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		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/Talk:Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia</id>
		<title>Talk:Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia</title>
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				<updated>2007-12-20T20:24:09Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* Undid numerous Agenda driven edits */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;I'm not sure how the Monks of HTM being &amp;quot;English speakers&amp;quot; is germane to becoming responsible for communication and publications. Did they become responsible for '''English language''' material? If so, the article should reflect that. If there is some other link, that should be noted. Otherwise, the clause about them being speakers of English is irrelevant, I think, and should be omitted.&lt;br /&gt;
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Many thanks to the anonymous editor who helped with this article. You should consider getting an account so we know whom to thank next time. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 13:46, 16 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:The anonymous editor is a monastic friend of mine and something of an expert on ROCOR history.  I asked him to help with the article.&lt;br /&gt;
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:I think the issue regarding English language stuff is because the ROCOR bishops of the time were mainly in the US but largely not very good with English.  --[[User:ASDamick|Rdr. Andrew]] 19:34, 16 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I could tell he was an expert. Very helpful. Please thank him for us. And thanks for the clarification. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 15:14, 17 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;Sources close to the synod&amp;quot; ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the &amp;quot;Rapprochement&amp;quot; section, recent edits were made with statements based on &amp;quot;sources&amp;quot; close to the synod.  Unless these sources can be cited, it's really not much more than rumor.  If there's no one on record as saying something, it makes it quite hard to justify inclusion of such material.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;blue&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;&amp;lt;i&amp;gt;Dcn. Andrew&amp;lt;/i&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[Special:Randompage|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;blue&amp;quot;&amp;gt;random&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 18:04, May 26, 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Rapprochement with Moscow ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I suspect that this section will need a major revision/rewrite once ROCOR and Moscow repair their communion, which is slated to take place on May 17, 2006 in Moscow. The Rapprochement section here could be rewritten as a closed narrative as opposed to an ongoing news event. Certainly there will be a bit more news surrounding the event and the ongoing relations between the two, but as the act of canonical communion becomes a reality and is enacted, I suspect that much on this page will have to be rewritten. What do you all think? {{unsigned|Maximos}}&lt;br /&gt;
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: Certainly!  Articles should be as up to date as possible.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 10:48, December 29, 2006 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Population ==&lt;br /&gt;
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A recent edit quoted a [http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1622544,00.html Time Magazine] article, which estimates the ROCOR population at 500k to 1.5m.  Since the ROCOR has roughly 400 parishes worldwide, this would put the average parish size at 1250 to 3750.  That doesn't seem even remotely realistic to me.&lt;br /&gt;
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By contrast, a recent [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=interview&amp;amp;div=51 interview] with Archpriest Alexander Lebedev puts the figure at 60k to 100k (an average of 150 to 250 per parish).  It seems to me that an official spokesman for the ROCOR being directly interviewed is more to be believed than Time Magazine.&lt;br /&gt;
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What do you think?  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:43, May 30, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== 60,000 to 100,000 ?? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This is an OCA created number.  The Russian Church Abroad has always been larger than the OCA.  For example, there are 50,000 faithful in New York alone!  The closer number is 1.35 million worldwide.  The Church lost over 150,000 members in Russia and South America because of its reunion with the Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
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Get it right. {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
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: The 60k to 100k figure comes from [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=interview&amp;amp;div=51 an interview with ROCOR spokesman Fr. Alexander Lebedev].  I have my doubts that he gets his jurisdiction's statistics from the OCA.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:50, May 30, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Fr. Alexander is a good man, but, he is not the official spokesman the Church.  He just speaks alot!  :) {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Just a note on this -- to me, when dealing with something as concrete as numbers, I would probably trust a secular demographer more than an official spokesman of any church. I don't think &amp;quot;official&amp;quot; really matters here, except perrhaps in terms of access to information. — [[User:FrJohn|&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;FrJohn&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;section=new talk])&lt;br /&gt;
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::I think the discrepency is that Fr. Alexander was talking about the numbers of people who regularly go to Church, and the larger numbers include people who come to Church when they are hatched, matched, and dispatched.  Perhaps some standard should be used that is applied to all jurisdictions, because I think most of them go with the higher numbers which include people who have loose affiliations with the Church.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 03:49, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Fr. John W., I think these are awfully sane words. I know the OCA has at least two rough sets of statistics, wildly different, based on whether one is talking about the larger enthic-affiiliated community, or actually church-goers. Maybe we should put a note in the style manual about this. Personally, I'd prefer the actual church-goer number, but I don't mind if both are listed and identified. Of course, all of these are approximate. — [[User:FrJohn|&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;FrJohn&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;section=new talk])&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: I think nailing this down in the style manual would be a great idea. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 17:32, June 6, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::It should also be pointed out that Fr. Alexander used the words &amp;quot;possibly&amp;quot; which would indicate he was giving a guesstimate.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 03:51, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Fr. John, do you know of an officially published ROCOR estimate concerning itself?  The problem here is having something reliable to cite.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 05:32, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: I'm trying to see what I can come up with.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 05:24, June 3, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::I have not been able to find anything as of yet from ROCOR documents... but if you look at Bishop Kallistos' &amp;quot;The Orthodox Church&amp;quot;, the 1994 edition, he puts the number at &amp;quot;perhaps 150,000&amp;quot;. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 17:32, June 6, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== You logic is flawed Fr. Andrei ==&lt;br /&gt;
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If you use that average system, then the OCA would only have 85,000 people??  And the Antiochians only 35,000.  I know of Antiochian parishes that have only 4 people.  Your logic is severely flawed.  The ROCOR lists &amp;quot;officially&amp;quot; 500,000 people.  The Church does not list the total number of parishes in Russia and the Ukraine (This may change due to the union.)  But, it is still hesitant because of Moscow's demands over these parishes which number, nearly 775.  Yes, that's right, 775!!!  Not all are listed.  Only 20 are listed.  But in truth the total number is closer to 1.35 million.&lt;br /&gt;
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I have seen these parishes with my own eyes.  &lt;br /&gt;
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The 1.5 million is a number supplied from the Russian government itself.  The Church Abroad has always kept these numbers low to protect themselves. &lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.dioceseinfo.org/DOCUMENTS/Diocese/commission2.html&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.neobyzantine.org/blog/viewtopic.php?p=3793&lt;br /&gt;
http://templars.wordpress.com/2007/05/21/putins-reunited-russian-church/&lt;br /&gt;
http://action-ukraine-report.blogspot.com/2007/05/aur844-may-18-enduring-crisis-in.html&lt;br /&gt;
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The ROCOR Church in Brooklyn was established to care for 11,000 Russians in Brooklyn who expressed interest in starting a church closer to where they live.  Several thousand were present for Pascha last year.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Cathedral in San Francisco has several thousand as well, these are two parishes (you do the math.) {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
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: *shrug*  I have no idea what you've seen, nor who you are (though I do have some reason to doubt that you've seen all 400 or 775 of ROCOR's parishes).  All I know is that the man whom the ROCOR appointed as the secretary of the commission which negotiated the union with the MP said one thing, and an anonymous editor on this wiki is saying another.  Fr. Alexander has much more credibility on this matter, methinks.&lt;br /&gt;
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: Even Fr. Alexey Young's 1993 history of the ROCOR says that &amp;quot;the figure probably does not exceed 50,000 worldwide&amp;quot; (p. 108).  I find it hard to believe that the ROCOR has grown by 1,450,000 people in the 12 years since it was published.&lt;br /&gt;
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: The links you post here are interesting, but none are even statements from anyone in the ROCOR.  We need verifiable, published statements by authoritative figures for stuff like this, not estimates in news sources, some of which are entirely anonymous.  &lt;br /&gt;
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: By the way, if you're a Greek, why did you change my name to &amp;quot;Fr. '''Andrei'''&amp;quot;?  Heheh.  ;)  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 19:24, May 30, 2007 (PDT) (a.k.a. Πάτερ Ανδρέας)&lt;br /&gt;
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Sorry its a bad habit.  I have many friends in the Russian Church and the Church Abroad, every parish seems to have an &amp;quot;Andrei,&amp;quot;  it can throw you off. The proper spelling according to the Greek/English variant is &amp;quot;Ohndreas.&amp;quot;  Of course &amp;quot;Andreas&amp;quot; is a more popular spelling, but linguistically inaccurate.  I had a Greek friend who would call himself &amp;quot;Andrei&amp;quot; and would argue with me relentlessly that his name was in fact Greek, I explained it was a &amp;quot;form&amp;quot; of the original Greek.  Being a Professor of Linguistics in Ancient Greek, I think I would know better. &lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Slava|Slava]] 10:54, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Undid numerous Agenda driven edits ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I undid numerous agenda driven edits by Samson1957.  Orthodoxwiki is not a forum for Old Calendarists schismatics to promote their schismatic agenda.  Read the policies of this web site. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 20:12, December 11, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Dear Fr. John:&lt;br /&gt;
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:What is amazing is that an unsourced accusation is permitted to stand, and my edits regarding the patriarch, which are sourced are removed. His background, given ROCOR prior anti-Soviet stance, is very relevant. ROCOR's prior affiliation some 20 years ago with Holy Transfiguration Monastery does not seem relevant, except to disparage the reputation of HOCNA. Again, there is no source for the allegation that they left the Greek Archdiocese due to sexual scandal. &lt;br /&gt;
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:The edits that you seem to run away from, seem to express you desire to promote your own agenda, that is to whitewash and re-write ROCOR's history.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
:The edit regarding Bishop Agafangel, and the 100 priests that left with him, has also been removed. Why? How is that not relevant, if Fr. John insists on listing him as a suspended Bishop? &lt;br /&gt;
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  &lt;br /&gt;
:I find it inappropriate for you to make accusations which you do not support with a mainstrean source, which, I may add, seems to contradict the rules of this site.  You are intent on repeating accusations against Holy Transfiguration Monastery. If the accusations were true, where are the lawsuits that would inevitably follow in this litigious society.  When ROCOR had its own issues with pedaphilia, in Blanco Texas, they were sued.  Is ROCOR pedaphilia scandal and their law suit settlement relevant to the ROCOR article?  I do not think so, so I did not add it, but perhaps it should be added, together with copies of the deposition of what happened as a source? &lt;br /&gt;
:I copy below my note to the moderator, who seems to agree with your position that Alexei's past as a KGB agent, which I sourced to the front page Wall Street Journal article of July 17, 2007 is not relevant.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Would it be relevant to add after Bishop Peter, that he was uncanonically elevated without an investigation, whe a sub deacon objected to his elevation and spoke ANAXIOUS? The canons are clear on this, yet if I add that comment, it seems you would &amp;quot;lock me out&amp;quot; of use. Would it be relevant that Bishop Michael was anatamatized by Metropolitan Vitaly?, or would that be edited out as well? &lt;br /&gt;
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:My purpose here is simply for people to be aware of facts, whereas Fr. John's purpose, and now it seems yours as well, is to tell only your version of events, which describe as &amp;quot;mainstream&amp;quot;. I did not realize that truth or accusation was governed by consensus. &lt;br /&gt;
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:Unless Fr. John can provide support for his accusations, such as a mainstream newspaper, I ask that his inflamatory, and self serving accusations regarding other jurisdictions be removed. &lt;br /&gt;
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:Retrieved from &amp;quot;http://orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:Samson1957&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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::I can provide you with documentation to support what I have said about HTM... which accusations in particular would you like documentation for?  As for the absence of lawsuits connected with HTM, there were no accusations of pedophilia that I am aware of.  All the 20 monks that accused Panteleimon were adults. As for the claim that Agafangel has 100 parishes, you provided no source for that assertion.  It seems like a rather unlikely round number to me. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 20:28, December 13, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Dear Fr. John:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I note that you do not comment on Alexei's KGB affiliation, which I take as you acceptance of that fact.  As such, should it not be included in the text? or is the truth not palatable?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::With regard to your accusations against HTM, yes please show me one iota of evidence that HTM left the Greek Archdiocese due to a sexual scandal.  If you cannot produce it, please remove the reference.  With regard to lawsuits, I did not suggest that pedaphilia was ever alleged at HTM, I suggested that sexual assault would have been met by a lawsuit.  Pedaphilia lawsuits have only been brought against ROCOR for the Blanco situation.  Since you seem intent on posting inflamatory accusations about HTM, please also reference the ROCOR scandals in Blanco, and the lack of investigation ROCOR undertook before accepting these &amp;quot;priests&amp;quot;.  Why is it that you do not argue the points raised by HTM, with regard to canons or ecclesiology?  Instead you choose to simply disparage HTM, based upon unproven accusations.  Is HTM such a thorn in your side that you seem intent on including them in your article about ROCOR?  If their affiliation with ROCOR is so important to your article, please identify what their positions were, that you believe were so out of line with ROCORs.  Please do so with proper cites.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::With regard to Bishop Agafangel, you are right, 100 is a round number.  Last count was 87.  Would you like me to post the addresses and contact information for these parishes, with my edit?  This would save time for anyone who wished to go to those parishes.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I also not that you make no comment regarding Bishop Peter's elevation, or Metropolitan's anathema of Bishop Michael.  Is that not relevant to an objective history of ROCOR?&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I look forward to your response.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Nat&lt;br /&gt;
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::::As for the allegations against Patriarch Alexei, no, I do not believe them to be true.  You apparently do not understand that a wiki is not a debate forum, and your comments about Patriarch Alexei are completely out of place in this article.  In the article about Patriarch Alexei it would not be inappropriate to reference them, but they would have to presented as accusations, rather than facts, since they are in fact only accusations.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::As for HTM, the quote you are reference was in this article long before I began editing in OrthodoxWiki.  I would not have phrased it the way that it is.  My understanding is that the Greek Archdiocese was investigating charges against HTM, when they left them and came to ROCOR.  I don't believe that this was the result of a public scandal at that time.  But regardless, that is clearly why they left ROCOR.  I do address HTM's arguments.  See [http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/hocna_facts.htm HOCNA Facts]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::As for the Blanco Scandal, ROCOR never tried to cover it up, and Blanco never tried to justify leaving ROCOR on the basis of ROCOR being modernists and Ecumenists.  HTM does try to make false claims about why they left, and has tried to cover up the facts of the matter.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::As for Agafangel's parishes, you have not presented any reliable sources for your claims for his numbers.  As for Bishop Peter's elevation, you cannot cite any canons to justify your assertion that the voice of one objector to the consecration of a bishop invalidates his consecration.  When a bishop-elect is preparing to be consecrated, there are plenty of opportunities for objectors to raise any issues that they wish.  Criticisms of bishop Peter were presented, our bishops considered them, and they did not accept them -- perhaps on the basis of the Scriptures and the Canons which state that we should not receive an accusation against a presbyter except at the testimony of two or three witnesses. There is no right for an individual to veto the bishops at the last moment, when the prayers of consecration have already taken place. That is nonsense.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::As for the retired Metropolitans alleged anathematizing of Bishop Michael, it is irrelevant because #1, retired bishops don't have such authority, and #2, even active bishops do not have the authority to anathematize a fellow bishop on their own, without any consultation of anyone else.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::If you intend to be a constructive editor here, I suggest you read the [[MCB]] and abide by it.  You also need to learn how to indent your comments, and sign your name to your comments. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 21:16, December 14, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You state that this is not a debate forum, however, that is exactly what you are trying to do.  Why is Holy Transfiguration Monastery even relevant to an article on ROCOR.  You state that the edit regarding Patriarch Alexei, and his KGB past which was sourced, was not appropriate, yet an entire heading on the ROCOR page is dedicated to disparaging a different jurisdiction.  If a heading is appropriate regarding Holy Transfiguration, how about a heading regarding the Metropolia/OCA, and how ROCOR issued an official protocol breaking communion with them.  How about a heading identifying all the official protocols ROCOR issued condemning the MP.  How about a heading explaining Metropolitan Philaret's Sorrowful Epistles, as they seem now also to apply to ROCOR.  How about a heading concerning the Anathema of 1983, and how it seemingly applies not to ROCOR, and as a result, ROCOR was obliged to essentially &amp;quot;void&amp;quot; the Anathema of 1983.  All these seem to deal directly with ROCOR, while HOCNA's prior association with ROCOR is at best a footnote.  However, you bias is clear, when you call HOCNA's views &amp;quot;narrow-minded and incorrect views &amp;quot;.  Would you un-edit me, if I said, some people believe that ROCOR has fallen under its own anathema of 1983, of if I stated that ROCOR's current position is a total rejection of its historical past?  I suggest that you would, but my remark is no different than your blanket statement that the Holy Transfiguration Monastery has &amp;quot;narrow-minded and incorrect views&amp;quot;, except that I would argue that my statement would be true.  If the statement about Patriarch Alexei's KGB past is inappropriate for the ROCOR page, so is the discussion about Holy Transfiguration Monastery.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::I will respond to your additional comments at a later time.  You may wish to check out yesterday's Wall Street Journal (December 18, 2007), which ran another article about the MP's ties to the KGB. (Unsigned comments by [[User:Samson1957|Samson1957]])&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Once again, [[User:Samson1957|Samson1957]], you need to read the Style Manual... learn how to sign your comments and indent them yourself.  Then you need to read the [[MCB]] section. Then, let's talk. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 03:32, December 20, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::Initially I note that you removed the accussation of sexual scadal and the Greek Archdiocese.  I take that as an admission from you that you have no support for that accusation.  As you response to my last comment, was to my indenting skills, I take it that you have little to say about that as well.  As such, I believe that your classification of HTM as holding &amp;quot;narrow-minded and incorrect views&amp;quot;, is not neutral.  Indeed, the classification invites debate.  Also, if you wish to comment regarding HTM, why do so on the ROCOR page.  You yourself, stated that the comment regarding Patriarch Alexei's KGB past shoulc not be on the ROCOR page, even though he is now ROCOR's chief hierarch.  Why then are comments regarding HOCNA and HTM, which have not been affiliated with ROCOR for over 20 years, relevant at all on ROCOR's page?  The comment about the Patriarch was front page news, whereas the former relationship with HTM seems at best a footnote of history.  You have not responded to my last post to you at all, and I again re-new my request that you refrain from posting your view of history on what should be a neutral page.  In addition, I believe it inappropriate to have reference to HTM, on the ROCOR page.  As stated above, it is more relevant to discuss the applicability of the Anathema of 1983, Metropolitan Philaret's sorrowful epistles, etc.  I await you response with bated breath...hoping that I have indented my comment to your satisfaction.&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Samson1957|Samson1957]] 12:24, December 20, 2007 (PST)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/Talk:Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia</id>
		<title>Talk:Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Talk:Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia"/>
				<updated>2007-12-20T20:19:38Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* Undid numerous Agenda driven edits */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;I'm not sure how the Monks of HTM being &amp;quot;English speakers&amp;quot; is germane to becoming responsible for communication and publications. Did they become responsible for '''English language''' material? If so, the article should reflect that. If there is some other link, that should be noted. Otherwise, the clause about them being speakers of English is irrelevant, I think, and should be omitted.&lt;br /&gt;
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Many thanks to the anonymous editor who helped with this article. You should consider getting an account so we know whom to thank next time. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 13:46, 16 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:The anonymous editor is a monastic friend of mine and something of an expert on ROCOR history.  I asked him to help with the article.&lt;br /&gt;
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:I think the issue regarding English language stuff is because the ROCOR bishops of the time were mainly in the US but largely not very good with English.  --[[User:ASDamick|Rdr. Andrew]] 19:34, 16 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I could tell he was an expert. Very helpful. Please thank him for us. And thanks for the clarification. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 15:14, 17 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;Sources close to the synod&amp;quot; ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the &amp;quot;Rapprochement&amp;quot; section, recent edits were made with statements based on &amp;quot;sources&amp;quot; close to the synod.  Unless these sources can be cited, it's really not much more than rumor.  If there's no one on record as saying something, it makes it quite hard to justify inclusion of such material.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;blue&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;&amp;lt;i&amp;gt;Dcn. Andrew&amp;lt;/i&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[Special:Randompage|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;blue&amp;quot;&amp;gt;random&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 18:04, May 26, 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Rapprochement with Moscow ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I suspect that this section will need a major revision/rewrite once ROCOR and Moscow repair their communion, which is slated to take place on May 17, 2006 in Moscow. The Rapprochement section here could be rewritten as a closed narrative as opposed to an ongoing news event. Certainly there will be a bit more news surrounding the event and the ongoing relations between the two, but as the act of canonical communion becomes a reality and is enacted, I suspect that much on this page will have to be rewritten. What do you all think? {{unsigned|Maximos}}&lt;br /&gt;
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: Certainly!  Articles should be as up to date as possible.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 10:48, December 29, 2006 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Population ==&lt;br /&gt;
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A recent edit quoted a [http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1622544,00.html Time Magazine] article, which estimates the ROCOR population at 500k to 1.5m.  Since the ROCOR has roughly 400 parishes worldwide, this would put the average parish size at 1250 to 3750.  That doesn't seem even remotely realistic to me.&lt;br /&gt;
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By contrast, a recent [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=interview&amp;amp;div=51 interview] with Archpriest Alexander Lebedev puts the figure at 60k to 100k (an average of 150 to 250 per parish).  It seems to me that an official spokesman for the ROCOR being directly interviewed is more to be believed than Time Magazine.&lt;br /&gt;
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What do you think?  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:43, May 30, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== 60,000 to 100,000 ?? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This is an OCA created number.  The Russian Church Abroad has always been larger than the OCA.  For example, there are 50,000 faithful in New York alone!  The closer number is 1.35 million worldwide.  The Church lost over 150,000 members in Russia and South America because of its reunion with the Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
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Get it right. {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
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: The 60k to 100k figure comes from [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=interview&amp;amp;div=51 an interview with ROCOR spokesman Fr. Alexander Lebedev].  I have my doubts that he gets his jurisdiction's statistics from the OCA.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:50, May 30, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Fr. Alexander is a good man, but, he is not the official spokesman the Church.  He just speaks alot!  :) {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Just a note on this -- to me, when dealing with something as concrete as numbers, I would probably trust a secular demographer more than an official spokesman of any church. I don't think &amp;quot;official&amp;quot; really matters here, except perrhaps in terms of access to information. — [[User:FrJohn|&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;FrJohn&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;section=new talk])&lt;br /&gt;
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::I think the discrepency is that Fr. Alexander was talking about the numbers of people who regularly go to Church, and the larger numbers include people who come to Church when they are hatched, matched, and dispatched.  Perhaps some standard should be used that is applied to all jurisdictions, because I think most of them go with the higher numbers which include people who have loose affiliations with the Church.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 03:49, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Fr. John W., I think these are awfully sane words. I know the OCA has at least two rough sets of statistics, wildly different, based on whether one is talking about the larger enthic-affiiliated community, or actually church-goers. Maybe we should put a note in the style manual about this. Personally, I'd prefer the actual church-goer number, but I don't mind if both are listed and identified. Of course, all of these are approximate. — [[User:FrJohn|&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;FrJohn&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;section=new talk])&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: I think nailing this down in the style manual would be a great idea. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 17:32, June 6, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::It should also be pointed out that Fr. Alexander used the words &amp;quot;possibly&amp;quot; which would indicate he was giving a guesstimate.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 03:51, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Fr. John, do you know of an officially published ROCOR estimate concerning itself?  The problem here is having something reliable to cite.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 05:32, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: I'm trying to see what I can come up with.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 05:24, June 3, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::I have not been able to find anything as of yet from ROCOR documents... but if you look at Bishop Kallistos' &amp;quot;The Orthodox Church&amp;quot;, the 1994 edition, he puts the number at &amp;quot;perhaps 150,000&amp;quot;. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 17:32, June 6, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== You logic is flawed Fr. Andrei ==&lt;br /&gt;
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If you use that average system, then the OCA would only have 85,000 people??  And the Antiochians only 35,000.  I know of Antiochian parishes that have only 4 people.  Your logic is severely flawed.  The ROCOR lists &amp;quot;officially&amp;quot; 500,000 people.  The Church does not list the total number of parishes in Russia and the Ukraine (This may change due to the union.)  But, it is still hesitant because of Moscow's demands over these parishes which number, nearly 775.  Yes, that's right, 775!!!  Not all are listed.  Only 20 are listed.  But in truth the total number is closer to 1.35 million.&lt;br /&gt;
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I have seen these parishes with my own eyes.  &lt;br /&gt;
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The 1.5 million is a number supplied from the Russian government itself.  The Church Abroad has always kept these numbers low to protect themselves. &lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.dioceseinfo.org/DOCUMENTS/Diocese/commission2.html&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.neobyzantine.org/blog/viewtopic.php?p=3793&lt;br /&gt;
http://templars.wordpress.com/2007/05/21/putins-reunited-russian-church/&lt;br /&gt;
http://action-ukraine-report.blogspot.com/2007/05/aur844-may-18-enduring-crisis-in.html&lt;br /&gt;
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The ROCOR Church in Brooklyn was established to care for 11,000 Russians in Brooklyn who expressed interest in starting a church closer to where they live.  Several thousand were present for Pascha last year.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Cathedral in San Francisco has several thousand as well, these are two parishes (you do the math.) {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
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: *shrug*  I have no idea what you've seen, nor who you are (though I do have some reason to doubt that you've seen all 400 or 775 of ROCOR's parishes).  All I know is that the man whom the ROCOR appointed as the secretary of the commission which negotiated the union with the MP said one thing, and an anonymous editor on this wiki is saying another.  Fr. Alexander has much more credibility on this matter, methinks.&lt;br /&gt;
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: Even Fr. Alexey Young's 1993 history of the ROCOR says that &amp;quot;the figure probably does not exceed 50,000 worldwide&amp;quot; (p. 108).  I find it hard to believe that the ROCOR has grown by 1,450,000 people in the 12 years since it was published.&lt;br /&gt;
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: The links you post here are interesting, but none are even statements from anyone in the ROCOR.  We need verifiable, published statements by authoritative figures for stuff like this, not estimates in news sources, some of which are entirely anonymous.  &lt;br /&gt;
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: By the way, if you're a Greek, why did you change my name to &amp;quot;Fr. '''Andrei'''&amp;quot;?  Heheh.  ;)  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 19:24, May 30, 2007 (PDT) (a.k.a. Πάτερ Ανδρέας)&lt;br /&gt;
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Sorry its a bad habit.  I have many friends in the Russian Church and the Church Abroad, every parish seems to have an &amp;quot;Andrei,&amp;quot;  it can throw you off. The proper spelling according to the Greek/English variant is &amp;quot;Ohndreas.&amp;quot;  Of course &amp;quot;Andreas&amp;quot; is a more popular spelling, but linguistically inaccurate.  I had a Greek friend who would call himself &amp;quot;Andrei&amp;quot; and would argue with me relentlessly that his name was in fact Greek, I explained it was a &amp;quot;form&amp;quot; of the original Greek.  Being a Professor of Linguistics in Ancient Greek, I think I would know better. &lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Slava|Slava]] 10:54, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Undid numerous Agenda driven edits ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I undid numerous agenda driven edits by Samson1957.  Orthodoxwiki is not a forum for Old Calendarists schismatics to promote their schismatic agenda.  Read the policies of this web site. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 20:12, December 11, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Dear Fr. John:&lt;br /&gt;
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:What is amazing is that an unsourced accusation is permitted to stand, and my edits regarding the patriarch, which are sourced are removed. His background, given ROCOR prior anti-Soviet stance, is very relevant. ROCOR's prior affiliation some 20 years ago with Holy Transfiguration Monastery does not seem relevant, except to disparage the reputation of HOCNA. Again, there is no source for the allegation that they left the Greek Archdiocese due to sexual scandal. &lt;br /&gt;
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:The edits that you seem to run away from, seem to express you desire to promote your own agenda, that is to whitewash and re-write ROCOR's history.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
:The edit regarding Bishop Agafangel, and the 100 priests that left with him, has also been removed. Why? How is that not relevant, if Fr. John insists on listing him as a suspended Bishop? &lt;br /&gt;
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  &lt;br /&gt;
:I find it inappropriate for you to make accusations which you do not support with a mainstrean source, which, I may add, seems to contradict the rules of this site.  You are intent on repeating accusations against Holy Transfiguration Monastery. If the accusations were true, where are the lawsuits that would inevitably follow in this litigious society.  When ROCOR had its own issues with pedaphilia, in Blanco Texas, they were sued.  Is ROCOR pedaphilia scandal and their law suit settlement relevant to the ROCOR article?  I do not think so, so I did not add it, but perhaps it should be added, together with copies of the deposition of what happened as a source? &lt;br /&gt;
:I copy below my note to the moderator, who seems to agree with your position that Alexei's past as a KGB agent, which I sourced to the front page Wall Street Journal article of July 17, 2007 is not relevant.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Would it be relevant to add after Bishop Peter, that he was uncanonically elevated without an investigation, whe a sub deacon objected to his elevation and spoke ANAXIOUS? The canons are clear on this, yet if I add that comment, it seems you would &amp;quot;lock me out&amp;quot; of use. Would it be relevant that Bishop Michael was anatamatized by Metropolitan Vitaly?, or would that be edited out as well? &lt;br /&gt;
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:My purpose here is simply for people to be aware of facts, whereas Fr. John's purpose, and now it seems yours as well, is to tell only your version of events, which describe as &amp;quot;mainstream&amp;quot;. I did not realize that truth or accusation was governed by consensus. &lt;br /&gt;
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:Unless Fr. John can provide support for his accusations, such as a mainstream newspaper, I ask that his inflamatory, and self serving accusations regarding other jurisdictions be removed. &lt;br /&gt;
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:Retrieved from &amp;quot;http://orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:Samson1957&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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::I can provide you with documentation to support what I have said about HTM... which accusations in particular would you like documentation for?  As for the absence of lawsuits connected with HTM, there were no accusations of pedophilia that I am aware of.  All the 20 monks that accused Panteleimon were adults. As for the claim that Agafangel has 100 parishes, you provided no source for that assertion.  It seems like a rather unlikely round number to me. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 20:28, December 13, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Dear Fr. John:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I note that you do not comment on Alexei's KGB affiliation, which I take as you acceptance of that fact.  As such, should it not be included in the text? or is the truth not palatable?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::With regard to your accusations against HTM, yes please show me one iota of evidence that HTM left the Greek Archdiocese due to a sexual scandal.  If you cannot produce it, please remove the reference.  With regard to lawsuits, I did not suggest that pedaphilia was ever alleged at HTM, I suggested that sexual assault would have been met by a lawsuit.  Pedaphilia lawsuits have only been brought against ROCOR for the Blanco situation.  Since you seem intent on posting inflamatory accusations about HTM, please also reference the ROCOR scandals in Blanco, and the lack of investigation ROCOR undertook before accepting these &amp;quot;priests&amp;quot;.  Why is it that you do not argue the points raised by HTM, with regard to canons or ecclesiology?  Instead you choose to simply disparage HTM, based upon unproven accusations.  Is HTM such a thorn in your side that you seem intent on including them in your article about ROCOR?  If their affiliation with ROCOR is so important to your article, please identify what their positions were, that you believe were so out of line with ROCORs.  Please do so with proper cites.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::With regard to Bishop Agafangel, you are right, 100 is a round number.  Last count was 87.  Would you like me to post the addresses and contact information for these parishes, with my edit?  This would save time for anyone who wished to go to those parishes.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I also not that you make no comment regarding Bishop Peter's elevation, or Metropolitan's anathema of Bishop Michael.  Is that not relevant to an objective history of ROCOR?&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I look forward to your response.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Nat&lt;br /&gt;
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::::As for the allegations against Patriarch Alexei, no, I do not believe them to be true.  You apparently do not understand that a wiki is not a debate forum, and your comments about Patriarch Alexei are completely out of place in this article.  In the article about Patriarch Alexei it would not be inappropriate to reference them, but they would have to presented as accusations, rather than facts, since they are in fact only accusations.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::As for HTM, the quote you are reference was in this article long before I began editing in OrthodoxWiki.  I would not have phrased it the way that it is.  My understanding is that the Greek Archdiocese was investigating charges against HTM, when they left them and came to ROCOR.  I don't believe that this was the result of a public scandal at that time.  But regardless, that is clearly why they left ROCOR.  I do address HTM's arguments.  See [http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/hocna_facts.htm HOCNA Facts]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::As for the Blanco Scandal, ROCOR never tried to cover it up, and Blanco never tried to justify leaving ROCOR on the basis of ROCOR being modernists and Ecumenists.  HTM does try to make false claims about why they left, and has tried to cover up the facts of the matter.  &lt;br /&gt;
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::::As for Agafangel's parishes, you have not presented any reliable sources for your claims for his numbers.  As for Bishop Peter's elevation, you cannot cite any canons to justify your assertion that the voice of one objector to the consecration of a bishop invalidates his consecration.  When a bishop-elect is preparing to be consecrated, there are plenty of opportunities for objectors to raise any issues that they wish.  Criticisms of bishop Peter were presented, our bishops considered them, and they did not accept them -- perhaps on the basis of the Scriptures and the Canons which state that we should not receive an accusation against a presbyter except at the testimony of two or three witnesses. There is no right for an individual to veto the bishops at the last moment, when the prayers of consecration have already taken place. That is nonsense.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::As for the retired Metropolitans alleged anathematizing of Bishop Michael, it is irrelevant because #1, retired bishops don't have such authority, and #2, even active bishops do not have the authority to anathematize a fellow bishop on their own, without any consultation of anyone else.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::If you intend to be a constructive editor here, I suggest you read the [[MCB]] and abide by it.  You also need to learn how to indent your comments, and sign your name to your comments. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 21:16, December 14, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You state that this is not a debate forum, however, that is exactly what you are trying to do.  Why is Holy Transfiguration Monastery even relevant to an article on ROCOR.  You state that the edit regarding Patriarch Alexei, and his KGB past which was sourced, was not appropriate, yet an entire heading on the ROCOR page is dedicated to disparaging a different jurisdiction.  If a heading is appropriate regarding Holy Transfiguration, how about a heading regarding the Metropolia/OCA, and how ROCOR issued an official protocol breaking communion with them.  How about a heading identifying all the official protocols ROCOR issued condemning the MP.  How about a heading explaining Metropolitan Philaret's Sorrowful Epistles, as they seem now also to apply to ROCOR.  How about a heading concerning the Anathema of 1983, and how it seemingly applies not to ROCOR, and as a result, ROCOR was obliged to essentially &amp;quot;void&amp;quot; the Anathema of 1983.  All these seem to deal directly with ROCOR, while HOCNA's prior association with ROCOR is at best a footnote.  However, you bias is clear, when you call HOCNA's views &amp;quot;narrow-minded and incorrect views &amp;quot;.  Would you un-edit me, if I said, some people believe that ROCOR has fallen under its own anathema of 1983, of if I stated that ROCOR's current position is a total rejection of its historical past?  I suggest that you would, but my remark is no different than your blanket statement that the Holy Transfiguration Monastery has &amp;quot;narrow-minded and incorrect views&amp;quot;, except that I would argue that my statement would be true.  If the statement about Patriarch Alexei's KGB past is inappropriate for the ROCOR page, so is the discussion about Holy Transfiguration Monastery.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::I will respond to your additional comments at a later time.  You may wish to check out yesterday's Wall Street Journal (December 18, 2007), which ran another article about the MP's ties to the KGB. (Unsigned comments by [[User:Samson1957|Samson1957]])&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Once again, [[User:Samson1957|Samson1957]], you need to read the Style Manual... learn how to sign your comments and indent them yourself.  Then you need to read the [[MCB]] section. Then, let's talk. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 03:32, December 20, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::Initially I note that you removed the accussation of sexual scadal and the Greek Archdiocese.  I take that as an admission from you that you have no support for that accusation.  As you response to my last comment, was to my indenting skills, I take it that you have little to say about that as well.  As such, I believe that your classification of HTM as holding &amp;quot;narrow-minded and incorrect views&amp;quot;, is not neutral.  Indeed, the classification invites debate.  Also, if you wish to comment regarding HTM, why do so on the ROCOR page.  You yourself, stated that the comment regarding Patriarch Alexei's KGB past shoulc not be on the ROCOR page, even though he is now ROCOR's chief hierarch.  Why then are comments regarding HOCNA and HTM, which have not been affiliated with ROCOR for over 20 years, relevant at all on ROCOR's page?  The comment about the Patriarch was front page news, whereas the former relationship with HTM seems at best a footnote of history.  You have not responded to my last post to you at all, and I again re-new my request that you refrain from posting your view of history on what should be a neutral page.  In addition, I believe it inappropriate to have reference to HTM, on the ROCOR page.  As stated above, it is more relevant to discuss the applicability of the Anathema of 1983, Metropolitan Philaret's sorrowful epistles, etc.  I await you response with bated breath...hoping that I have indented my comment to your satisfaction.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/Talk:Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia</id>
		<title>Talk:Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Talk:Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia"/>
				<updated>2007-12-20T19:52:41Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* Undid numerous Agenda driven edits */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;I'm not sure how the Monks of HTM being &amp;quot;English speakers&amp;quot; is germane to becoming responsible for communication and publications. Did they become responsible for '''English language''' material? If so, the article should reflect that. If there is some other link, that should be noted. Otherwise, the clause about them being speakers of English is irrelevant, I think, and should be omitted.&lt;br /&gt;
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Many thanks to the anonymous editor who helped with this article. You should consider getting an account so we know whom to thank next time. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 13:46, 16 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:The anonymous editor is a monastic friend of mine and something of an expert on ROCOR history.  I asked him to help with the article.&lt;br /&gt;
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:I think the issue regarding English language stuff is because the ROCOR bishops of the time were mainly in the US but largely not very good with English.  --[[User:ASDamick|Rdr. Andrew]] 19:34, 16 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I could tell he was an expert. Very helpful. Please thank him for us. And thanks for the clarification. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 15:14, 17 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;Sources close to the synod&amp;quot; ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the &amp;quot;Rapprochement&amp;quot; section, recent edits were made with statements based on &amp;quot;sources&amp;quot; close to the synod.  Unless these sources can be cited, it's really not much more than rumor.  If there's no one on record as saying something, it makes it quite hard to justify inclusion of such material.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;blue&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;&amp;lt;i&amp;gt;Dcn. Andrew&amp;lt;/i&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[Special:Randompage|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;blue&amp;quot;&amp;gt;random&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 18:04, May 26, 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Rapprochement with Moscow ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I suspect that this section will need a major revision/rewrite once ROCOR and Moscow repair their communion, which is slated to take place on May 17, 2006 in Moscow. The Rapprochement section here could be rewritten as a closed narrative as opposed to an ongoing news event. Certainly there will be a bit more news surrounding the event and the ongoing relations between the two, but as the act of canonical communion becomes a reality and is enacted, I suspect that much on this page will have to be rewritten. What do you all think? {{unsigned|Maximos}}&lt;br /&gt;
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: Certainly!  Articles should be as up to date as possible.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 10:48, December 29, 2006 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Population ==&lt;br /&gt;
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A recent edit quoted a [http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1622544,00.html Time Magazine] article, which estimates the ROCOR population at 500k to 1.5m.  Since the ROCOR has roughly 400 parishes worldwide, this would put the average parish size at 1250 to 3750.  That doesn't seem even remotely realistic to me.&lt;br /&gt;
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By contrast, a recent [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=interview&amp;amp;div=51 interview] with Archpriest Alexander Lebedev puts the figure at 60k to 100k (an average of 150 to 250 per parish).  It seems to me that an official spokesman for the ROCOR being directly interviewed is more to be believed than Time Magazine.&lt;br /&gt;
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What do you think?  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:43, May 30, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== 60,000 to 100,000 ?? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This is an OCA created number.  The Russian Church Abroad has always been larger than the OCA.  For example, there are 50,000 faithful in New York alone!  The closer number is 1.35 million worldwide.  The Church lost over 150,000 members in Russia and South America because of its reunion with the Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
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Get it right. {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
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: The 60k to 100k figure comes from [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=interview&amp;amp;div=51 an interview with ROCOR spokesman Fr. Alexander Lebedev].  I have my doubts that he gets his jurisdiction's statistics from the OCA.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:50, May 30, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Fr. Alexander is a good man, but, he is not the official spokesman the Church.  He just speaks alot!  :) {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Just a note on this -- to me, when dealing with something as concrete as numbers, I would probably trust a secular demographer more than an official spokesman of any church. I don't think &amp;quot;official&amp;quot; really matters here, except perrhaps in terms of access to information. — [[User:FrJohn|&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;FrJohn&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;section=new talk])&lt;br /&gt;
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::I think the discrepency is that Fr. Alexander was talking about the numbers of people who regularly go to Church, and the larger numbers include people who come to Church when they are hatched, matched, and dispatched.  Perhaps some standard should be used that is applied to all jurisdictions, because I think most of them go with the higher numbers which include people who have loose affiliations with the Church.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 03:49, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Fr. John W., I think these are awfully sane words. I know the OCA has at least two rough sets of statistics, wildly different, based on whether one is talking about the larger enthic-affiiliated community, or actually church-goers. Maybe we should put a note in the style manual about this. Personally, I'd prefer the actual church-goer number, but I don't mind if both are listed and identified. Of course, all of these are approximate. — [[User:FrJohn|&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;FrJohn&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;section=new talk])&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: I think nailing this down in the style manual would be a great idea. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 17:32, June 6, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::It should also be pointed out that Fr. Alexander used the words &amp;quot;possibly&amp;quot; which would indicate he was giving a guesstimate.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 03:51, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Fr. John, do you know of an officially published ROCOR estimate concerning itself?  The problem here is having something reliable to cite.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 05:32, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: I'm trying to see what I can come up with.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 05:24, June 3, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::I have not been able to find anything as of yet from ROCOR documents... but if you look at Bishop Kallistos' &amp;quot;The Orthodox Church&amp;quot;, the 1994 edition, he puts the number at &amp;quot;perhaps 150,000&amp;quot;. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 17:32, June 6, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== You logic is flawed Fr. Andrei ==&lt;br /&gt;
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If you use that average system, then the OCA would only have 85,000 people??  And the Antiochians only 35,000.  I know of Antiochian parishes that have only 4 people.  Your logic is severely flawed.  The ROCOR lists &amp;quot;officially&amp;quot; 500,000 people.  The Church does not list the total number of parishes in Russia and the Ukraine (This may change due to the union.)  But, it is still hesitant because of Moscow's demands over these parishes which number, nearly 775.  Yes, that's right, 775!!!  Not all are listed.  Only 20 are listed.  But in truth the total number is closer to 1.35 million.&lt;br /&gt;
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I have seen these parishes with my own eyes.  &lt;br /&gt;
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The 1.5 million is a number supplied from the Russian government itself.  The Church Abroad has always kept these numbers low to protect themselves. &lt;br /&gt;
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http://www.dioceseinfo.org/DOCUMENTS/Diocese/commission2.html&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.neobyzantine.org/blog/viewtopic.php?p=3793&lt;br /&gt;
http://templars.wordpress.com/2007/05/21/putins-reunited-russian-church/&lt;br /&gt;
http://action-ukraine-report.blogspot.com/2007/05/aur844-may-18-enduring-crisis-in.html&lt;br /&gt;
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The ROCOR Church in Brooklyn was established to care for 11,000 Russians in Brooklyn who expressed interest in starting a church closer to where they live.  Several thousand were present for Pascha last year.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Cathedral in San Francisco has several thousand as well, these are two parishes (you do the math.) {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
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: *shrug*  I have no idea what you've seen, nor who you are (though I do have some reason to doubt that you've seen all 400 or 775 of ROCOR's parishes).  All I know is that the man whom the ROCOR appointed as the secretary of the commission which negotiated the union with the MP said one thing, and an anonymous editor on this wiki is saying another.  Fr. Alexander has much more credibility on this matter, methinks.&lt;br /&gt;
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: Even Fr. Alexey Young's 1993 history of the ROCOR says that &amp;quot;the figure probably does not exceed 50,000 worldwide&amp;quot; (p. 108).  I find it hard to believe that the ROCOR has grown by 1,450,000 people in the 12 years since it was published.&lt;br /&gt;
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: The links you post here are interesting, but none are even statements from anyone in the ROCOR.  We need verifiable, published statements by authoritative figures for stuff like this, not estimates in news sources, some of which are entirely anonymous.  &lt;br /&gt;
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: By the way, if you're a Greek, why did you change my name to &amp;quot;Fr. '''Andrei'''&amp;quot;?  Heheh.  ;)  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 19:24, May 30, 2007 (PDT) (a.k.a. Πάτερ Ανδρέας)&lt;br /&gt;
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Sorry its a bad habit.  I have many friends in the Russian Church and the Church Abroad, every parish seems to have an &amp;quot;Andrei,&amp;quot;  it can throw you off. The proper spelling according to the Greek/English variant is &amp;quot;Ohndreas.&amp;quot;  Of course &amp;quot;Andreas&amp;quot; is a more popular spelling, but linguistically inaccurate.  I had a Greek friend who would call himself &amp;quot;Andrei&amp;quot; and would argue with me relentlessly that his name was in fact Greek, I explained it was a &amp;quot;form&amp;quot; of the original Greek.  Being a Professor of Linguistics in Ancient Greek, I think I would know better. &lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Slava|Slava]] 10:54, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Undid numerous Agenda driven edits ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I undid numerous agenda driven edits by Samson1957.  Orthodoxwiki is not a forum for Old Calendarists schismatics to promote their schismatic agenda.  Read the policies of this web site. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 20:12, December 11, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Dear Fr. John:&lt;br /&gt;
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:What is amazing is that an unsourced accusation is permitted to stand, and my edits regarding the patriarch, which are sourced are removed. His background, given ROCOR prior anti-Soviet stance, is very relevant. ROCOR's prior affiliation some 20 years ago with Holy Transfiguration Monastery does not seem relevant, except to disparage the reputation of HOCNA. Again, there is no source for the allegation that they left the Greek Archdiocese due to sexual scandal. &lt;br /&gt;
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:The edits that you seem to run away from, seem to express you desire to promote your own agenda, that is to whitewash and re-write ROCOR's history.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
:The edit regarding Bishop Agafangel, and the 100 priests that left with him, has also been removed. Why? How is that not relevant, if Fr. John insists on listing him as a suspended Bishop? &lt;br /&gt;
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  &lt;br /&gt;
:I find it inappropriate for you to make accusations which you do not support with a mainstrean source, which, I may add, seems to contradict the rules of this site.  You are intent on repeating accusations against Holy Transfiguration Monastery. If the accusations were true, where are the lawsuits that would inevitably follow in this litigious society.  When ROCOR had its own issues with pedaphilia, in Blanco Texas, they were sued.  Is ROCOR pedaphilia scandal and their law suit settlement relevant to the ROCOR article?  I do not think so, so I did not add it, but perhaps it should be added, together with copies of the deposition of what happened as a source? &lt;br /&gt;
:I copy below my note to the moderator, who seems to agree with your position that Alexei's past as a KGB agent, which I sourced to the front page Wall Street Journal article of July 17, 2007 is not relevant.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Would it be relevant to add after Bishop Peter, that he was uncanonically elevated without an investigation, whe a sub deacon objected to his elevation and spoke ANAXIOUS? The canons are clear on this, yet if I add that comment, it seems you would &amp;quot;lock me out&amp;quot; of use. Would it be relevant that Bishop Michael was anatamatized by Metropolitan Vitaly?, or would that be edited out as well? &lt;br /&gt;
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:My purpose here is simply for people to be aware of facts, whereas Fr. John's purpose, and now it seems yours as well, is to tell only your version of events, which describe as &amp;quot;mainstream&amp;quot;. I did not realize that truth or accusation was governed by consensus. &lt;br /&gt;
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:Unless Fr. John can provide support for his accusations, such as a mainstream newspaper, I ask that his inflamatory, and self serving accusations regarding other jurisdictions be removed. &lt;br /&gt;
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:Retrieved from &amp;quot;http://orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:Samson1957&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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::I can provide you with documentation to support what I have said about HTM... which accusations in particular would you like documentation for?  As for the absence of lawsuits connected with HTM, there were no accusations of pedophilia that I am aware of.  All the 20 monks that accused Panteleimon were adults. As for the claim that Agafangel has 100 parishes, you provided no source for that assertion.  It seems like a rather unlikely round number to me. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 20:28, December 13, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Dear Fr. John:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I note that you do not comment on Alexei's KGB affiliation, which I take as you acceptance of that fact.  As such, should it not be included in the text? or is the truth not palatable?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::With regard to your accusations against HTM, yes please show me one iota of evidence that HTM left the Greek Archdiocese due to a sexual scandal.  If you cannot produce it, please remove the reference.  With regard to lawsuits, I did not suggest that pedaphilia was ever alleged at HTM, I suggested that sexual assault would have been met by a lawsuit.  Pedaphilia lawsuits have only been brought against ROCOR for the Blanco situation.  Since you seem intent on posting inflamatory accusations about HTM, please also reference the ROCOR scandals in Blanco, and the lack of investigation ROCOR undertook before accepting these &amp;quot;priests&amp;quot;.  Why is it that you do not argue the points raised by HTM, with regard to canons or ecclesiology?  Instead you choose to simply disparage HTM, based upon unproven accusations.  Is HTM such a thorn in your side that you seem intent on including them in your article about ROCOR?  If their affiliation with ROCOR is so important to your article, please identify what their positions were, that you believe were so out of line with ROCORs.  Please do so with proper cites.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::With regard to Bishop Agafangel, you are right, 100 is a round number.  Last count was 87.  Would you like me to post the addresses and contact information for these parishes, with my edit?  This would save time for anyone who wished to go to those parishes.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I also not that you make no comment regarding Bishop Peter's elevation, or Metropolitan's anathema of Bishop Michael.  Is that not relevant to an objective history of ROCOR?&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I look forward to your response.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Nat&lt;br /&gt;
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::::As for the allegations against Patriarch Alexei, no, I do not believe them to be true.  You apparently do not understand that a wiki is not a debate forum, and your comments about Patriarch Alexei are completely out of place in this article.  In the article about Patriarch Alexei it would not be inappropriate to reference them, but they would have to presented as accusations, rather than facts, since they are in fact only accusations.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::As for HTM, the quote you are reference was in this article long before I began editing in OrthodoxWiki.  I would not have phrased it the way that it is.  My understanding is that the Greek Archdiocese was investigating charges against HTM, when they left them and came to ROCOR.  I don't believe that this was the result of a public scandal at that time.  But regardless, that is clearly why they left ROCOR.  I do address HTM's arguments.  See [http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/hocna_facts.htm HOCNA Facts]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::As for the Blanco Scandal, ROCOR never tried to cover it up, and Blanco never tried to justify leaving ROCOR on the basis of ROCOR being modernists and Ecumenists.  HTM does try to make false claims about why they left, and has tried to cover up the facts of the matter.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::As for Agafangel's parishes, you have not presented any reliable sources for your claims for his numbers.  As for Bishop Peter's elevation, you cannot cite any canons to justify your assertion that the voice of one objector to the consecration of a bishop invalidates his consecration.  When a bishop-elect is preparing to be consecrated, there are plenty of opportunities for objectors to raise any issues that they wish.  Criticisms of bishop Peter were presented, our bishops considered them, and they did not accept them -- perhaps on the basis of the Scriptures and the Canons which state that we should not receive an accusation against a presbyter except at the testimony of two or three witnesses. There is no right for an individual to veto the bishops at the last moment, when the prayers of consecration have already taken place. That is nonsense.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::As for the retired Metropolitans alleged anathematizing of Bishop Michael, it is irrelevant because #1, retired bishops don't have such authority, and #2, even active bishops do not have the authority to anathematize a fellow bishop on their own, without any consultation of anyone else.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::If you intend to be a constructive editor here, I suggest you read the [[MCB]] and abide by it.  You also need to learn how to indent your comments, and sign your name to your comments. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 21:16, December 14, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You state that this is not a debate forum, however, that is exactly what you are trying to do.  Why is Holy Transfiguration Monastery even relevant to an article on ROCOR.  You state that the edit regarding Patriarch Alexei, and his KGB past which was sourced, was not appropriate, yet an entire heading on the ROCOR page is dedicated to disparaging a different jurisdiction.  If a heading is appropriate regarding Holy Transfiguration, how about a heading regarding the Metropolia/OCA, and how ROCOR issued an official protocol breaking communion with them.  How about a heading identifying all the official protocols ROCOR issued condemning the MP.  How about a heading explaining Metropolitan Philaret's Sorrowful Epistles, as they seem now also to apply to ROCOR.  How about a heading concerning the Anathema of 1983, and how it seemingly applies not to ROCOR, and as a result, ROCOR was obliged to essentially &amp;quot;void&amp;quot; the Anathema of 1983.  All these seem to deal directly with ROCOR, while HOCNA's prior association with ROCOR is at best a footnote.  However, you bias is clear, when you call HOCNA's views &amp;quot;narrow-minded and incorrect views &amp;quot;.  Would you un-edit me, if I said, some people believe that ROCOR has fallen under its own anathema of 1983, of if I stated that ROCOR's current position is a total rejection of its historical past?  I suggest that you would, but my remark is no different than your blanket statement that the Holy Transfiguration Monastery has &amp;quot;narrow-minded and incorrect views&amp;quot;, except that I would argue that my statement would be true.  If the statement about Patriarch Alexei's KGB past is inappropriate for the ROCOR page, so is the discussion about Holy Transfiguration Monastery.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::I will respond to your additional comments at a later time.  You may wish to check out yesterday's Wall Street Journal (December 18, 2007), which ran another article about the MP's ties to the KGB. (Unsigned comments by [[User:Samson1957|Samson1957]])&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Once again, [[User:Samson1957|Samson1957]], you need to read the Style Manual... learn how to sign your comments and indent them yourself.  Then you need to read the [[MCB]] section. Then, let's talk. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 03:32, December 20, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::Initially I note that you removed the accussation of sexual scadal and the Greek Archdiocese.  I take that as an admission from you that you have no support for that accusation.  As you response to my last comment, was to my indenting skills, I take it that you have little to say about that as well.  As such, I believe that your classification of HTM as holding &amp;quot;narrow-minded and incorrect views&amp;quot;, is not neutral.  Indeed, the classification invites debate.  Also, if you wish to comment regarding HTM, why do so on the ROCOR page.  You yourself, stated that the comment regarding Patriarch Alexei's KGB past shoulc not be on the ROCOR page, even though he is now ROCOR's chief hierarch.  Why then are comments regarding HOCNA and HTM, which have not been affiliated with ROCOR for over 20 years, relevant at all on ROCOR's page?  The comment about the Patriarch was front page news, whereas the former relationship with HTM seems at best a footnote of history.  You have not responded to my last post to you at all, and I again re-new my request that you refrain from posting your view of history on what should be a neutral page.  In addition, I believe it inappropriate to have reference to HTM, on the ROCOR page.  As stated above, it is more relevant to discuss the applicability of the Anathema of 1983, Metropolitan Philaret's sorrowful epistles, etc.  I await you response with baited breath...hoping that I have indented my comment to your satisfaction.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/Talk:Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia</id>
		<title>Talk:Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Talk:Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia"/>
				<updated>2007-12-20T00:24:57Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* Undid numerous Agenda driven edits */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;I'm not sure how the Monks of HTM being &amp;quot;English speakers&amp;quot; is germane to becoming responsible for communication and publications. Did they become responsible for '''English language''' material? If so, the article should reflect that. If there is some other link, that should be noted. Otherwise, the clause about them being speakers of English is irrelevant, I think, and should be omitted.&lt;br /&gt;
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Many thanks to the anonymous editor who helped with this article. You should consider getting an account so we know whom to thank next time. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 13:46, 16 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:The anonymous editor is a monastic friend of mine and something of an expert on ROCOR history.  I asked him to help with the article.&lt;br /&gt;
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:I think the issue regarding English language stuff is because the ROCOR bishops of the time were mainly in the US but largely not very good with English.  --[[User:ASDamick|Rdr. Andrew]] 19:34, 16 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I could tell he was an expert. Very helpful. Please thank him for us. And thanks for the clarification. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 15:14, 17 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;Sources close to the synod&amp;quot; ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the &amp;quot;Rapprochement&amp;quot; section, recent edits were made with statements based on &amp;quot;sources&amp;quot; close to the synod.  Unless these sources can be cited, it's really not much more than rumor.  If there's no one on record as saying something, it makes it quite hard to justify inclusion of such material.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;blue&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;&amp;lt;i&amp;gt;Dcn. Andrew&amp;lt;/i&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[Special:Randompage|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;blue&amp;quot;&amp;gt;random&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 18:04, May 26, 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Rapprochement with Moscow ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I suspect that this section will need a major revision/rewrite once ROCOR and Moscow repair their communion, which is slated to take place on May 17, 2006 in Moscow. The Rapprochement section here could be rewritten as a closed narrative as opposed to an ongoing news event. Certainly there will be a bit more news surrounding the event and the ongoing relations between the two, but as the act of canonical communion becomes a reality and is enacted, I suspect that much on this page will have to be rewritten. What do you all think? {{unsigned|Maximos}}&lt;br /&gt;
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: Certainly!  Articles should be as up to date as possible.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 10:48, December 29, 2006 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Population ==&lt;br /&gt;
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A recent edit quoted a [http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1622544,00.html Time Magazine] article, which estimates the ROCOR population at 500k to 1.5m.  Since the ROCOR has roughly 400 parishes worldwide, this would put the average parish size at 1250 to 3750.  That doesn't seem even remotely realistic to me.&lt;br /&gt;
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By contrast, a recent [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=interview&amp;amp;div=51 interview] with Archpriest Alexander Lebedev puts the figure at 60k to 100k (an average of 150 to 250 per parish).  It seems to me that an official spokesman for the ROCOR being directly interviewed is more to be believed than Time Magazine.&lt;br /&gt;
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What do you think?  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:43, May 30, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== 60,000 to 100,000 ?? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This is an OCA created number.  The Russian Church Abroad has always been larger than the OCA.  For example, there are 50,000 faithful in New York alone!  The closer number is 1.35 million worldwide.  The Church lost over 150,000 members in Russia and South America because of its reunion with the Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
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Get it right. {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
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: The 60k to 100k figure comes from [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=interview&amp;amp;div=51 an interview with ROCOR spokesman Fr. Alexander Lebedev].  I have my doubts that he gets his jurisdiction's statistics from the OCA.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:50, May 30, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Fr. Alexander is a good man, but, he is not the official spokesman the Church.  He just speaks alot!  :) {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Just a note on this -- to me, when dealing with something as concrete as numbers, I would probably trust a secular demographer more than an official spokesman of any church. I don't think &amp;quot;official&amp;quot; really matters here, except perrhaps in terms of access to information. — [[User:FrJohn|&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;FrJohn&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;section=new talk])&lt;br /&gt;
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::I think the discrepency is that Fr. Alexander was talking about the numbers of people who regularly go to Church, and the larger numbers include people who come to Church when they are hatched, matched, and dispatched.  Perhaps some standard should be used that is applied to all jurisdictions, because I think most of them go with the higher numbers which include people who have loose affiliations with the Church.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 03:49, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Fr. John W., I think these are awfully sane words. I know the OCA has at least two rough sets of statistics, wildly different, based on whether one is talking about the larger enthic-affiiliated community, or actually church-goers. Maybe we should put a note in the style manual about this. Personally, I'd prefer the actual church-goer number, but I don't mind if both are listed and identified. Of course, all of these are approximate. — [[User:FrJohn|&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;FrJohn&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;section=new talk])&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: I think nailing this down in the style manual would be a great idea. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 17:32, June 6, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::It should also be pointed out that Fr. Alexander used the words &amp;quot;possibly&amp;quot; which would indicate he was giving a guesstimate.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 03:51, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Fr. John, do you know of an officially published ROCOR estimate concerning itself?  The problem here is having something reliable to cite.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 05:32, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: I'm trying to see what I can come up with.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 05:24, June 3, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::I have not been able to find anything as of yet from ROCOR documents... but if you look at Bishop Kallistos' &amp;quot;The Orthodox Church&amp;quot;, the 1994 edition, he puts the number at &amp;quot;perhaps 150,000&amp;quot;. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 17:32, June 6, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== You logic is flawed Fr. Andrei ==&lt;br /&gt;
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If you use that average system, then the OCA would only have 85,000 people??  And the Antiochians only 35,000.  I know of Antiochian parishes that have only 4 people.  Your logic is severely flawed.  The ROCOR lists &amp;quot;officially&amp;quot; 500,000 people.  The Church does not list the total number of parishes in Russia and the Ukraine (This may change due to the union.)  But, it is still hesitant because of Moscow's demands over these parishes which number, nearly 775.  Yes, that's right, 775!!!  Not all are listed.  Only 20 are listed.  But in truth the total number is closer to 1.35 million.&lt;br /&gt;
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I have seen these parishes with my own eyes.  &lt;br /&gt;
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The 1.5 million is a number supplied from the Russian government itself.  The Church Abroad has always kept these numbers low to protect themselves. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.dioceseinfo.org/DOCUMENTS/Diocese/commission2.html&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.neobyzantine.org/blog/viewtopic.php?p=3793&lt;br /&gt;
http://templars.wordpress.com/2007/05/21/putins-reunited-russian-church/&lt;br /&gt;
http://action-ukraine-report.blogspot.com/2007/05/aur844-may-18-enduring-crisis-in.html&lt;br /&gt;
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The ROCOR Church in Brooklyn was established to care for 11,000 Russians in Brooklyn who expressed interest in starting a church closer to where they live.  Several thousand were present for Pascha last year.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Cathedral in San Francisco has several thousand as well, these are two parishes (you do the math.) {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
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: *shrug*  I have no idea what you've seen, nor who you are (though I do have some reason to doubt that you've seen all 400 or 775 of ROCOR's parishes).  All I know is that the man whom the ROCOR appointed as the secretary of the commission which negotiated the union with the MP said one thing, and an anonymous editor on this wiki is saying another.  Fr. Alexander has much more credibility on this matter, methinks.&lt;br /&gt;
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: Even Fr. Alexey Young's 1993 history of the ROCOR says that &amp;quot;the figure probably does not exceed 50,000 worldwide&amp;quot; (p. 108).  I find it hard to believe that the ROCOR has grown by 1,450,000 people in the 12 years since it was published.&lt;br /&gt;
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: The links you post here are interesting, but none are even statements from anyone in the ROCOR.  We need verifiable, published statements by authoritative figures for stuff like this, not estimates in news sources, some of which are entirely anonymous.  &lt;br /&gt;
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: By the way, if you're a Greek, why did you change my name to &amp;quot;Fr. '''Andrei'''&amp;quot;?  Heheh.  ;)  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 19:24, May 30, 2007 (PDT) (a.k.a. Πάτερ Ανδρέας)&lt;br /&gt;
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Sorry its a bad habit.  I have many friends in the Russian Church and the Church Abroad, every parish seems to have an &amp;quot;Andrei,&amp;quot;  it can throw you off. The proper spelling according to the Greek/English variant is &amp;quot;Ohndreas.&amp;quot;  Of course &amp;quot;Andreas&amp;quot; is a more popular spelling, but linguistically inaccurate.  I had a Greek friend who would call himself &amp;quot;Andrei&amp;quot; and would argue with me relentlessly that his name was in fact Greek, I explained it was a &amp;quot;form&amp;quot; of the original Greek.  Being a Professor of Linguistics in Ancient Greek, I think I would know better. &lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Slava|Slava]] 10:54, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Undid numerous Agenda driven edits ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I undid numerous agenda driven edits by Samson1957.  Orthodoxwiki is not a forum for Old Calendarists schismatics to promote their schismatic agenda.  Read the policies of this web site. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 20:12, December 11, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Dear Fr. John:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:What is amazing is that an unsourced accusation is permitted to stand, and my edits regarding the patriarch, which are sourced are removed. His background, given ROCOR prior anti-Soviet stance, is very relevant. ROCOR's prior affiliation some 20 years ago with Holy Transfiguration Monastery does not seem relevant, except to disparage the reputation of HOCNA. Again, there is no source for the allegation that they left the Greek Archdiocese due to sexual scandal. &lt;br /&gt;
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:The edits that you seem to run away from, seem to express you desire to promote your own agenda, that is to whitewash and re-write ROCOR's history.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
:The edit regarding Bishop Agafangel, and the 100 priests that left with him, has also been removed. Why? How is that not relevant, if Fr. John insists on listing him as a suspended Bishop? &lt;br /&gt;
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  &lt;br /&gt;
:I find it inappropriate for you to make accusations which you do not support with a mainstrean source, which, I may add, seems to contradict the rules of this site.  You are intent on repeating accusations against Holy Transfiguration Monastery. If the accusations were true, where are the lawsuits that would inevitably follow in this litigious society.  When ROCOR had its own issues with pedaphilia, in Blanco Texas, they were sued.  Is ROCOR pedaphilia scandal and their law suit settlement relevant to the ROCOR article?  I do not think so, so I did not add it, but perhaps it should be added, together with copies of the deposition of what happened as a source? &lt;br /&gt;
:I copy below my note to the moderator, who seems to agree with your position that Alexei's past as a KGB agent, which I sourced to the front page Wall Street Journal article of July 17, 2007 is not relevant.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Would it be relevant to add after Bishop Peter, that he was uncanonically elevated without an investigation, whe a sub deacon objected to his elevation and spoke ANAXIOUS? The canons are clear on this, yet if I add that comment, it seems you would &amp;quot;lock me out&amp;quot; of use. Would it be relevant that Bishop Michael was anatamatized by Metropolitan Vitaly?, or would that be edited out as well? &lt;br /&gt;
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:My purpose here is simply for people to be aware of facts, whereas Fr. John's purpose, and now it seems yours as well, is to tell only your version of events, which describe as &amp;quot;mainstream&amp;quot;. I did not realize that truth or accusation was governed by consensus. &lt;br /&gt;
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:Unless Fr. John can provide support for his accusations, such as a mainstream newspaper, I ask that his inflamatory, and self serving accusations regarding other jurisdictions be removed. &lt;br /&gt;
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:Retrieved from &amp;quot;http://orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:Samson1957&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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::I can provide you with documentation to support what I have said about HTM... which accusations in particular would you like documentation for?  As for the absence of lawsuits connected with HTM, there were no accusations of pedophilia that I am aware of.  All the 20 monks that accused Panteleimon were adults. As for the claim that Agafangel has 100 parishes, you provided no source for that assertion.  It seems like a rather unlikely round number to me. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 20:28, December 13, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Dear Fr. John:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I note that you do not comment on Alexei's KGB affiliation, which I take as you acceptance of that fact.  As such, should it not be included in the text? or is the truth not palatable?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::With regard to your accusations against HTM, yes please show me one iota of evidence that HTM left the Greek Archdiocese due to a sexual scandal.  If you cannot produce it, please remove the reference.  With regard to lawsuits, I did not suggest that pedaphilia was ever alleged at HTM, I suggested that sexual assault would have been met by a lawsuit.  Pedaphilia lawsuits have only been brought against ROCOR for the Blanco situation.  Since you seem intent on posting inflamatory accusations about HTM, please also reference the ROCOR scandals in Blanco, and the lack of investigation ROCOR undertook before accepting these &amp;quot;priests&amp;quot;.  Why is it that you do not argue the points raised by HTM, with regard to canons or ecclesiology?  Instead you choose to simply disparage HTM, based upon unproven accusations.  Is HTM such a thorn in your side that you seem intent on including them in your article about ROCOR?  If their affiliation with ROCOR is so important to your article, please identify what their positions were, that you believe were so out of line with ROCORs.  Please do so with proper cites.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::With regard to Bishop Agafangel, you are right, 100 is a round number.  Last count was 87.  Would you like me to post the addresses and contact information for these parishes, with my edit?  This would save time for anyone who wished to go to those parishes.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I also not that you make no comment regarding Bishop Peter's elevation, or Metropolitan's anathema of Bishop Michael.  Is that not relevant to an objective history of ROCOR?&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I look forward to your response.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Nat&lt;br /&gt;
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::::As for the allegations against Patriarch Alexei, no, I do not believe them to be true.  You apparently do not understand that a wiki is not a debate forum, and your comments about Patriarch Alexei are completely out of place in this article.  In the article about Patriarch Alexei it would not be inappropriate to reference them, but they would have to presented as accusations, rather than facts, since they are in fact only accusations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::As for HTM, the quote you are reference was in this article long before I began editing in OrthodoxWiki.  I would not have phrased it the way that it is.  My understanding is that the Greek Archdiocese was investigating charges against HTM, when they left them and came to ROCOR.  I don't believe that this was the result of a public scandal at that time.  But regardless, that is clearly why they left ROCOR.  I do address HTM's arguments.  See [http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/hocna_facts.htm HOCNA Facts]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::As for the Blanco Scandal, ROCOR never tried to cover it up, and Blanco never tried to justify leaving ROCOR on the basis of ROCOR being modernists and Ecumenists.  HTM does try to make false claims about why they left, and has tried to cover up the facts of the matter.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::As for Agafangel's parishes, you have not presented any reliable sources for your claims for his numbers.  As for Bishop Peter's elevation, you cannot cite any canons to justify your assertion that the voice of one objector to the consecration of a bishop invalidates his consecration.  When a bishop-elect is preparing to be consecrated, there are plenty of opportunities for objectors to raise any issues that they wish.  Criticisms of bishop Peter were presented, our bishops considered them, and they did not accept them -- perhaps on the basis of the Scriptures and the Canons which state that we should not receive an accusation against a presbyter except at the testimony of two or three witnesses. There is no right for an individual to veto the bishops at the last moment, when the prayers of consecration have already taken place. That is nonsense.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::As for the retired Metropolitans alleged anathematizing of Bishop Michael, it is irrelevant because #1, retired bishops don't have such authority, and #2, even active bishops do not have the authority to anathematize a fellow bishop on their own, without any consultation of anyone else.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::If you intend to be a constructive editor here, I suggest you read the [[MCB]] and abide by it.  You also need to learn how to indent your comments, and sign your name to your comments. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 21:16, December 14, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You state that this is not a debate forum, however, that is exactly what you are trying to do.  Why is Holy Transfiguration Monastery even relevant to an article on ROCOR.  You state that the edit regarding Patriarch Alexei, and his KGB past which was sourced, was not appropriate, yet an entire heading on the ROCOR page is dedicated to disparaging a different jurisdiction.  If a heading is appropriate regarding Holy Transfiguration, how about a heading regarding the Metropolia/OCA, and how ROCOR issued an official protocol breaking communion with them.  How about a heading identifying all the official protocols ROCOR issued condemning the MP.  How about a heading explaining Metropolitan Philaret's Sorrowful Epistles, as they seem now also to apply to ROCOR.  How about a heading concerning the Anathema of 1983, and how it seemingly applies not to ROCOR, and as a result, ROCOR was obliged to essentially &amp;quot;void&amp;quot; the Anathema of 1983.  All these seem to deal directly with ROCOR, while HOCNA's prior association with ROCOR is at best a footnote.  However, you bias is clear, when you call HOCNA's views &amp;quot;narrow-minded and incorrect views &amp;quot;.  Would you un-edit me, if I said, some people believe that ROCOR has fallen under its own anathema of 1983, of if I stated that ROCOR's current position is a total rejection of its historical past?  I suggest that you would, but my remark is no different than your blanket statement that the Holy Transfiguration Monastery has &amp;quot;narrow-minded and incorrect views&amp;quot;, except that I would argue that my statement would be true.  If the statement about Patriarch Alexei's KGB past is inappropriate for the ROCOR page, so is the discussion about Holy Transfiguration Monastery.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will respond to your additional comments at a later time.  You may wish to check out yesterday's Wall Street Journal (December 18, 2007), which ran another article about the MP's ties to the KGB.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:Samson1957</id>
		<title>User talk:Samson1957</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:Samson1957"/>
				<updated>2007-12-20T00:22:28Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* ROCOR article */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{Welcome}} —[[User:Magda|&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;magda&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 13:53, November 6, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== [[ROCOR]] article ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hello!  Thanks for your contributions to the [[ROCOR]] article, but they're not in keeping with the [[OW:SM|OrthodoxWiki Style Manual]], most specifically the [[OW:MCB|Mainstream Chalcedonian Bias]].  HOCNA's version of events (which seems to be what's guiding your edits) generally falls outside that mainstream, as I'm sure you're aware.  Please follow the site's policies.  Thank you!  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 20:55, December 12, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thank you for your note, however you are not correct.  There has never been any allegation that HOCNA left the greek archdiocese due to sexual scandal.  While a sexual scadal has been alleged against HOCNA while they were part of ROCOR, there is no support for that which Fr. John is posting.  His post is not footnoted or supported.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My second edit, referencing that the current patriarch was a KGB agaent is supported by a front page Wall Street Journal article, which I linked.  Hiding from that truth, does not undo the truth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Fr. John can support his allegation in the first instance, then so be it.  He cannot, and therefore did not reference a source.  If Fr. John is upset that ROCOR's chief bishop was a government agent, that does not change the fact that it was reported and documented in a mainstream newspaper.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I stand by the edits.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thank you&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nat&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Your edits have again been reverted.  Please don't add them again, or your account will be blocked from editing for a time.  If you wish to discuss the article before making new edits (which is highly recommended, especially for controversial subjects), please do so on its [[Talk:Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia|talk page]].  (Regarding the allegations against Patr. Alexei II, it's not really relevant to this article but could be addressed in the article on the patriarch.)  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 07:59, December 13, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dear Fr. Andrew:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What is amazing is that an unsourced accusation is permitted to stand, and my edits regarding the patriarch, which are sourced are removed.  His background, given ROCOR prior anti-Soviet stance, is very relevant.  ROCOR's prior affiliation some 20 years ago with Holy Transfiguration Monastery does not seem relevant, except to disparage the reputation of HOCNA.  Again, there is no source for the allegation that they left the Greek Archdiocese due to sexual scandal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The edit regarding Bishop Agafangel, and the 100 priests that left with him, has also been removed.  Why?  How is that not relevant, if Fr. John insists on listing him as a suspended Bishop?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Would it be relevant to add after Bishop Peter, that he was uncanonically elevated without an investigation, whe a sub deacon objected to his elevation and spoke ANAXIOUS?  The canons are clear on this, yet if I add that comment, it seems you would &amp;quot;lock me out&amp;quot; of use. Would it be relevant that Bishop Michael was anatamatized by Metropolitan Vitaly?, or would that be edited out as well?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My purpose here is simply for people to be aware of facts, whereas Fr. John's purpose, and now it seems yours as well, is to tell only your version of events, which describe as &amp;quot;mainstream&amp;quot;.  I did not realize that truth or accusation was governed by consensus.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unless Fr. John can provide support for his accusations, such as a mainstream newspaper, I ask that his inflamatory, and self serving accusations regarding other jurisdictions be removed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dear Fr. Andew:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I copy to you a copy of my reply to Fr. John&lt;br /&gt;
You state that this is not a debate forum, however, that is exactly what you are trying to do.  Why is Holy Transfiguration Monastery even relevant to an article on ROCOR.  You state that the edit regarding Patriarch Alexei, and his KGB past which was sourced, was not appropriate, yet an entire heading on the ROCOR page is dedicated to disparaging a different jurisdiction.  If a heading is appropriate regarding Holy Transfiguration, how about a heading regarding the Metropolia/OCA, and how ROCOR issued an official protocol breaking communion with them.  How about a heading identifying all the official protocols ROCOR issued condemning the MP.  How about a heading explaining Metropolitan Philaret's Sorrowful Epistles, as they seem now also to apply to ROCOR.  How about a heading concerning the Anathema of 1983, and how it seemingly applies not to ROCOR, and as a result, ROCOR was obliged to essentially &amp;quot;void&amp;quot; the Anathema of 1983.  All these seem to deal directly with ROCOR, while HOCNA's prior association with ROCOR is at best a footnote.  However, you bias is clear, when you call HOCNA's views &amp;quot;narrow-minded and incorrect views &amp;quot;.  Would you un-edit me, if I said, some people believe that ROCOR has fallen under its own anathema of 1983, of if I stated that ROCOR's current position is a total rejection of its historical past?  I suggest that you would, but my remark is no different than your blanket statement that the Holy Transfiguration Monastery has &amp;quot;narrow-minded and incorrect views&amp;quot;, except that I would argue that my statement would be true.  If the statement about Patriarch Alexei's KGB past is inappropriate for the ROCOR page, so is the discussion about Holy Transfiguration Monastery.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will respond to your additional comments at a later time.  You may wish to check out yesterday's Wall Street Journal (December 18, 2007), which ran another article about the MP's ties to the KGB.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/Alexei_II_(Ridiger)_of_Moscow</id>
		<title>Alexei II (Ridiger) of Moscow</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Alexei_II_(Ridiger)_of_Moscow"/>
				<updated>2007-12-15T00:02:01Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* External link */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:alexeyII.jpg|frame|right|Patriarch Alexey II of Moscow and All Russia]]&lt;br /&gt;
His Holiness Patriarch '''Alexei II (Ridiger) of Moscow''' (born [[February 23]], 1929) is the current Patriarch of Moscow and the head of the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]]. He was born as '''Alexey Mikhailovich Ridiger''' in Tallinn, Estonia, to the family of a [[priest]]. He graduated from Leningrad clerical seminary in 1949; was ordained [[deacon]] in 1950; graduated from Leningrad clerical academy in 1953. On [[August 14]], 1961, he was chosen to be the [[Bishop]] of Tallinn and Estonia. On [[June 23]], 1964, he was promoted to [[archbishop]]; and, on [[February 25]], 1968, at the age of 39 - to [[metropolitan]]. After the death of Patriarch Pimen in 1990 Alexei was chosen to become the new head of Russian Orthodox Church.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Despite his age, Patriarch Alexei II is quite healthy and leads an active political life. He is frequently seen on Russian TV, meeting with politicians and expressing opinions that are usually in line with political opinions of the President of Russia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
His name (secular '''Алексей''', clerical '''Алексий''') is transliterated from the Russian alphabet into English in various forms, including '''Alexius''', '''Alexei''', and '''Alexy'''.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External link==&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.mospat.ru/index.php?mid=99 Biography on the official site of the Moscow Patriarchate]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{start box}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{succession|&lt;br /&gt;
before=Pimen|&lt;br /&gt;
title=[[Church of Russia|Patriarch of Moscow]]|&lt;br /&gt;
years=1990-present|&lt;br /&gt;
after=&amp;amp;mdash;}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{end box}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[es:Alexei II (Ridiger) de Moscú]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Bishops]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Patriarchs of Moscow]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On July 17, 2007, the Wall Street Journal published a front page article in which it identified Patriarch Alexei as a former KGB agent, with the code name &amp;quot;Drozdov&amp;quot;. [http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB118469533202469128-lMyQjAxMDE3ODE0NzYxOTc1Wj.html] The article also presented documents from the Estonian archives, indicating that Agent &amp;quot;Drozdov&amp;quot; actively informed upon priests in the Soviet Union.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/Talk:Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia</id>
		<title>Talk:Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Talk:Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia"/>
				<updated>2007-12-14T23:51:53Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* Undid numerous Agenda driven edits */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;I'm not sure how the Monks of HTM being &amp;quot;English speakers&amp;quot; is germane to becoming responsible for communication and publications. Did they become responsible for '''English language''' material? If so, the article should reflect that. If there is some other link, that should be noted. Otherwise, the clause about them being speakers of English is irrelevant, I think, and should be omitted.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many thanks to the anonymous editor who helped with this article. You should consider getting an account so we know whom to thank next time. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 13:46, 16 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The anonymous editor is a monastic friend of mine and something of an expert on ROCOR history.  I asked him to help with the article.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I think the issue regarding English language stuff is because the ROCOR bishops of the time were mainly in the US but largely not very good with English.  --[[User:ASDamick|Rdr. Andrew]] 19:34, 16 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I could tell he was an expert. Very helpful. Please thank him for us. And thanks for the clarification. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 15:14, 17 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== &amp;quot;Sources close to the synod&amp;quot; ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the &amp;quot;Rapprochement&amp;quot; section, recent edits were made with statements based on &amp;quot;sources&amp;quot; close to the synod.  Unless these sources can be cited, it's really not much more than rumor.  If there's no one on record as saying something, it makes it quite hard to justify inclusion of such material.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;blue&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;&amp;lt;i&amp;gt;Dcn. Andrew&amp;lt;/i&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[Special:Randompage|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;blue&amp;quot;&amp;gt;random&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 18:04, May 26, 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Rapprochement with Moscow ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I suspect that this section will need a major revision/rewrite once ROCOR and Moscow repair their communion, which is slated to take place on May 17, 2006 in Moscow. The Rapprochement section here could be rewritten as a closed narrative as opposed to an ongoing news event. Certainly there will be a bit more news surrounding the event and the ongoing relations between the two, but as the act of canonical communion becomes a reality and is enacted, I suspect that much on this page will have to be rewritten. What do you all think? {{unsigned|Maximos}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Certainly!  Articles should be as up to date as possible.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 10:48, December 29, 2006 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Population ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A recent edit quoted a [http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1622544,00.html Time Magazine] article, which estimates the ROCOR population at 500k to 1.5m.  Since the ROCOR has roughly 400 parishes worldwide, this would put the average parish size at 1250 to 3750.  That doesn't seem even remotely realistic to me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By contrast, a recent [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=interview&amp;amp;div=51 interview] with Archpriest Alexander Lebedev puts the figure at 60k to 100k (an average of 150 to 250 per parish).  It seems to me that an official spokesman for the ROCOR being directly interviewed is more to be believed than Time Magazine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What do you think?  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:43, May 30, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 60,000 to 100,000 ?? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is an OCA created number.  The Russian Church Abroad has always been larger than the OCA.  For example, there are 50,000 faithful in New York alone!  The closer number is 1.35 million worldwide.  The Church lost over 150,000 members in Russia and South America because of its reunion with the Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Get it right. {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: The 60k to 100k figure comes from [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=interview&amp;amp;div=51 an interview with ROCOR spokesman Fr. Alexander Lebedev].  I have my doubts that he gets his jurisdiction's statistics from the OCA.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:50, May 30, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Fr. Alexander is a good man, but, he is not the official spokesman the Church.  He just speaks alot!  :) {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Just a note on this -- to me, when dealing with something as concrete as numbers, I would probably trust a secular demographer more than an official spokesman of any church. I don't think &amp;quot;official&amp;quot; really matters here, except perrhaps in terms of access to information. — [[User:FrJohn|&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;FrJohn&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;section=new talk])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I think the discrepency is that Fr. Alexander was talking about the numbers of people who regularly go to Church, and the larger numbers include people who come to Church when they are hatched, matched, and dispatched.  Perhaps some standard should be used that is applied to all jurisdictions, because I think most of them go with the higher numbers which include people who have loose affiliations with the Church.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 03:49, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Fr. John W., I think these are awfully sane words. I know the OCA has at least two rough sets of statistics, wildly different, based on whether one is talking about the larger enthic-affiiliated community, or actually church-goers. Maybe we should put a note in the style manual about this. Personally, I'd prefer the actual church-goer number, but I don't mind if both are listed and identified. Of course, all of these are approximate. — [[User:FrJohn|&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;FrJohn&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;section=new talk])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::: I think nailing this down in the style manual would be a great idea. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 17:32, June 6, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::It should also be pointed out that Fr. Alexander used the words &amp;quot;possibly&amp;quot; which would indicate he was giving a guesstimate.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 03:51, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Fr. John, do you know of an officially published ROCOR estimate concerning itself?  The problem here is having something reliable to cite.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 05:32, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::: I'm trying to see what I can come up with.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 05:24, June 3, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I have not been able to find anything as of yet from ROCOR documents... but if you look at Bishop Kallistos' &amp;quot;The Orthodox Church&amp;quot;, the 1994 edition, he puts the number at &amp;quot;perhaps 150,000&amp;quot;. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 17:32, June 6, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== You logic is flawed Fr. Andrei ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you use that average system, then the OCA would only have 85,000 people??  And the Antiochians only 35,000.  I know of Antiochian parishes that have only 4 people.  Your logic is severely flawed.  The ROCOR lists &amp;quot;officially&amp;quot; 500,000 people.  The Church does not list the total number of parishes in Russia and the Ukraine (This may change due to the union.)  But, it is still hesitant because of Moscow's demands over these parishes which number, nearly 775.  Yes, that's right, 775!!!  Not all are listed.  Only 20 are listed.  But in truth the total number is closer to 1.35 million.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have seen these parishes with my own eyes.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The 1.5 million is a number supplied from the Russian government itself.  The Church Abroad has always kept these numbers low to protect themselves. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.dioceseinfo.org/DOCUMENTS/Diocese/commission2.html&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.neobyzantine.org/blog/viewtopic.php?p=3793&lt;br /&gt;
http://templars.wordpress.com/2007/05/21/putins-reunited-russian-church/&lt;br /&gt;
http://action-ukraine-report.blogspot.com/2007/05/aur844-may-18-enduring-crisis-in.html&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ROCOR Church in Brooklyn was established to care for 11,000 Russians in Brooklyn who expressed interest in starting a church closer to where they live.  Several thousand were present for Pascha last year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Cathedral in San Francisco has several thousand as well, these are two parishes (you do the math.) {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: *shrug*  I have no idea what you've seen, nor who you are (though I do have some reason to doubt that you've seen all 400 or 775 of ROCOR's parishes).  All I know is that the man whom the ROCOR appointed as the secretary of the commission which negotiated the union with the MP said one thing, and an anonymous editor on this wiki is saying another.  Fr. Alexander has much more credibility on this matter, methinks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Even Fr. Alexey Young's 1993 history of the ROCOR says that &amp;quot;the figure probably does not exceed 50,000 worldwide&amp;quot; (p. 108).  I find it hard to believe that the ROCOR has grown by 1,450,000 people in the 12 years since it was published.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: The links you post here are interesting, but none are even statements from anyone in the ROCOR.  We need verifiable, published statements by authoritative figures for stuff like this, not estimates in news sources, some of which are entirely anonymous.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: By the way, if you're a Greek, why did you change my name to &amp;quot;Fr. '''Andrei'''&amp;quot;?  Heheh.  ;)  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 19:24, May 30, 2007 (PDT) (a.k.a. Πάτερ Ανδρέας)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry its a bad habit.  I have many friends in the Russian Church and the Church Abroad, every parish seems to have an &amp;quot;Andrei,&amp;quot;  it can throw you off. The proper spelling according to the Greek/English variant is &amp;quot;Ohndreas.&amp;quot;  Of course &amp;quot;Andreas&amp;quot; is a more popular spelling, but linguistically inaccurate.  I had a Greek friend who would call himself &amp;quot;Andrei&amp;quot; and would argue with me relentlessly that his name was in fact Greek, I explained it was a &amp;quot;form&amp;quot; of the original Greek.  Being a Professor of Linguistics in Ancient Greek, I think I would know better. &lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Slava|Slava]] 10:54, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Undid numerous Agenda driven edits ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I undid numerous agenda driven edits by Samson1957.  Orthodoxwiki is not a forum for Old Calendarists schismatics to promote their schismatic agenda.  Read the policies of this web site. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 20:12, December 11, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Dear Fr. John:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:What is amazing is that an unsourced accusation is permitted to stand, and my edits regarding the patriarch, which are sourced are removed. His background, given ROCOR prior anti-Soviet stance, is very relevant. ROCOR's prior affiliation some 20 years ago with Holy Transfiguration Monastery does not seem relevant, except to disparage the reputation of HOCNA. Again, there is no source for the allegation that they left the Greek Archdiocese due to sexual scandal. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The edits that you seem to run away from, seem to express you desire to promote your own agenda, that is to whitewash and re-write ROCOR's history.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
:The edit regarding Bishop Agafangel, and the 100 priests that left with him, has also been removed. Why? How is that not relevant, if Fr. John insists on listing him as a suspended Bishop? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  &lt;br /&gt;
:I find it inappropriate for you to make accusations which you do not support with a mainstrean source, which, I may add, seems to contradict the rules of this site.  You are intent on repeating accusations against Holy Transfiguration Monastery. If the accusations were true, where are the lawsuits that would inevitably follow in this litigious society.  When ROCOR had its own issues with pedaphilia, in Blanco Texas, they were sued.  Is ROCOR pedaphilia scandal and their law suit settlement relevant to the ROCOR article?  I do not think so, so I did not add it, but perhaps it should be added, together with copies of the deposition of what happened as a source? &lt;br /&gt;
:I copy below my note to the moderator, who seems to agree with your position that Alexei's past as a KGB agent, which I sourced to the front page Wall Street Journal article of July 17, 2007 is not relevant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Would it be relevant to add after Bishop Peter, that he was uncanonically elevated without an investigation, whe a sub deacon objected to his elevation and spoke ANAXIOUS? The canons are clear on this, yet if I add that comment, it seems you would &amp;quot;lock me out&amp;quot; of use. Would it be relevant that Bishop Michael was anatamatized by Metropolitan Vitaly?, or would that be edited out as well? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:My purpose here is simply for people to be aware of facts, whereas Fr. John's purpose, and now it seems yours as well, is to tell only your version of events, which describe as &amp;quot;mainstream&amp;quot;. I did not realize that truth or accusation was governed by consensus. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Unless Fr. John can provide support for his accusations, such as a mainstream newspaper, I ask that his inflamatory, and self serving accusations regarding other jurisdictions be removed. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Retrieved from &amp;quot;http://orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:Samson1957&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I can provide you with documentation to support what I have said about HTM... which accusations in particular would you like documentation for?  As for the absence of lawsuits connected with HTM, there were no accusations of pedophilia that I am aware of.  All the 20 monks that accused Panteleimon were adults. As for the claim that Agafangel has 100 parishes, you provided no source for that assertion.  It seems like a rather unlikely round number to me. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 20:28, December 13, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dear Fr. John:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I note that you do not comment on Alexei's KGB affiliation, which I take as you acceptance of that fact.  As such, should it not be included in the text? or is the truth not palatable?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With regard to your accusations against HTM, yes please show me one iota of evidence that HTM left the Greek Archdiocese due to a sexual scandal.  If you cannot produce it, please remove the reference.  With regard to lawsuits, I did not suggest that pedaphilia was ever alleged at HTM, I suggested that sexual assault would have been met by a lawsuit.  Pedaphilia lawsuits have only been brought against ROCOR for the Blanco situation.  Since you seem intent on posting inflamatory accusations about HTM, please also reference the ROCOR scandals in Blanco, and the lack of investigation ROCOR undertook before accepting these &amp;quot;priests&amp;quot;.  Why is it that you do not argue the points raised by HTM, with regard to canons or ecclesiology?  Instead you choose to simply disparage HTM, based upon unproven accusations.  Is HTM such a thorn in your side that you seem intent on including them in your article about ROCOR?  If their affiliation with ROCOR is so important to your article, please identify what their positions were, that you believe were so out of line with ROCORs.  Please do so with proper cites.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With regard to Bishop Agafangel, you are right, 100 is a round number.  Last count was 87.  Would you like me to post the addresses and contact information for these parishes, with my edit?  This would save time for anyone who wished to go to those parishes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I also not that you make no comment regarding Bishop Peter's elevation, or Metropolitan's anathema of Bishop Michael.  Is that not relevant to an objective history of ROCOR?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I look forward to your response.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nat&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/Talk:Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia</id>
		<title>Talk:Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Talk:Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia"/>
				<updated>2007-12-13T19:38:50Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* Undid numerous Agenda driven edits */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;I'm not sure how the Monks of HTM being &amp;quot;English speakers&amp;quot; is germane to becoming responsible for communication and publications. Did they become responsible for '''English language''' material? If so, the article should reflect that. If there is some other link, that should be noted. Otherwise, the clause about them being speakers of English is irrelevant, I think, and should be omitted.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many thanks to the anonymous editor who helped with this article. You should consider getting an account so we know whom to thank next time. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 13:46, 16 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The anonymous editor is a monastic friend of mine and something of an expert on ROCOR history.  I asked him to help with the article.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I think the issue regarding English language stuff is because the ROCOR bishops of the time were mainly in the US but largely not very good with English.  --[[User:ASDamick|Rdr. Andrew]] 19:34, 16 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I could tell he was an expert. Very helpful. Please thank him for us. And thanks for the clarification. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 15:14, 17 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== &amp;quot;Sources close to the synod&amp;quot; ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the &amp;quot;Rapprochement&amp;quot; section, recent edits were made with statements based on &amp;quot;sources&amp;quot; close to the synod.  Unless these sources can be cited, it's really not much more than rumor.  If there's no one on record as saying something, it makes it quite hard to justify inclusion of such material.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;blue&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;&amp;lt;i&amp;gt;Dcn. Andrew&amp;lt;/i&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[Special:Randompage|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;blue&amp;quot;&amp;gt;random&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 18:04, May 26, 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Rapprochement with Moscow ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I suspect that this section will need a major revision/rewrite once ROCOR and Moscow repair their communion, which is slated to take place on May 17, 2006 in Moscow. The Rapprochement section here could be rewritten as a closed narrative as opposed to an ongoing news event. Certainly there will be a bit more news surrounding the event and the ongoing relations between the two, but as the act of canonical communion becomes a reality and is enacted, I suspect that much on this page will have to be rewritten. What do you all think? {{unsigned|Maximos}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Certainly!  Articles should be as up to date as possible.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 10:48, December 29, 2006 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Population ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A recent edit quoted a [http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1622544,00.html Time Magazine] article, which estimates the ROCOR population at 500k to 1.5m.  Since the ROCOR has roughly 400 parishes worldwide, this would put the average parish size at 1250 to 3750.  That doesn't seem even remotely realistic to me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By contrast, a recent [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=interview&amp;amp;div=51 interview] with Archpriest Alexander Lebedev puts the figure at 60k to 100k (an average of 150 to 250 per parish).  It seems to me that an official spokesman for the ROCOR being directly interviewed is more to be believed than Time Magazine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What do you think?  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:43, May 30, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 60,000 to 100,000 ?? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is an OCA created number.  The Russian Church Abroad has always been larger than the OCA.  For example, there are 50,000 faithful in New York alone!  The closer number is 1.35 million worldwide.  The Church lost over 150,000 members in Russia and South America because of its reunion with the Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Get it right. {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: The 60k to 100k figure comes from [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=interview&amp;amp;div=51 an interview with ROCOR spokesman Fr. Alexander Lebedev].  I have my doubts that he gets his jurisdiction's statistics from the OCA.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:50, May 30, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Fr. Alexander is a good man, but, he is not the official spokesman the Church.  He just speaks alot!  :) {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Just a note on this -- to me, when dealing with something as concrete as numbers, I would probably trust a secular demographer more than an official spokesman of any church. I don't think &amp;quot;official&amp;quot; really matters here, except perrhaps in terms of access to information. — [[User:FrJohn|&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;FrJohn&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;section=new talk])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I think the discrepency is that Fr. Alexander was talking about the numbers of people who regularly go to Church, and the larger numbers include people who come to Church when they are hatched, matched, and dispatched.  Perhaps some standard should be used that is applied to all jurisdictions, because I think most of them go with the higher numbers which include people who have loose affiliations with the Church.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 03:49, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Fr. John W., I think these are awfully sane words. I know the OCA has at least two rough sets of statistics, wildly different, based on whether one is talking about the larger enthic-affiiliated community, or actually church-goers. Maybe we should put a note in the style manual about this. Personally, I'd prefer the actual church-goer number, but I don't mind if both are listed and identified. Of course, all of these are approximate. — [[User:FrJohn|&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;FrJohn&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;section=new talk])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::: I think nailing this down in the style manual would be a great idea. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 17:32, June 6, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::It should also be pointed out that Fr. Alexander used the words &amp;quot;possibly&amp;quot; which would indicate he was giving a guesstimate.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 03:51, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Fr. John, do you know of an officially published ROCOR estimate concerning itself?  The problem here is having something reliable to cite.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 05:32, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::: I'm trying to see what I can come up with.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 05:24, June 3, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I have not been able to find anything as of yet from ROCOR documents... but if you look at Bishop Kallistos' &amp;quot;The Orthodox Church&amp;quot;, the 1994 edition, he puts the number at &amp;quot;perhaps 150,000&amp;quot;. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 17:32, June 6, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== You logic is flawed Fr. Andrei ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you use that average system, then the OCA would only have 85,000 people??  And the Antiochians only 35,000.  I know of Antiochian parishes that have only 4 people.  Your logic is severely flawed.  The ROCOR lists &amp;quot;officially&amp;quot; 500,000 people.  The Church does not list the total number of parishes in Russia and the Ukraine (This may change due to the union.)  But, it is still hesitant because of Moscow's demands over these parishes which number, nearly 775.  Yes, that's right, 775!!!  Not all are listed.  Only 20 are listed.  But in truth the total number is closer to 1.35 million.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have seen these parishes with my own eyes.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The 1.5 million is a number supplied from the Russian government itself.  The Church Abroad has always kept these numbers low to protect themselves. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.dioceseinfo.org/DOCUMENTS/Diocese/commission2.html&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.neobyzantine.org/blog/viewtopic.php?p=3793&lt;br /&gt;
http://templars.wordpress.com/2007/05/21/putins-reunited-russian-church/&lt;br /&gt;
http://action-ukraine-report.blogspot.com/2007/05/aur844-may-18-enduring-crisis-in.html&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ROCOR Church in Brooklyn was established to care for 11,000 Russians in Brooklyn who expressed interest in starting a church closer to where they live.  Several thousand were present for Pascha last year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Cathedral in San Francisco has several thousand as well, these are two parishes (you do the math.) {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: *shrug*  I have no idea what you've seen, nor who you are (though I do have some reason to doubt that you've seen all 400 or 775 of ROCOR's parishes).  All I know is that the man whom the ROCOR appointed as the secretary of the commission which negotiated the union with the MP said one thing, and an anonymous editor on this wiki is saying another.  Fr. Alexander has much more credibility on this matter, methinks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Even Fr. Alexey Young's 1993 history of the ROCOR says that &amp;quot;the figure probably does not exceed 50,000 worldwide&amp;quot; (p. 108).  I find it hard to believe that the ROCOR has grown by 1,450,000 people in the 12 years since it was published.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: The links you post here are interesting, but none are even statements from anyone in the ROCOR.  We need verifiable, published statements by authoritative figures for stuff like this, not estimates in news sources, some of which are entirely anonymous.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: By the way, if you're a Greek, why did you change my name to &amp;quot;Fr. '''Andrei'''&amp;quot;?  Heheh.  ;)  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 19:24, May 30, 2007 (PDT) (a.k.a. Πάτερ Ανδρέας)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry its a bad habit.  I have many friends in the Russian Church and the Church Abroad, every parish seems to have an &amp;quot;Andrei,&amp;quot;  it can throw you off. The proper spelling according to the Greek/English variant is &amp;quot;Ohndreas.&amp;quot;  Of course &amp;quot;Andreas&amp;quot; is a more popular spelling, but linguistically inaccurate.  I had a Greek friend who would call himself &amp;quot;Andrei&amp;quot; and would argue with me relentlessly that his name was in fact Greek, I explained it was a &amp;quot;form&amp;quot; of the original Greek.  Being a Professor of Linguistics in Ancient Greek, I think I would know better. &lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Slava|Slava]] 10:54, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Undid numerous Agenda driven edits ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I undid numerous agenda driven edits by Samson1957.  Orthodoxwiki is not a forum for Old Calendarists schismatics to promote their schismatic agenda.  Read the policies of this web site. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 20:12, December 11, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dear Fr. John:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What is amazing is that an unsourced accusation is permitted to stand, and my edits regarding the patriarch, which are sourced are removed. His background, given ROCOR prior anti-Soviet stance, is very relevant. ROCOR's prior affiliation some 20 years ago with Holy Transfiguration Monastery does not seem relevant, except to disparage the reputation of HOCNA. Again, there is no source for the allegation that they left the Greek Archdiocese due to sexual scandal. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The edits that you seem to run away from, seem to express you desire to promote your own agenda, that is to whitewash and re-write ROCOR's history.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
The edit regarding Bishop Agafangel, and the 100 priests that left with him, has also been removed. Why? How is that not relevant, if Fr. John insists on listing him as a suspended Bishop? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  &lt;br /&gt;
I find it inappropriate for you to make accusations which you do not support with a mainstrean source, which, I may add, seems to contradict the rules of this site.  You are intent on repeating accusations against Holy Transfiguration Monastery. If the accusations were true, where are the lawsuits that would inevitably follow in this litigious society.  When ROCOR had its own issues with pedaphilia, in Blanco Texas, they were sued.  Is ROCOR pedaphilia scandal and their law suit settlement relevant to the ROCOR article?  I do not think so, so I did not add it, but perhaps it should be added, together with copies of the deposition of what happened as a source? &lt;br /&gt;
I copy below my note to the moderator, who seems to agree with your position that Alexei's past as a KGB agent, which I sourced to the front page Wall Street Journal article of July 17, 2007 is not relevant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Would it be relevant to add after Bishop Peter, that he was uncanonically elevated without an investigation, whe a sub deacon objected to his elevation and spoke ANAXIOUS? The canons are clear on this, yet if I add that comment, it seems you would &amp;quot;lock me out&amp;quot; of use. Would it be relevant that Bishop Michael was anatamatized by Metropolitan Vitaly?, or would that be edited out as well? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My purpose here is simply for people to be aware of facts, whereas Fr. John's purpose, and now it seems yours as well, is to tell only your version of events, which describe as &amp;quot;mainstream&amp;quot;. I did not realize that truth or accusation was governed by consensus. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unless Fr. John can provide support for his accusations, such as a mainstream newspaper, I ask that his inflamatory, and self serving accusations regarding other jurisdictions be removed. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Retrieved from &amp;quot;http://orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:Samson1957&amp;quot;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/Talk:Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia</id>
		<title>Talk:Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Talk:Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia"/>
				<updated>2007-12-13T19:37:57Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* Undid numerous Agenda driven edits */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;I'm not sure how the Monks of HTM being &amp;quot;English speakers&amp;quot; is germane to becoming responsible for communication and publications. Did they become responsible for '''English language''' material? If so, the article should reflect that. If there is some other link, that should be noted. Otherwise, the clause about them being speakers of English is irrelevant, I think, and should be omitted.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many thanks to the anonymous editor who helped with this article. You should consider getting an account so we know whom to thank next time. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 13:46, 16 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The anonymous editor is a monastic friend of mine and something of an expert on ROCOR history.  I asked him to help with the article.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I think the issue regarding English language stuff is because the ROCOR bishops of the time were mainly in the US but largely not very good with English.  --[[User:ASDamick|Rdr. Andrew]] 19:34, 16 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I could tell he was an expert. Very helpful. Please thank him for us. And thanks for the clarification. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 15:14, 17 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== &amp;quot;Sources close to the synod&amp;quot; ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the &amp;quot;Rapprochement&amp;quot; section, recent edits were made with statements based on &amp;quot;sources&amp;quot; close to the synod.  Unless these sources can be cited, it's really not much more than rumor.  If there's no one on record as saying something, it makes it quite hard to justify inclusion of such material.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;blue&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;&amp;lt;i&amp;gt;Dcn. Andrew&amp;lt;/i&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[Special:Randompage|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;blue&amp;quot;&amp;gt;random&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 18:04, May 26, 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Rapprochement with Moscow ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I suspect that this section will need a major revision/rewrite once ROCOR and Moscow repair their communion, which is slated to take place on May 17, 2006 in Moscow. The Rapprochement section here could be rewritten as a closed narrative as opposed to an ongoing news event. Certainly there will be a bit more news surrounding the event and the ongoing relations between the two, but as the act of canonical communion becomes a reality and is enacted, I suspect that much on this page will have to be rewritten. What do you all think? {{unsigned|Maximos}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Certainly!  Articles should be as up to date as possible.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 10:48, December 29, 2006 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Population ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A recent edit quoted a [http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1622544,00.html Time Magazine] article, which estimates the ROCOR population at 500k to 1.5m.  Since the ROCOR has roughly 400 parishes worldwide, this would put the average parish size at 1250 to 3750.  That doesn't seem even remotely realistic to me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By contrast, a recent [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=interview&amp;amp;div=51 interview] with Archpriest Alexander Lebedev puts the figure at 60k to 100k (an average of 150 to 250 per parish).  It seems to me that an official spokesman for the ROCOR being directly interviewed is more to be believed than Time Magazine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What do you think?  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:43, May 30, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 60,000 to 100,000 ?? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is an OCA created number.  The Russian Church Abroad has always been larger than the OCA.  For example, there are 50,000 faithful in New York alone!  The closer number is 1.35 million worldwide.  The Church lost over 150,000 members in Russia and South America because of its reunion with the Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Get it right. {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: The 60k to 100k figure comes from [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=interview&amp;amp;div=51 an interview with ROCOR spokesman Fr. Alexander Lebedev].  I have my doubts that he gets his jurisdiction's statistics from the OCA.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:50, May 30, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Fr. Alexander is a good man, but, he is not the official spokesman the Church.  He just speaks alot!  :) {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Just a note on this -- to me, when dealing with something as concrete as numbers, I would probably trust a secular demographer more than an official spokesman of any church. I don't think &amp;quot;official&amp;quot; really matters here, except perrhaps in terms of access to information. — [[User:FrJohn|&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;FrJohn&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;section=new talk])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I think the discrepency is that Fr. Alexander was talking about the numbers of people who regularly go to Church, and the larger numbers include people who come to Church when they are hatched, matched, and dispatched.  Perhaps some standard should be used that is applied to all jurisdictions, because I think most of them go with the higher numbers which include people who have loose affiliations with the Church.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 03:49, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Fr. John W., I think these are awfully sane words. I know the OCA has at least two rough sets of statistics, wildly different, based on whether one is talking about the larger enthic-affiiliated community, or actually church-goers. Maybe we should put a note in the style manual about this. Personally, I'd prefer the actual church-goer number, but I don't mind if both are listed and identified. Of course, all of these are approximate. — [[User:FrJohn|&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;FrJohn&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;section=new talk])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::: I think nailing this down in the style manual would be a great idea. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 17:32, June 6, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::It should also be pointed out that Fr. Alexander used the words &amp;quot;possibly&amp;quot; which would indicate he was giving a guesstimate.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 03:51, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Fr. John, do you know of an officially published ROCOR estimate concerning itself?  The problem here is having something reliable to cite.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 05:32, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::: I'm trying to see what I can come up with.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 05:24, June 3, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I have not been able to find anything as of yet from ROCOR documents... but if you look at Bishop Kallistos' &amp;quot;The Orthodox Church&amp;quot;, the 1994 edition, he puts the number at &amp;quot;perhaps 150,000&amp;quot;. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 17:32, June 6, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== You logic is flawed Fr. Andrei ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you use that average system, then the OCA would only have 85,000 people??  And the Antiochians only 35,000.  I know of Antiochian parishes that have only 4 people.  Your logic is severely flawed.  The ROCOR lists &amp;quot;officially&amp;quot; 500,000 people.  The Church does not list the total number of parishes in Russia and the Ukraine (This may change due to the union.)  But, it is still hesitant because of Moscow's demands over these parishes which number, nearly 775.  Yes, that's right, 775!!!  Not all are listed.  Only 20 are listed.  But in truth the total number is closer to 1.35 million.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have seen these parishes with my own eyes.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The 1.5 million is a number supplied from the Russian government itself.  The Church Abroad has always kept these numbers low to protect themselves. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.dioceseinfo.org/DOCUMENTS/Diocese/commission2.html&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.neobyzantine.org/blog/viewtopic.php?p=3793&lt;br /&gt;
http://templars.wordpress.com/2007/05/21/putins-reunited-russian-church/&lt;br /&gt;
http://action-ukraine-report.blogspot.com/2007/05/aur844-may-18-enduring-crisis-in.html&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ROCOR Church in Brooklyn was established to care for 11,000 Russians in Brooklyn who expressed interest in starting a church closer to where they live.  Several thousand were present for Pascha last year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Cathedral in San Francisco has several thousand as well, these are two parishes (you do the math.) {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: *shrug*  I have no idea what you've seen, nor who you are (though I do have some reason to doubt that you've seen all 400 or 775 of ROCOR's parishes).  All I know is that the man whom the ROCOR appointed as the secretary of the commission which negotiated the union with the MP said one thing, and an anonymous editor on this wiki is saying another.  Fr. Alexander has much more credibility on this matter, methinks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Even Fr. Alexey Young's 1993 history of the ROCOR says that &amp;quot;the figure probably does not exceed 50,000 worldwide&amp;quot; (p. 108).  I find it hard to believe that the ROCOR has grown by 1,450,000 people in the 12 years since it was published.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: The links you post here are interesting, but none are even statements from anyone in the ROCOR.  We need verifiable, published statements by authoritative figures for stuff like this, not estimates in news sources, some of which are entirely anonymous.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: By the way, if you're a Greek, why did you change my name to &amp;quot;Fr. '''Andrei'''&amp;quot;?  Heheh.  ;)  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 19:24, May 30, 2007 (PDT) (a.k.a. Πάτερ Ανδρέας)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry its a bad habit.  I have many friends in the Russian Church and the Church Abroad, every parish seems to have an &amp;quot;Andrei,&amp;quot;  it can throw you off. The proper spelling according to the Greek/English variant is &amp;quot;Ohndreas.&amp;quot;  Of course &amp;quot;Andreas&amp;quot; is a more popular spelling, but linguistically inaccurate.  I had a Greek friend who would call himself &amp;quot;Andrei&amp;quot; and would argue with me relentlessly that his name was in fact Greek, I explained it was a &amp;quot;form&amp;quot; of the original Greek.  Being a Professor of Linguistics in Ancient Greek, I think I would know better. &lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Slava|Slava]] 10:54, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Undid numerous Agenda driven edits ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I undid numerous agenda driven edits by Samson1957.  Orthodoxwiki is not a forum for Old Calendarists schismatics to promote their schismatic agenda.  Read the policies of this web site. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 20:12, December 11, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dear Fr. John:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What is amazing is that an unsourced accusation is permitted to stand, and my edits regarding the patriarch, which are sourced are removed. His background, given ROCOR prior anti-Soviet stance, is very relevant. ROCOR's prior affiliation some 20 years ago with Holy Transfiguration Monastery does not seem relevant, except to disparage the reputation of HOCNA. Again, there is no source for the allegation that they left the Greek Archdiocese due to sexual scandal. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The edits that you seem to run away from, seem to express you desire to promote your own agenda, that is to whitewash and re-write ROCOR's history.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
The edit regarding Bishop Agafangel, and the 100 priests that left with him, has also been removed. Why? How is that not relevant, if Fr. John insists on listing him as a suspended Bishop? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  I find it inappropriate for you to make accusations which you do not support with a mainstrean source, which, I may add, seems to contradict the rules of this site.  You are intent on repeating accusations against Holy Transfiguration Monastery. If the accusations were true, where are the lawsuits that would inevitably follow in this litigious society.  When ROCOR had its own issues with pedaphilia, in Blanco Texas, they were sued.  Is ROCOR pedaphilia scandal and their law suit settlement relevant to the ROCOR article?  I do not think so, so I did not add it, but perhaps it should be added, together with copies of the deposition of what happened as a source? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I copy below my note to the moderator, who seems to agree with your position that Alexei's past as a KGB agent, which I sourced to the front page Wall Street Journal article of July 17, 2007 is not relevant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Would it be relevant to add after Bishop Peter, that he was uncanonically elevated without an investigation, whe a sub deacon objected to his elevation and spoke ANAXIOUS? The canons are clear on this, yet if I add that comment, it seems you would &amp;quot;lock me out&amp;quot; of use. Would it be relevant that Bishop Michael was anatamatized by Metropolitan Vitaly?, or would that be edited out as well? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My purpose here is simply for people to be aware of facts, whereas Fr. John's purpose, and now it seems yours as well, is to tell only your version of events, which describe as &amp;quot;mainstream&amp;quot;. I did not realize that truth or accusation was governed by consensus. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unless Fr. John can provide support for his accusations, such as a mainstream newspaper, I ask that his inflamatory, and self serving accusations regarding other jurisdictions be removed. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Retrieved from &amp;quot;http://orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:Samson1957&amp;quot;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/Talk:Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia</id>
		<title>Talk:Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Talk:Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia"/>
				<updated>2007-12-13T19:36:12Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* Undid numerous Agenda driven edits */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;I'm not sure how the Monks of HTM being &amp;quot;English speakers&amp;quot; is germane to becoming responsible for communication and publications. Did they become responsible for '''English language''' material? If so, the article should reflect that. If there is some other link, that should be noted. Otherwise, the clause about them being speakers of English is irrelevant, I think, and should be omitted.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many thanks to the anonymous editor who helped with this article. You should consider getting an account so we know whom to thank next time. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 13:46, 16 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The anonymous editor is a monastic friend of mine and something of an expert on ROCOR history.  I asked him to help with the article.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I think the issue regarding English language stuff is because the ROCOR bishops of the time were mainly in the US but largely not very good with English.  --[[User:ASDamick|Rdr. Andrew]] 19:34, 16 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I could tell he was an expert. Very helpful. Please thank him for us. And thanks for the clarification. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 15:14, 17 Jan 2005 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== &amp;quot;Sources close to the synod&amp;quot; ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the &amp;quot;Rapprochement&amp;quot; section, recent edits were made with statements based on &amp;quot;sources&amp;quot; close to the synod.  Unless these sources can be cited, it's really not much more than rumor.  If there's no one on record as saying something, it makes it quite hard to justify inclusion of such material.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;blue&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;&amp;lt;i&amp;gt;Dcn. Andrew&amp;lt;/i&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[Special:Randompage|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;blue&amp;quot;&amp;gt;random&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 18:04, May 26, 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Rapprochement with Moscow ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I suspect that this section will need a major revision/rewrite once ROCOR and Moscow repair their communion, which is slated to take place on May 17, 2006 in Moscow. The Rapprochement section here could be rewritten as a closed narrative as opposed to an ongoing news event. Certainly there will be a bit more news surrounding the event and the ongoing relations between the two, but as the act of canonical communion becomes a reality and is enacted, I suspect that much on this page will have to be rewritten. What do you all think? {{unsigned|Maximos}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Certainly!  Articles should be as up to date as possible.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 10:48, December 29, 2006 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Population ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A recent edit quoted a [http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1622544,00.html Time Magazine] article, which estimates the ROCOR population at 500k to 1.5m.  Since the ROCOR has roughly 400 parishes worldwide, this would put the average parish size at 1250 to 3750.  That doesn't seem even remotely realistic to me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By contrast, a recent [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=interview&amp;amp;div=51 interview] with Archpriest Alexander Lebedev puts the figure at 60k to 100k (an average of 150 to 250 per parish).  It seems to me that an official spokesman for the ROCOR being directly interviewed is more to be believed than Time Magazine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What do you think?  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:43, May 30, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 60,000 to 100,000 ?? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is an OCA created number.  The Russian Church Abroad has always been larger than the OCA.  For example, there are 50,000 faithful in New York alone!  The closer number is 1.35 million worldwide.  The Church lost over 150,000 members in Russia and South America because of its reunion with the Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Get it right. {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: The 60k to 100k figure comes from [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=interview&amp;amp;div=51 an interview with ROCOR spokesman Fr. Alexander Lebedev].  I have my doubts that he gets his jurisdiction's statistics from the OCA.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:50, May 30, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Fr. Alexander is a good man, but, he is not the official spokesman the Church.  He just speaks alot!  :) {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Just a note on this -- to me, when dealing with something as concrete as numbers, I would probably trust a secular demographer more than an official spokesman of any church. I don't think &amp;quot;official&amp;quot; really matters here, except perrhaps in terms of access to information. — [[User:FrJohn|&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;FrJohn&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;section=new talk])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I think the discrepency is that Fr. Alexander was talking about the numbers of people who regularly go to Church, and the larger numbers include people who come to Church when they are hatched, matched, and dispatched.  Perhaps some standard should be used that is applied to all jurisdictions, because I think most of them go with the higher numbers which include people who have loose affiliations with the Church.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 03:49, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Fr. John W., I think these are awfully sane words. I know the OCA has at least two rough sets of statistics, wildly different, based on whether one is talking about the larger enthic-affiiliated community, or actually church-goers. Maybe we should put a note in the style manual about this. Personally, I'd prefer the actual church-goer number, but I don't mind if both are listed and identified. Of course, all of these are approximate. — [[User:FrJohn|&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;FrJohn&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&amp;amp;action=edit&amp;amp;section=new talk])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::: I think nailing this down in the style manual would be a great idea. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 17:32, June 6, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::It should also be pointed out that Fr. Alexander used the words &amp;quot;possibly&amp;quot; which would indicate he was giving a guesstimate.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 03:51, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Fr. John, do you know of an officially published ROCOR estimate concerning itself?  The problem here is having something reliable to cite.  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 05:32, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::: I'm trying to see what I can come up with.  [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 05:24, June 3, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I have not been able to find anything as of yet from ROCOR documents... but if you look at Bishop Kallistos' &amp;quot;The Orthodox Church&amp;quot;, the 1994 edition, he puts the number at &amp;quot;perhaps 150,000&amp;quot;. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 17:32, June 6, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== You logic is flawed Fr. Andrei ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you use that average system, then the OCA would only have 85,000 people??  And the Antiochians only 35,000.  I know of Antiochian parishes that have only 4 people.  Your logic is severely flawed.  The ROCOR lists &amp;quot;officially&amp;quot; 500,000 people.  The Church does not list the total number of parishes in Russia and the Ukraine (This may change due to the union.)  But, it is still hesitant because of Moscow's demands over these parishes which number, nearly 775.  Yes, that's right, 775!!!  Not all are listed.  Only 20 are listed.  But in truth the total number is closer to 1.35 million.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have seen these parishes with my own eyes.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The 1.5 million is a number supplied from the Russian government itself.  The Church Abroad has always kept these numbers low to protect themselves. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.dioceseinfo.org/DOCUMENTS/Diocese/commission2.html&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.neobyzantine.org/blog/viewtopic.php?p=3793&lt;br /&gt;
http://templars.wordpress.com/2007/05/21/putins-reunited-russian-church/&lt;br /&gt;
http://action-ukraine-report.blogspot.com/2007/05/aur844-may-18-enduring-crisis-in.html&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ROCOR Church in Brooklyn was established to care for 11,000 Russians in Brooklyn who expressed interest in starting a church closer to where they live.  Several thousand were present for Pascha last year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Cathedral in San Francisco has several thousand as well, these are two parishes (you do the math.) {{unsigned|Slava}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: *shrug*  I have no idea what you've seen, nor who you are (though I do have some reason to doubt that you've seen all 400 or 775 of ROCOR's parishes).  All I know is that the man whom the ROCOR appointed as the secretary of the commission which negotiated the union with the MP said one thing, and an anonymous editor on this wiki is saying another.  Fr. Alexander has much more credibility on this matter, methinks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Even Fr. Alexey Young's 1993 history of the ROCOR says that &amp;quot;the figure probably does not exceed 50,000 worldwide&amp;quot; (p. 108).  I find it hard to believe that the ROCOR has grown by 1,450,000 people in the 12 years since it was published.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: The links you post here are interesting, but none are even statements from anyone in the ROCOR.  We need verifiable, published statements by authoritative figures for stuff like this, not estimates in news sources, some of which are entirely anonymous.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: By the way, if you're a Greek, why did you change my name to &amp;quot;Fr. '''Andrei'''&amp;quot;?  Heheh.  ;)  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 19:24, May 30, 2007 (PDT) (a.k.a. Πάτερ Ανδρέας)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry its a bad habit.  I have many friends in the Russian Church and the Church Abroad, every parish seems to have an &amp;quot;Andrei,&amp;quot;  it can throw you off. The proper spelling according to the Greek/English variant is &amp;quot;Ohndreas.&amp;quot;  Of course &amp;quot;Andreas&amp;quot; is a more popular spelling, but linguistically inaccurate.  I had a Greek friend who would call himself &amp;quot;Andrei&amp;quot; and would argue with me relentlessly that his name was in fact Greek, I explained it was a &amp;quot;form&amp;quot; of the original Greek.  Being a Professor of Linguistics in Ancient Greek, I think I would know better. &lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Slava|Slava]] 10:54, May 31, 2007 (PDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Undid numerous Agenda driven edits ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I undid numerous agenda driven edits by Samson1957.  Orthodoxwiki is not a forum for Old Calendarists schismatics to promote their schismatic agenda.  Read the policies of this web site. [[User:Frjohnwhiteford|Frjohnwhiteford]] 20:12, December 11, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What is amazing is that an unsourced accusation is permitted to stand, and my edits regarding the patriarch, which are sourced are removed. His background, given ROCOR prior anti-Soviet stance, is very relevant. ROCOR's prior affiliation some 20 years ago with Holy Transfiguration Monastery does not seem relevant, except to disparage the reputation of HOCNA. Again, there is no source for the allegation that they left the Greek Archdiocese due to sexual scandal. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dear Fr. John:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The edits that you seem to run away from, seem to express you desire to promote your own agenda, that is to whitewash and re-write ROCOR's history.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
The edit regarding Bishop Agafangel, and the 100 priests that left with him, has also been removed. Why? How is that not relevant, if Fr. John insists on listing him as a suspended Bishop? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  I find it inappropriate for you to make accusations which you do not support with a mainstrean source, which, I may add, seems to contradict the rules of this site.  You are intent on repeating accusations against Holy Transfiguration Monastery. If the accusations were true, where are the lawsuits that would inevitably follow in this litigious society.  When ROCOR had its own issues with pedaphilia, in Blanco Texas, they were sued.  Is ROCOR pedaphilia scandal and their law suit settlement relevant to the ROCOR article?  I do not think so, so I did not add it, but perhaps it should be added, together with copies of the deposition of what happened as a source? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I copy below my note to the moderator, who seems to agree with your position that Alexei's past as a KGB agent, which I sourced to the front page Wall Street Journal article of July 17, 2007 is not relevant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Would it be relevant to add after Bishop Peter, that he was uncanonically elevated without an investigation, whe a sub deacon objected to his elevation and spoke ANAXIOUS? The canons are clear on this, yet if I add that comment, it seems you would &amp;quot;lock me out&amp;quot; of use. Would it be relevant that Bishop Michael was anatamatized by Metropolitan Vitaly?, or would that be edited out as well? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My purpose here is simply for people to be aware of facts, whereas Fr. John's purpose, and now it seems yours as well, is to tell only your version of events, which describe as &amp;quot;mainstream&amp;quot;. I did not realize that truth or accusation was governed by consensus. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unless Fr. John can provide support for his accusations, such as a mainstream newspaper, I ask that his inflamatory, and self serving accusations regarding other jurisdictions be removed. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Retrieved from &amp;quot;http://orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:Samson1957&amp;quot;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:Samson1957</id>
		<title>User talk:Samson1957</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:Samson1957"/>
				<updated>2007-12-13T19:06:34Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* ROCOR article */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{Welcome}} —[[User:Magda|&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;magda&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 13:53, November 6, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== [[ROCOR]] article ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hello!  Thanks for your contributions to the [[ROCOR]] article, but they're not in keeping with the [[OW:SM|OrthodoxWiki Style Manual]], most specifically the [[OW:MCB|Mainstream Chalcedonian Bias]].  HOCNA's version of events (which seems to be what's guiding your edits) generally falls outside that mainstream, as I'm sure you're aware.  Please follow the site's policies.  Thank you!  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 20:55, December 12, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thank you for your note, however you are not correct.  There has never been any allegation that HOCNA left the greek archdiocese due to sexual scandal.  While a sexual scadal has been alleged against HOCNA while they were part of ROCOR, there is no support for that which Fr. John is posting.  His post is not footnoted or supported.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My second edit, referencing that the current patriarch was a KGB agaent is supported by a front page Wall Street Journal article, which I linked.  Hiding from that truth, does not undo the truth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Fr. John can support his allegation in the first instance, then so be it.  He cannot, and therefore did not reference a source.  If Fr. John is upset that ROCOR's chief bishop was a government agent, that does not change the fact that it was reported and documented in a mainstream newspaper.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I stand by the edits.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thank you&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nat&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Your edits have again been reverted.  Please don't add them again, or your account will be blocked from editing for a time.  If you wish to discuss the article before making new edits (which is highly recommended, especially for controversial subjects), please do so on its [[Talk:Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia|talk page]].  (Regarding the allegations against Patr. Alexei II, it's not really relevant to this article but could be addressed in the article on the patriarch.)  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 07:59, December 13, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dear Fr. Andrew:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What is amazing is that an unsourced accusation is permitted to stand, and my edits regarding the patriarch, which are sourced are removed.  His background, given ROCOR prior anti-Soviet stance, is very relevant.  ROCOR's prior affiliation some 20 years ago with Holy Transfiguration Monastery does not seem relevant, except to disparage the reputation of HOCNA.  Again, there is no source for the allegation that they left the Greek Archdiocese due to sexual scandal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The edit regarding Bishop Agafangel, and the 100 priests that left with him, has also been removed.  Why?  How is that not relevant, if Fr. John insists on listing him as a suspended Bishop?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Would it be relevant to add after Bishop Peter, that he was uncanonically elevated without an investigation, whe a sub deacon objected to his elevation and spoke ANAXIOUS?  The canons are clear on this, yet if I add that comment, it seems you would &amp;quot;lock me out&amp;quot; of use. Would it be relevant that Bishop Michael was anatamatized by Metropolitan Vitaly?, or would that be edited out as well?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My purpose here is simply for people to be aware of facts, whereas Fr. John's purpose, and now it seems yours as well, is to tell only your version of events, which describe as &amp;quot;mainstream&amp;quot;.  I did not realize that truth or accusation was governed by consensus.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unless Fr. John can provide support for his accusations, such as a mainstream newspaper, I ask that his inflamatory, and self serving accusations regarding other jurisdictions be removed.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia</id>
		<title>Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia"/>
				<updated>2007-12-13T15:26:30Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* The Episcopacy */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{diocese|&lt;br /&gt;
name=Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia|&lt;br /&gt;
jurisdiction=[[Church of Russia|Russia]] |&lt;br /&gt;
type=Semi-autonomous|&lt;br /&gt;
founded=1922|&lt;br /&gt;
bishop=[[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Metr. Laurus]]|&lt;br /&gt;
see=New York|&lt;br /&gt;
hq=New York, New York|&lt;br /&gt;
territory=United States, worldwide|&lt;br /&gt;
language=[[Church Slavonic]], English, German|&lt;br /&gt;
music=[[Russian Chant]]|&lt;br /&gt;
calendar=[[Julian Calendar|Julian]]|&lt;br /&gt;
population=60,000 to 100,000|&lt;br /&gt;
website=[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
The '''Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia''' (also called the ''Russian Orthodox Church Abroad'', ''ROCA'', ''ROCOR'', ''the Karlovsty Synod'', or ''the Synod'') is a semi-[[autonomy|autonomous]] [[jurisdiction]] of the [[Moscow Patriarchate]] originally formed in response against the policy of Bolsheviks with respect to religion in the Soviet Union soon after the Russian Revolution.  The ROCOR exists overlapping with previously existing [[diocese]]s of the Moscow Patriarchate throughout the [[diaspora]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
===Formation and early years===&lt;br /&gt;
In 1920, the Soviet government had revealed that it was quite hostile to the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].  Saint [[Tikhon of Moscow|Tikhon]], Patriarch of Moscow, issued an ''[[Ukaz No. 362|ukaz]]'' (decree) that all Russian Orthodox Christians abroad currently under the authority and protection of his Patriarchate organize and govern themselves independently of the Mother Church, until such time that the Patriarchate would again be free.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among most Russian [[bishop]]s and other hierarchs, this was interpreted as an authorization to form an emergency [[synod]] of all Russian Orthodox hierarchs to permit the Church to continue to function outside Russia and provide spiritual care for nearly three million Russian emigres. To add urgency to the synod's motives, in May of 1922, the Soviet government proclaimed its own &amp;quot;[[Living Church]]&amp;quot; as a &amp;quot;reform&amp;quot; of the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[September 13]], 1922, Russian Orthodox hierarchs in Serbia gave their blessing to the establishment, in Serbia, of a Synod of Bishops of the Russian Church Abroad, the foundation of ROCOR.  In November of 1922, Russian Orthodox in North America held a synod and elected Metropolitan [[Platon (Rozhdestvensky) of New York|Platon]] as the primate of an autonomous Russian exarchate in the Americas (also known as the ''Metropolia'', which eventually became the [[Orthodox Church in America]]).  Although the hierarchs of the Metropolia participated as full equals in the Synod Abroad, eventually a three-way conflict in the United States erupted between the patriarchal exarchate, ROCOR (sometimes known as &amp;quot;the Synod&amp;quot; in this period), and the [[Living Church]], which asserted that it was the legitimate (i.e., Russian-government-recognized) owner of all Orthodox properties in the USA.  (See:  [[ROCOR and OCA]])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===The Church of the Refugees (1922-1991)===&lt;br /&gt;
{{orthodoxyinamerica}}&lt;br /&gt;
In 1927, ROCOR declared &amp;quot;The part of the Russian Church that finds itself abroad considers itself an inseparable, spiritually united branch of the Great Russian Church. It does not separate itself from its Mother Church and does not consider itself autocephalous,&amp;quot; indicating that ROCOR considered itself to speak for all of the Russian Orthodox outside of Russia.  The Church Abroad also considered itself to be the free voice of the enslaved Mother Church in the Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the end of World War II, the [[Church of Russia|Patriarchate of Moscow]] broached the possibility of reunification between Moscow and ROCOR, presumably at the behest of the Soviet government, which had adopted a more conciliatory attitude towards religion during the war and was presumably trying to capitalize on its wartime alliances to win a more respectable position internationally. This was not deemed possible at that time by ROCOR, given that Russia was still under communist dictatorship and the Church was still persecuted and controlled by the atheist authorities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Holy Transfiguration Monastery and ROCOR===&lt;br /&gt;
In the 1960s, ROCOR took under its care [[Holy Transfiguration Monastery (Brookline, Massachusetts)]] (today the principal [[monastery]] of [[HOCNA]]) after the latter had broken communion from the [[Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America]] due to issues of faith.  In 1983 ROCOR adopted the Anathema against ecumenism, which the Holy Transfiguration Monastery still adheres to.  In order to unite with the Moscow Patriarchate, ROCOR has disavowed the Anathema against ecumenism.  Holy Transfiguration Monastery is presently part of HOCNA, and still is guided by ROCOR prior view regarding ecumenism, and the Anathema of 1983.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===After the Soviet fall===&lt;br /&gt;
Since the end of the Soviet Union, ROCOR maintained its independence from the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]] on the grounds that the Church inside Russia had been unacceptably compromised. Some accusations went so far as to claim that the entire hierarchy within Russia were active KGB agents. ROCOR also attempted to set up missions in post-Soviet Russia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This did not prevent all communication, however. For many years there had been unofficial and warm contacts between the two groups.  In 2001, the Synod of the Patriarchate of Moscow and ROCOR exchanged formal correspondence.  The Muscovite letter held the position that previous and current separation was over purely political matters.  ROCOR's response expressed concern over continued Muscovite involvement in [[ecumenism]], which was seen as compromising Moscow's Orthodoxy.  Nevertheless, this was far more friendly  discourse than had been seen previously.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia continued to establish itself in its homeland.  It now has about 100 worshiping communities in Russia and  other countries of the Commonwealth of Independent States. Currently four bishops oversee these parishes.  Two of them broke with Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] in New York in April 1994. They founded their own temporary administration called the ''Free Orthodox Church of Russia'' and ordained three additional bishops.  They were reconciled in November 1994, and the ordination of the three new bishops was declared invalid. However, some tensions remain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Rapprochement with Moscow===&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Laurus alexii signing.jpg|right|250px|thumb|The signing of the Act of Canonical Communion by Patr. Alexey II and Metr. Laurus]]&lt;br /&gt;
Since the election of Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus]] as First Hierarch of ROCOR in 2001, a steady process of rapprochement occurred between ROCOR and the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]].  Multiple official visits have been exchanged between hierarchs and other clergy of both churches, and the date for restoration of [[full communion]] was officially announced by both sides. [http://www.antiochian.org.au/content/view/587/6/]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In October 2001 Patriarch [[Alexei II (Ridiger) of Moscow|Alexei II]] and the [[Holy Synod]] of the Moscow Patriarchate sent a letter to the Bishops' Council of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia calling for reconciliation, but without success.  However, there was mutual recognition of grace in the sacraments of each church.  Then, in November 2003, a delegation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia consisting of three bishops and two priests paid an official visit to the Moscow Patriarchate. This signaled a warming in relations, and in May 2004 for the first time since the foundation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, the First Hierarch of ROCOR, Metropolitan Laurus, visited Moscow and met with Patriarch Alexei.  The two church leaders established a joint committee to examine ways to overcome the division between their churches.  This committee met successfully on several occasions, working out the details of intercommunion between the two Church bodies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This possibility of rapprochement led to a small [[schism]] from ROCOR, taking the self-retired Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] (Metropolitan Laurus's predecessor) with it (regarded by many in ROCOR as having been abducted by the schismatics).  The resultant body refers to itself as the ''[[Russian Orthodox Church in Exile]]'' (ROCE/ROCiE), though it often still uses the ''ROCOR'' name.  A few other communities have also broken off from ROCOR, some joining with Greek [[Old Calendarists|Old Calendarist]] groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[June 21]], 2005, it was announced simultaneously by both the ROCOR and the MP on their respective websites that rapprochement talks were leading toward the resumption of full relations between the ROCOR and the MP and that the ROCOR would be given the status of [[autonomy]].[http://www.mospat.ru/text/e_news/id/9553.html][http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/docs.html]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In May 2006, the ROCOR met in its IV All-Diaspora Council, which was held at Most Holy Theotokos Joy of All Who Sorrow Cathedral in San Francisco, California. The council consisted of clergy and lay delegates from all dioceses of the ROCOR, and adopted a resolution, expressing &amp;quot;great hope that in the appropriate time, the unity of the Russian Church will be restored upon the foundation of the Truth of Christ, opening for us the possibility to serve together and to commune from one Chalice.&amp;quot;[http://www.sobor2006.com/more2.php?id=99_0_3_0_M45] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following the IV All-Diaspora Council, the Council of Bishops of the ROCOR was held. According to sources close to the council, it generally agreed with the text of the proposed &amp;quot;[[Act of Canonical Communion with the Moscow Patriarchate|Act of Canonical Unity]],&amp;quot; but remitted it back to the Committee for Dialogue with the Moscow Patriarchate to rework certain aspects of the document.{{citation}} The exact nature of the elements to be worked out is unclear, but, according to sources close to the Synod of Bishops, involves, among other things, property issues in the Holy Land.{{citation}} &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On September 6, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR decreed their confirmation and approval of the revised Act of Canonical Unity and instructed the Commission on Discussion with the Moscow Patriarchate to work jointly with the Moscow Patriarchate to work out details of the official signing of the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktko.html] Subsequently on September 11, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR published on ROCOR's website a clarification of their decision to confirm and approve the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktexplanantion.html] Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and All Russia acknowledged the work of the commissions and declared that the act of reunification, while moving in the right direction, will take time. [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&amp;amp;div=1977]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia published on their respective websites the final full text of the Act of Canonical Unity [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_akt.html] with all relevant supporting documents [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_addendum.html] [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/11ensummation.html] on November 1, 2006. The Act having been approved by both the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR, it was formally signed in Moscow on May 17, 2007, followed by a concelebration of the Divine Liturgy, bringing the ROCOR into the Moscow Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On July 17, 2007, the Wall Street Journal published a front page article which identified Patriarch Alexei as a KGB agent, with the code name &amp;quot;Agent Drozdov&amp;quot; [http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB118469533202469128-lMyQjAxMDE3ODE0NzYxOTc1Wj.html] The article also published translated documents from the Estonian archives, documenting Agent Drozdov's &amp;quot;energetic&amp;quot; cooperation with the communist government.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===ROCOR Today===&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR currently has over 400 [[parish]]es as well as [[monastery|monasteries]] for men and women in 40 countries throughout the world, served by nearly 600 [[priest]]s.  In North America, it has approximately 133 parishes in the US and 22 in Canada.  There are three ROCOR communities in the United Kingdom and 21 in [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]].  There are also roughly 100 communities which owe allegiance to ROCOR in Russia and the other nations of the former Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are five ROCOR monasteries for men and women in North America, the most important and largest of which is [[Holy Trinity Monastery (Jordanville, New York)]], to which is attached ROCOR's seminary, [[Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary (Jordanville, New York)|Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In concert with the [[Church of Jerusalem]], ROCOR also oversees the [http://www.jerusalem-mission.org/ Russian Ecclesiastical Mission in Jerusalem], headed by Hegumen Andronik (Kotliaroff), which acts as caretaker to three holy sites in Palestine, all of which are monasteries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Ecclesiastical status before 2007==&lt;br /&gt;
Until the reconciliation with Moscow in 2007, the ROCOR was in relative [[Eucharist]]ic isolation from much of the Orthodox world, not always exchanging [[full communion]] with the majority of Orthodox [[jurisdiction]]s.  It maintained good relations, intercommunion, and [[concelebration]] with the [[Church of Serbia]], the [[Church of Jerusalem]], and the [[Church of Sinai]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Before the reconciliation, ROCOR's status with regard to [[full communion]] was not entirely clear-cut.  There was never a formal declaration of a break in communion made between ROCOR and most other Orthodox churches, though in many dioceses [[concelebration]] had been suspended.  In others, concelebration was active. A formal declaration of breaking communion with the OCA was issued by the ROCOR Synod after the Moscow Patriarchate issued the Tomos of Autocephaly to the OCA. (See: [[ROCOR and OCA]].) Generally Orthodox Christians from all local Orthodox churches were welcome to the chalice in ROCOR churches.  There was never a declaration from the ROCOR synod that grace did not exist in the [[New Calendar]] jurisdictions, in spite of statements to the contrary by the followers of Holy Transfiguation Monastery in Boston when they were still with the Synod.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR formerly maintained communion with a few [[Old Calendarist]] jurisdictions, including the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] (True Orthodox Church of Greece, so-called &amp;quot;Cyprianites&amp;quot;), the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Romania]] (Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie), and the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Bulgaria]] (Bishop Photii).  In 2006, communion with the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] was suspended, after the ROCOR Synod received a letter from Metropolitan Cyprian of Oropos and Fili stating that Metropolitan Laurus' name had been &amp;quot;struck from the diptych.&amp;quot; [http://www.synod.com/synod/eng2006/2ensynodmeeting.html] Relations with the Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie and with Bishop Photii of Triaditza were subsequently severed as well.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As of 2007, with the reconciliation with Moscow, the ROCOR is now in communion with [[List of autocephalous and autonomous churches|all of mainstream Orthodoxy]] by virtue of its incorporation into the Moscow Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Episcopacy==&lt;br /&gt;
The Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia currently has 13 [[bishop]]s serving 11 [[diocese]]s throughout the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ruling bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus (Skurla)]] of New York and Eastern America, First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, Ruling Bishop of the Syracuse-Holy Trinity Diocese, ''[[Locum Tenens]]'' of the Eastern part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Alypy (Gamanovich) of Chicago|Alypy (Gamanovich)]] of Chicago and Mid-America&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Mark (Arndt) of Berlin|Mark (Arndt)]] of Berlin, Germany and of Great Britain&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Hilarion (Kapral) of Sydney|Hilarion (Kapral)]] of Sydney, [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Kyrill (Dmitrieff) of San Francisco|Kyrill (Dmitrieff)]] of San Francisco and Western America, Locum Tenens of the Western part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Michael (Donskoff) of Geneva|Michael (Donskoff)]] of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vicar bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Evtikhii (Kurochkin) of Ishim|Evtikhii (Kurochkin)]] of Domodedovo, Patriarchal Vicar for the service of Synodal parishes in Russia&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Daniel (Alexandrow) of Erie|Daniel (Alexandrow)]] of Erie, Vicar of the President of the Synod of Bishops for the service of Old Believers&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Gabriel (Chemodakov) of Manhattan|Gabriel (Chemodakov)]] of Manhattan, Vicar of the Eastern American and New York Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agapit (Gorachek) of Stuttgart|Agapit (Gorachek)]] of Stuttgart, Vicar of the German Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Peter (Loukianoff) of Cleveland|Peter (Loukianoff)]] of Cleveland, Vicar of the Chicago Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Retired bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Ambrose (Cantacuzène) of Geneva|Ambrose (Cantacuzène)]], Retired, formerly of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Varnava (Prokofiev) of Cannes|Varnava (Prokofiev)]], Retired, formerly of Cannes, Vicar for the Western European diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Suspended bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agafangel (Pashkovsky) of Simferopol|Agafangel (Pashkovsky)]], suspended for refusing to accept the union with the MP. Formerly bishop of Odessa and the Crimea.  On May 17, 2007 on the day that ROCOR united with the Moscow Patriarchate, some 100 clergy began broke with Metropolitan Laurus, and began commemerating Bishop Agafangel.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Former bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Alexander (Mileant) of Buenos Aires|Alexander (Mileant)]] of Buenos Aires and South America (reposed [[September 13]], 2005 [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/news05/balexdeath.html])&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Mitrophan (Znosko-Borovsky) of Boston]], reposed February 15, 2002.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[ROCOR and OCA]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/ Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, Russian)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, English)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.roca.org/ ROCA: A collection of Russian Orthodox Materials] (Unofficial site)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/roca_history.aspx History of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad], by St. [[John Maximovitch]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://gnisios.narod.ru/bisrocor.html Bishops of the ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/svassasobor.htm &amp;quot;Glory be to God, Who Did Not Abandon His Church&amp;quot;: The Self-Awareness of ROCOR at the Third All-Diaspora Council of 1974], by Nun Vassa (Larin)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--- * [http://www.pravos.org/index.htm Commission Dialogue Moscow Patriarchate-Church outside Russia] ---&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/voicesofreason.htm Voices of Reason], a collection of articles in response to those who oppose the reconciliation of ROCOR with the MP&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Featured Articles]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Jurisdictions]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Moscow Patriarchate Dioceses]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia</id>
		<title>Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia"/>
				<updated>2007-12-13T15:23:46Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* Holy Transfiguration Monastery and ROCOR */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{diocese|&lt;br /&gt;
name=Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia|&lt;br /&gt;
jurisdiction=[[Church of Russia|Russia]] |&lt;br /&gt;
type=Semi-autonomous|&lt;br /&gt;
founded=1922|&lt;br /&gt;
bishop=[[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Metr. Laurus]]|&lt;br /&gt;
see=New York|&lt;br /&gt;
hq=New York, New York|&lt;br /&gt;
territory=United States, worldwide|&lt;br /&gt;
language=[[Church Slavonic]], English, German|&lt;br /&gt;
music=[[Russian Chant]]|&lt;br /&gt;
calendar=[[Julian Calendar|Julian]]|&lt;br /&gt;
population=60,000 to 100,000|&lt;br /&gt;
website=[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
The '''Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia''' (also called the ''Russian Orthodox Church Abroad'', ''ROCA'', ''ROCOR'', ''the Karlovsty Synod'', or ''the Synod'') is a semi-[[autonomy|autonomous]] [[jurisdiction]] of the [[Moscow Patriarchate]] originally formed in response against the policy of Bolsheviks with respect to religion in the Soviet Union soon after the Russian Revolution.  The ROCOR exists overlapping with previously existing [[diocese]]s of the Moscow Patriarchate throughout the [[diaspora]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
===Formation and early years===&lt;br /&gt;
In 1920, the Soviet government had revealed that it was quite hostile to the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].  Saint [[Tikhon of Moscow|Tikhon]], Patriarch of Moscow, issued an ''[[Ukaz No. 362|ukaz]]'' (decree) that all Russian Orthodox Christians abroad currently under the authority and protection of his Patriarchate organize and govern themselves independently of the Mother Church, until such time that the Patriarchate would again be free.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among most Russian [[bishop]]s and other hierarchs, this was interpreted as an authorization to form an emergency [[synod]] of all Russian Orthodox hierarchs to permit the Church to continue to function outside Russia and provide spiritual care for nearly three million Russian emigres. To add urgency to the synod's motives, in May of 1922, the Soviet government proclaimed its own &amp;quot;[[Living Church]]&amp;quot; as a &amp;quot;reform&amp;quot; of the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[September 13]], 1922, Russian Orthodox hierarchs in Serbia gave their blessing to the establishment, in Serbia, of a Synod of Bishops of the Russian Church Abroad, the foundation of ROCOR.  In November of 1922, Russian Orthodox in North America held a synod and elected Metropolitan [[Platon (Rozhdestvensky) of New York|Platon]] as the primate of an autonomous Russian exarchate in the Americas (also known as the ''Metropolia'', which eventually became the [[Orthodox Church in America]]).  Although the hierarchs of the Metropolia participated as full equals in the Synod Abroad, eventually a three-way conflict in the United States erupted between the patriarchal exarchate, ROCOR (sometimes known as &amp;quot;the Synod&amp;quot; in this period), and the [[Living Church]], which asserted that it was the legitimate (i.e., Russian-government-recognized) owner of all Orthodox properties in the USA.  (See:  [[ROCOR and OCA]])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===The Church of the Refugees (1922-1991)===&lt;br /&gt;
{{orthodoxyinamerica}}&lt;br /&gt;
In 1927, ROCOR declared &amp;quot;The part of the Russian Church that finds itself abroad considers itself an inseparable, spiritually united branch of the Great Russian Church. It does not separate itself from its Mother Church and does not consider itself autocephalous,&amp;quot; indicating that ROCOR considered itself to speak for all of the Russian Orthodox outside of Russia.  The Church Abroad also considered itself to be the free voice of the enslaved Mother Church in the Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the end of World War II, the [[Church of Russia|Patriarchate of Moscow]] broached the possibility of reunification between Moscow and ROCOR, presumably at the behest of the Soviet government, which had adopted a more conciliatory attitude towards religion during the war and was presumably trying to capitalize on its wartime alliances to win a more respectable position internationally. This was not deemed possible at that time by ROCOR, given that Russia was still under communist dictatorship and the Church was still persecuted and controlled by the atheist authorities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Holy Transfiguration Monastery and ROCOR===&lt;br /&gt;
In the 1960s, ROCOR took under its care [[Holy Transfiguration Monastery (Brookline, Massachusetts)]] (today the principal [[monastery]] of [[HOCNA]]) after the latter had broken communion from the [[Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America]] due to issues of faith.  In 1983 ROCOR adopted the Anathema against ecumenism, which the Holy Transfiguration Monastery still adheres to.  In order to unite with the Moscow Patriarchate, ROCOR has disavowed the Anathema against ecumenism.  Holy Transfiguration Monastery is presently part of HOCNA, and still is guided by ROCOR prior view regarding ecumenism, and the Anathema of 1983.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===After the Soviet fall===&lt;br /&gt;
Since the end of the Soviet Union, ROCOR maintained its independence from the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]] on the grounds that the Church inside Russia had been unacceptably compromised. Some accusations went so far as to claim that the entire hierarchy within Russia were active KGB agents. ROCOR also attempted to set up missions in post-Soviet Russia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This did not prevent all communication, however. For many years there had been unofficial and warm contacts between the two groups.  In 2001, the Synod of the Patriarchate of Moscow and ROCOR exchanged formal correspondence.  The Muscovite letter held the position that previous and current separation was over purely political matters.  ROCOR's response expressed concern over continued Muscovite involvement in [[ecumenism]], which was seen as compromising Moscow's Orthodoxy.  Nevertheless, this was far more friendly  discourse than had been seen previously.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia continued to establish itself in its homeland.  It now has about 100 worshiping communities in Russia and  other countries of the Commonwealth of Independent States. Currently four bishops oversee these parishes.  Two of them broke with Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] in New York in April 1994. They founded their own temporary administration called the ''Free Orthodox Church of Russia'' and ordained three additional bishops.  They were reconciled in November 1994, and the ordination of the three new bishops was declared invalid. However, some tensions remain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Rapprochement with Moscow===&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Laurus alexii signing.jpg|right|250px|thumb|The signing of the Act of Canonical Communion by Patr. Alexey II and Metr. Laurus]]&lt;br /&gt;
Since the election of Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus]] as First Hierarch of ROCOR in 2001, a steady process of rapprochement occurred between ROCOR and the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]].  Multiple official visits have been exchanged between hierarchs and other clergy of both churches, and the date for restoration of [[full communion]] was officially announced by both sides. [http://www.antiochian.org.au/content/view/587/6/]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In October 2001 Patriarch [[Alexei II (Ridiger) of Moscow|Alexei II]] and the [[Holy Synod]] of the Moscow Patriarchate sent a letter to the Bishops' Council of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia calling for reconciliation, but without success.  However, there was mutual recognition of grace in the sacraments of each church.  Then, in November 2003, a delegation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia consisting of three bishops and two priests paid an official visit to the Moscow Patriarchate. This signaled a warming in relations, and in May 2004 for the first time since the foundation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, the First Hierarch of ROCOR, Metropolitan Laurus, visited Moscow and met with Patriarch Alexei.  The two church leaders established a joint committee to examine ways to overcome the division between their churches.  This committee met successfully on several occasions, working out the details of intercommunion between the two Church bodies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This possibility of rapprochement led to a small [[schism]] from ROCOR, taking the self-retired Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] (Metropolitan Laurus's predecessor) with it (regarded by many in ROCOR as having been abducted by the schismatics).  The resultant body refers to itself as the ''[[Russian Orthodox Church in Exile]]'' (ROCE/ROCiE), though it often still uses the ''ROCOR'' name.  A few other communities have also broken off from ROCOR, some joining with Greek [[Old Calendarists|Old Calendarist]] groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[June 21]], 2005, it was announced simultaneously by both the ROCOR and the MP on their respective websites that rapprochement talks were leading toward the resumption of full relations between the ROCOR and the MP and that the ROCOR would be given the status of [[autonomy]].[http://www.mospat.ru/text/e_news/id/9553.html][http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/docs.html]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In May 2006, the ROCOR met in its IV All-Diaspora Council, which was held at Most Holy Theotokos Joy of All Who Sorrow Cathedral in San Francisco, California. The council consisted of clergy and lay delegates from all dioceses of the ROCOR, and adopted a resolution, expressing &amp;quot;great hope that in the appropriate time, the unity of the Russian Church will be restored upon the foundation of the Truth of Christ, opening for us the possibility to serve together and to commune from one Chalice.&amp;quot;[http://www.sobor2006.com/more2.php?id=99_0_3_0_M45] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following the IV All-Diaspora Council, the Council of Bishops of the ROCOR was held. According to sources close to the council, it generally agreed with the text of the proposed &amp;quot;[[Act of Canonical Communion with the Moscow Patriarchate|Act of Canonical Unity]],&amp;quot; but remitted it back to the Committee for Dialogue with the Moscow Patriarchate to rework certain aspects of the document.{{citation}} The exact nature of the elements to be worked out is unclear, but, according to sources close to the Synod of Bishops, involves, among other things, property issues in the Holy Land.{{citation}} &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On September 6, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR decreed their confirmation and approval of the revised Act of Canonical Unity and instructed the Commission on Discussion with the Moscow Patriarchate to work jointly with the Moscow Patriarchate to work out details of the official signing of the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktko.html] Subsequently on September 11, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR published on ROCOR's website a clarification of their decision to confirm and approve the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktexplanantion.html] Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and All Russia acknowledged the work of the commissions and declared that the act of reunification, while moving in the right direction, will take time. [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&amp;amp;div=1977]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia published on their respective websites the final full text of the Act of Canonical Unity [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_akt.html] with all relevant supporting documents [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_addendum.html] [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/11ensummation.html] on November 1, 2006. The Act having been approved by both the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR, it was formally signed in Moscow on May 17, 2007, followed by a concelebration of the Divine Liturgy, bringing the ROCOR into the Moscow Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On July 17, 2007, the Wall Street Journal published a front page article which identified Patriarch Alexei as a KGB agent, with the code name &amp;quot;Agent Drozdov&amp;quot; [http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB118469533202469128-lMyQjAxMDE3ODE0NzYxOTc1Wj.html] The article also published translated documents from the Estonian archives, documenting Agent Drozdov's &amp;quot;energetic&amp;quot; cooperation with the communist government.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===ROCOR Today===&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR currently has over 400 [[parish]]es as well as [[monastery|monasteries]] for men and women in 40 countries throughout the world, served by nearly 600 [[priest]]s.  In North America, it has approximately 133 parishes in the US and 22 in Canada.  There are three ROCOR communities in the United Kingdom and 21 in [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]].  There are also roughly 100 communities which owe allegiance to ROCOR in Russia and the other nations of the former Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are five ROCOR monasteries for men and women in North America, the most important and largest of which is [[Holy Trinity Monastery (Jordanville, New York)]], to which is attached ROCOR's seminary, [[Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary (Jordanville, New York)|Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In concert with the [[Church of Jerusalem]], ROCOR also oversees the [http://www.jerusalem-mission.org/ Russian Ecclesiastical Mission in Jerusalem], headed by Hegumen Andronik (Kotliaroff), which acts as caretaker to three holy sites in Palestine, all of which are monasteries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Ecclesiastical status before 2007==&lt;br /&gt;
Until the reconciliation with Moscow in 2007, the ROCOR was in relative [[Eucharist]]ic isolation from much of the Orthodox world, not always exchanging [[full communion]] with the majority of Orthodox [[jurisdiction]]s.  It maintained good relations, intercommunion, and [[concelebration]] with the [[Church of Serbia]], the [[Church of Jerusalem]], and the [[Church of Sinai]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Before the reconciliation, ROCOR's status with regard to [[full communion]] was not entirely clear-cut.  There was never a formal declaration of a break in communion made between ROCOR and most other Orthodox churches, though in many dioceses [[concelebration]] had been suspended.  In others, concelebration was active. A formal declaration of breaking communion with the OCA was issued by the ROCOR Synod after the Moscow Patriarchate issued the Tomos of Autocephaly to the OCA. (See: [[ROCOR and OCA]].) Generally Orthodox Christians from all local Orthodox churches were welcome to the chalice in ROCOR churches.  There was never a declaration from the ROCOR synod that grace did not exist in the [[New Calendar]] jurisdictions, in spite of statements to the contrary by the followers of Holy Transfiguation Monastery in Boston when they were still with the Synod.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR formerly maintained communion with a few [[Old Calendarist]] jurisdictions, including the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] (True Orthodox Church of Greece, so-called &amp;quot;Cyprianites&amp;quot;), the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Romania]] (Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie), and the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Bulgaria]] (Bishop Photii).  In 2006, communion with the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] was suspended, after the ROCOR Synod received a letter from Metropolitan Cyprian of Oropos and Fili stating that Metropolitan Laurus' name had been &amp;quot;struck from the diptych.&amp;quot; [http://www.synod.com/synod/eng2006/2ensynodmeeting.html] Relations with the Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie and with Bishop Photii of Triaditza were subsequently severed as well.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As of 2007, with the reconciliation with Moscow, the ROCOR is now in communion with [[List of autocephalous and autonomous churches|all of mainstream Orthodoxy]] by virtue of its incorporation into the Moscow Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Episcopacy==&lt;br /&gt;
The Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia currently has 13 [[bishop]]s serving 11 [[diocese]]s throughout the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ruling bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus (Skurla)]] of New York and Eastern America, First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, Ruling Bishop of the Syracuse-Holy Trinity Diocese, ''[[Locum Tenens]]'' of the Eastern part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Alypy (Gamanovich) of Chicago|Alypy (Gamanovich)]] of Chicago and Mid-America&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Mark (Arndt) of Berlin|Mark (Arndt)]] of Berlin, Germany and of Great Britain&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Hilarion (Kapral) of Sydney|Hilarion (Kapral)]] of Sydney, [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Kyrill (Dmitrieff) of San Francisco|Kyrill (Dmitrieff)]] of San Francisco and Western America, Locum Tenens of the Western part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Michael (Donskoff) of Geneva|Michael (Donskoff)]] of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vicar bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Evtikhii (Kurochkin) of Ishim|Evtikhii (Kurochkin)]] of Domodedovo, Patriarchal Vicar for the service of Synodal parishes in Russia&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Daniel (Alexandrow) of Erie|Daniel (Alexandrow)]] of Erie, Vicar of the President of the Synod of Bishops for the service of Old Believers&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Gabriel (Chemodakov) of Manhattan|Gabriel (Chemodakov)]] of Manhattan, Vicar of the Eastern American and New York Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agapit (Gorachek) of Stuttgart|Agapit (Gorachek)]] of Stuttgart, Vicar of the German Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Peter (Loukianoff) of Cleveland|Peter (Loukianoff)]] of Cleveland, Vicar of the Chicago Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Retired bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Ambrose (Cantacuzène) of Geneva|Ambrose (Cantacuzène)]], Retired, formerly of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Varnava (Prokofiev) of Cannes|Varnava (Prokofiev)]], Retired, formerly of Cannes, Vicar for the Western European diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Suspended bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agafangel (Pashkovsky) of Simferopol|Agafangel (Pashkovsky)]], suspended. Formerly bishop of Odessa and the Crimea&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Former bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Alexander (Mileant) of Buenos Aires|Alexander (Mileant)]] of Buenos Aires and South America (reposed [[September 13]], 2005 [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/news05/balexdeath.html])&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Mitrophan (Znosko-Borovsky) of Boston]], reposed February 15, 2002.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[ROCOR and OCA]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/ Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, Russian)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, English)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.roca.org/ ROCA: A collection of Russian Orthodox Materials] (Unofficial site)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/roca_history.aspx History of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad], by St. [[John Maximovitch]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://gnisios.narod.ru/bisrocor.html Bishops of the ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/svassasobor.htm &amp;quot;Glory be to God, Who Did Not Abandon His Church&amp;quot;: The Self-Awareness of ROCOR at the Third All-Diaspora Council of 1974], by Nun Vassa (Larin)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--- * [http://www.pravos.org/index.htm Commission Dialogue Moscow Patriarchate-Church outside Russia] ---&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/voicesofreason.htm Voices of Reason], a collection of articles in response to those who oppose the reconciliation of ROCOR with the MP&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Featured Articles]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Jurisdictions]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Moscow Patriarchate Dioceses]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia</id>
		<title>Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia"/>
				<updated>2007-12-13T15:15:03Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* Rapprochement with Moscow */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{diocese|&lt;br /&gt;
name=Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia|&lt;br /&gt;
jurisdiction=[[Church of Russia|Russia]] |&lt;br /&gt;
type=Semi-autonomous|&lt;br /&gt;
founded=1922|&lt;br /&gt;
bishop=[[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Metr. Laurus]]|&lt;br /&gt;
see=New York|&lt;br /&gt;
hq=New York, New York|&lt;br /&gt;
territory=United States, worldwide|&lt;br /&gt;
language=[[Church Slavonic]], English, German|&lt;br /&gt;
music=[[Russian Chant]]|&lt;br /&gt;
calendar=[[Julian Calendar|Julian]]|&lt;br /&gt;
population=60,000 to 100,000|&lt;br /&gt;
website=[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
The '''Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia''' (also called the ''Russian Orthodox Church Abroad'', ''ROCA'', ''ROCOR'', ''the Karlovsty Synod'', or ''the Synod'') is a semi-[[autonomy|autonomous]] [[jurisdiction]] of the [[Moscow Patriarchate]] originally formed in response against the policy of Bolsheviks with respect to religion in the Soviet Union soon after the Russian Revolution.  The ROCOR exists overlapping with previously existing [[diocese]]s of the Moscow Patriarchate throughout the [[diaspora]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
===Formation and early years===&lt;br /&gt;
In 1920, the Soviet government had revealed that it was quite hostile to the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].  Saint [[Tikhon of Moscow|Tikhon]], Patriarch of Moscow, issued an ''[[Ukaz No. 362|ukaz]]'' (decree) that all Russian Orthodox Christians abroad currently under the authority and protection of his Patriarchate organize and govern themselves independently of the Mother Church, until such time that the Patriarchate would again be free.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among most Russian [[bishop]]s and other hierarchs, this was interpreted as an authorization to form an emergency [[synod]] of all Russian Orthodox hierarchs to permit the Church to continue to function outside Russia and provide spiritual care for nearly three million Russian emigres. To add urgency to the synod's motives, in May of 1922, the Soviet government proclaimed its own &amp;quot;[[Living Church]]&amp;quot; as a &amp;quot;reform&amp;quot; of the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[September 13]], 1922, Russian Orthodox hierarchs in Serbia gave their blessing to the establishment, in Serbia, of a Synod of Bishops of the Russian Church Abroad, the foundation of ROCOR.  In November of 1922, Russian Orthodox in North America held a synod and elected Metropolitan [[Platon (Rozhdestvensky) of New York|Platon]] as the primate of an autonomous Russian exarchate in the Americas (also known as the ''Metropolia'', which eventually became the [[Orthodox Church in America]]).  Although the hierarchs of the Metropolia participated as full equals in the Synod Abroad, eventually a three-way conflict in the United States erupted between the patriarchal exarchate, ROCOR (sometimes known as &amp;quot;the Synod&amp;quot; in this period), and the [[Living Church]], which asserted that it was the legitimate (i.e., Russian-government-recognized) owner of all Orthodox properties in the USA.  (See:  [[ROCOR and OCA]])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===The Church of the Refugees (1922-1991)===&lt;br /&gt;
{{orthodoxyinamerica}}&lt;br /&gt;
In 1927, ROCOR declared &amp;quot;The part of the Russian Church that finds itself abroad considers itself an inseparable, spiritually united branch of the Great Russian Church. It does not separate itself from its Mother Church and does not consider itself autocephalous,&amp;quot; indicating that ROCOR considered itself to speak for all of the Russian Orthodox outside of Russia.  The Church Abroad also considered itself to be the free voice of the enslaved Mother Church in the Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the end of World War II, the [[Church of Russia|Patriarchate of Moscow]] broached the possibility of reunification between Moscow and ROCOR, presumably at the behest of the Soviet government, which had adopted a more conciliatory attitude towards religion during the war and was presumably trying to capitalize on its wartime alliances to win a more respectable position internationally. This was not deemed possible at that time by ROCOR, given that Russia was still under communist dictatorship and the Church was still persecuted and controlled by the atheist authorities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Holy Transfiguration Monastery and ROCOR===&lt;br /&gt;
In the 1960s, ROCOR took under its care [[Holy Transfiguration Monastery (Brookline, Massachusetts)]] (today the principal [[monastery]] of [[HOCNA]]) after the latter had broken communion from the [[Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America]] following sexual abuse scandals regarding the monastery's leadership.  At some point later, they gradually assumed responsibility for much of ROCOR's external communications and publications. (The monks of Holy Transfiguration were English-speaking and the ROCOR bishops in America mainly were not.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is believed by many that the allegedly sectarian spirit of ROCOR came into its flowering during this time and under the influence of this monastery, which frequently misrepresented the official policies and views of the Synod of Bishops.  In the early 1980s the hierarchs of the Synod began to correct and censor the narrow-minded and incorrect views of the followers of Holy Transfiguration Monastery.  Subsequently this group broke communion with ROCOR (again regarding allegations of sexual abuse by the monastery's leadership), styling themselves the [[HOCNA|Holy Orthodox Church in North America]] (HOCNA).  They became affiliated with the [[True Orthodox Church of Greece]], a Greek Old Calendarist group which broke from the [[Church of Greece]].  According to Fr. Alexey Young (author of ''The Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia: A History and Chronology''), the association of ROCOR and Holy Transfiguration Monastery resulted in deep damage to ROCOR.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===After the Soviet fall===&lt;br /&gt;
Since the end of the Soviet Union, ROCOR maintained its independence from the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]] on the grounds that the Church inside Russia had been unacceptably compromised. Some accusations went so far as to claim that the entire hierarchy within Russia were active KGB agents. ROCOR also attempted to set up missions in post-Soviet Russia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This did not prevent all communication, however. For many years there had been unofficial and warm contacts between the two groups.  In 2001, the Synod of the Patriarchate of Moscow and ROCOR exchanged formal correspondence.  The Muscovite letter held the position that previous and current separation was over purely political matters.  ROCOR's response expressed concern over continued Muscovite involvement in [[ecumenism]], which was seen as compromising Moscow's Orthodoxy.  Nevertheless, this was far more friendly  discourse than had been seen previously.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia continued to establish itself in its homeland.  It now has about 100 worshiping communities in Russia and  other countries of the Commonwealth of Independent States. Currently four bishops oversee these parishes.  Two of them broke with Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] in New York in April 1994. They founded their own temporary administration called the ''Free Orthodox Church of Russia'' and ordained three additional bishops.  They were reconciled in November 1994, and the ordination of the three new bishops was declared invalid. However, some tensions remain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Rapprochement with Moscow===&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Laurus alexii signing.jpg|right|250px|thumb|The signing of the Act of Canonical Communion by Patr. Alexey II and Metr. Laurus]]&lt;br /&gt;
Since the election of Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus]] as First Hierarch of ROCOR in 2001, a steady process of rapprochement occurred between ROCOR and the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]].  Multiple official visits have been exchanged between hierarchs and other clergy of both churches, and the date for restoration of [[full communion]] was officially announced by both sides. [http://www.antiochian.org.au/content/view/587/6/]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In October 2001 Patriarch [[Alexei II (Ridiger) of Moscow|Alexei II]] and the [[Holy Synod]] of the Moscow Patriarchate sent a letter to the Bishops' Council of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia calling for reconciliation, but without success.  However, there was mutual recognition of grace in the sacraments of each church.  Then, in November 2003, a delegation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia consisting of three bishops and two priests paid an official visit to the Moscow Patriarchate. This signaled a warming in relations, and in May 2004 for the first time since the foundation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, the First Hierarch of ROCOR, Metropolitan Laurus, visited Moscow and met with Patriarch Alexei.  The two church leaders established a joint committee to examine ways to overcome the division between their churches.  This committee met successfully on several occasions, working out the details of intercommunion between the two Church bodies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This possibility of rapprochement led to a small [[schism]] from ROCOR, taking the self-retired Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] (Metropolitan Laurus's predecessor) with it (regarded by many in ROCOR as having been abducted by the schismatics).  The resultant body refers to itself as the ''[[Russian Orthodox Church in Exile]]'' (ROCE/ROCiE), though it often still uses the ''ROCOR'' name.  A few other communities have also broken off from ROCOR, some joining with Greek [[Old Calendarists|Old Calendarist]] groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[June 21]], 2005, it was announced simultaneously by both the ROCOR and the MP on their respective websites that rapprochement talks were leading toward the resumption of full relations between the ROCOR and the MP and that the ROCOR would be given the status of [[autonomy]].[http://www.mospat.ru/text/e_news/id/9553.html][http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/docs.html]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In May 2006, the ROCOR met in its IV All-Diaspora Council, which was held at Most Holy Theotokos Joy of All Who Sorrow Cathedral in San Francisco, California. The council consisted of clergy and lay delegates from all dioceses of the ROCOR, and adopted a resolution, expressing &amp;quot;great hope that in the appropriate time, the unity of the Russian Church will be restored upon the foundation of the Truth of Christ, opening for us the possibility to serve together and to commune from one Chalice.&amp;quot;[http://www.sobor2006.com/more2.php?id=99_0_3_0_M45] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following the IV All-Diaspora Council, the Council of Bishops of the ROCOR was held. According to sources close to the council, it generally agreed with the text of the proposed &amp;quot;[[Act of Canonical Communion with the Moscow Patriarchate|Act of Canonical Unity]],&amp;quot; but remitted it back to the Committee for Dialogue with the Moscow Patriarchate to rework certain aspects of the document.{{citation}} The exact nature of the elements to be worked out is unclear, but, according to sources close to the Synod of Bishops, involves, among other things, property issues in the Holy Land.{{citation}} &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On September 6, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR decreed their confirmation and approval of the revised Act of Canonical Unity and instructed the Commission on Discussion with the Moscow Patriarchate to work jointly with the Moscow Patriarchate to work out details of the official signing of the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktko.html] Subsequently on September 11, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR published on ROCOR's website a clarification of their decision to confirm and approve the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktexplanantion.html] Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and All Russia acknowledged the work of the commissions and declared that the act of reunification, while moving in the right direction, will take time. [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&amp;amp;div=1977]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia published on their respective websites the final full text of the Act of Canonical Unity [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_akt.html] with all relevant supporting documents [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_addendum.html] [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/11ensummation.html] on November 1, 2006. The Act having been approved by both the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR, it was formally signed in Moscow on May 17, 2007, followed by a concelebration of the Divine Liturgy, bringing the ROCOR into the Moscow Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On July 17, 2007, the Wall Street Journal published a front page article which identified Patriarch Alexei as a KGB agent, with the code name &amp;quot;Agent Drozdov&amp;quot; [http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB118469533202469128-lMyQjAxMDE3ODE0NzYxOTc1Wj.html] The article also published translated documents from the Estonian archives, documenting Agent Drozdov's &amp;quot;energetic&amp;quot; cooperation with the communist government.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===ROCOR Today===&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR currently has over 400 [[parish]]es as well as [[monastery|monasteries]] for men and women in 40 countries throughout the world, served by nearly 600 [[priest]]s.  In North America, it has approximately 133 parishes in the US and 22 in Canada.  There are three ROCOR communities in the United Kingdom and 21 in [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]].  There are also roughly 100 communities which owe allegiance to ROCOR in Russia and the other nations of the former Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are five ROCOR monasteries for men and women in North America, the most important and largest of which is [[Holy Trinity Monastery (Jordanville, New York)]], to which is attached ROCOR's seminary, [[Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary (Jordanville, New York)|Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In concert with the [[Church of Jerusalem]], ROCOR also oversees the [http://www.jerusalem-mission.org/ Russian Ecclesiastical Mission in Jerusalem], headed by Hegumen Andronik (Kotliaroff), which acts as caretaker to three holy sites in Palestine, all of which are monasteries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Ecclesiastical status before 2007==&lt;br /&gt;
Until the reconciliation with Moscow in 2007, the ROCOR was in relative [[Eucharist]]ic isolation from much of the Orthodox world, not always exchanging [[full communion]] with the majority of Orthodox [[jurisdiction]]s.  It maintained good relations, intercommunion, and [[concelebration]] with the [[Church of Serbia]], the [[Church of Jerusalem]], and the [[Church of Sinai]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Before the reconciliation, ROCOR's status with regard to [[full communion]] was not entirely clear-cut.  There was never a formal declaration of a break in communion made between ROCOR and most other Orthodox churches, though in many dioceses [[concelebration]] had been suspended.  In others, concelebration was active. A formal declaration of breaking communion with the OCA was issued by the ROCOR Synod after the Moscow Patriarchate issued the Tomos of Autocephaly to the OCA. (See: [[ROCOR and OCA]].) Generally Orthodox Christians from all local Orthodox churches were welcome to the chalice in ROCOR churches.  There was never a declaration from the ROCOR synod that grace did not exist in the [[New Calendar]] jurisdictions, in spite of statements to the contrary by the followers of Holy Transfiguation Monastery in Boston when they were still with the Synod.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR formerly maintained communion with a few [[Old Calendarist]] jurisdictions, including the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] (True Orthodox Church of Greece, so-called &amp;quot;Cyprianites&amp;quot;), the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Romania]] (Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie), and the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Bulgaria]] (Bishop Photii).  In 2006, communion with the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] was suspended, after the ROCOR Synod received a letter from Metropolitan Cyprian of Oropos and Fili stating that Metropolitan Laurus' name had been &amp;quot;struck from the diptych.&amp;quot; [http://www.synod.com/synod/eng2006/2ensynodmeeting.html] Relations with the Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie and with Bishop Photii of Triaditza were subsequently severed as well.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As of 2007, with the reconciliation with Moscow, the ROCOR is now in communion with [[List of autocephalous and autonomous churches|all of mainstream Orthodoxy]] by virtue of its incorporation into the Moscow Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Episcopacy==&lt;br /&gt;
The Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia currently has 13 [[bishop]]s serving 11 [[diocese]]s throughout the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ruling bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus (Skurla)]] of New York and Eastern America, First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, Ruling Bishop of the Syracuse-Holy Trinity Diocese, ''[[Locum Tenens]]'' of the Eastern part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Alypy (Gamanovich) of Chicago|Alypy (Gamanovich)]] of Chicago and Mid-America&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Mark (Arndt) of Berlin|Mark (Arndt)]] of Berlin, Germany and of Great Britain&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Hilarion (Kapral) of Sydney|Hilarion (Kapral)]] of Sydney, [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Kyrill (Dmitrieff) of San Francisco|Kyrill (Dmitrieff)]] of San Francisco and Western America, Locum Tenens of the Western part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Michael (Donskoff) of Geneva|Michael (Donskoff)]] of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vicar bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Evtikhii (Kurochkin) of Ishim|Evtikhii (Kurochkin)]] of Domodedovo, Patriarchal Vicar for the service of Synodal parishes in Russia&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Daniel (Alexandrow) of Erie|Daniel (Alexandrow)]] of Erie, Vicar of the President of the Synod of Bishops for the service of Old Believers&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Gabriel (Chemodakov) of Manhattan|Gabriel (Chemodakov)]] of Manhattan, Vicar of the Eastern American and New York Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agapit (Gorachek) of Stuttgart|Agapit (Gorachek)]] of Stuttgart, Vicar of the German Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Peter (Loukianoff) of Cleveland|Peter (Loukianoff)]] of Cleveland, Vicar of the Chicago Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Retired bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Ambrose (Cantacuzène) of Geneva|Ambrose (Cantacuzène)]], Retired, formerly of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Varnava (Prokofiev) of Cannes|Varnava (Prokofiev)]], Retired, formerly of Cannes, Vicar for the Western European diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Suspended bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agafangel (Pashkovsky) of Simferopol|Agafangel (Pashkovsky)]], suspended. Formerly bishop of Odessa and the Crimea&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Former bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Alexander (Mileant) of Buenos Aires|Alexander (Mileant)]] of Buenos Aires and South America (reposed [[September 13]], 2005 [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/news05/balexdeath.html])&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Mitrophan (Znosko-Borovsky) of Boston]], reposed February 15, 2002.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[ROCOR and OCA]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/ Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, Russian)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, English)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.roca.org/ ROCA: A collection of Russian Orthodox Materials] (Unofficial site)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/roca_history.aspx History of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad], by St. [[John Maximovitch]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://gnisios.narod.ru/bisrocor.html Bishops of the ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/svassasobor.htm &amp;quot;Glory be to God, Who Did Not Abandon His Church&amp;quot;: The Self-Awareness of ROCOR at the Third All-Diaspora Council of 1974], by Nun Vassa (Larin)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--- * [http://www.pravos.org/index.htm Commission Dialogue Moscow Patriarchate-Church outside Russia] ---&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/voicesofreason.htm Voices of Reason], a collection of articles in response to those who oppose the reconciliation of ROCOR with the MP&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Featured Articles]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Jurisdictions]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Moscow Patriarchate Dioceses]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:Samson1957</id>
		<title>User talk:Samson1957</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:Samson1957"/>
				<updated>2007-12-13T15:11:16Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* ROCOR article */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{Welcome}} —[[User:Magda|&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;magda&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 13:53, November 6, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== [[ROCOR]] article ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hello!  Thanks for your contributions to the [[ROCOR]] article, but they're not in keeping with the [[OW:SM|OrthodoxWiki Style Manual]], most specifically the [[OW:MCB|Mainstream Chalcedonian Bias]].  HOCNA's version of events (which seems to be what's guiding your edits) generally falls outside that mainstream, as I'm sure you're aware.  Please follow the site's policies.  Thank you!  &amp;amp;mdash;[[User:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3.5&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;green&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Fr. Andrew&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;red&amp;quot;&amp;gt;talk&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;contribs&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 20:55, December 12, 2007 (PST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thank you for your note, however you are not correct.  There has never been any allegation that HOCNA left the greek archdiocese due to sexual scandal.  While a sexual scadal has been alleged against HOCNA while they were part of ROCOR, there is no support for that which Fr. John is posting.  His post is not footnoted or supported.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My second edit, referencing that the current patriarch was a KGB agaent is supported by a front page Wall Street Journal article, which I linked.  Hiding from that truth, does not undo the truth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Fr. John can support his allegation in the first instance, then so be it.  He cannot, and therefore did not reference a source.  If Fr. John is upset that ROCOR's chief bishop was a government agent, that does not change the fact that it was reported and documented in a mainstream newspaper.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I stand by the edits.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thank you&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nat&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia</id>
		<title>Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia"/>
				<updated>2007-12-12T21:02:52Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* Rapprochement with Moscow */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{diocese|&lt;br /&gt;
name=Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia|&lt;br /&gt;
jurisdiction=[[Church of Russia|Russia]] |&lt;br /&gt;
type=Semi-autonomous|&lt;br /&gt;
founded=1922|&lt;br /&gt;
bishop=[[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Metr. Laurus]]|&lt;br /&gt;
see=New York|&lt;br /&gt;
hq=New York, New York|&lt;br /&gt;
territory=United States, worldwide|&lt;br /&gt;
language=[[Church Slavonic]], English, German|&lt;br /&gt;
music=[[Russian Chant]]|&lt;br /&gt;
calendar=[[Julian Calendar|Julian]]|&lt;br /&gt;
population=60,000 to 100,000|&lt;br /&gt;
website=[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
The '''Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia''' (also called the ''Russian Orthodox Church Abroad'', ''ROCA'', ''ROCOR'', ''the Karlovsty Synod'', or ''the Synod'') is a semi-[[autonomy|autonomous]] [[jurisdiction]] of the [[Moscow Patriarchate]] originally formed in response against the policy of Bolsheviks with respect to religion in the Soviet Union soon after the Russian Revolution.  The ROCOR exists overlapping with previously existing [[diocese]]s of the Moscow Patriarchate throughout the [[diaspora]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
===Formation and early years===&lt;br /&gt;
In 1920, the Soviet government had revealed that it was quite hostile to the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].  Saint [[Tikhon of Moscow|Tikhon]], Patriarch of Moscow, issued an ''[[Ukaz No. 362|ukaz]]'' (decree) that all Russian Orthodox Christians abroad currently under the authority and protection of his Patriarchate organize and govern themselves independently of the Mother Church, until such time that the Patriarchate would again be free.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among most Russian [[bishop]]s and other hierarchs, this was interpreted as an authorization to form an emergency [[synod]] of all Russian Orthodox hierarchs to permit the Church to continue to function outside Russia and provide spiritual care for nearly three million Russian emigres. To add urgency to the synod's motives, in May of 1922, the Soviet government proclaimed its own &amp;quot;[[Living Church]]&amp;quot; as a &amp;quot;reform&amp;quot; of the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[September 13]], 1922, Russian Orthodox hierarchs in Serbia gave their blessing to the establishment, in Serbia, of a Synod of Bishops of the Russian Church Abroad, the foundation of ROCOR.  In November of 1922, Russian Orthodox in North America held a synod and elected Metropolitan [[Platon (Rozhdestvensky) of New York|Platon]] as the primate of an autonomous Russian exarchate in the Americas (also known as the ''Metropolia'', which eventually became the [[Orthodox Church in America]]).  Although the hierarchs of the Metropolia participated as full equals in the Synod Abroad, eventually a three-way conflict in the United States erupted between the patriarchal exarchate, ROCOR (sometimes known as &amp;quot;the Synod&amp;quot; in this period), and the [[Living Church]], which asserted that it was the legitimate (i.e., Russian-government-recognized) owner of all Orthodox properties in the USA.  (See:  [[ROCOR and OCA]])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===The Church of the Refugees (1922-1991)===&lt;br /&gt;
{{orthodoxyinamerica}}&lt;br /&gt;
In 1927, ROCOR declared &amp;quot;The part of the Russian Church that finds itself abroad considers itself an inseparable, spiritually united branch of the Great Russian Church. It does not separate itself from its Mother Church and does not consider itself autocephalous,&amp;quot; indicating that ROCOR considered itself to speak for all of the Russian Orthodox outside of Russia.  The Church Abroad also considered itself to be the free voice of the enslaved Mother Church in the Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the end of World War II, the [[Church of Russia|Patriarchate of Moscow]] broached the possibility of reunification between Moscow and ROCOR, presumably at the behest of the Soviet government, which had adopted a more conciliatory attitude towards religion during the war and was presumably trying to capitalize on its wartime alliances to win a more respectable position internationally. This was not deemed possible at that time by ROCOR, given that Russia was still under communist dictatorship and the Church was still persecuted and controlled by the atheist authorities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Holy Transfiguration Monastery and ROCOR===&lt;br /&gt;
In the 1960s, ROCOR took under its care [[Holy Transfiguration Monastery (Brookline, Massachusetts)]] (today the principal [[monastery]] of [[HOCNA]]) after the latter had broken communion from the [[Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America]] due to its ecumenical leanings. At some point later, they gradually assumed responsibility for much of ROCOR's external communications and publications. (The monks of Holy Transfiguration were English-speaking and the ROCOR bishops in America mainly were not.) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The monastery represented the traditional views of Orthodoxy, which were not always embraced by ROCOR. In 1983, ROCOR anathamatized the heresy of ecumenism. Due to issues of faith and ecclesiology, Holy Transfiguration Monastery broke communion with ROCOR after the repose of Metropolitan Philaret.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===After the Soviet fall===&lt;br /&gt;
Since the end of the Soviet Union, ROCOR maintained its independence from the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]] on the grounds that the Church inside Russia had been unacceptably compromised. Some accusations went so far as to claim that the entire hierarchy within Russia were active KGB agents. ROCOR also attempted to set up missions in post-Soviet Russia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This did not prevent all communication, however. For many years there had been unofficial and warm contacts between the two groups.  In 2001, the Synod of the Patriarchate of Moscow and ROCOR exchanged formal correspondence.  The Muscovite letter held the position that previous and current separation was over purely political matters.  ROCOR's response expressed concern over continued Muscovite involvement in [[ecumenism]], which was seen as compromising Moscow's Orthodoxy.  Nevertheless, this was far more friendly  discourse than had been seen previously.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia continued to establish itself in its homeland.  It now has about 100 worshiping communities in Russia and  other countries of the Commonwealth of Independent States. Currently four bishops oversee these parishes.  Two of them broke with Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] in New York in April 1994. They founded their own temporary administration called the ''Free Orthodox Church of Russia'' and ordained three additional bishops.  They were reconciled in November 1994, and the ordination of the three new bishops was declared invalid. However, some tensions remain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Rapprochement with Moscow===&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Laurus alexii signing.jpg|right|250px|thumb|The signing of the Act of Canonical Communion by Patr. Alexey II and Metr. Laurus]]&lt;br /&gt;
Since the election of Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus]] as First Hierarch of ROCOR in 2001, a steady process of rapprochement occurred between ROCOR and the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]].  Multiple official visits have been exchanged between hierarchs and other clergy of both churches, and the date for restoration of [[full communion]] was officially announced by both sides. [http://www.antiochian.org.au/content/view/587/6/]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In October 2001 Patriarch [[Alexei II (Ridiger) of Moscow|Alexei II]] and the [[Holy Synod]] of the Moscow Patriarchate sent a letter to the Bishops' Council of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia calling for reconciliation, but without success.  However, there was mutual recognition of grace in the sacraments of each church.  Then, in November 2003, a delegation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia consisting of three bishops and two priests paid an official visit to the Moscow Patriarchate. This signaled a warming in relations, and in May 2004 for the first time since the foundation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, the First Hierarch of ROCOR, Metropolitan Laurus, visited Moscow and met with Patriarch Alexei.  The two church leaders established a joint committee to examine ways to overcome the division between their churches.  This committee met successfully on several occasions, working out the details of intercommunion between the two Church bodies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This possibility of rapprochement led to a small [[schism]] from ROCOR, taking the self-retired Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] (Metropolitan Laurus's predecessor) with it (regarded by many in ROCOR as having been abducted by the schismatics).  The resultant body refers to itself as the ''[[Russian Orthodox Church in Exile]]'' (ROCE/ROCiE), though it often still uses the ''ROCOR'' name.  A few other communities have also broken off from ROCOR, some joining with Greek [[Old Calendarists|Old Calendarist]] groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[June 21]], 2005, it was announced simultaneously by both the ROCOR and the MP on their respective websites that rapprochement talks were leading toward the resumption of full relations between the ROCOR and the MP and that the ROCOR would be given the status of [[autonomy]].[http://www.mospat.ru/text/e_news/id/9553.html][http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/docs.html]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In May 2006, the ROCOR met in its IV All-Diaspora Council, which was held at Most Holy Theotokos Joy of All Who Sorrow Cathedral in San Francisco, California. The council consisted of clergy and lay delegates from all dioceses of the ROCOR, and adopted a resolution, expressing &amp;quot;great hope that in the appropriate time, the unity of the Russian Church will be restored upon the foundation of the Truth of Christ, opening for us the possibility to serve together and to commune from one Chalice.&amp;quot;[http://www.sobor2006.com/more2.php?id=99_0_3_0_M45] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following the IV All-Diaspora Council, the Council of Bishops of the ROCOR was held. According to sources close to the council, it generally agreed with the text of the proposed &amp;quot;[[Act of Canonical Communion with the Moscow Patriarchate|Act of Canonical Unity]],&amp;quot; but remitted it back to the Committee for Dialogue with the Moscow Patriarchate to rework certain aspects of the document.{{citation}} The exact nature of the elements to be worked out is unclear, but, according to sources close to the Synod of Bishops, involves, among other things, property issues in the Holy Land.{{citation}} &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On September 6, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR decreed their confirmation and approval of the revised Act of Canonical Unity and instructed the Commission on Discussion with the Moscow Patriarchate to work jointly with the Moscow Patriarchate to work out details of the official signing of the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktko.html] Subsequently on September 11, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR published on ROCOR's website a clarification of their decision to confirm and approve the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktexplanantion.html] Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and All Russia acknowledged the work of the commissions and declared that the act of reunification, while moving in the right direction, will take time. [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&amp;amp;div=1977]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia published on their respective websites the final full text of the Act of Canonical Unity [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_akt.html] with all relevant supporting documents [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_addendum.html] [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/11ensummation.html] on November 1, 2006. The Act having been approved by both the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR, it was formally signed in Moscow on May 17, 2007, followed by a concelebration of the Divine Liturgy, bringing the ROCOR into the Moscow Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On July 17, 2007, the Wall Street Journal published a front page article which identified Patriarch Alexei as a KGB agent, with the code name &amp;quot;Agent Drozdov&amp;quot; [http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB118469533202469128-lMyQjAxMDE3ODE0NzYxOTc1Wj.html] The article also published translated documents from the Estonian archives, documenting Agent Drozdov's &amp;quot;energetic&amp;quot; cooperation with the communist government.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===ROCOR Today===&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR currently has over 400 [[parish]]es as well as [[monastery|monasteries]] for men and women in 40 countries throughout the world, served by nearly 600 [[priest]]s.  In North America, it has approximately 133 parishes in the US and 22 in Canada.  There are three ROCOR communities in the United Kingdom and 21 in [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]].  There are also roughly 100 communities which owe allegiance to ROCOR in Russia and the other nations of the former Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are five ROCOR monasteries for men and women in North America, the most important and largest of which is [[Holy Trinity Monastery (Jordanville, New York)]], to which is attached ROCOR's seminary, [[Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary (Jordanville, New York)|Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In concert with the [[Church of Jerusalem]], ROCOR also oversees the [http://www.jerusalem-mission.org/ Russian Ecclesiastical Mission in Jerusalem], headed by Hegumen Andronik (Kotliaroff), which acts as caretaker to three holy sites in Palestine, all of which are monasteries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Ecclesiastical status before 2007==&lt;br /&gt;
Until the reconciliation with Moscow in 2007, the ROCOR was in relative [[Eucharist]]ic isolation from much of the Orthodox world, not always exchanging [[full communion]] with the majority of Orthodox [[jurisdiction]]s.  It maintained good relations, intercommunion, and [[concelebration]] with the [[Church of Serbia]], the [[Church of Jerusalem]], and the [[Church of Sinai]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Before the reconciliation, ROCOR's status with regard to [[full communion]] was not entirely clear-cut.  There was never a formal declaration of a break in communion made between ROCOR and most other Orthodox churches, though in many dioceses [[concelebration]] had been suspended.  In others, concelebration was active. A formal declaration of breaking communion with the OCA was issued by the ROCOR Synod after the Moscow Patriarchate issued the Tomos of Autocephaly to the OCA. (See: [[ROCOR and OCA]].) Generally Orthodox Christians from all local Orthodox churches were welcome to the chalice in ROCOR churches.  There was never a declaration from the ROCOR synod that grace did not exist in the [[New Calendar]] jurisdictions, in spite of statements to the contrary by the followers of Holy Transfiguation Monastery in Boston when they were still with the Synod.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR formerly maintained communion with a few [[Old Calendarist]] jurisdictions, including the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] (True Orthodox Church of Greece, so-called &amp;quot;Cyprianites&amp;quot;), the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Romania]] (Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie), and the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Bulgaria]] (Bishop Photii).  In 2006, communion with the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] was suspended, after the ROCOR Synod received a letter from Metropolitan Cyprian of Oropos and Fili stating that Metropolitan Laurus' name had been &amp;quot;struck from the diptych.&amp;quot; [http://www.synod.com/synod/eng2006/2ensynodmeeting.html] Relations with the Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie and with Bishop Photii of Triaditza were subsequently severed as well.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As of 2007, with the reconciliation with Moscow, the ROCOR is now in communion with [[List of autocephalous and autonomous churches|all of mainstream Orthodoxy]] by virtue of its incorporation into the Moscow Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Episcopacy==&lt;br /&gt;
The Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia currently has 13 [[bishop]]s serving 11 [[diocese]]s throughout the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ruling bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus (Skurla)]] of New York and Eastern America, First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, Ruling Bishop of the Syracuse-Holy Trinity Diocese, ''[[Locum Tenens]]'' of the Eastern part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Alypy (Gamanovich) of Chicago|Alypy (Gamanovich)]] of Chicago and Mid-America&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Mark (Arndt) of Berlin|Mark (Arndt)]] of Berlin, Germany and of Great Britain&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Hilarion (Kapral) of Sydney|Hilarion (Kapral)]] of Sydney, [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Kyrill (Dmitrieff) of San Francisco|Kyrill (Dmitrieff)]] of San Francisco and Western America, Locum Tenens of the Western part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Michael (Donskoff) of Geneva|Michael (Donskoff)]] of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vicar bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Evtikhii (Kurochkin) of Ishim|Evtikhii (Kurochkin)]] of Domodedovo, Patriarchal Vicar for the service of Synodal parishes in Russia&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Daniel (Alexandrow) of Erie|Daniel (Alexandrow)]] of Erie, Vicar of the President of the Synod of Bishops for the service of Old Believers&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Gabriel (Chemodakov) of Manhattan|Gabriel (Chemodakov)]] of Manhattan, Vicar of the Eastern American and New York Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agapit (Gorachek) of Stuttgart|Agapit (Gorachek)]] of Stuttgart, Vicar of the German Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Peter (Loukianoff) of Cleveland|Peter (Loukianoff)]] of Cleveland, Vicar of the Chicago Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Retired bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Ambrose (Cantacuzène) of Geneva|Ambrose (Cantacuzène)]], Retired, formerly of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Varnava (Prokofiev) of Cannes|Varnava (Prokofiev)]], Retired, formerly of Cannes, Vicar for the Western European diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Suspended bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agafangel (Pashkovsky) of Simferopol|Agafangel (Pashkovsky)]], suspended. Formerly bishop of Odessa and the Crimea&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Former bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Alexander (Mileant) of Buenos Aires|Alexander (Mileant)]] of Buenos Aires and South America (reposed [[September 13]], 2005 [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/news05/balexdeath.html])&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Mitrophan (Znosko-Borovsky) of Boston]], reposed February 15, 2002.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[ROCOR and OCA]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/ Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, Russian)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, English)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.roca.org/ ROCA: A collection of Russian Orthodox Materials] (Unofficial site)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/roca_history.aspx History of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad], by St. [[John Maximovitch]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://gnisios.narod.ru/bisrocor.html Bishops of the ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/svassasobor.htm &amp;quot;Glory be to God, Who Did Not Abandon His Church&amp;quot;: The Self-Awareness of ROCOR at the Third All-Diaspora Council of 1974], by Nun Vassa (Larin)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--- * [http://www.pravos.org/index.htm Commission Dialogue Moscow Patriarchate-Church outside Russia] ---&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/voicesofreason.htm Voices of Reason], a collection of articles in response to those who oppose the reconciliation of ROCOR with the MP&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Featured Articles]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Jurisdictions]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Moscow Patriarchate Dioceses]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia</id>
		<title>Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia"/>
				<updated>2007-12-12T20:51:07Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* Holy Transfiguration Monastery and ROCOR */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{diocese|&lt;br /&gt;
name=Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia|&lt;br /&gt;
jurisdiction=[[Church of Russia|Russia]] |&lt;br /&gt;
type=Semi-autonomous|&lt;br /&gt;
founded=1922|&lt;br /&gt;
bishop=[[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Metr. Laurus]]|&lt;br /&gt;
see=New York|&lt;br /&gt;
hq=New York, New York|&lt;br /&gt;
territory=United States, worldwide|&lt;br /&gt;
language=[[Church Slavonic]], English, German|&lt;br /&gt;
music=[[Russian Chant]]|&lt;br /&gt;
calendar=[[Julian Calendar|Julian]]|&lt;br /&gt;
population=60,000 to 100,000|&lt;br /&gt;
website=[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
The '''Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia''' (also called the ''Russian Orthodox Church Abroad'', ''ROCA'', ''ROCOR'', ''the Karlovsty Synod'', or ''the Synod'') is a semi-[[autonomy|autonomous]] [[jurisdiction]] of the [[Moscow Patriarchate]] originally formed in response against the policy of Bolsheviks with respect to religion in the Soviet Union soon after the Russian Revolution.  The ROCOR exists overlapping with previously existing [[diocese]]s of the Moscow Patriarchate throughout the [[diaspora]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
===Formation and early years===&lt;br /&gt;
In 1920, the Soviet government had revealed that it was quite hostile to the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].  Saint [[Tikhon of Moscow|Tikhon]], Patriarch of Moscow, issued an ''[[Ukaz No. 362|ukaz]]'' (decree) that all Russian Orthodox Christians abroad currently under the authority and protection of his Patriarchate organize and govern themselves independently of the Mother Church, until such time that the Patriarchate would again be free.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among most Russian [[bishop]]s and other hierarchs, this was interpreted as an authorization to form an emergency [[synod]] of all Russian Orthodox hierarchs to permit the Church to continue to function outside Russia and provide spiritual care for nearly three million Russian emigres. To add urgency to the synod's motives, in May of 1922, the Soviet government proclaimed its own &amp;quot;[[Living Church]]&amp;quot; as a &amp;quot;reform&amp;quot; of the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[September 13]], 1922, Russian Orthodox hierarchs in Serbia gave their blessing to the establishment, in Serbia, of a Synod of Bishops of the Russian Church Abroad, the foundation of ROCOR.  In November of 1922, Russian Orthodox in North America held a synod and elected Metropolitan [[Platon (Rozhdestvensky) of New York|Platon]] as the primate of an autonomous Russian exarchate in the Americas (also known as the ''Metropolia'', which eventually became the [[Orthodox Church in America]]).  Although the hierarchs of the Metropolia participated as full equals in the Synod Abroad, eventually a three-way conflict in the United States erupted between the patriarchal exarchate, ROCOR (sometimes known as &amp;quot;the Synod&amp;quot; in this period), and the [[Living Church]], which asserted that it was the legitimate (i.e., Russian-government-recognized) owner of all Orthodox properties in the USA.  (See:  [[ROCOR and OCA]])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===The Church of the Refugees (1922-1991)===&lt;br /&gt;
{{orthodoxyinamerica}}&lt;br /&gt;
In 1927, ROCOR declared &amp;quot;The part of the Russian Church that finds itself abroad considers itself an inseparable, spiritually united branch of the Great Russian Church. It does not separate itself from its Mother Church and does not consider itself autocephalous,&amp;quot; indicating that ROCOR considered itself to speak for all of the Russian Orthodox outside of Russia.  The Church Abroad also considered itself to be the free voice of the enslaved Mother Church in the Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the end of World War II, the [[Church of Russia|Patriarchate of Moscow]] broached the possibility of reunification between Moscow and ROCOR, presumably at the behest of the Soviet government, which had adopted a more conciliatory attitude towards religion during the war and was presumably trying to capitalize on its wartime alliances to win a more respectable position internationally. This was not deemed possible at that time by ROCOR, given that Russia was still under communist dictatorship and the Church was still persecuted and controlled by the atheist authorities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Holy Transfiguration Monastery and ROCOR===&lt;br /&gt;
In the 1960s, ROCOR took under its care [[Holy Transfiguration Monastery (Brookline, Massachusetts)]] (today the principal [[monastery]] of [[HOCNA]]) after the latter had broken communion from the [[Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America]] due to its ecumenical leanings. At some point later, they gradually assumed responsibility for much of ROCOR's external communications and publications. (The monks of Holy Transfiguration were English-speaking and the ROCOR bishops in America mainly were not.) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The monastery represented the traditional views of Orthodoxy, which were not always embraced by ROCOR. In 1983, ROCOR anathamatized the heresy of ecumenism. Due to issues of faith and ecclesiology, Holy Transfiguration Monastery broke communion with ROCOR after the repose of Metropolitan Philaret.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===After the Soviet fall===&lt;br /&gt;
Since the end of the Soviet Union, ROCOR maintained its independence from the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]] on the grounds that the Church inside Russia had been unacceptably compromised. Some accusations went so far as to claim that the entire hierarchy within Russia were active KGB agents. ROCOR also attempted to set up missions in post-Soviet Russia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This did not prevent all communication, however. For many years there had been unofficial and warm contacts between the two groups.  In 2001, the Synod of the Patriarchate of Moscow and ROCOR exchanged formal correspondence.  The Muscovite letter held the position that previous and current separation was over purely political matters.  ROCOR's response expressed concern over continued Muscovite involvement in [[ecumenism]], which was seen as compromising Moscow's Orthodoxy.  Nevertheless, this was far more friendly  discourse than had been seen previously.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia continued to establish itself in its homeland.  It now has about 100 worshiping communities in Russia and  other countries of the Commonwealth of Independent States. Currently four bishops oversee these parishes.  Two of them broke with Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] in New York in April 1994. They founded their own temporary administration called the ''Free Orthodox Church of Russia'' and ordained three additional bishops.  They were reconciled in November 1994, and the ordination of the three new bishops was declared invalid. However, some tensions remain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Rapprochement with Moscow===&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Laurus alexii signing.jpg|right|250px|thumb|The signing of the Act of Canonical Communion by Patr. Alexey II and Metr. Laurus]]&lt;br /&gt;
Since the election of Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus]] as First Hierarch of ROCOR in 2001, a steady process of rapprochement occurred between ROCOR and the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]].  Multiple official visits have been exchanged between hierarchs and other clergy of both churches, and the date for restoration of [[full communion]] was officially announced by both sides. [http://www.antiochian.org.au/content/view/587/6/]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In October 2001 Patriarch [[Alexei II (Ridiger) of Moscow|Alexei II]] and the [[Holy Synod]] of the Moscow Patriarchate sent a letter to the Bishops' Council of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia calling for reconciliation, but without success.  However, there was mutual recognition of grace in the sacraments of each church.  Then, in November 2003, a delegation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia consisting of three bishops and two priests paid an official visit to the Moscow Patriarchate. This signaled a warming in relations, and in May 2004 for the first time since the foundation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, the First Hierarch of ROCOR, Metropolitan Laurus, visited Moscow and met with Patriarch Alexei.  The two church leaders established a joint committee to examine ways to overcome the division between their churches.  This committee met successfully on several occasions, working out the details of intercommunion between the two Church bodies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This possibility of rapprochement led to a small [[schism]] from ROCOR, taking the self-retired Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] (Metropolitan Laurus's predecessor) with it (regarded by many in ROCOR as having been abducted by the schismatics).  The resultant body refers to itself as the ''[[Russian Orthodox Church in Exile]]'' (ROCE/ROCiE), though it often still uses the ''ROCOR'' name.  A few other communities have also broken off from ROCOR, some joining with Greek [[Old Calendarists|Old Calendarist]] groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[June 21]], 2005, it was announced simultaneously by both the ROCOR and the MP on their respective websites that rapprochement talks were leading toward the resumption of full relations between the ROCOR and the MP and that the ROCOR would be given the status of [[autonomy]].[http://www.mospat.ru/text/e_news/id/9553.html][http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/docs.html]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In May 2006, the ROCOR met in its IV All-Diaspora Council, which was held at Most Holy Theotokos Joy of All Who Sorrow Cathedral in San Francisco, California. The council consisted of clergy and lay delegates from all dioceses of the ROCOR, and adopted a resolution, expressing &amp;quot;great hope that in the appropriate time, the unity of the Russian Church will be restored upon the foundation of the Truth of Christ, opening for us the possibility to serve together and to commune from one Chalice.&amp;quot;[http://www.sobor2006.com/more2.php?id=99_0_3_0_M45] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following the IV All-Diaspora Council, the Council of Bishops of the ROCOR was held. According to sources close to the council, it generally agreed with the text of the proposed &amp;quot;[[Act of Canonical Communion with the Moscow Patriarchate|Act of Canonical Unity]],&amp;quot; but remitted it back to the Committee for Dialogue with the Moscow Patriarchate to rework certain aspects of the document.{{citation}} The exact nature of the elements to be worked out is unclear, but, according to sources close to the Synod of Bishops, involves, among other things, property issues in the Holy Land.{{citation}} &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On September 6, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR decreed their confirmation and approval of the revised Act of Canonical Unity and instructed the Commission on Discussion with the Moscow Patriarchate to work jointly with the Moscow Patriarchate to work out details of the official signing of the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktko.html] Subsequently on September 11, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR published on ROCOR's website a clarification of their decision to confirm and approve the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktexplanantion.html] Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and All Russia acknowledged the work of the commissions and declared that the act of reunification, while moving in the right direction, will take time. [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&amp;amp;div=1977]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia published on their respective websites the final full text of the Act of Canonical Unity [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_akt.html] with all relevant supporting documents [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_addendum.html] [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/11ensummation.html] on November 1, 2006. The Act having been approved by both the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR, it was formally signed in Moscow on May 17, 2007, followed by a concelebration of the Divine Liturgy, bringing the ROCOR into the Moscow Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===ROCOR Today===&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR currently has over 400 [[parish]]es as well as [[monastery|monasteries]] for men and women in 40 countries throughout the world, served by nearly 600 [[priest]]s.  In North America, it has approximately 133 parishes in the US and 22 in Canada.  There are three ROCOR communities in the United Kingdom and 21 in [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]].  There are also roughly 100 communities which owe allegiance to ROCOR in Russia and the other nations of the former Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are five ROCOR monasteries for men and women in North America, the most important and largest of which is [[Holy Trinity Monastery (Jordanville, New York)]], to which is attached ROCOR's seminary, [[Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary (Jordanville, New York)|Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In concert with the [[Church of Jerusalem]], ROCOR also oversees the [http://www.jerusalem-mission.org/ Russian Ecclesiastical Mission in Jerusalem], headed by Hegumen Andronik (Kotliaroff), which acts as caretaker to three holy sites in Palestine, all of which are monasteries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Ecclesiastical status before 2007==&lt;br /&gt;
Until the reconciliation with Moscow in 2007, the ROCOR was in relative [[Eucharist]]ic isolation from much of the Orthodox world, not always exchanging [[full communion]] with the majority of Orthodox [[jurisdiction]]s.  It maintained good relations, intercommunion, and [[concelebration]] with the [[Church of Serbia]], the [[Church of Jerusalem]], and the [[Church of Sinai]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Before the reconciliation, ROCOR's status with regard to [[full communion]] was not entirely clear-cut.  There was never a formal declaration of a break in communion made between ROCOR and most other Orthodox churches, though in many dioceses [[concelebration]] had been suspended.  In others, concelebration was active. A formal declaration of breaking communion with the OCA was issued by the ROCOR Synod after the Moscow Patriarchate issued the Tomos of Autocephaly to the OCA. (See: [[ROCOR and OCA]].) Generally Orthodox Christians from all local Orthodox churches were welcome to the chalice in ROCOR churches.  There was never a declaration from the ROCOR synod that grace did not exist in the [[New Calendar]] jurisdictions, in spite of statements to the contrary by the followers of Holy Transfiguation Monastery in Boston when they were still with the Synod.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR formerly maintained communion with a few [[Old Calendarist]] jurisdictions, including the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] (True Orthodox Church of Greece, so-called &amp;quot;Cyprianites&amp;quot;), the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Romania]] (Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie), and the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Bulgaria]] (Bishop Photii).  In 2006, communion with the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] was suspended, after the ROCOR Synod received a letter from Metropolitan Cyprian of Oropos and Fili stating that Metropolitan Laurus' name had been &amp;quot;struck from the diptych.&amp;quot; [http://www.synod.com/synod/eng2006/2ensynodmeeting.html] Relations with the Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie and with Bishop Photii of Triaditza were subsequently severed as well.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As of 2007, with the reconciliation with Moscow, the ROCOR is now in communion with [[List of autocephalous and autonomous churches|all of mainstream Orthodoxy]] by virtue of its incorporation into the Moscow Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Episcopacy==&lt;br /&gt;
The Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia currently has 13 [[bishop]]s serving 11 [[diocese]]s throughout the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ruling bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus (Skurla)]] of New York and Eastern America, First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, Ruling Bishop of the Syracuse-Holy Trinity Diocese, ''[[Locum Tenens]]'' of the Eastern part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Alypy (Gamanovich) of Chicago|Alypy (Gamanovich)]] of Chicago and Mid-America&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Mark (Arndt) of Berlin|Mark (Arndt)]] of Berlin, Germany and of Great Britain&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Hilarion (Kapral) of Sydney|Hilarion (Kapral)]] of Sydney, [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Kyrill (Dmitrieff) of San Francisco|Kyrill (Dmitrieff)]] of San Francisco and Western America, Locum Tenens of the Western part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Michael (Donskoff) of Geneva|Michael (Donskoff)]] of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vicar bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Evtikhii (Kurochkin) of Ishim|Evtikhii (Kurochkin)]] of Domodedovo, Patriarchal Vicar for the service of Synodal parishes in Russia&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Daniel (Alexandrow) of Erie|Daniel (Alexandrow)]] of Erie, Vicar of the President of the Synod of Bishops for the service of Old Believers&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Gabriel (Chemodakov) of Manhattan|Gabriel (Chemodakov)]] of Manhattan, Vicar of the Eastern American and New York Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agapit (Gorachek) of Stuttgart|Agapit (Gorachek)]] of Stuttgart, Vicar of the German Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Peter (Loukianoff) of Cleveland|Peter (Loukianoff)]] of Cleveland, Vicar of the Chicago Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Retired bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Ambrose (Cantacuzène) of Geneva|Ambrose (Cantacuzène)]], Retired, formerly of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Varnava (Prokofiev) of Cannes|Varnava (Prokofiev)]], Retired, formerly of Cannes, Vicar for the Western European diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Suspended bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agafangel (Pashkovsky) of Simferopol|Agafangel (Pashkovsky)]], suspended. Formerly bishop of Odessa and the Crimea&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Former bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Alexander (Mileant) of Buenos Aires|Alexander (Mileant)]] of Buenos Aires and South America (reposed [[September 13]], 2005 [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/news05/balexdeath.html])&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Mitrophan (Znosko-Borovsky) of Boston]], reposed February 15, 2002.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[ROCOR and OCA]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/ Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, Russian)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, English)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.roca.org/ ROCA: A collection of Russian Orthodox Materials] (Unofficial site)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/roca_history.aspx History of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad], by St. [[John Maximovitch]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://gnisios.narod.ru/bisrocor.html Bishops of the ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/svassasobor.htm &amp;quot;Glory be to God, Who Did Not Abandon His Church&amp;quot;: The Self-Awareness of ROCOR at the Third All-Diaspora Council of 1974], by Nun Vassa (Larin)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--- * [http://www.pravos.org/index.htm Commission Dialogue Moscow Patriarchate-Church outside Russia] ---&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/voicesofreason.htm Voices of Reason], a collection of articles in response to those who oppose the reconciliation of ROCOR with the MP&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Featured Articles]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Jurisdictions]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Moscow Patriarchate Dioceses]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia</id>
		<title>Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia"/>
				<updated>2007-12-12T01:18:00Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* The Episcopacy */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{diocese|&lt;br /&gt;
name=Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia|&lt;br /&gt;
jurisdiction=[[Church of Russia|Russia]] |&lt;br /&gt;
type=Semi-autonomous|&lt;br /&gt;
founded=1922|&lt;br /&gt;
bishop=[[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Metr. Laurus]]|&lt;br /&gt;
see=New York|&lt;br /&gt;
hq=New York, New York|&lt;br /&gt;
territory=United States, worldwide|&lt;br /&gt;
language=[[Church Slavonic]], English, German|&lt;br /&gt;
music=[[Russian Chant]]|&lt;br /&gt;
calendar=[[Julian Calendar|Julian]]|&lt;br /&gt;
population=60,000 to 100,000|&lt;br /&gt;
website=[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
The '''Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia''' (also called the ''Russian Orthodox Church Abroad'', ''ROCA'', ''ROCOR'', ''the Karlovsty Synod'', or ''the Synod'') is a semi-[[autonomy|autonomous]] [[jurisdiction]] of the [[Moscow Patriarchate]] originally formed in response against the policy of Bolsheviks with respect to religion in the Soviet Union soon after the Russian Revolution.  The ROCOR exists overlapping with previously existing [[diocese]]s of the Moscow Patriarchate throughout the [[diaspora]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
===Formation and early years===&lt;br /&gt;
In 1920, the Soviet government had revealed that it was quite hostile to the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].  Saint [[Tikhon of Moscow|Tikhon]], Patriarch of Moscow, issued an ''[[Ukaz No. 362|ukaz]]'' (decree) that all Russian Orthodox Christians abroad currently under the authority and protection of his Patriarchate organize and govern themselves independently of the Mother Church, until such time that the Patriarchate would again be free.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among most Russian [[bishop]]s and other hierarchs, this was interpreted as an authorization to form an emergency [[synod]] of all Russian Orthodox hierarchs to permit the Church to continue to function outside Russia and provide spiritual care for nearly three million Russian emigres. To add urgency to the synod's motives, in May of 1922, the Soviet government proclaimed its own &amp;quot;[[Living Church]]&amp;quot; as a &amp;quot;reform&amp;quot; of the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[September 13]], 1922, Russian Orthodox hierarchs in Serbia gave their blessing to the establishment, in Serbia, of a Synod of Bishops of the Russian Church Abroad, the foundation of ROCOR.  In November of 1922, Russian Orthodox in North America held a synod and elected Metropolitan [[Platon (Rozhdestvensky) of New York|Platon]] as the primate of an autonomous Russian exarchate in the Americas (also known as the ''Metropolia'', which eventually became the [[Orthodox Church in America]]).  Although the hierarchs of the Metropolia participated as full equals in the Synod Abroad, eventually a three-way conflict in the United States erupted between the patriarchal exarchate, ROCOR (sometimes known as &amp;quot;the Synod&amp;quot; in this period), and the [[Living Church]], which asserted that it was the legitimate (i.e., Russian-government-recognized) owner of all Orthodox properties in the USA.  (See:  [[ROCOR and OCA]])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===The Church of the Refugees (1922-1991)===&lt;br /&gt;
{{orthodoxyinamerica}}&lt;br /&gt;
In 1927, ROCOR declared &amp;quot;The part of the Russian Church that finds itself abroad considers itself an inseparable, spiritually united branch of the Great Russian Church. It does not separate itself from its Mother Church and does not consider itself autocephalous,&amp;quot; indicating that ROCOR considered itself to speak for all of the Russian Orthodox outside of Russia.  The Church Abroad also considered itself to be the free voice of the enslaved Mother Church in the Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the end of World War II, the [[Church of Russia|Patriarchate of Moscow]] broached the possibility of reunification between Moscow and ROCOR, presumably at the behest of the Soviet government, which had adopted a more conciliatory attitude towards religion during the war and was presumably trying to capitalize on its wartime alliances to win a more respectable position internationally. This was not deemed possible at that time by ROCOR, given that Russia was still under communist dictatorship and the Church was still persecuted and controlled by the atheist authorities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Holy Transfiguration Monastery and ROCOR===&lt;br /&gt;
In the 1960s, ROCOR took under its care [[Holy Transfiguration Monastery (Brookline, Massachusetts)]] (today the principal [[monastery]] of [[HOCNA]]) after the latter had broken communion from the [[Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America]] due to its ecumenical leanings.  At some point later, they gradually assumed responsibility for much of ROCOR's external communications and publications. (The monks of Holy Transfiguration were English-speaking and the ROCOR bishops in America mainly were not.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The monastery represented the traditional views of Orthodoxy, which were not always embraced by ROCOR.  In 1983, ROCOR anathamatized the heresy of ecumenism.  Due to issues of faith and ecclesiology, Holy Transfiguration Monastery broke communion with ROCOR after the repose of Metropolitan Philaret.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===After the Soviet fall===&lt;br /&gt;
Since the end of the Soviet Union, ROCOR maintained its independence from the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]] on the grounds that the Church inside Russia had been unacceptably compromised. Some accusations went so far as to claim that the entire hierarchy within Russia were active KGB agents. ROCOR also attempted to set up missions in post-Soviet Russia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This did not prevent all communication, however. For many years there had been unofficial and warm contacts between the two groups.  In 2001, the Synod of the Patriarchate of Moscow and ROCOR exchanged formal correspondence.  The Muscovite letter held the position that previous and current separation was over purely political matters.  ROCOR's response expressed concern over continued Muscovite involvement in [[ecumenism]], which was seen as compromising Moscow's Orthodoxy.  Nevertheless, this was far more friendly  discourse than had been seen previously.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia continued to establish itself in its homeland.  It now has about 100 worshiping communities in Russia and  other countries of the Commonwealth of Independent States. Currently four bishops oversee these parishes.  Two of them broke with Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] in New York in April 1994. They founded their own temporary administration called the ''Free Orthodox Church of Russia'' and ordained three additional bishops.  They were reconciled in November 1994, and the ordination of the three new bishops was declared invalid. However, some tensions remain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Rapprochement with Moscow===&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Laurus alexii signing.jpg|right|250px|thumb|The signing of the Act of Canonical Communion by Patr. Alexey II and Metr. Laurus]]&lt;br /&gt;
Since the election of Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus]] as First Hierarch of ROCOR in 2001, a steady process of rapprochement occurred between ROCOR and the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]].  Multiple official visits have been exchanged between hierarchs and other clergy of both churches, and the date for restoration of [[full communion]] was officially announced by both sides. [http://www.antiochian.org.au/content/view/587/6/]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In October 2001 Patriarch [[Alexei II (Ridiger) of Moscow|Alexei II]] and the [[Holy Synod]] of the Moscow Patriarchate sent a letter to the Bishops' Council of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia calling for reconciliation, but without success.  However, there was mutual recognition of grace in the sacraments of each church.  Then, in November 2003, a delegation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia consisting of three bishops and two priests paid an official visit to the Moscow Patriarchate. This signaled a warming in relations, and in May 2004 for the first time since the foundation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, the First Hierarch of ROCOR, Metropolitan Laurus, visited Moscow and met with Patriarch Alexei.  The two church leaders established a joint committee to examine ways to overcome the division between their churches.  This committee met successfully on several occasions, working out the details of intercommunion between the two Church bodies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This possibility of rapprochement led to a small [[schism]] from ROCOR, taking the self-retired Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] (Metropolitan Laurus's predecessor) with it (regarded by many in ROCOR as having been abducted by the schismatics).  The resultant body refers to itself as the ''[[Russian Orthodox Church in Exile]]'' (ROCE/ROCiE), though it often still uses the ''ROCOR'' name.  A few other communities have also broken off from ROCOR, some joining with Greek [[Old Calendarists|Old Calendarist]] groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[June 21]], 2005, it was announced simultaneously by both the ROCOR and the MP on their respective websites that rapprochement talks were leading toward the resumption of full relations between the ROCOR and the MP and that the ROCOR would be given the status of [[autonomy]].[http://www.mospat.ru/text/e_news/id/9553.html][http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/docs.html]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In May 2006, the ROCOR met in its IV All-Diaspora Council, which was held at Most Holy Theotokos Joy of All Who Sorrow Cathedral in San Francisco, California. The council consisted of clergy and lay delegates from all dioceses of the ROCOR, and adopted a resolution, expressing &amp;quot;great hope that in the appropriate time, the unity of the Russian Church will be restored upon the foundation of the Truth of Christ, opening for us the possibility to serve together and to commune from one Chalice.&amp;quot;[http://www.sobor2006.com/more2.php?id=99_0_3_0_M45] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following the IV All-Diaspora Council, the Council of Bishops of the ROCOR was held. According to sources close to the council, it generally agreed with the text of the proposed &amp;quot;[[Act of Canonical Communion with the Moscow Patriarchate|Act of Canonical Unity]],&amp;quot; but remitted it back to the Committee for Dialogue with the Moscow Patriarchate to rework certain aspects of the document.{{citation}} The exact nature of the elements to be worked out is unclear, but, according to sources close to the Synod of Bishops, involves, among other things, property issues in the Holy Land.{{citation}} &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On September 6, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR decreed their confirmation and approval of the revised Act of Canonical Unity and instructed the Commission on Discussion with the Moscow Patriarchate to work jointly with the Moscow Patriarchate to work out details of the official signing of the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktko.html] Subsequently on September 11, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR published on ROCOR's website a clarification of their decision to confirm and approve the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktexplanantion.html] Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and All Russia acknowledged the work of the commissions and declared that the act of reunification, while moving in the right direction, will take time. [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&amp;amp;div=1977]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia published on their respective websites the final full text of the Act of Canonical Unity [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_akt.html] with all relevant supporting documents [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_addendum.html] [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/11ensummation.html] on November 1, 2006. The Act having been approved by both the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR, it was formally signed in Moscow on May 17, 2007, followed by a concelebration of the Divine Liturgy, bringing the ROCOR into the Moscow Patriarchate. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Act itself &amp;quot;repealed&amp;quot; the ROCOR anathema against ecumenism, which states:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Those who attack the Church of Christ by teaching that Christ's Church is divided into so-called &amp;quot;branches&amp;quot; which differ in doctrine and way of life, or that the Church does not exist visibly, but will be formed in the future when all &amp;quot;branches&amp;quot; or sects or denominations, and even religions will be united into one body; and who do not distinguish the priesthood and mysteries of the Church from those of the heretics, but say that the baptism and eucharist of heretics is effectual for salvation; therefore, to those who knowingly have communion with these aforementioned heretics or who advocate, disseminate, or defend their new heresy of Ecumenism under the pretext of brotherly love or the supposed unification of separated Christians, Anathema!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR is now officially in communion with those groups it formally anathematized.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===ROCOR Today===&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR currently has over 400 [[parish]]es as well as [[monastery|monasteries]] for men and women in 40 countries throughout the world, served by nearly 600 [[priest]]s.  In North America, it has approximately 133 parishes in the US and 22 in Canada.  There are three ROCOR communities in the United Kingdom and 21 in [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]].  There are also roughly 100 communities which owe allegiance to ROCOR in Russia and the other nations of the former Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are five ROCOR monasteries for men and women in North America, the most important and largest of which is [[Holy Trinity Monastery (Jordanville, New York)]], to which is attached ROCOR's seminary, [[Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary (Jordanville, New York)|Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In concert with the [[Church of Jerusalem]], ROCOR also oversees the [http://www.jerusalem-mission.org/ Russian Ecclesiastical Mission in Jerusalem], headed by Hegumen Andronik (Kotliaroff), which acts as caretaker to three holy sites in Palestine, all of which are monasteries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While still respecting the old calender, ROCOR is in communion with most, if not all new calender jurisdictions.  ROCOR is also openly serving with the OCA, Orthodox Church of America, a new calender jurisdiction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Ecclesiastical status before 2007==&lt;br /&gt;
Until the reconciliation with Moscow in 2007, the ROCOR was in relative [[Eucharist]]ic isolation from much of the Orthodox world, not always exchanging [[full communion]] with the majority of Orthodox [[jurisdiction]]s.  It maintained good relations, intercommunion, and [[concelebration]] with the [[Church of Serbia]], the [[Church of Jerusalem]], and the [[Church of Sinai]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Before the reconciliation, ROCOR's status with regard to [[full communion]] was not entirely clear-cut.  There was never a formal declaration of a break in communion made between ROCOR and most other Orthodox churches, though in many dioceses [[concelebration]] had been suspended.  In others, concelebration was active. A formal declaration of breaking communion with the OCA was issued by the ROCOR Synod after the Moscow Patriarchate issued the Tomos of Autocephaly to the OCA. (See: [[ROCOR and OCA]].) Generally Orthodox Christians from all local Orthodox churches were welcome to the chalice in ROCOR churches.  There was never a declaration from the ROCOR synod that grace did not exist in the [[New Calendar]] jurisdictions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR formerly maintained communion with a few [[Old Calendarist]] jurisdictions, including the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] (True Orthodox Church of Greece, so-called &amp;quot;Cyprianites&amp;quot;), the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Romania]] (Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie), and the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Bulgaria]] (Bishop Photii).  In 2006, communion with the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] was suspended, after the ROCOR Synod received a letter from Metropolitan Cyprian of Oropos and Fili stating that Metropolitan Laurus' name had been &amp;quot;struck from the diptych.&amp;quot; [http://www.synod.com/synod/eng2006/2ensynodmeeting.html] Relations with the Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie and with Bishop Photii of Triaditza were subsequently severed as well.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As of 2007, with the reconciliation with Moscow, the ROCOR is now in communion with [[List of autocephalous and autonomous churches|all of mainstream Orthodoxy]] by virtue of its incorporation into the Moscow Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Episcopacy==&lt;br /&gt;
The Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia currently has 13 [[bishop]]s serving 11 [[diocese]]s throughout the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ruling bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus (Skurla)]] of New York and Eastern America, First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, Ruling Bishop of the Syracuse-Holy Trinity Diocese, ''[[Locum Tenens]]'' of the Eastern part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Alypy (Gamanovich) of Chicago|Alypy (Gamanovich)]] of Chicago and Mid-America&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Mark (Arndt) of Berlin|Mark (Arndt)]] of Berlin, Germany and of Great Britain&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Hilarion (Kapral) of Sydney|Hilarion (Kapral)]] of Sydney, [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Kyrill (Dmitrieff) of San Francisco|Kyrill (Dmitrieff)]] of San Francisco and Western America, Locum Tenens of the Western part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Michael (Donskoff) of Geneva|Michael (Donskoff)]] of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vicar bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Evtikhii (Kurochkin) of Ishim|Evtikhii (Kurochkin)]] of Domodedovo, Patriarchal Vicar for the service of Synodal parishes in Russia&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Daniel (Alexandrow) of Erie|Daniel (Alexandrow)]] of Erie, Vicar of the President of the Synod of Bishops for the service of Old Believers&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Gabriel (Chemodakov) of Manhattan|Gabriel (Chemodakov)]] of Manhattan, Vicar of the Eastern American and New York Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agapit (Gorachek) of Stuttgart|Agapit (Gorachek)]] of Stuttgart, Vicar of the German Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Peter (Loukianoff) of Cleveland|Peter (Loukianoff)]] of Cleveland, Vicar of the Chicago Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Retired bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Ambrose (Cantacuzène) of Geneva|Ambrose (Cantacuzène)]], Retired, formerly of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Varnava (Prokofiev) of Cannes|Varnava (Prokofiev)]], Retired, formerly of Cannes, Vicar for the Western European diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Suspended bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agafangel (Pashkovsky) of Simferopol|Agafangel (Pashkovsky)]], suspended. Formerly bishop of Odessa and the Crimea.  Bishop Agafangel, refused to accept the reconciliation with the Moscow Patriarchate and represents, what he considers to be the &amp;quot;true ROCOR&amp;quot;, with some 100 parishes and communities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Former bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Alexander (Mileant) of Buenos Aires|Alexander (Mileant)]] of Buenos Aires and South America (reposed [[September 13]], 2005 [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/news05/balexdeath.html])&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Mitrophan (Znosko-Borovsky) of Boston]], reposed February 15, 2002.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[ROCOR and OCA]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/ Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, Russian)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, English)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.roca.org/ ROCA: A collection of Russian Orthodox Materials] (Unofficial site)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/roca_history.aspx History of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad], by St. [[John Maximovitch]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://gnisios.narod.ru/bisrocor.html Bishops of the ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/svassasobor.htm &amp;quot;Glory be to God, Who Did Not Abandon His Church&amp;quot;: The Self-Awareness of ROCOR at the Third All-Diaspora Council of 1974], by Nun Vassa (Larin)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--- * [http://www.pravos.org/index.htm Commission Dialogue Moscow Patriarchate-Church outside Russia] ---&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/voicesofreason.htm Voices of Reason], a collection of articles in response to those who oppose the reconciliation of ROCOR with the MP&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Featured Articles]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Jurisdictions]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Moscow Patriarchate Dioceses]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia</id>
		<title>Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia"/>
				<updated>2007-12-12T01:14:08Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* Ecclesiastical status before 2007 */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{diocese|&lt;br /&gt;
name=Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia|&lt;br /&gt;
jurisdiction=[[Church of Russia|Russia]] |&lt;br /&gt;
type=Semi-autonomous|&lt;br /&gt;
founded=1922|&lt;br /&gt;
bishop=[[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Metr. Laurus]]|&lt;br /&gt;
see=New York|&lt;br /&gt;
hq=New York, New York|&lt;br /&gt;
territory=United States, worldwide|&lt;br /&gt;
language=[[Church Slavonic]], English, German|&lt;br /&gt;
music=[[Russian Chant]]|&lt;br /&gt;
calendar=[[Julian Calendar|Julian]]|&lt;br /&gt;
population=60,000 to 100,000|&lt;br /&gt;
website=[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
The '''Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia''' (also called the ''Russian Orthodox Church Abroad'', ''ROCA'', ''ROCOR'', ''the Karlovsty Synod'', or ''the Synod'') is a semi-[[autonomy|autonomous]] [[jurisdiction]] of the [[Moscow Patriarchate]] originally formed in response against the policy of Bolsheviks with respect to religion in the Soviet Union soon after the Russian Revolution.  The ROCOR exists overlapping with previously existing [[diocese]]s of the Moscow Patriarchate throughout the [[diaspora]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
===Formation and early years===&lt;br /&gt;
In 1920, the Soviet government had revealed that it was quite hostile to the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].  Saint [[Tikhon of Moscow|Tikhon]], Patriarch of Moscow, issued an ''[[Ukaz No. 362|ukaz]]'' (decree) that all Russian Orthodox Christians abroad currently under the authority and protection of his Patriarchate organize and govern themselves independently of the Mother Church, until such time that the Patriarchate would again be free.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among most Russian [[bishop]]s and other hierarchs, this was interpreted as an authorization to form an emergency [[synod]] of all Russian Orthodox hierarchs to permit the Church to continue to function outside Russia and provide spiritual care for nearly three million Russian emigres. To add urgency to the synod's motives, in May of 1922, the Soviet government proclaimed its own &amp;quot;[[Living Church]]&amp;quot; as a &amp;quot;reform&amp;quot; of the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[September 13]], 1922, Russian Orthodox hierarchs in Serbia gave their blessing to the establishment, in Serbia, of a Synod of Bishops of the Russian Church Abroad, the foundation of ROCOR.  In November of 1922, Russian Orthodox in North America held a synod and elected Metropolitan [[Platon (Rozhdestvensky) of New York|Platon]] as the primate of an autonomous Russian exarchate in the Americas (also known as the ''Metropolia'', which eventually became the [[Orthodox Church in America]]).  Although the hierarchs of the Metropolia participated as full equals in the Synod Abroad, eventually a three-way conflict in the United States erupted between the patriarchal exarchate, ROCOR (sometimes known as &amp;quot;the Synod&amp;quot; in this period), and the [[Living Church]], which asserted that it was the legitimate (i.e., Russian-government-recognized) owner of all Orthodox properties in the USA.  (See:  [[ROCOR and OCA]])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===The Church of the Refugees (1922-1991)===&lt;br /&gt;
{{orthodoxyinamerica}}&lt;br /&gt;
In 1927, ROCOR declared &amp;quot;The part of the Russian Church that finds itself abroad considers itself an inseparable, spiritually united branch of the Great Russian Church. It does not separate itself from its Mother Church and does not consider itself autocephalous,&amp;quot; indicating that ROCOR considered itself to speak for all of the Russian Orthodox outside of Russia.  The Church Abroad also considered itself to be the free voice of the enslaved Mother Church in the Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the end of World War II, the [[Church of Russia|Patriarchate of Moscow]] broached the possibility of reunification between Moscow and ROCOR, presumably at the behest of the Soviet government, which had adopted a more conciliatory attitude towards religion during the war and was presumably trying to capitalize on its wartime alliances to win a more respectable position internationally. This was not deemed possible at that time by ROCOR, given that Russia was still under communist dictatorship and the Church was still persecuted and controlled by the atheist authorities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Holy Transfiguration Monastery and ROCOR===&lt;br /&gt;
In the 1960s, ROCOR took under its care [[Holy Transfiguration Monastery (Brookline, Massachusetts)]] (today the principal [[monastery]] of [[HOCNA]]) after the latter had broken communion from the [[Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America]] due to its ecumenical leanings.  At some point later, they gradually assumed responsibility for much of ROCOR's external communications and publications. (The monks of Holy Transfiguration were English-speaking and the ROCOR bishops in America mainly were not.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The monastery represented the traditional views of Orthodoxy, which were not always embraced by ROCOR.  In 1983, ROCOR anathamatized the heresy of ecumenism.  Due to issues of faith and ecclesiology, Holy Transfiguration Monastery broke communion with ROCOR after the repose of Metropolitan Philaret.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===After the Soviet fall===&lt;br /&gt;
Since the end of the Soviet Union, ROCOR maintained its independence from the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]] on the grounds that the Church inside Russia had been unacceptably compromised. Some accusations went so far as to claim that the entire hierarchy within Russia were active KGB agents. ROCOR also attempted to set up missions in post-Soviet Russia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This did not prevent all communication, however. For many years there had been unofficial and warm contacts between the two groups.  In 2001, the Synod of the Patriarchate of Moscow and ROCOR exchanged formal correspondence.  The Muscovite letter held the position that previous and current separation was over purely political matters.  ROCOR's response expressed concern over continued Muscovite involvement in [[ecumenism]], which was seen as compromising Moscow's Orthodoxy.  Nevertheless, this was far more friendly  discourse than had been seen previously.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia continued to establish itself in its homeland.  It now has about 100 worshiping communities in Russia and  other countries of the Commonwealth of Independent States. Currently four bishops oversee these parishes.  Two of them broke with Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] in New York in April 1994. They founded their own temporary administration called the ''Free Orthodox Church of Russia'' and ordained three additional bishops.  They were reconciled in November 1994, and the ordination of the three new bishops was declared invalid. However, some tensions remain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Rapprochement with Moscow===&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Laurus alexii signing.jpg|right|250px|thumb|The signing of the Act of Canonical Communion by Patr. Alexey II and Metr. Laurus]]&lt;br /&gt;
Since the election of Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus]] as First Hierarch of ROCOR in 2001, a steady process of rapprochement occurred between ROCOR and the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]].  Multiple official visits have been exchanged between hierarchs and other clergy of both churches, and the date for restoration of [[full communion]] was officially announced by both sides. [http://www.antiochian.org.au/content/view/587/6/]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In October 2001 Patriarch [[Alexei II (Ridiger) of Moscow|Alexei II]] and the [[Holy Synod]] of the Moscow Patriarchate sent a letter to the Bishops' Council of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia calling for reconciliation, but without success.  However, there was mutual recognition of grace in the sacraments of each church.  Then, in November 2003, a delegation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia consisting of three bishops and two priests paid an official visit to the Moscow Patriarchate. This signaled a warming in relations, and in May 2004 for the first time since the foundation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, the First Hierarch of ROCOR, Metropolitan Laurus, visited Moscow and met with Patriarch Alexei.  The two church leaders established a joint committee to examine ways to overcome the division between their churches.  This committee met successfully on several occasions, working out the details of intercommunion between the two Church bodies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This possibility of rapprochement led to a small [[schism]] from ROCOR, taking the self-retired Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] (Metropolitan Laurus's predecessor) with it (regarded by many in ROCOR as having been abducted by the schismatics).  The resultant body refers to itself as the ''[[Russian Orthodox Church in Exile]]'' (ROCE/ROCiE), though it often still uses the ''ROCOR'' name.  A few other communities have also broken off from ROCOR, some joining with Greek [[Old Calendarists|Old Calendarist]] groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[June 21]], 2005, it was announced simultaneously by both the ROCOR and the MP on their respective websites that rapprochement talks were leading toward the resumption of full relations between the ROCOR and the MP and that the ROCOR would be given the status of [[autonomy]].[http://www.mospat.ru/text/e_news/id/9553.html][http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/docs.html]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In May 2006, the ROCOR met in its IV All-Diaspora Council, which was held at Most Holy Theotokos Joy of All Who Sorrow Cathedral in San Francisco, California. The council consisted of clergy and lay delegates from all dioceses of the ROCOR, and adopted a resolution, expressing &amp;quot;great hope that in the appropriate time, the unity of the Russian Church will be restored upon the foundation of the Truth of Christ, opening for us the possibility to serve together and to commune from one Chalice.&amp;quot;[http://www.sobor2006.com/more2.php?id=99_0_3_0_M45] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following the IV All-Diaspora Council, the Council of Bishops of the ROCOR was held. According to sources close to the council, it generally agreed with the text of the proposed &amp;quot;[[Act of Canonical Communion with the Moscow Patriarchate|Act of Canonical Unity]],&amp;quot; but remitted it back to the Committee for Dialogue with the Moscow Patriarchate to rework certain aspects of the document.{{citation}} The exact nature of the elements to be worked out is unclear, but, according to sources close to the Synod of Bishops, involves, among other things, property issues in the Holy Land.{{citation}} &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On September 6, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR decreed their confirmation and approval of the revised Act of Canonical Unity and instructed the Commission on Discussion with the Moscow Patriarchate to work jointly with the Moscow Patriarchate to work out details of the official signing of the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktko.html] Subsequently on September 11, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR published on ROCOR's website a clarification of their decision to confirm and approve the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktexplanantion.html] Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and All Russia acknowledged the work of the commissions and declared that the act of reunification, while moving in the right direction, will take time. [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&amp;amp;div=1977]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia published on their respective websites the final full text of the Act of Canonical Unity [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_akt.html] with all relevant supporting documents [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_addendum.html] [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/11ensummation.html] on November 1, 2006. The Act having been approved by both the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR, it was formally signed in Moscow on May 17, 2007, followed by a concelebration of the Divine Liturgy, bringing the ROCOR into the Moscow Patriarchate. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Act itself &amp;quot;repealed&amp;quot; the ROCOR anathema against ecumenism, which states:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Those who attack the Church of Christ by teaching that Christ's Church is divided into so-called &amp;quot;branches&amp;quot; which differ in doctrine and way of life, or that the Church does not exist visibly, but will be formed in the future when all &amp;quot;branches&amp;quot; or sects or denominations, and even religions will be united into one body; and who do not distinguish the priesthood and mysteries of the Church from those of the heretics, but say that the baptism and eucharist of heretics is effectual for salvation; therefore, to those who knowingly have communion with these aforementioned heretics or who advocate, disseminate, or defend their new heresy of Ecumenism under the pretext of brotherly love or the supposed unification of separated Christians, Anathema!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR is now officially in communion with those groups it formally anathematized.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===ROCOR Today===&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR currently has over 400 [[parish]]es as well as [[monastery|monasteries]] for men and women in 40 countries throughout the world, served by nearly 600 [[priest]]s.  In North America, it has approximately 133 parishes in the US and 22 in Canada.  There are three ROCOR communities in the United Kingdom and 21 in [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]].  There are also roughly 100 communities which owe allegiance to ROCOR in Russia and the other nations of the former Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are five ROCOR monasteries for men and women in North America, the most important and largest of which is [[Holy Trinity Monastery (Jordanville, New York)]], to which is attached ROCOR's seminary, [[Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary (Jordanville, New York)|Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In concert with the [[Church of Jerusalem]], ROCOR also oversees the [http://www.jerusalem-mission.org/ Russian Ecclesiastical Mission in Jerusalem], headed by Hegumen Andronik (Kotliaroff), which acts as caretaker to three holy sites in Palestine, all of which are monasteries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While still respecting the old calender, ROCOR is in communion with most, if not all new calender jurisdictions.  ROCOR is also openly serving with the OCA, Orthodox Church of America, a new calender jurisdiction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Ecclesiastical status before 2007==&lt;br /&gt;
Until the reconciliation with Moscow in 2007, the ROCOR was in relative [[Eucharist]]ic isolation from much of the Orthodox world, not always exchanging [[full communion]] with the majority of Orthodox [[jurisdiction]]s.  It maintained good relations, intercommunion, and [[concelebration]] with the [[Church of Serbia]], the [[Church of Jerusalem]], and the [[Church of Sinai]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Before the reconciliation, ROCOR's status with regard to [[full communion]] was not entirely clear-cut.  There was never a formal declaration of a break in communion made between ROCOR and most other Orthodox churches, though in many dioceses [[concelebration]] had been suspended.  In others, concelebration was active. A formal declaration of breaking communion with the OCA was issued by the ROCOR Synod after the Moscow Patriarchate issued the Tomos of Autocephaly to the OCA. (See: [[ROCOR and OCA]].) Generally Orthodox Christians from all local Orthodox churches were welcome to the chalice in ROCOR churches.  There was never a declaration from the ROCOR synod that grace did not exist in the [[New Calendar]] jurisdictions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR formerly maintained communion with a few [[Old Calendarist]] jurisdictions, including the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] (True Orthodox Church of Greece, so-called &amp;quot;Cyprianites&amp;quot;), the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Romania]] (Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie), and the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Bulgaria]] (Bishop Photii).  In 2006, communion with the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] was suspended, after the ROCOR Synod received a letter from Metropolitan Cyprian of Oropos and Fili stating that Metropolitan Laurus' name had been &amp;quot;struck from the diptych.&amp;quot; [http://www.synod.com/synod/eng2006/2ensynodmeeting.html] Relations with the Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie and with Bishop Photii of Triaditza were subsequently severed as well.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As of 2007, with the reconciliation with Moscow, the ROCOR is now in communion with [[List of autocephalous and autonomous churches|all of mainstream Orthodoxy]] by virtue of its incorporation into the Moscow Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Episcopacy==&lt;br /&gt;
The Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia currently has 13 [[bishop]]s serving 11 [[diocese]]s throughout the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ruling bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus (Skurla)]] of New York and Eastern America, First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, Ruling Bishop of the Syracuse-Holy Trinity Diocese, ''[[Locum Tenens]]'' of the Eastern part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Alypy (Gamanovich) of Chicago|Alypy (Gamanovich)]] of Chicago and Mid-America&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Mark (Arndt) of Berlin|Mark (Arndt)]] of Berlin, Germany and of Great Britain&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Hilarion (Kapral) of Sydney|Hilarion (Kapral)]] of Sydney, [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Kyrill (Dmitrieff) of San Francisco|Kyrill (Dmitrieff)]] of San Francisco and Western America, Locum Tenens of the Western part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Michael (Donskoff) of Geneva|Michael (Donskoff)]] of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vicar bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Evtikhii (Kurochkin) of Ishim|Evtikhii (Kurochkin)]] of Domodedovo, Patriarchal Vicar for the service of Synodal parishes in Russia&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Daniel (Alexandrow) of Erie|Daniel (Alexandrow)]] of Erie, Vicar of the President of the Synod of Bishops for the service of Old Believers&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Gabriel (Chemodakov) of Manhattan|Gabriel (Chemodakov)]] of Manhattan, Vicar of the Eastern American and New York Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agapit (Gorachek) of Stuttgart|Agapit (Gorachek)]] of Stuttgart, Vicar of the German Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Peter (Loukianoff) of Cleveland|Peter (Loukianoff)]] of Cleveland, Vicar of the Chicago Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Retired bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Ambrose (Cantacuzène) of Geneva|Ambrose (Cantacuzène)]], Retired, formerly of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Varnava (Prokofiev) of Cannes|Varnava (Prokofiev)]], Retired, formerly of Cannes, Vicar for the Western European diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Suspended bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agafangel (Pashkovsky) of Simferopol|Agafangel (Pashkovsky)]], suspended. Formerly bishop of Odessa and the Crimea&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Former bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Alexander (Mileant) of Buenos Aires|Alexander (Mileant)]] of Buenos Aires and South America (reposed [[September 13]], 2005 [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/news05/balexdeath.html])&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Mitrophan (Znosko-Borovsky) of Boston]], reposed February 15, 2002.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[ROCOR and OCA]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/ Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, Russian)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, English)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.roca.org/ ROCA: A collection of Russian Orthodox Materials] (Unofficial site)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/roca_history.aspx History of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad], by St. [[John Maximovitch]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://gnisios.narod.ru/bisrocor.html Bishops of the ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/svassasobor.htm &amp;quot;Glory be to God, Who Did Not Abandon His Church&amp;quot;: The Self-Awareness of ROCOR at the Third All-Diaspora Council of 1974], by Nun Vassa (Larin)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--- * [http://www.pravos.org/index.htm Commission Dialogue Moscow Patriarchate-Church outside Russia] ---&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/voicesofreason.htm Voices of Reason], a collection of articles in response to those who oppose the reconciliation of ROCOR with the MP&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Featured Articles]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Jurisdictions]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Moscow Patriarchate Dioceses]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia</id>
		<title>Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia"/>
				<updated>2007-12-12T01:11:10Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* ROCOR Today */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{diocese|&lt;br /&gt;
name=Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia|&lt;br /&gt;
jurisdiction=[[Church of Russia|Russia]] |&lt;br /&gt;
type=Semi-autonomous|&lt;br /&gt;
founded=1922|&lt;br /&gt;
bishop=[[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Metr. Laurus]]|&lt;br /&gt;
see=New York|&lt;br /&gt;
hq=New York, New York|&lt;br /&gt;
territory=United States, worldwide|&lt;br /&gt;
language=[[Church Slavonic]], English, German|&lt;br /&gt;
music=[[Russian Chant]]|&lt;br /&gt;
calendar=[[Julian Calendar|Julian]]|&lt;br /&gt;
population=60,000 to 100,000|&lt;br /&gt;
website=[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
The '''Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia''' (also called the ''Russian Orthodox Church Abroad'', ''ROCA'', ''ROCOR'', ''the Karlovsty Synod'', or ''the Synod'') is a semi-[[autonomy|autonomous]] [[jurisdiction]] of the [[Moscow Patriarchate]] originally formed in response against the policy of Bolsheviks with respect to religion in the Soviet Union soon after the Russian Revolution.  The ROCOR exists overlapping with previously existing [[diocese]]s of the Moscow Patriarchate throughout the [[diaspora]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
===Formation and early years===&lt;br /&gt;
In 1920, the Soviet government had revealed that it was quite hostile to the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].  Saint [[Tikhon of Moscow|Tikhon]], Patriarch of Moscow, issued an ''[[Ukaz No. 362|ukaz]]'' (decree) that all Russian Orthodox Christians abroad currently under the authority and protection of his Patriarchate organize and govern themselves independently of the Mother Church, until such time that the Patriarchate would again be free.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among most Russian [[bishop]]s and other hierarchs, this was interpreted as an authorization to form an emergency [[synod]] of all Russian Orthodox hierarchs to permit the Church to continue to function outside Russia and provide spiritual care for nearly three million Russian emigres. To add urgency to the synod's motives, in May of 1922, the Soviet government proclaimed its own &amp;quot;[[Living Church]]&amp;quot; as a &amp;quot;reform&amp;quot; of the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[September 13]], 1922, Russian Orthodox hierarchs in Serbia gave their blessing to the establishment, in Serbia, of a Synod of Bishops of the Russian Church Abroad, the foundation of ROCOR.  In November of 1922, Russian Orthodox in North America held a synod and elected Metropolitan [[Platon (Rozhdestvensky) of New York|Platon]] as the primate of an autonomous Russian exarchate in the Americas (also known as the ''Metropolia'', which eventually became the [[Orthodox Church in America]]).  Although the hierarchs of the Metropolia participated as full equals in the Synod Abroad, eventually a three-way conflict in the United States erupted between the patriarchal exarchate, ROCOR (sometimes known as &amp;quot;the Synod&amp;quot; in this period), and the [[Living Church]], which asserted that it was the legitimate (i.e., Russian-government-recognized) owner of all Orthodox properties in the USA.  (See:  [[ROCOR and OCA]])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===The Church of the Refugees (1922-1991)===&lt;br /&gt;
{{orthodoxyinamerica}}&lt;br /&gt;
In 1927, ROCOR declared &amp;quot;The part of the Russian Church that finds itself abroad considers itself an inseparable, spiritually united branch of the Great Russian Church. It does not separate itself from its Mother Church and does not consider itself autocephalous,&amp;quot; indicating that ROCOR considered itself to speak for all of the Russian Orthodox outside of Russia.  The Church Abroad also considered itself to be the free voice of the enslaved Mother Church in the Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the end of World War II, the [[Church of Russia|Patriarchate of Moscow]] broached the possibility of reunification between Moscow and ROCOR, presumably at the behest of the Soviet government, which had adopted a more conciliatory attitude towards religion during the war and was presumably trying to capitalize on its wartime alliances to win a more respectable position internationally. This was not deemed possible at that time by ROCOR, given that Russia was still under communist dictatorship and the Church was still persecuted and controlled by the atheist authorities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Holy Transfiguration Monastery and ROCOR===&lt;br /&gt;
In the 1960s, ROCOR took under its care [[Holy Transfiguration Monastery (Brookline, Massachusetts)]] (today the principal [[monastery]] of [[HOCNA]]) after the latter had broken communion from the [[Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America]] due to its ecumenical leanings.  At some point later, they gradually assumed responsibility for much of ROCOR's external communications and publications. (The monks of Holy Transfiguration were English-speaking and the ROCOR bishops in America mainly were not.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The monastery represented the traditional views of Orthodoxy, which were not always embraced by ROCOR.  In 1983, ROCOR anathamatized the heresy of ecumenism.  Due to issues of faith and ecclesiology, Holy Transfiguration Monastery broke communion with ROCOR after the repose of Metropolitan Philaret.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===After the Soviet fall===&lt;br /&gt;
Since the end of the Soviet Union, ROCOR maintained its independence from the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]] on the grounds that the Church inside Russia had been unacceptably compromised. Some accusations went so far as to claim that the entire hierarchy within Russia were active KGB agents. ROCOR also attempted to set up missions in post-Soviet Russia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This did not prevent all communication, however. For many years there had been unofficial and warm contacts between the two groups.  In 2001, the Synod of the Patriarchate of Moscow and ROCOR exchanged formal correspondence.  The Muscovite letter held the position that previous and current separation was over purely political matters.  ROCOR's response expressed concern over continued Muscovite involvement in [[ecumenism]], which was seen as compromising Moscow's Orthodoxy.  Nevertheless, this was far more friendly  discourse than had been seen previously.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia continued to establish itself in its homeland.  It now has about 100 worshiping communities in Russia and  other countries of the Commonwealth of Independent States. Currently four bishops oversee these parishes.  Two of them broke with Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] in New York in April 1994. They founded their own temporary administration called the ''Free Orthodox Church of Russia'' and ordained three additional bishops.  They were reconciled in November 1994, and the ordination of the three new bishops was declared invalid. However, some tensions remain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Rapprochement with Moscow===&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Laurus alexii signing.jpg|right|250px|thumb|The signing of the Act of Canonical Communion by Patr. Alexey II and Metr. Laurus]]&lt;br /&gt;
Since the election of Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus]] as First Hierarch of ROCOR in 2001, a steady process of rapprochement occurred between ROCOR and the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]].  Multiple official visits have been exchanged between hierarchs and other clergy of both churches, and the date for restoration of [[full communion]] was officially announced by both sides. [http://www.antiochian.org.au/content/view/587/6/]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In October 2001 Patriarch [[Alexei II (Ridiger) of Moscow|Alexei II]] and the [[Holy Synod]] of the Moscow Patriarchate sent a letter to the Bishops' Council of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia calling for reconciliation, but without success.  However, there was mutual recognition of grace in the sacraments of each church.  Then, in November 2003, a delegation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia consisting of three bishops and two priests paid an official visit to the Moscow Patriarchate. This signaled a warming in relations, and in May 2004 for the first time since the foundation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, the First Hierarch of ROCOR, Metropolitan Laurus, visited Moscow and met with Patriarch Alexei.  The two church leaders established a joint committee to examine ways to overcome the division between their churches.  This committee met successfully on several occasions, working out the details of intercommunion between the two Church bodies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This possibility of rapprochement led to a small [[schism]] from ROCOR, taking the self-retired Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] (Metropolitan Laurus's predecessor) with it (regarded by many in ROCOR as having been abducted by the schismatics).  The resultant body refers to itself as the ''[[Russian Orthodox Church in Exile]]'' (ROCE/ROCiE), though it often still uses the ''ROCOR'' name.  A few other communities have also broken off from ROCOR, some joining with Greek [[Old Calendarists|Old Calendarist]] groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[June 21]], 2005, it was announced simultaneously by both the ROCOR and the MP on their respective websites that rapprochement talks were leading toward the resumption of full relations between the ROCOR and the MP and that the ROCOR would be given the status of [[autonomy]].[http://www.mospat.ru/text/e_news/id/9553.html][http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/docs.html]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In May 2006, the ROCOR met in its IV All-Diaspora Council, which was held at Most Holy Theotokos Joy of All Who Sorrow Cathedral in San Francisco, California. The council consisted of clergy and lay delegates from all dioceses of the ROCOR, and adopted a resolution, expressing &amp;quot;great hope that in the appropriate time, the unity of the Russian Church will be restored upon the foundation of the Truth of Christ, opening for us the possibility to serve together and to commune from one Chalice.&amp;quot;[http://www.sobor2006.com/more2.php?id=99_0_3_0_M45] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following the IV All-Diaspora Council, the Council of Bishops of the ROCOR was held. According to sources close to the council, it generally agreed with the text of the proposed &amp;quot;[[Act of Canonical Communion with the Moscow Patriarchate|Act of Canonical Unity]],&amp;quot; but remitted it back to the Committee for Dialogue with the Moscow Patriarchate to rework certain aspects of the document.{{citation}} The exact nature of the elements to be worked out is unclear, but, according to sources close to the Synod of Bishops, involves, among other things, property issues in the Holy Land.{{citation}} &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On September 6, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR decreed their confirmation and approval of the revised Act of Canonical Unity and instructed the Commission on Discussion with the Moscow Patriarchate to work jointly with the Moscow Patriarchate to work out details of the official signing of the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktko.html] Subsequently on September 11, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR published on ROCOR's website a clarification of their decision to confirm and approve the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktexplanantion.html] Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and All Russia acknowledged the work of the commissions and declared that the act of reunification, while moving in the right direction, will take time. [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&amp;amp;div=1977]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia published on their respective websites the final full text of the Act of Canonical Unity [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_akt.html] with all relevant supporting documents [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_addendum.html] [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/11ensummation.html] on November 1, 2006. The Act having been approved by both the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR, it was formally signed in Moscow on May 17, 2007, followed by a concelebration of the Divine Liturgy, bringing the ROCOR into the Moscow Patriarchate. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Act itself &amp;quot;repealed&amp;quot; the ROCOR anathema against ecumenism, which states:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Those who attack the Church of Christ by teaching that Christ's Church is divided into so-called &amp;quot;branches&amp;quot; which differ in doctrine and way of life, or that the Church does not exist visibly, but will be formed in the future when all &amp;quot;branches&amp;quot; or sects or denominations, and even religions will be united into one body; and who do not distinguish the priesthood and mysteries of the Church from those of the heretics, but say that the baptism and eucharist of heretics is effectual for salvation; therefore, to those who knowingly have communion with these aforementioned heretics or who advocate, disseminate, or defend their new heresy of Ecumenism under the pretext of brotherly love or the supposed unification of separated Christians, Anathema!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR is now officially in communion with those groups it formally anathematized.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===ROCOR Today===&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR currently has over 400 [[parish]]es as well as [[monastery|monasteries]] for men and women in 40 countries throughout the world, served by nearly 600 [[priest]]s.  In North America, it has approximately 133 parishes in the US and 22 in Canada.  There are three ROCOR communities in the United Kingdom and 21 in [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]].  There are also roughly 100 communities which owe allegiance to ROCOR in Russia and the other nations of the former Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are five ROCOR monasteries for men and women in North America, the most important and largest of which is [[Holy Trinity Monastery (Jordanville, New York)]], to which is attached ROCOR's seminary, [[Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary (Jordanville, New York)|Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In concert with the [[Church of Jerusalem]], ROCOR also oversees the [http://www.jerusalem-mission.org/ Russian Ecclesiastical Mission in Jerusalem], headed by Hegumen Andronik (Kotliaroff), which acts as caretaker to three holy sites in Palestine, all of which are monasteries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While still respecting the old calender, ROCOR is in communion with most, if not all new calender jurisdictions.  ROCOR is also openly serving with the OCA, Orthodox Church of America, a new calender jurisdiction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Ecclesiastical status before 2007==&lt;br /&gt;
Until the reconciliation with Moscow in 2007, the ROCOR was in relative [[Eucharist]]ic isolation from much of the Orthodox world, not always exchanging [[full communion]] with the majority of Orthodox [[jurisdiction]]s.  It maintained good relations, intercommunion, and [[concelebration]] with the [[Church of Serbia]], the [[Church of Jerusalem]], and the [[Church of Sinai]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Before the reconciliation, ROCOR's status with regard to [[full communion]] was not entirely clear-cut.  There was never a formal declaration of a break in communion made between ROCOR and most other Orthodox churches, though in many dioceses [[concelebration]] had been suspended.  In others, concelebration was active. A formal declaration of breaking communion with the OCA was issued by the ROCOR Synod after the Moscow Patriarchate issued the Tomos of Autocephaly to the OCA. (See: [[ROCOR and OCA]].) Generally Orthodox Christians from all local Orthodox churches were welcome to the chalice in ROCOR churches.  There was never a declaration from the ROCOR synod that grace did not exist in the [[New Calendar]] jurisdictions, in spite of statements to the contrary by the followers of Holy Transfiguation Monastery in Boston when they were still with the Synod.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR formerly maintained communion with a few [[Old Calendarist]] jurisdictions, including the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] (True Orthodox Church of Greece, so-called &amp;quot;Cyprianites&amp;quot;), the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Romania]] (Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie), and the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Bulgaria]] (Bishop Photii).  In 2006, communion with the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] was suspended, after the ROCOR Synod received a letter from Metropolitan Cyprian of Oropos and Fili stating that Metropolitan Laurus' name had been &amp;quot;struck from the diptych.&amp;quot; [http://www.synod.com/synod/eng2006/2ensynodmeeting.html] Relations with the Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie and with Bishop Photii of Triaditza were subsequently severed as well.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As of 2007, with the reconciliation with Moscow, the ROCOR is now in communion with [[List of autocephalous and autonomous churches|all of mainstream Orthodoxy]] by virtue of its incorporation into the Moscow Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Episcopacy==&lt;br /&gt;
The Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia currently has 13 [[bishop]]s serving 11 [[diocese]]s throughout the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ruling bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus (Skurla)]] of New York and Eastern America, First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, Ruling Bishop of the Syracuse-Holy Trinity Diocese, ''[[Locum Tenens]]'' of the Eastern part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Alypy (Gamanovich) of Chicago|Alypy (Gamanovich)]] of Chicago and Mid-America&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Mark (Arndt) of Berlin|Mark (Arndt)]] of Berlin, Germany and of Great Britain&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Hilarion (Kapral) of Sydney|Hilarion (Kapral)]] of Sydney, [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Kyrill (Dmitrieff) of San Francisco|Kyrill (Dmitrieff)]] of San Francisco and Western America, Locum Tenens of the Western part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Michael (Donskoff) of Geneva|Michael (Donskoff)]] of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vicar bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Evtikhii (Kurochkin) of Ishim|Evtikhii (Kurochkin)]] of Domodedovo, Patriarchal Vicar for the service of Synodal parishes in Russia&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Daniel (Alexandrow) of Erie|Daniel (Alexandrow)]] of Erie, Vicar of the President of the Synod of Bishops for the service of Old Believers&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Gabriel (Chemodakov) of Manhattan|Gabriel (Chemodakov)]] of Manhattan, Vicar of the Eastern American and New York Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agapit (Gorachek) of Stuttgart|Agapit (Gorachek)]] of Stuttgart, Vicar of the German Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Peter (Loukianoff) of Cleveland|Peter (Loukianoff)]] of Cleveland, Vicar of the Chicago Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Retired bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Ambrose (Cantacuzène) of Geneva|Ambrose (Cantacuzène)]], Retired, formerly of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Varnava (Prokofiev) of Cannes|Varnava (Prokofiev)]], Retired, formerly of Cannes, Vicar for the Western European diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Suspended bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agafangel (Pashkovsky) of Simferopol|Agafangel (Pashkovsky)]], suspended. Formerly bishop of Odessa and the Crimea&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Former bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Alexander (Mileant) of Buenos Aires|Alexander (Mileant)]] of Buenos Aires and South America (reposed [[September 13]], 2005 [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/news05/balexdeath.html])&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Mitrophan (Znosko-Borovsky) of Boston]], reposed February 15, 2002.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[ROCOR and OCA]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/ Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, Russian)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, English)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.roca.org/ ROCA: A collection of Russian Orthodox Materials] (Unofficial site)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/roca_history.aspx History of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad], by St. [[John Maximovitch]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://gnisios.narod.ru/bisrocor.html Bishops of the ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/svassasobor.htm &amp;quot;Glory be to God, Who Did Not Abandon His Church&amp;quot;: The Self-Awareness of ROCOR at the Third All-Diaspora Council of 1974], by Nun Vassa (Larin)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--- * [http://www.pravos.org/index.htm Commission Dialogue Moscow Patriarchate-Church outside Russia] ---&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/voicesofreason.htm Voices of Reason], a collection of articles in response to those who oppose the reconciliation of ROCOR with the MP&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Featured Articles]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Jurisdictions]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Moscow Patriarchate Dioceses]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia</id>
		<title>Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia"/>
				<updated>2007-12-12T01:08:50Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* Rapprochement with Moscow */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{diocese|&lt;br /&gt;
name=Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia|&lt;br /&gt;
jurisdiction=[[Church of Russia|Russia]] |&lt;br /&gt;
type=Semi-autonomous|&lt;br /&gt;
founded=1922|&lt;br /&gt;
bishop=[[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Metr. Laurus]]|&lt;br /&gt;
see=New York|&lt;br /&gt;
hq=New York, New York|&lt;br /&gt;
territory=United States, worldwide|&lt;br /&gt;
language=[[Church Slavonic]], English, German|&lt;br /&gt;
music=[[Russian Chant]]|&lt;br /&gt;
calendar=[[Julian Calendar|Julian]]|&lt;br /&gt;
population=60,000 to 100,000|&lt;br /&gt;
website=[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
The '''Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia''' (also called the ''Russian Orthodox Church Abroad'', ''ROCA'', ''ROCOR'', ''the Karlovsty Synod'', or ''the Synod'') is a semi-[[autonomy|autonomous]] [[jurisdiction]] of the [[Moscow Patriarchate]] originally formed in response against the policy of Bolsheviks with respect to religion in the Soviet Union soon after the Russian Revolution.  The ROCOR exists overlapping with previously existing [[diocese]]s of the Moscow Patriarchate throughout the [[diaspora]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
===Formation and early years===&lt;br /&gt;
In 1920, the Soviet government had revealed that it was quite hostile to the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].  Saint [[Tikhon of Moscow|Tikhon]], Patriarch of Moscow, issued an ''[[Ukaz No. 362|ukaz]]'' (decree) that all Russian Orthodox Christians abroad currently under the authority and protection of his Patriarchate organize and govern themselves independently of the Mother Church, until such time that the Patriarchate would again be free.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among most Russian [[bishop]]s and other hierarchs, this was interpreted as an authorization to form an emergency [[synod]] of all Russian Orthodox hierarchs to permit the Church to continue to function outside Russia and provide spiritual care for nearly three million Russian emigres. To add urgency to the synod's motives, in May of 1922, the Soviet government proclaimed its own &amp;quot;[[Living Church]]&amp;quot; as a &amp;quot;reform&amp;quot; of the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[September 13]], 1922, Russian Orthodox hierarchs in Serbia gave their blessing to the establishment, in Serbia, of a Synod of Bishops of the Russian Church Abroad, the foundation of ROCOR.  In November of 1922, Russian Orthodox in North America held a synod and elected Metropolitan [[Platon (Rozhdestvensky) of New York|Platon]] as the primate of an autonomous Russian exarchate in the Americas (also known as the ''Metropolia'', which eventually became the [[Orthodox Church in America]]).  Although the hierarchs of the Metropolia participated as full equals in the Synod Abroad, eventually a three-way conflict in the United States erupted between the patriarchal exarchate, ROCOR (sometimes known as &amp;quot;the Synod&amp;quot; in this period), and the [[Living Church]], which asserted that it was the legitimate (i.e., Russian-government-recognized) owner of all Orthodox properties in the USA.  (See:  [[ROCOR and OCA]])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===The Church of the Refugees (1922-1991)===&lt;br /&gt;
{{orthodoxyinamerica}}&lt;br /&gt;
In 1927, ROCOR declared &amp;quot;The part of the Russian Church that finds itself abroad considers itself an inseparable, spiritually united branch of the Great Russian Church. It does not separate itself from its Mother Church and does not consider itself autocephalous,&amp;quot; indicating that ROCOR considered itself to speak for all of the Russian Orthodox outside of Russia.  The Church Abroad also considered itself to be the free voice of the enslaved Mother Church in the Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the end of World War II, the [[Church of Russia|Patriarchate of Moscow]] broached the possibility of reunification between Moscow and ROCOR, presumably at the behest of the Soviet government, which had adopted a more conciliatory attitude towards religion during the war and was presumably trying to capitalize on its wartime alliances to win a more respectable position internationally. This was not deemed possible at that time by ROCOR, given that Russia was still under communist dictatorship and the Church was still persecuted and controlled by the atheist authorities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Holy Transfiguration Monastery and ROCOR===&lt;br /&gt;
In the 1960s, ROCOR took under its care [[Holy Transfiguration Monastery (Brookline, Massachusetts)]] (today the principal [[monastery]] of [[HOCNA]]) after the latter had broken communion from the [[Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America]] due to its ecumenical leanings.  At some point later, they gradually assumed responsibility for much of ROCOR's external communications and publications. (The monks of Holy Transfiguration were English-speaking and the ROCOR bishops in America mainly were not.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The monastery represented the traditional views of Orthodoxy, which were not always embraced by ROCOR.  In 1983, ROCOR anathamatized the heresy of ecumenism.  Due to issues of faith and ecclesiology, Holy Transfiguration Monastery broke communion with ROCOR after the repose of Metropolitan Philaret.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===After the Soviet fall===&lt;br /&gt;
Since the end of the Soviet Union, ROCOR maintained its independence from the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]] on the grounds that the Church inside Russia had been unacceptably compromised. Some accusations went so far as to claim that the entire hierarchy within Russia were active KGB agents. ROCOR also attempted to set up missions in post-Soviet Russia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This did not prevent all communication, however. For many years there had been unofficial and warm contacts between the two groups.  In 2001, the Synod of the Patriarchate of Moscow and ROCOR exchanged formal correspondence.  The Muscovite letter held the position that previous and current separation was over purely political matters.  ROCOR's response expressed concern over continued Muscovite involvement in [[ecumenism]], which was seen as compromising Moscow's Orthodoxy.  Nevertheless, this was far more friendly  discourse than had been seen previously.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia continued to establish itself in its homeland.  It now has about 100 worshiping communities in Russia and  other countries of the Commonwealth of Independent States. Currently four bishops oversee these parishes.  Two of them broke with Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] in New York in April 1994. They founded their own temporary administration called the ''Free Orthodox Church of Russia'' and ordained three additional bishops.  They were reconciled in November 1994, and the ordination of the three new bishops was declared invalid. However, some tensions remain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Rapprochement with Moscow===&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Laurus alexii signing.jpg|right|250px|thumb|The signing of the Act of Canonical Communion by Patr. Alexey II and Metr. Laurus]]&lt;br /&gt;
Since the election of Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus]] as First Hierarch of ROCOR in 2001, a steady process of rapprochement occurred between ROCOR and the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]].  Multiple official visits have been exchanged between hierarchs and other clergy of both churches, and the date for restoration of [[full communion]] was officially announced by both sides. [http://www.antiochian.org.au/content/view/587/6/]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In October 2001 Patriarch [[Alexei II (Ridiger) of Moscow|Alexei II]] and the [[Holy Synod]] of the Moscow Patriarchate sent a letter to the Bishops' Council of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia calling for reconciliation, but without success.  However, there was mutual recognition of grace in the sacraments of each church.  Then, in November 2003, a delegation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia consisting of three bishops and two priests paid an official visit to the Moscow Patriarchate. This signaled a warming in relations, and in May 2004 for the first time since the foundation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, the First Hierarch of ROCOR, Metropolitan Laurus, visited Moscow and met with Patriarch Alexei.  The two church leaders established a joint committee to examine ways to overcome the division between their churches.  This committee met successfully on several occasions, working out the details of intercommunion between the two Church bodies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This possibility of rapprochement led to a small [[schism]] from ROCOR, taking the self-retired Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] (Metropolitan Laurus's predecessor) with it (regarded by many in ROCOR as having been abducted by the schismatics).  The resultant body refers to itself as the ''[[Russian Orthodox Church in Exile]]'' (ROCE/ROCiE), though it often still uses the ''ROCOR'' name.  A few other communities have also broken off from ROCOR, some joining with Greek [[Old Calendarists|Old Calendarist]] groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[June 21]], 2005, it was announced simultaneously by both the ROCOR and the MP on their respective websites that rapprochement talks were leading toward the resumption of full relations between the ROCOR and the MP and that the ROCOR would be given the status of [[autonomy]].[http://www.mospat.ru/text/e_news/id/9553.html][http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/docs.html]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In May 2006, the ROCOR met in its IV All-Diaspora Council, which was held at Most Holy Theotokos Joy of All Who Sorrow Cathedral in San Francisco, California. The council consisted of clergy and lay delegates from all dioceses of the ROCOR, and adopted a resolution, expressing &amp;quot;great hope that in the appropriate time, the unity of the Russian Church will be restored upon the foundation of the Truth of Christ, opening for us the possibility to serve together and to commune from one Chalice.&amp;quot;[http://www.sobor2006.com/more2.php?id=99_0_3_0_M45] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following the IV All-Diaspora Council, the Council of Bishops of the ROCOR was held. According to sources close to the council, it generally agreed with the text of the proposed &amp;quot;[[Act of Canonical Communion with the Moscow Patriarchate|Act of Canonical Unity]],&amp;quot; but remitted it back to the Committee for Dialogue with the Moscow Patriarchate to rework certain aspects of the document.{{citation}} The exact nature of the elements to be worked out is unclear, but, according to sources close to the Synod of Bishops, involves, among other things, property issues in the Holy Land.{{citation}} &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On September 6, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR decreed their confirmation and approval of the revised Act of Canonical Unity and instructed the Commission on Discussion with the Moscow Patriarchate to work jointly with the Moscow Patriarchate to work out details of the official signing of the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktko.html] Subsequently on September 11, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR published on ROCOR's website a clarification of their decision to confirm and approve the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktexplanantion.html] Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and All Russia acknowledged the work of the commissions and declared that the act of reunification, while moving in the right direction, will take time. [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&amp;amp;div=1977]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia published on their respective websites the final full text of the Act of Canonical Unity [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_akt.html] with all relevant supporting documents [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_addendum.html] [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/11ensummation.html] on November 1, 2006. The Act having been approved by both the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR, it was formally signed in Moscow on May 17, 2007, followed by a concelebration of the Divine Liturgy, bringing the ROCOR into the Moscow Patriarchate. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Act itself &amp;quot;repealed&amp;quot; the ROCOR anathema against ecumenism, which states:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Those who attack the Church of Christ by teaching that Christ's Church is divided into so-called &amp;quot;branches&amp;quot; which differ in doctrine and way of life, or that the Church does not exist visibly, but will be formed in the future when all &amp;quot;branches&amp;quot; or sects or denominations, and even religions will be united into one body; and who do not distinguish the priesthood and mysteries of the Church from those of the heretics, but say that the baptism and eucharist of heretics is effectual for salvation; therefore, to those who knowingly have communion with these aforementioned heretics or who advocate, disseminate, or defend their new heresy of Ecumenism under the pretext of brotherly love or the supposed unification of separated Christians, Anathema!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR is now officially in communion with those groups it formally anathematized.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===ROCOR Today===&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR currently has over 400 [[parish]]es as well as [[monastery|monasteries]] for men and women in 40 countries throughout the world, served by nearly 600 [[priest]]s.  In North America, it has approximately 133 parishes in the US and 22 in Canada.  There are three ROCOR communities in the United Kingdom and 21 in [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]].  There are also roughly 100 communities which owe allegiance to ROCOR in Russia and the other nations of the former Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are five ROCOR monasteries for men and women in North America, the most important and largest of which is [[Holy Trinity Monastery (Jordanville, New York)]], to which is attached ROCOR's seminary, [[Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary (Jordanville, New York)|Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In concert with the [[Church of Jerusalem]], ROCOR also oversees the [http://www.jerusalem-mission.org/ Russian Ecclesiastical Mission in Jerusalem], headed by Hegumen Andronik (Kotliaroff), which acts as caretaker to three holy sites in Palestine, all of which are monasteries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Ecclesiastical status before 2007==&lt;br /&gt;
Until the reconciliation with Moscow in 2007, the ROCOR was in relative [[Eucharist]]ic isolation from much of the Orthodox world, not always exchanging [[full communion]] with the majority of Orthodox [[jurisdiction]]s.  It maintained good relations, intercommunion, and [[concelebration]] with the [[Church of Serbia]], the [[Church of Jerusalem]], and the [[Church of Sinai]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Before the reconciliation, ROCOR's status with regard to [[full communion]] was not entirely clear-cut.  There was never a formal declaration of a break in communion made between ROCOR and most other Orthodox churches, though in many dioceses [[concelebration]] had been suspended.  In others, concelebration was active. A formal declaration of breaking communion with the OCA was issued by the ROCOR Synod after the Moscow Patriarchate issued the Tomos of Autocephaly to the OCA. (See: [[ROCOR and OCA]].) Generally Orthodox Christians from all local Orthodox churches were welcome to the chalice in ROCOR churches.  There was never a declaration from the ROCOR synod that grace did not exist in the [[New Calendar]] jurisdictions, in spite of statements to the contrary by the followers of Holy Transfiguation Monastery in Boston when they were still with the Synod.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR formerly maintained communion with a few [[Old Calendarist]] jurisdictions, including the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] (True Orthodox Church of Greece, so-called &amp;quot;Cyprianites&amp;quot;), the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Romania]] (Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie), and the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Bulgaria]] (Bishop Photii).  In 2006, communion with the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] was suspended, after the ROCOR Synod received a letter from Metropolitan Cyprian of Oropos and Fili stating that Metropolitan Laurus' name had been &amp;quot;struck from the diptych.&amp;quot; [http://www.synod.com/synod/eng2006/2ensynodmeeting.html] Relations with the Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie and with Bishop Photii of Triaditza were subsequently severed as well.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As of 2007, with the reconciliation with Moscow, the ROCOR is now in communion with [[List of autocephalous and autonomous churches|all of mainstream Orthodoxy]] by virtue of its incorporation into the Moscow Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Episcopacy==&lt;br /&gt;
The Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia currently has 13 [[bishop]]s serving 11 [[diocese]]s throughout the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ruling bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus (Skurla)]] of New York and Eastern America, First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, Ruling Bishop of the Syracuse-Holy Trinity Diocese, ''[[Locum Tenens]]'' of the Eastern part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Alypy (Gamanovich) of Chicago|Alypy (Gamanovich)]] of Chicago and Mid-America&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Mark (Arndt) of Berlin|Mark (Arndt)]] of Berlin, Germany and of Great Britain&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Hilarion (Kapral) of Sydney|Hilarion (Kapral)]] of Sydney, [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Kyrill (Dmitrieff) of San Francisco|Kyrill (Dmitrieff)]] of San Francisco and Western America, Locum Tenens of the Western part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Michael (Donskoff) of Geneva|Michael (Donskoff)]] of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vicar bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Evtikhii (Kurochkin) of Ishim|Evtikhii (Kurochkin)]] of Domodedovo, Patriarchal Vicar for the service of Synodal parishes in Russia&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Daniel (Alexandrow) of Erie|Daniel (Alexandrow)]] of Erie, Vicar of the President of the Synod of Bishops for the service of Old Believers&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Gabriel (Chemodakov) of Manhattan|Gabriel (Chemodakov)]] of Manhattan, Vicar of the Eastern American and New York Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agapit (Gorachek) of Stuttgart|Agapit (Gorachek)]] of Stuttgart, Vicar of the German Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Peter (Loukianoff) of Cleveland|Peter (Loukianoff)]] of Cleveland, Vicar of the Chicago Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Retired bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Ambrose (Cantacuzène) of Geneva|Ambrose (Cantacuzène)]], Retired, formerly of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Varnava (Prokofiev) of Cannes|Varnava (Prokofiev)]], Retired, formerly of Cannes, Vicar for the Western European diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Suspended bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agafangel (Pashkovsky) of Simferopol|Agafangel (Pashkovsky)]], suspended. Formerly bishop of Odessa and the Crimea&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Former bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Alexander (Mileant) of Buenos Aires|Alexander (Mileant)]] of Buenos Aires and South America (reposed [[September 13]], 2005 [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/news05/balexdeath.html])&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Mitrophan (Znosko-Borovsky) of Boston]], reposed February 15, 2002.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[ROCOR and OCA]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/ Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, Russian)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, English)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.roca.org/ ROCA: A collection of Russian Orthodox Materials] (Unofficial site)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/roca_history.aspx History of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad], by St. [[John Maximovitch]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://gnisios.narod.ru/bisrocor.html Bishops of the ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/svassasobor.htm &amp;quot;Glory be to God, Who Did Not Abandon His Church&amp;quot;: The Self-Awareness of ROCOR at the Third All-Diaspora Council of 1974], by Nun Vassa (Larin)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--- * [http://www.pravos.org/index.htm Commission Dialogue Moscow Patriarchate-Church outside Russia] ---&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/voicesofreason.htm Voices of Reason], a collection of articles in response to those who oppose the reconciliation of ROCOR with the MP&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Featured Articles]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Jurisdictions]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Moscow Patriarchate Dioceses]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia</id>
		<title>Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Russian_Orthodox_Church_Outside_Russia"/>
				<updated>2007-12-12T01:01:08Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Samson1957: /* Holy Transfiguration Monastery and ROCOR */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{diocese|&lt;br /&gt;
name=Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia|&lt;br /&gt;
jurisdiction=[[Church of Russia|Russia]] |&lt;br /&gt;
type=Semi-autonomous|&lt;br /&gt;
founded=1922|&lt;br /&gt;
bishop=[[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Metr. Laurus]]|&lt;br /&gt;
see=New York|&lt;br /&gt;
hq=New York, New York|&lt;br /&gt;
territory=United States, worldwide|&lt;br /&gt;
language=[[Church Slavonic]], English, German|&lt;br /&gt;
music=[[Russian Chant]]|&lt;br /&gt;
calendar=[[Julian Calendar|Julian]]|&lt;br /&gt;
population=60,000 to 100,000|&lt;br /&gt;
website=[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
The '''Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia''' (also called the ''Russian Orthodox Church Abroad'', ''ROCA'', ''ROCOR'', ''the Karlovsty Synod'', or ''the Synod'') is a semi-[[autonomy|autonomous]] [[jurisdiction]] of the [[Moscow Patriarchate]] originally formed in response against the policy of Bolsheviks with respect to religion in the Soviet Union soon after the Russian Revolution.  The ROCOR exists overlapping with previously existing [[diocese]]s of the Moscow Patriarchate throughout the [[diaspora]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
===Formation and early years===&lt;br /&gt;
In 1920, the Soviet government had revealed that it was quite hostile to the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].  Saint [[Tikhon of Moscow|Tikhon]], Patriarch of Moscow, issued an ''[[Ukaz No. 362|ukaz]]'' (decree) that all Russian Orthodox Christians abroad currently under the authority and protection of his Patriarchate organize and govern themselves independently of the Mother Church, until such time that the Patriarchate would again be free.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among most Russian [[bishop]]s and other hierarchs, this was interpreted as an authorization to form an emergency [[synod]] of all Russian Orthodox hierarchs to permit the Church to continue to function outside Russia and provide spiritual care for nearly three million Russian emigres. To add urgency to the synod's motives, in May of 1922, the Soviet government proclaimed its own &amp;quot;[[Living Church]]&amp;quot; as a &amp;quot;reform&amp;quot; of the [[Church of Russia|Russian Orthodox Church]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[September 13]], 1922, Russian Orthodox hierarchs in Serbia gave their blessing to the establishment, in Serbia, of a Synod of Bishops of the Russian Church Abroad, the foundation of ROCOR.  In November of 1922, Russian Orthodox in North America held a synod and elected Metropolitan [[Platon (Rozhdestvensky) of New York|Platon]] as the primate of an autonomous Russian exarchate in the Americas (also known as the ''Metropolia'', which eventually became the [[Orthodox Church in America]]).  Although the hierarchs of the Metropolia participated as full equals in the Synod Abroad, eventually a three-way conflict in the United States erupted between the patriarchal exarchate, ROCOR (sometimes known as &amp;quot;the Synod&amp;quot; in this period), and the [[Living Church]], which asserted that it was the legitimate (i.e., Russian-government-recognized) owner of all Orthodox properties in the USA.  (See:  [[ROCOR and OCA]])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===The Church of the Refugees (1922-1991)===&lt;br /&gt;
{{orthodoxyinamerica}}&lt;br /&gt;
In 1927, ROCOR declared &amp;quot;The part of the Russian Church that finds itself abroad considers itself an inseparable, spiritually united branch of the Great Russian Church. It does not separate itself from its Mother Church and does not consider itself autocephalous,&amp;quot; indicating that ROCOR considered itself to speak for all of the Russian Orthodox outside of Russia.  The Church Abroad also considered itself to be the free voice of the enslaved Mother Church in the Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the end of World War II, the [[Church of Russia|Patriarchate of Moscow]] broached the possibility of reunification between Moscow and ROCOR, presumably at the behest of the Soviet government, which had adopted a more conciliatory attitude towards religion during the war and was presumably trying to capitalize on its wartime alliances to win a more respectable position internationally. This was not deemed possible at that time by ROCOR, given that Russia was still under communist dictatorship and the Church was still persecuted and controlled by the atheist authorities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Holy Transfiguration Monastery and ROCOR===&lt;br /&gt;
In the 1960s, ROCOR took under its care [[Holy Transfiguration Monastery (Brookline, Massachusetts)]] (today the principal [[monastery]] of [[HOCNA]]) after the latter had broken communion from the [[Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America]] due to its ecumenical leanings.  At some point later, they gradually assumed responsibility for much of ROCOR's external communications and publications. (The monks of Holy Transfiguration were English-speaking and the ROCOR bishops in America mainly were not.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The monastery represented the traditional views of Orthodoxy, which were not always embraced by ROCOR.  In 1983, ROCOR anathamatized the heresy of ecumenism.  Due to issues of faith and ecclesiology, Holy Transfiguration Monastery broke communion with ROCOR after the repose of Metropolitan Philaret.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===After the Soviet fall===&lt;br /&gt;
Since the end of the Soviet Union, ROCOR maintained its independence from the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]] on the grounds that the Church inside Russia had been unacceptably compromised. Some accusations went so far as to claim that the entire hierarchy within Russia were active KGB agents. ROCOR also attempted to set up missions in post-Soviet Russia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This did not prevent all communication, however. For many years there had been unofficial and warm contacts between the two groups.  In 2001, the Synod of the Patriarchate of Moscow and ROCOR exchanged formal correspondence.  The Muscovite letter held the position that previous and current separation was over purely political matters.  ROCOR's response expressed concern over continued Muscovite involvement in [[ecumenism]], which was seen as compromising Moscow's Orthodoxy.  Nevertheless, this was far more friendly  discourse than had been seen previously.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia continued to establish itself in its homeland.  It now has about 100 worshiping communities in Russia and  other countries of the Commonwealth of Independent States. Currently four bishops oversee these parishes.  Two of them broke with Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] in New York in April 1994. They founded their own temporary administration called the ''Free Orthodox Church of Russia'' and ordained three additional bishops.  They were reconciled in November 1994, and the ordination of the three new bishops was declared invalid. However, some tensions remain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Rapprochement with Moscow===&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Laurus alexii signing.jpg|right|250px|thumb|The signing of the Act of Canonical Communion by Patr. Alexey II and Metr. Laurus]]&lt;br /&gt;
Since the election of Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus]] as First Hierarch of ROCOR in 2001, a steady process of rapprochement occurred between ROCOR and the [[Church of Russia|Moscow Patriarchate]].  Multiple official visits have been exchanged between hierarchs and other clergy of both churches, and the date for restoration of [[full communion]] was officially announced by both sides. [http://www.antiochian.org.au/content/view/587/6/]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In October 2001 Patriarch [[Alexei II (Ridiger) of Moscow|Alexei II]] and the [[Holy Synod]] of the Moscow Patriarchate sent a letter to the Bishops' Council of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia calling for reconciliation, but without success.  However, there was mutual recognition of grace in the sacraments of each church.  Then, in November 2003, a delegation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia consisting of three bishops and two priests paid an official visit to the Moscow Patriarchate. This signaled a warming in relations, and in May 2004 for the first time since the foundation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, the First Hierarch of ROCOR, Metropolitan Laurus, visited Moscow and met with Patriarch Alexei.  The two church leaders established a joint committee to examine ways to overcome the division between their churches.  This committee met successfully on several occasions, working out the details of intercommunion between the two Church bodies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This possibility of rapprochement led to a small [[schism]] from ROCOR, taking the self-retired Metropolitan [[Vitaly (Ustinov) of New York|Vitaly]] (Metropolitan Laurus's predecessor) with it (regarded by many in ROCOR as having been abducted by the schismatics).  The resultant body refers to itself as the ''[[Russian Orthodox Church in Exile]]'' (ROCE/ROCiE), though it often still uses the ''ROCOR'' name.  A few other communities have also broken off from ROCOR, some joining with Greek [[Old Calendarists|Old Calendarist]] groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [[June 21]], 2005, it was announced simultaneously by both the ROCOR and the MP on their respective websites that rapprochement talks were leading toward the resumption of full relations between the ROCOR and the MP and that the ROCOR would be given the status of [[autonomy]].[http://www.mospat.ru/text/e_news/id/9553.html][http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/docs.html]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In May 2006, the ROCOR met in its IV All-Diaspora Council, which was held at Most Holy Theotokos Joy of All Who Sorrow Cathedral in San Francisco, California. The council consisted of clergy and lay delegates from all dioceses of the ROCOR, and adopted a resolution, expressing &amp;quot;great hope that in the appropriate time, the unity of the Russian Church will be restored upon the foundation of the Truth of Christ, opening for us the possibility to serve together and to commune from one Chalice.&amp;quot;[http://www.sobor2006.com/more2.php?id=99_0_3_0_M45] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following the IV All-Diaspora Council, the Council of Bishops of the ROCOR was held. According to sources close to the council, it generally agreed with the text of the proposed &amp;quot;[[Act of Canonical Communion with the Moscow Patriarchate|Act of Canonical Unity]],&amp;quot; but remitted it back to the Committee for Dialogue with the Moscow Patriarchate to rework certain aspects of the document.{{citation}} The exact nature of the elements to be worked out is unclear, but, according to sources close to the Synod of Bishops, involves, among other things, property issues in the Holy Land.{{citation}} &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On September 6, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR decreed their confirmation and approval of the revised Act of Canonical Unity and instructed the Commission on Discussion with the Moscow Patriarchate to work jointly with the Moscow Patriarchate to work out details of the official signing of the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktko.html] Subsequently on September 11, 2006 The Synod of Bishops of ROCOR published on ROCOR's website a clarification of their decision to confirm and approve the Act. [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/9enaktexplanantion.html] Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and All Russia acknowledged the work of the commissions and declared that the act of reunification, while moving in the right direction, will take time. [http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&amp;amp;div=1977]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia published on their respective websites the final full text of the Act of Canonical Unity [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_akt.html] with all relevant supporting documents [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_addendum.html] [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/eng2006/11ensummation.html] on November 1, 2006. The Act having been approved by both the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR, it was formally signed in Moscow on May 17, 2007, followed by a concelebration of the Divine Liturgy, bringing the ROCOR into the Moscow Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
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===ROCOR Today===&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR currently has over 400 [[parish]]es as well as [[monastery|monasteries]] for men and women in 40 countries throughout the world, served by nearly 600 [[priest]]s.  In North America, it has approximately 133 parishes in the US and 22 in Canada.  There are three ROCOR communities in the United Kingdom and 21 in [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]].  There are also roughly 100 communities which owe allegiance to ROCOR in Russia and the other nations of the former Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are five ROCOR monasteries for men and women in North America, the most important and largest of which is [[Holy Trinity Monastery (Jordanville, New York)]], to which is attached ROCOR's seminary, [[Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary (Jordanville, New York)|Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary]].&lt;br /&gt;
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In concert with the [[Church of Jerusalem]], ROCOR also oversees the [http://www.jerusalem-mission.org/ Russian Ecclesiastical Mission in Jerusalem], headed by Hegumen Andronik (Kotliaroff), which acts as caretaker to three holy sites in Palestine, all of which are monasteries.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Ecclesiastical status before 2007==&lt;br /&gt;
Until the reconciliation with Moscow in 2007, the ROCOR was in relative [[Eucharist]]ic isolation from much of the Orthodox world, not always exchanging [[full communion]] with the majority of Orthodox [[jurisdiction]]s.  It maintained good relations, intercommunion, and [[concelebration]] with the [[Church of Serbia]], the [[Church of Jerusalem]], and the [[Church of Sinai]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Before the reconciliation, ROCOR's status with regard to [[full communion]] was not entirely clear-cut.  There was never a formal declaration of a break in communion made between ROCOR and most other Orthodox churches, though in many dioceses [[concelebration]] had been suspended.  In others, concelebration was active. A formal declaration of breaking communion with the OCA was issued by the ROCOR Synod after the Moscow Patriarchate issued the Tomos of Autocephaly to the OCA. (See: [[ROCOR and OCA]].) Generally Orthodox Christians from all local Orthodox churches were welcome to the chalice in ROCOR churches.  There was never a declaration from the ROCOR synod that grace did not exist in the [[New Calendar]] jurisdictions, in spite of statements to the contrary by the followers of Holy Transfiguation Monastery in Boston when they were still with the Synod.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ROCOR formerly maintained communion with a few [[Old Calendarist]] jurisdictions, including the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] (True Orthodox Church of Greece, so-called &amp;quot;Cyprianites&amp;quot;), the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Romania]] (Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie), and the [[Old Calendar Orthodox Church of Bulgaria]] (Bishop Photii).  In 2006, communion with the [[Holy Synod in Resistance]] was suspended, after the ROCOR Synod received a letter from Metropolitan Cyprian of Oropos and Fili stating that Metropolitan Laurus' name had been &amp;quot;struck from the diptych.&amp;quot; [http://www.synod.com/synod/eng2006/2ensynodmeeting.html] Relations with the Synod of Metropolitan Vlasie and with Bishop Photii of Triaditza were subsequently severed as well.  &lt;br /&gt;
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As of 2007, with the reconciliation with Moscow, the ROCOR is now in communion with [[List of autocephalous and autonomous churches|all of mainstream Orthodoxy]] by virtue of its incorporation into the Moscow Patriarchate.&lt;br /&gt;
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==The Episcopacy==&lt;br /&gt;
The Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia currently has 13 [[bishop]]s serving 11 [[diocese]]s throughout the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ruling bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Metropolitan [[Laurus (Skurla) of New York|Laurus (Skurla)]] of New York and Eastern America, First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, Ruling Bishop of the Syracuse-Holy Trinity Diocese, ''[[Locum Tenens]]'' of the Eastern part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Alypy (Gamanovich) of Chicago|Alypy (Gamanovich)]] of Chicago and Mid-America&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Mark (Arndt) of Berlin|Mark (Arndt)]] of Berlin, Germany and of Great Britain&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Hilarion (Kapral) of Sydney|Hilarion (Kapral)]] of Sydney, [[Diocese of Australia and New Zealand (ROCOR)|Australia and New Zealand]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Archbishop [[Kyrill (Dmitrieff) of San Francisco|Kyrill (Dmitrieff)]] of San Francisco and Western America, Locum Tenens of the Western part of the Diocese of Montreal and Canada&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Michael (Donskoff) of Geneva|Michael (Donskoff)]] of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vicar bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Evtikhii (Kurochkin) of Ishim|Evtikhii (Kurochkin)]] of Domodedovo, Patriarchal Vicar for the service of Synodal parishes in Russia&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Daniel (Alexandrow) of Erie|Daniel (Alexandrow)]] of Erie, Vicar of the President of the Synod of Bishops for the service of Old Believers&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Gabriel (Chemodakov) of Manhattan|Gabriel (Chemodakov)]] of Manhattan, Vicar of the Eastern American and New York Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agapit (Gorachek) of Stuttgart|Agapit (Gorachek)]] of Stuttgart, Vicar of the German Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Peter (Loukianoff) of Cleveland|Peter (Loukianoff)]] of Cleveland, Vicar of the Chicago Diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Retired bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Ambrose (Cantacuzène) of Geneva|Ambrose (Cantacuzène)]], Retired, formerly of Geneva and Western Europe&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Varnava (Prokofiev) of Cannes|Varnava (Prokofiev)]], Retired, formerly of Cannes, Vicar for the Western European diocese&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Suspended bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Agafangel (Pashkovsky) of Simferopol|Agafangel (Pashkovsky)]], suspended. Formerly bishop of Odessa and the Crimea&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Former bishops:&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Alexander (Mileant) of Buenos Aires|Alexander (Mileant)]] of Buenos Aires and South America (reposed [[September 13]], 2005 [http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/news05/balexdeath.html])&lt;br /&gt;
* Bishop [[Mitrophan (Znosko-Borovsky) of Boston]], reposed February 15, 2002.&lt;br /&gt;
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==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[ROCOR and OCA]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/ Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, Russian)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/indexeng.htm Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia] (Official site, English)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.roca.org/ ROCA: A collection of Russian Orthodox Materials] (Unofficial site)&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/roca_history.aspx History of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad], by St. [[John Maximovitch]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://gnisios.narod.ru/bisrocor.html Bishops of the ROCOR]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/svassasobor.htm &amp;quot;Glory be to God, Who Did Not Abandon His Church&amp;quot;: The Self-Awareness of ROCOR at the Third All-Diaspora Council of 1974], by Nun Vassa (Larin)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--- * [http://www.pravos.org/index.htm Commission Dialogue Moscow Patriarchate-Church outside Russia] ---&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/voicesofreason.htm Voices of Reason], a collection of articles in response to those who oppose the reconciliation of ROCOR with the MP&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Category:Featured Articles]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Jurisdictions]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Moscow Patriarchate Dioceses]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Samson1957</name></author>	</entry>

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