Category talk:Saints

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== Greek saints? ==
 
== Greek saints? ==
  
Where is article for Greek saints?
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Where is article for Greek saints? {{unsigned|MshKlimek}}
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: There is not currently such an article.  There is also not yet such a category.  The difficulty with this idea in particular is that ''Greek'' is a term that would be hard to delimit.  How far back does that go?  Is every saint in the ancient Eastern Roman Empire considered "Greek"?  How should we properly define such a category?  &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</small> 05:02, June 1, 2007 (PDT)
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No disrespect intended, however, there is nothing wrong with that. Technically, if you were of the Byzantine Era then you were classified "Greek" so therefore this history and term usage should be respected and not changed merely because we have in the last 20 years to become so politically sensitive. On another note, if the moderators (you) still do not want to do it thats ok but consider that there are indeed many saints who are of Greek origin (born/martyred in Greece). For example, I have added Saint Philothei of Athens and this category does not exist to honour this Country ... it almost feels as if there is a prejudice torwards Greece which is not right ... We should respect this country just as much as any other Country since it too has contributed much to Orthodoxy ... {{unsigned|Ixthis888}}
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: It's not so much a question of whether the modern Greek state has contributed saints to Orthodoxy, which she certainly has.  It's that a category given as "Greek saints" would almost necessarily be too broad to be useful.  Categories are meant to limit and exclude so as to make browsing easier.  (All this is aside from the fact that, to the Fathers, ''Greek'' (Hellene) was a term for pagans, not for Christians.  ''Roman'' was the term that the so-called "Byzantines" used for themselves.  It was not until the last century or two of the Empire that ''Hellene'' started regaining currency among Christians.)
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: So it's not a prejudice against Greece -- it's that there are far too many saints who might in some sense be considered "Greek" to make the category in any sense useful.  Its contents might be only slightly smaller than the "Saints" category itself.
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: Perhaps a "Greek saints" category (or, better yet, "Modern Greek saints") might be useful if it were limited to the modern Greek state (as founded in 1821), though I'd predict that managing it to remain thus limited would prove a rather large and annoying task.  (Something tells me that any saint with a remotely Greek name would end up getting included, and there'd be endless nationalistic battles "claiming" various saints.)  &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</small> 18:20, January 14, 2008 (PST)
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::OK, I understand your point. 1821 onwards sounds like a logical point (to keep volumes down) however, in my head, I would like to see LOCAL saints being coined 'Greek' ie. Either they were born in Greece and martyred in Greece (hence a Church is built on that spot that has their relics IN Greece.
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::Is that OK? I have put two examples on the "Greek Saints" category ... and I think I forgot to link St Theodora of Thessaloniki too. take a look and tell me what you think? Vasiliki (Ixthis888) [[User:Ixthis888|Vicki]] 19:10, January 14, 2008 (PST)
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The whole concept of ''national'' saints is odd to the (orthodox) christian mindset. We believe that in the Church ''There is neither Jew nor Greek'' (Gal. 3, 28). It can also bring not little confusion, and potentially also - uneccessary and unfruitful nationalistic quarrels. Look, for example, at the Saints pages on different languages - you'll find that saints listed in one national category in one language, are listed under a different nation in another language - because each nation tends to claim the saint its own.
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The correct and orthodox approach is seen on the greek version of OrthodoxWiki - where the saints are categorized as we mention them in the Church - as Apostles, Martyrs, Monks etc. I guess that's why the national category ''Greek'' is missing - (metanoia to the greeks for that)!
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[[User:K.panteleimon|K.panteleimon]] 21:04, May 31, 2009 (UTC)
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== Caching Problem? ==
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Does anyone else have the same problem that I do? The ''previous'', ''next'', or any of the ''Contents TOC'' links return the same page unless I am logged in.  (I've noticed that the date on the Main Page is sometimes wrong if I am not logged in also.)  Does caching pages for those not logged on work differently for logged on folks? - [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 09:25, April 4, 2008 (PDT)
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== Double categories ==
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For example, Saint [[Herman of Alaska]], is it necessary that he is categorized in both American Saints and Saints? American Saints is a subcategory of Saints. [[User:Apostolic Seeker|Apostolic Seeker]] 16:48, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
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: See:  [[OrthodoxWiki:Style_Manual#Categories]].  &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]] <font face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">('''[[User:ASDamick/Wiki-philosophy|THINK!]]''')</font></small> 20:30, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 13:30, June 20, 2010

Should we find a way to separate out "Saints by Date" and "Saints by Name"? Maybe also "Saints by Location"? It would be clearer if we separated them, but what is the best way to do this? Thanks, FrJohn

I would think that most of this is automatically taken care of by the internal Search function of the wiki. As far as dates are concerned, there is the Church Calendar article and of course the Search function does that, too. --Rdr. Andrew 16:03, 18 Jan 2005 (CST)

Greek saints?

Where is article for Greek saints? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MshKlimek (talkcontribs) .

There is not currently such an article. There is also not yet such a category. The difficulty with this idea in particular is that Greek is a term that would be hard to delimit. How far back does that go? Is every saint in the ancient Eastern Roman Empire considered "Greek"? How should we properly define such a category? —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 05:02, June 1, 2007 (PDT)

No disrespect intended, however, there is nothing wrong with that. Technically, if you were of the Byzantine Era then you were classified "Greek" so therefore this history and term usage should be respected and not changed merely because we have in the last 20 years to become so politically sensitive. On another note, if the moderators (you) still do not want to do it thats ok but consider that there are indeed many saints who are of Greek origin (born/martyred in Greece). For example, I have added Saint Philothei of Athens and this category does not exist to honour this Country ... it almost feels as if there is a prejudice torwards Greece which is not right ... We should respect this country just as much as any other Country since it too has contributed much to Orthodoxy ... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ixthis888 (talkcontribs) .

It's not so much a question of whether the modern Greek state has contributed saints to Orthodoxy, which she certainly has. It's that a category given as "Greek saints" would almost necessarily be too broad to be useful. Categories are meant to limit and exclude so as to make browsing easier. (All this is aside from the fact that, to the Fathers, Greek (Hellene) was a term for pagans, not for Christians. Roman was the term that the so-called "Byzantines" used for themselves. It was not until the last century or two of the Empire that Hellene started regaining currency among Christians.)
So it's not a prejudice against Greece -- it's that there are far too many saints who might in some sense be considered "Greek" to make the category in any sense useful. Its contents might be only slightly smaller than the "Saints" category itself.
Perhaps a "Greek saints" category (or, better yet, "Modern Greek saints") might be useful if it were limited to the modern Greek state (as founded in 1821), though I'd predict that managing it to remain thus limited would prove a rather large and annoying task. (Something tells me that any saint with a remotely Greek name would end up getting included, and there'd be endless nationalistic battles "claiming" various saints.) —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 18:20, January 14, 2008 (PST)
OK, I understand your point. 1821 onwards sounds like a logical point (to keep volumes down) however, in my head, I would like to see LOCAL saints being coined 'Greek' ie. Either they were born in Greece and martyred in Greece (hence a Church is built on that spot that has their relics IN Greece.
Is that OK? I have put two examples on the "Greek Saints" category ... and I think I forgot to link St Theodora of Thessaloniki too. take a look and tell me what you think? Vasiliki (Ixthis888) Vicki 19:10, January 14, 2008 (PST)

The whole concept of national saints is odd to the (orthodox) christian mindset. We believe that in the Church There is neither Jew nor Greek (Gal. 3, 28). It can also bring not little confusion, and potentially also - uneccessary and unfruitful nationalistic quarrels. Look, for example, at the Saints pages on different languages - you'll find that saints listed in one national category in one language, are listed under a different nation in another language - because each nation tends to claim the saint its own. The correct and orthodox approach is seen on the greek version of OrthodoxWiki - where the saints are categorized as we mention them in the Church - as Apostles, Martyrs, Monks etc. I guess that's why the national category Greek is missing - (metanoia to the greeks for that)! K.panteleimon 21:04, May 31, 2009 (UTC)

Caching Problem?

Does anyone else have the same problem that I do? The previous, next, or any of the Contents TOC links return the same page unless I am logged in. (I've noticed that the date on the Main Page is sometimes wrong if I am not logged in also.) Does caching pages for those not logged on work differently for logged on folks? - Andrew 09:25, April 4, 2008 (PDT)

Double categories

For example, Saint Herman of Alaska, is it necessary that he is categorized in both American Saints and Saints? American Saints is a subcategory of Saints. Apostolic Seeker 16:48, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

See: OrthodoxWiki:Style_Manual#Categories. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs (THINK!) 20:30, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
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