?id=KdEgOBdJqxEC&pg=PA161&lpg=PA161#v=onepage&q&f=false p. 161]
 +
:::(Emphasis mine; Patr. Symeon was a predecessor of John VIII.)
  
==Orthodoxy in Italy==
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::"The Orthodox, however, also maintained a succession of '''patriarchs in exile in Cyprus and Constantinople''' (see Table 1). Only one of these, Leontius II, actually visited Jerusalem during the period of Crusader occupation..." :::''The Churches of the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem: Volume 3, the City of Jerusalem: A Corpus'' by Denys Pringle, [https://books.google.com/books?id=X0jH6VPi4-gC&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3#v=onepage&q&f=false p. 3].
I think it is completely inapropriate to use the title [[Orthodox Church in Italy]] for a non official orthodox church, that exists only 17 years, when in Italy orthodoxy has a history for many centuries. As far as I can see there is an article referred to [[Gennadios (Zervos) of Italy and Malta]] (the primate of the '''diocese of Italy of the Ecumenical Patriarchate'''), but there isn't an article for his archdiocese "Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Italy". Also in the english and italian wikipedia the problem is the same. It seems as if the users who created the "Orthodox Church in Italy" articles were really quickly to catch the title! But it should remain like this? I think no. And it is, in my point of view completely unacceptable if that happens also in the "Orthodoxwiki".--[[User:Sp!ros|Sp!ros]] 21:27, December 29, 2008 (UTC)
 
  
: Generally, we use whatever titles such groups give themselves, noting within the article that they are not in communion with mainstream Orthodoxy, etc.
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:I wasn't able to find very much else online, other than a reference to ''Ἡ ἔκταση τῆς ἐξουσίας ἑνὸς ὑπερόριου πατριάρχη: ὁ πατριάρχης Ἀντιοχείας στὴν Κωνσταντινούπολη τὸν 12ο αἰώνα''  , pp. 98ff. by Κ.Γ. Πιτσάκης regarding the word ὑπερόριος (in exile, as compared to titular). Hope that helps. —[[User:Magda|<b>magda</b>]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 22:16, January 8, 2015 (PST)
  
: In any event, I have removed the redirect and changed all the links to [[Chiesa Ortodossa in Italia]].
+
== Saint Menas ==
  
: You would be most welcome to provide the articles that you suggest are needed.  &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]] <font face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">('''[[User:ASDamick/Wiki-philosophy|THINK!]]''')</font></small> 20:58, December 31, 2008 (UTC)
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Hello,
  
== Archbishop Nikitas (Lulias) Cekal Archimandrit Daniel Bambang Dwi Biantoro ==
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I have recently been reading about Saint Menas and his story of martyrdom. I was wondering if someone could expound on his history. I know that he had an important vision and suffered some horrible tortures while declaring his Christianity. I read among the tortures that he "had his tongue torn out by the roots". ''Christianity in the Land of the Pharaohs'' by Jill Kamil, p119 Also, that his father Audexios had died when he was 14 and his mother prayed for a son and her wish was granted. He seems to be a very important person who we are not informed of enough.
  
Pada Februari 2007 lalu, Metropolitan Orthodox Hongkong dan Asia Tenggara, '''His Eminence Nikitas Lulias''' mengeluarkan keputusan pencekalan (pembebas-tugas-an) terhadap '''Archimandrit Daniel Bambang Dwi Biantoro''', yang artinya Archimandrit Daniel Bambang tidak diperkenankan lagi (''suspended'') untuk berbicara, melakukan tugas penggembalaan jemaat atas nama gereja. Meskipun archimandrit Daniel mengklaim dirinya menjadi bagian dari satu gereja tertentu, tapi yang bersangkutan tidak lagi menerima putusan/ ketetapan (''Canonical Release'')dari Gereja sebagaimana disyaratkan. Hal ini atas sepengetahuan '''Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople.''' {{unsigned|Maruli}}
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Thank you,
  
: I'm honestly not sure what language this is, but unless you post here in English, you're not likely to get too many responses. &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]] <font face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">('''[[User:ASDamick/Wiki-philosophy|THINK!]]''')</font></small> 18:46, January 4, 2009 (UTC)
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Tom [[User:Tompkt|Tompkt]] 08:57, January 10, 2015 (PST)

Revision as of 16:57, January 10, 2015

In a monastery, a trapeza (or refectory), is the dining hall where monks and pilgrims gather for food and conversation (although monks don't usually talk during meals). The OrthodoxWiki trapeza serves as the main discussion point for our website. Please feel free to join in—ask anything, suggest an idea, make a comment. We're glad to have you here. For other, more specifically designated discussion pages, check out the Community Portal.

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Holy Trinity Metafor

Hello,

Reading about the material universe, noticed that there are 3 infinities (or mysteries) that define our world:

1. --- The immensity of space-time, the boundless universe than nobody can say for sure how big it is, where it ends. Sure there are some theories that are accepted by most scientists, but also big anomalies if you apply the theory, that need to be corrected with inventions such as "dark matter" or "string theory" to fill in for obvious gaps.

2. --- The "small infinity" or mystery of the subatomic universe. We split the atoms in so many sub-particles, and the latest belief is that in fact all the matter is a concentration of energy. But where does matter end and pure energy begins?

I may be overcomplicating here, but it's just so poetic to notice how the science laws of the big universe and the small universe are in disagreement with each-other when it comes to apply the macrocosmos laws to microcosmos or the other way around, as if God intended things to be mysterious and impenetrable for the human mind.

3. --- The infinite complexity of life and intelligence. The connections in our brain are said to be more than all the stars in the universe. But how can this complexity come to be in only 4 billon years since our Earth is said to exist. This level of organisation of matter, first level: life, second level: intelligent life are both just unconceivable by science.

I want to ask you: could these 3 "infinities" be a reflection of the Holy Trinity in the material world? Or what is the theological view about those mysteries?

Thank you Mihai


New category

I was thinking of adding a category to be called "Propitiatory Offerings" where all of the things that are offered to God can be grouped together, inluding: Artoklasia, Kollyva, Proskomedia, Molieben, Incense, Myrrh, Votive Offerings, and things of this nature. Propitiatory Offerings in the Old Testament consisted mainly of sacrifices; in the Orthodox Church we have this new array of elements. Any ideas or comments? Is it accurate to describe it this way? Thanks and cheers. Angellight 888 20:34, May 18, 2011 (UTC)

Propitiation is a problematic concept for Orthodoxy and one I wouldn't be willing to endorse (e.g., I would never say, "We offer up incense as a propitiation to God"). That said, though, I've never heard of these things really being grouped together in traditional Orthodox writings. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 14:05, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification Father, cheers, Angellight 888 14:09, May 19, 2011 (UTC)

Calendar Days

Greetings. I had a look over at Wikipedia at their Orthodox "Calendar day" pages, and I liked how the pages were set up; instead of a block paragraph, with all the daily Saints blocked together as we have them here, they list them in a neatly ordered list (with bullets). This list could even be arranged chronologically for that particular day (i.e. with the oldest-in-time Saints listed first, the most recent saint for that day listed last).

Here is an example from Wikipedia for JUNE 4th. I would like to go into all of our Calendar Day pages for the entire year (all 365 days), and make the change form paragraph to list form, for ease of reading and better visual (and chronological) access. Would this be okay / sound good / any objections? (I don't mind doing the work). Cheers, Angellight 888 11:52, June 4, 2011 (UTC)

Twitter feed showing drug spam

I saw the following in my twitter feed:


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FYI.

JonathansCornerCom 12:11, August 17, 2011 (UTC)

It's been fixed. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 18:20, August 17, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! Great!

JonathansCornerCom 22:41, August 17, 2011 (UTC)

List of Enlighterners/Illuminators/Equals-to-the-Apostles

I realize that the purpose of the wiki structure is to allow anyone to edit. I hope OW will forgive my impertinence in merely suggesting (as opposed to creating myself) that it would be useful to have a list (or lists) corresponding to the different saint titles at illuminator .

I've thought of this because an LDS poster on a message board I frequent challenged non-LDS to name five of our own missionaries "whose exploits rival that of the LDS missionary work."

I think the OW category 'Missionaries' covers this with an extensive list. An article over a list of missionaries would be rather long! Wsk 01:22, September 18, 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the response WSK! I'm not seeing the category for 'Missionaries'...what am I missing? Jkotinek 19:57, September 19, 2011 (UTC)
NM. Found it. = ) Jkotinek 20:00, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Confesion

Where may I find info abour Confession? I did a search for that subject & coldn't fnd it. After a long absence from Church, I returned in February 2012. I've had four o five cnfessions snce then. Every tme I try to confess, I'm often fogettng sins. Dad told me it's okay to say "I can't recall others, but I read that it's not ok May 12, 2012 Brooklyn, NY Thank you Irene Nikolsky

I think it's good to talk with a priest, but also you might find some helpful resources at http://stspress.com/ or http://svspress.com - — FrJohn (talk) 16:34, May 12, 2012 (HST)

Basic Information

Is there a website that helps people and/or teenagers with basic Q&As about our religion? I have teen son, who was baptized Orthodox. Because my church is in Russian he doesn't want to go. I thought if I could find basic info for him, then he'd believe me that there are English speaking Eastern Orthodox members. Thank you, Irene Nikolsky Broolyn, NY

Greetings Irene. Of course, there are A LOT of English-speaking (and non-Russian) Orthodox people -- For Q+A, you might try http://orthodoxanswers.org/ -- — FrJohn (talk)

Orthodox wiki stats

Is there a way to look at statistics for various pages by day, week, month, and year? --Kalvesmaki 16:03, May 17, 2012 (HST)

Diocese evolution in North America

One aspect that I have had in preparing my contributions to Orthodoxwiki concerns an accurate presentation of the ecclesiastical structure of the Orthodox in North America. While sources concerning the earliest century, notably in the OCA 1975 publication, give a fairly clear picture of the founding of dioceses and vicariates, the last century is blurred.

Various sources seem to present a good picture of the history of the structure of the Greek and Antiochian diocese, but the picture within the Russian based organizations gets blurred as the twentieth century progressed. The history of the Russian mission to North America seems clear to the first decade of the twentieth century when the Vicariates of Alaska and Brooklyn were formed. As hierarchs were installed with sees named Canada, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Winnipeg, Montreal, San Francisco, Detroit, Boston, and others through the time of the Metropolia, apparently as Vicariates of the North American Diocese that commonly was called the Metropolia. The formation of any of these Vicariates as Dioceses came apparently only after the granting of autocephaly to the the "Metropolia" and, thus, bishops of these sees prior to 1970 were apparently "titular/vicar/assistant bishops, not diocesan bishops. A question in my mind is, were the bishops of the "ethnic dioceses" vicars or ruling bishops?

The picture for bishops and dioceses of ROCOR in North America is less clear as to when the "titular" sees ceased being "titular" and may have become real dioceses.

Recent updates to articles about North American dioceses makes necessary a clear understanding of the evolution of the North American ecclesiastical structure so that Orthodoxwiki articles don't imply existence of dioceses before they came into existence.

The above is my assumption of the history of the development of the dioceses in North America. Sources/references and text within articles that clarifies the evolution of the North American structure are needed to assure accuracy in the articles. Wsk 05:07, September 12, 2012 (HST)

GOARCH link URLs format

One thing I'm constantly running into (and correcting as I go along) is the format of URLs leading to GOARCH's Online Chapel Saints pages being out of date (and leading to the "that page doesn't exist" message). They have changed formats at least once (maybe twice based on what I've seen here), and unfortunately, they haven't set any redirects, whether programmatically or via HTTP 301. (I've thought about contacting them about it, but haven't gotten up the nerve to do so)

Example:

I've pondered a bit about what should be done here. Obviously, one thing -- which I'm already doing -- is making the necessary correction every time I see one on a page. However, that's just a few out of the potentially hundreds of outdated links there could be. Something else could be developing a bot that would search all pages and update the links automatically. I don't know how to do that, but I know what they'd need to do. Anyways, I just wanted to bring it to everyone's (in particular the sysops') attention, as this is (warning: assumptions lie ahead) a widespread problem, and a potential hindrance from people getting the proper information (i.e. not knowing how to get to the right URL, or just giving up and saying "oh well, another bad link"). It may seem like a small thing, but it definitely means a lot to me, as I would hate for people to not be able to easily get to the information they need.

If I can help, other than my edit-one-when-I-see-it method, just let me know. Phil Harwell (paharwell) 08:36, December 11, 2012 (HST)

Canonicity of Revelation

27 January 2013

I am in research on a book dealing with the issues surrounding the acceptance of the book of Revelation into the New Testament. (Definitely not an exegetical commentary – there are many hundreds of them already!) I would appreciate some advice on a specific area of research that is giving me difficulty: the history of Revelation’s acceptance in the Eastern church in the 2nd through 5th centuries, and perhaps later. In publications I have found so far, there is sometimes a distinction drawn between the acceptance of Revelation in early Western vs Eastern Christianity: acceptance was much more rapid and widespread in the West. I have yet to find, however, much insight into why acceptance was slower in the East. What was the nature of the misgivings that the fathers of the Eastern church evidently had? Who, by name, expressed those misgivings? When, how, and under what circumstances? What finally prompted the Eastern Christian churches to accept Revelation? Did they do so gladly or grudgingly? How do Orthodox Christians tend to see Revelation today? Is it often preached? Were there other issues or background that I seem not to have contemplated? Can you recommend books or articles that address these matters?

To hit only some highlights, these are factors that perturbed the acceptance of Revelation in the Western church; perhaps they were voiced in the Eastern church as well:

• Questions of apostolicity.

o Revelation was probably written about 95 A.D. The disciple John (son of Zebedee) would have been quite old at this time, beyond normal life expectancy. There is reason to believe he died about 70 A.D.

o The Greek language of Revelation is quite different from the Greek of the Fourth Gospel, strongly indicating they could not have been written by the same person.

o John bar Zebedee was not known to have had an oversight responsibility of the seven churches to whom Revelation was addressed.

• Questions of orthodoxy.

o Revelation shares characteristics with many Gnostic writings, especially in its good-evil dualism and its frequent focus on secret knowledge.

o Revelation speaks of the Millennium, the thousand-year period after Christ’s return when all believers live happily with Him on earth before the final confrontation with Satan. This concept is absent from the Gospels and Epistles, and it is one of the reasons that Cerinthus (active in Asia Minor at the time Revelation was written there) was declared a heretic.

o It is not difficult to read in Revelation a theology of salvation by works rather than of salvation by grace through faith in Christ.

Any insights or recommendations on the Orthodox perspective on the canonicity of Revelation would be most welcome. I expect to be in research for the rest of 2013, with writing in early 2014.

Thanks very much

David in Lexington, VA

Mullerjrd 13:43, January 27, 2013 (HST)
Hi David, Unfortunately I don't have any resources in mind (you might check more general Orthodox sources on Scripture). Basically, we do accept Revelation as a canonical book, but we do not read it liturgically and so it is relatively unemphasized (but still significant!). We do not accept "millennialism" and are basically "amillennial". I wonder if anyone else knows of specific resources that might be helpful? — FrJohn (talk) 21:43, January 31, 2013 (HST)

Bible Text

I was thinking what if we had the LXX bible on OrthodoxWiki, so you could read the bible used by the Orthodox on this site. -ShenLazar 02:18, August 21, 2013 (HST)

Hi ShenLazar, I don't think this belongs on OrthodoxWiki, although it would be a great project for another site. Various versions of the LXX (Greek, English translations, etc.) are available elsewhere. There are links at Septuagint. Difficulties of putting the text here include the question of which translation to use, as well as copyright restrictions on some of the better ones. A more extensive article with links and a good evaluation of the differences between translations could be helpful though. — FrJohn (talk) 23:20, August 24, 2013 (HST)

Is Revelations 21:27 a good proof of Purgatory?

According to Revelations 21:27, "But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or cause an abomination or lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life"

Q: This verse seems to be supporting the idea of Purgatory that we must be "purified" or "cleansed" before we enter the Kingdom of God. What's the Orthodox belief/perspective of this verse?

Upcoming council

Ecumenical This upcoming council has been preemptively and prematurely called ecumenical by the press. I'm interested in seeing if this wiki has info on it. I figured that an article here would probably be the best Orthodox perspective. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 23:47, March 10, 2014 (PDT)

No info here that I know of -- I don't think we are great at breaking news. I would just say, however, that there are two senses of ecumenical at play here. I believe the council may be called "ecumenical" in a soft sense, i.e. universal. But this does not automatically give it an authority equivalent to the "Ecumenical Councils" - — FrJohn (talk)

OrthodoxWiki in Serbian

First - hello to everyone, as I am quite new here.

Then...

I saw that there is a designated space for this Wiki in Serbian language, but there are no articles at all. I would love to help here and I think that that would be the best way I could help, since Serbian is my native language. So, I was wondering can I start working on that and if I can, if there is anyone who want and can help? --Erin Navan 00:38, April 15, 2014 (PDT)

Crucifixion of Christ

Hey guys, do we have an article on the crucifixion and death of Christ? The only thing I can find is Holy Week and the Exaltation of Christ. ShenLazar 16:22, April 23, 2014 (PDT)

Infobox for saints

Wikipedia has an infobox for saints where you can get details like birth, death, feast days, etc. very easily (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_saint). Would this be something that OrthdoxWiki could implement? I tried using this code here, but it doesn't seem to have whatever is needed under the hood to make it work. Thanks! Angelina123 14:24, June 9, 2014 (PDT)

St. John of Chicago

I've been doing some poking around into the history of the Orthodox Church in Chicago and the parishes that St. John of Chicago founded. I have a question regarding this. Fr. John spent a dozen years in the US, and it looks like he consistently spelled his last name "Kochuroff". This is how it is listed in the 1900 US census, and all the contemporaneous newspaper articles, and even his son's birth certificate. Doing a Newspaper Archive, the first use that shows up as "Kochurov" is in 1994. I know this shift is due to the change in Russian transliteration over the years, but being as the "V" ending is not how he spelled his name I was wondering if we really ought to go back to that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Katjuscha (talkcontribs) .

Information on Bishop of Jerusalem

Hello,

I am interested in finding information on John VIII (1106-1156) Bishop of Jerusalem. I wanted to know if at that time he was actually in Jerusalem or exiled in Constantinople because of the Crusaders? I have read that there was a strong relationship with the Lavra of San Savvas and the Crusaders at that time. Was wondering if he may have actually been there instead of Jerusalem.

Thank you,

Tom Tompkt 18:41, January 8, 2015 (PST)

As far as I can tell, he would have been in exile, though I couldn't find anything specific to him.
"At first, the crusaders treated the native Orthodox population of Antioch and Jerusalem with a degree of toleration. Since Patriarch Symeon of Jerusalem had died in exile in Cyprus, the crusaders appointed a Latin, Arnold of Choques, to the Patriarchate. When he died after a few months, his successor, Daimbert of Pisa threw the Orthodox out of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, called the Church of the Resurrection by the Orthodox. Significantly, the Holy Fire refused to appear on Holy Saturday, 1101, until he invited the Orthodox clergy to the ceremony. As a result, he adopted a more tolerant policy toward the native Orthodox of the Holy Land where the Orthodox clergy served under the Latin Patriarch."
The Historic Church: An Orthodox View of Christian History by Archpriest John W. Morris, p. 161
(Emphasis mine; Patr. Symeon was a predecessor of John VIII.)
"The Orthodox, however, also maintained a succession of patriarchs in exile in Cyprus and Constantinople (see Table 1). Only one of these, Leontius II, actually visited Jerusalem during the period of Crusader occupation..." :::The Churches of the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem: Volume 3, the City of Jerusalem: A Corpus by Denys Pringle, p. 3.
I wasn't able to find very much else online, other than a reference to Ἡ ἔκταση τῆς ἐξουσίας ἑνὸς ὑπερόριου πατριάρχη: ὁ πατριάρχης Ἀντιοχείας στὴν Κωνσταντινούπολη τὸν 12ο αἰώνα , pp. 98ff. by Κ.Γ. Πιτσάκης regarding the word ὑπερόριος (in exile, as compared to titular). Hope that helps. —magda (talk) 22:16, January 8, 2015 (PST)

Saint Menas

Hello,

I have recently been reading about Saint Menas and his story of martyrdom. I was wondering if someone could expound on his history. I know that he had an important vision and suffered some horrible tortures while declaring his Christianity. I read among the tortures that he "had his tongue torn out by the roots". Christianity in the Land of the Pharaohs by Jill Kamil, p119 Also, that his father Audexios had died when he was 14 and his mother prayed for a son and her wish was granted. He seems to be a very important person who we are not informed of enough.

Thank you,

Tom Tompkt 08:57, January 10, 2015 (PST)