OrthodoxWiki - User contributions [en]

Philotheus of Pskov

2012-04-09T15:09:03Z

Kharaku:

'''Philotheus of Pskov''', also '''Filofei''' (Russian: Филофей) of Pskov, was the [[igumen]] of the Yelizarov (Spaso-Eleazar) Monastery in [[Pskov]] in the sixteenth century. He is credited with the formulation of the concept that Moscow had become the [[Third Rome]] after the [[fall of Constantinople]], the Second Rome.

==Life==
Little is known of the life of Philotheus. He was born about 1460, in what is now Ukraine, and became a [[monk]] at the Spaso-Eleazar Monastery in Pskov, Russia. He became noted for his epistles and writings among which are his letters to Grand Prince Basil III and to Tsar [[Ivan IV of Russia|Ivan IV]]. He was a supporter of the principles of the Josephites (Possessors).

Philotheus was familiar with the biblical prophecies of Ezra and Daniel, with historical precedents from Serbia, <ref>[http://www.thirdrome.com/?page_id=30 Another contender to the title of Third Rome]</ref>, and the second Bulgarian Empire, with the Apocalypse of Pseudo-Methodius and the Chronicle of Byzantine Manasses, as well as the Legend of the White Cowl. At the time such knowledge was not unique. Philotheus was unusual only in their use by him for the benefit of the princes of Muscow. Like Novgorod, Pskov lived in fear of Moscow. The monks of these cities were fiercely anti-Muscovite. When they made references in their Chronicle to Nebuchadnezzar's Dream, or to the four beasts of Daniel's Vision, they did so in a manner that identified Nebuchadnezzar with Moscow. For whatever reason, Philotheus was prepared to turn the material round to Moscow advantage.

In 1493, he held no office of authority in Eleazar monastery where he would later be the igumen or [[abbot]]. Nor had he written any of the public letters which were to make him famous. Yet the ferment within the Church that shaped his views was already in progress. In time he became an advocate of the complete submission of all Christians to the Tsar as well as total opposition to the Latin Church. In his letters to Grand Prince Basil III, to Tsar Ivan IV, and to M. G. Misiur-Munekhin, the head of administration in Pskov after its incorporation into the Russian state, Philotheus supported in his writings the principles of the Josephites as well as the theory of Moscow as the third Rome. His letters affirmed the idea of the succession of Moscow and the Russian state to the leadership of the Orthodox Christian world after Constantinople had lost that leadership with the [[fall of Constantinople]] to the [[Ottoman empire|Ottoman Turks]]. He also supported the annexation of Pskov by Moscow which occurred in 1510.

Philotheus reposed in Pskov in 1542. In 2009, archaeologists of the Pskov archaeological center, reported the discovery of Philotheus' grave in the cemetery by the Cathedral of the Three Hierarchs of the Monastery of the Saviour and St. Eleazar in Pskov. 
==Notes==
{{reflist}}

==Sources==
*[http://leninist.biz/en/1980/HORL354/4.01-15th.Century.and.16th.Century.Literature Late Fifteenth Century and Early Sixteenth Century Literature]
*[[Wikipedia:Legend_of_the_White_Cowl]]
*[[Wikipedia:Philotheus_of_Pskov]]
*[http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/thirdrome.htm Archaeologists have found the grave of Elder Philotheus]

[[Category: Monastics]]

Third Rome

2011-04-12T08:53:56Z

Kharaku: /* External links */

The idea of Moscow being the '''Third Rome''' was popular since the early Russian Tsars. Within decades after the [[Fall of Constantinople]] to Mehmed II of the [[Ottoman empire|Ottoman Empire]] on [[May 29]], 1453, some were nominating Moscow as the "Third Rome," or new "New Rome." Stirrings of this sentiment began during the reign of Ivan III, Grand Duke of Moscow, who had married Sophia Paleologue. Sophia was a niece of [[Constantine XI]], the last Eastern Roman Emperor, and Ivan could claim to be the heir of the fallen Eastern Roman Empire.

It is noteworthy that before Ivan III, Stefan Dušan, king of Serbia, and Ivan Alexander, king of Bulgaria, both related to the Byzantine dynasty, facing the decline of the Byzantine empire in the XIV century, made similar claims. Bulgarian manuscripts advanced the idea that Trnovo, the capital of the Bulgarian empire, was the new Constantinople. These plans were never realized as the Ottomans defeated Serbs at Kosovo Polje in 1389, and put an end to the Second Bulgarian Empire in 1396 with the occupation of the Despotate of Vidin. However, the rhetoric developed to this respect earlier in Trnovo was imported to Moscow by [[Cyprian of Moscow|Cyprian]], a [[clergy]]man of Bulgarian origin, who became [[Metropolitan]] of Moscow in 1381.

The idea crystallized with a panegyric letter composed by the Russian [[monk]] [[Philotheus of Pskov|Philoteus (Filofey)]] in 1510 to their son Grand Duke Vasili III, which proclaimed, "Two Romes have fallen. The third stands. And there will not be a fourth. No one will replace your Christian Tsardom!" Contrary to the common misconception, Filofey explicitly identifies Third Rome with Russia (the country) rather than with Moscow (the city).

Since Roman princesses had married Tsars of Moscow, and, since Russia had become, with the fall of Byzantium, the most powerful Orthodox Christian state, the tsars were thought of as succeeding the Byzantine Emperor as the rightful ruler of the (Christian) world. The word ''tsar'', like ''kaiser'', is derived from the word ''caesar''.

Grand Duke Ivan IV (called "the Terrible") was proclaimed the first Russian Tsar on [[January 16]], 1547. On [[November 2]], 1721, Peter I restyled himself as ''Emperor and Autocrat of All Russia''. The new title was supposed to reflect both the traditional claims of his predecessors and his success in establishing Imperial Russia as a new European power.

==Source==
*[[w:Third Rome|Wikipedia:Third Rome]]

==Reference==
* Dmytryshyn, Basil (transl). 1991. ''Medieval Russia: A Source Book, 850-1700''. 259-261. Harcourt Brace Jovanovich. Fort Worth, Texas.

==External links==
*[http://portal-credo.ru/site/print.php?act=english&id=113 Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew Denounces Moscow's "3rd Rome" Theory] (news item)
*[http://www.orthodoxengland.btinternet.co.uk/moscowtr.htm Moscow The Third Rome?], by [[ROCOR]] priest Fr. [[Andrew Phillips]]
*[http://http://www.thirdrome.com/?page_id=30 What is Third Rome, by Aleksandr Georgevich]
*[http://www.orthodoxengland.btinternet.co.uk/toward.htm Towards an All-Russian Council: Moscow The Third Rome?], by Fr. Andrew Phillips
*[http://www.oca.org/OCchapter.asp?ID=149 The Orthodox Faith: Church History: Sixteenth Century] ([[OCA]])

[[Category:Church History]]

OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza

2008-11-29T00:05:10Z

Kharaku: /* questions */ new section

In a monastery, a '''[[refectory|trapeza]]''' (or ''refectory''), is the dining hall where monks and pilgrims gather for food and conversation (although monks don't usually talk during meals). The OrthodoxWiki trapeza serves as the main discussion point for our website. Please feel free to join in—ask anything, suggest an idea, make a comment. We're glad to have you here. For other, more specifically designated discussion pages, check out the [[OrthodoxWiki:Community Portal|Community Portal]]. [[Category:OrthodoxWiki]] [[bg:Project:Трапеза]] [[el:OrthodoxWiki:Τράπεζα]] [[fr:OrthodoxWiki:La Cafétéria]] [[ro:OrthodoxWiki:Cafenea]]

* [[OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza/Archive 1|Archive 1]], Feb 2005 – Dec 2005 (formerly the [http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=OrthodoxWiki:Anything_Goes&oldid=22917 Anything Goes] page)
* [[OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza/Archive 2|Archive 2]], Feb 2005 – Aug 2006 (formerly the [http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=OrthodoxWiki:Questions&oldid=37973 Questions] page)
* [[OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza/Archive 3|Archive 3]], Oct 2005 – Aug 2006 (moved from [http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&oldid=37962 Talk:Main Page])
* [[OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza/Archive 4|Archive 4]], Aug 2006 – Dec 2006 (2006 Trapeza archive)
* [[OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza/Archive 5|Archive 5]], through November 2008

<center>
Please sign and date your comments by adding four tildes at the end: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>
{| style="border: solid 1px #aaaaaa"
|'''[http://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza&action=edit&section=new Add new post]'''
|}
</center>

== Closing down OrthodoxSource and SR ==
Friends, I apologize for being absent for awhile. Please let me know if you have any outstanding wiki issues you need to resolve! 
As of today, I am shutting down OrthodoxSource. Apologies to IXThis888, who has put in a good deal of work. However, there was not enough of a community of contibutors and moderators there, and I think it would be better for us all at this point to keep the focus on this wiki. Also, I will likely be shutting down SR soon. There has been no activity there for a long time, and I'm afraid that the required documents (about copyrights and policies) were never translated. — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk]) 12:45, November 25, 2008 (UTC)

== questions ==

hi

i have photos of the raifa monastary i would like to upload as well as a convent neasr yoshkar ola russia which i do not beleive yet has an article how would i create a new article for this?

Talk:Raifa Monastery of the Mother of God

2008-11-29T00:04:01Z

Kharaku: New page: I have photos of this monastery what would I have to do to upload one?

I have photos of this monastery what would I have to do to upload one?

Talk:Nikolai Velimirovic

2008-05-22T06:29:03Z

Kharaku: /* Whats with the personal opinions? */ new section

Having a preference in all things for English names for saints --- just as we do with Johns, Pauls, Basils, and most other saints' names --- I've noted the usage of ''Nicholas,'' notably used by HB [[Herman (Swaiko) of Washington and New York|Met. Herman]] at the 2005 Pilgrimage at St. Tikhon Monastery, PA. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 18:35, March 28, 2006 (CST)

What does "now" in Crestwood, NY (written immediately afterward St. Vladimir's Theological Seminary) mean? Was the seminary located somewhere else previously?
[[User:Gabriela]] 12:56, May 3, 2006 (CST)

: Yep. It was initially located in NYC and housed in Columbia University. It wasn't in Crestwood until 1962. {{User:ASDamick/sig}} 15:59, May 3, 2006 (CDT)

:Huh, you learn something new everyday. Thanks. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 8:26, 13 May, 2006 (CST)

- I agree with changing Nikolai to Nicholas, or at least putting one in brackets.

Anyway, what is with the mention of him being accused of supporting the holocaust? That is an awful accusation to mention. Is there any foundation to this claim? Or can the comment be removed? [[User:Andreas|Andreas]]

: Even though it is most likely false, it is worth mentioning because it's a common accusation. Encyclopedic articles deal with what's notable about their subject, both good and bad. —[[User:ASDamick|Dcn. Andrew]] [[User_talk:ASDamick|talk]] [[Special:Randompage|random]] [[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|contribs]] 19:18, May 24, 2006 (CDT)

== Whats with the personal opinions? ==

Took out "which is more an allegation of historical fact rather than the racism which is the heart of anti-semitism." To me racism is racism regardless of who it's directed at but on top of that what in the world does that statement have to do with the life of the Nikolai Velimirovic?

I think it'd make a lot more sense to simply note that he was accused of anti-semitism, and that the facts do not bear this out without inserting subjective statements into the mix.

Nikolai Velimirovic

2008-05-22T06:25:22Z

Kharaku: /* Alleged Anti-Semitism */

[[Image:StNikolaiVelimirovich.jpg|thumb|right|St. Nikolai Velimirovich (1880-1956)]]
{{orthodoxyinamerica}}
Our father among the saints, [[Bishop]] '''Nikolaj Velimirović''' (Николај Велимировић, [[January 5]], 1880 - [[March 18]], 1956, also rendered ''Nicholas'') was bishop of Žiča in Serbia and the author of several Orthodox books. His most widely-known work is the ''[[Prologue from Ohrid]]''. His first name is pronounced and sometimes written ''Nikolai''.

==Life==
Nikolaj Velimirović was born in the small village of Lelich in Western Serbia. He attended the Seminary of St. Sava in Belgrade and graduated in 1905. He obtained doctorates from the University of Berne (1908), while the thesis was published in German in 1910, whereas the doctor's degree in philosophy was prepared at Oxford and defended in Geneva (''Filosofija Berklija'' - ''Berkeley's Philosophy'', in French) in 1909. At the end of 1909 he entered a monastic order. In 1919, then [[Archimandrite]] Nikolai was consecrated Bishop of Žiča in the [[Church of Serbia]].

In April 1915 (during WWI) he was delegated to England and America by the Serbian Church, where he held numerous lectures, fighting for the unison of the Serbs and South Slavic peoples. At the beginning of 1919 he returned to Serbia, and in 1920 was posted to the Ohrid archbishopric in Macedonia, where in 1935, in Bitola he reconstructed the cemetery of the killed German soldiers.

During the Second World War in 1941 Bp. Nikolai was arrested by the Nazis in the [[Monastery]] of Žiča (which was soon afterwards robbed and ruined), after which he was confined in the Monastery of Ljubostinja (where, on the occasion of mass deaths by firing squad, he reacted saying: "Is this the German culture, to shoot hundred innocent Serbs, for one dead German soldier! The Turks have always proved to be more just..."). Later, this "new [[John Chrysostom|Chrysostom]]" was transferred to the Monastery of Vojlovica (near Pančevo) in which he was confined together with the Serbian patriarch, [[Gabriel (Dozic) of Serbia|Gavrilo (Dožić)]] until the end of 1944.

On [[December 14]], 1944 he was sent to Dachau, together with Serbian [[Patriarch]] Gavrilo, where some sources, especially the standard Church references, record that he suffered both imprisonment and torture.[http://www.serfes.org/lives/holyhierarchsaintnicholai.htm]

After the War he left Communist Yugoslavia and immigrated as a refugee to the United States in 1946 where he taught at several Orthodox Christian [[seminary|seminaries]] such as [[St. Sava's Serbian Orthodox Seminary (Libertyville, Illinois)|St. Sava's Serbian Orthodox Seminary]] in Libertyville, Illinois and [[St. Tikhon's Orthodox Theological Seminary (South Canaan, Pennsylvania)|St. Tikhon's Orthodox Theological Seminary]] and Monastery in South Canaan, Pennsylvania (where he was [[rector]] and also where he died) and [[St. Vladimir's Orthodox Theological Seminary (Crestwood, New York)|St. Vladimir's Orthodox Theological Seminary]] now in Crestwood, New York. He died on [[March 18]], 1956.

==Alleged Anti-Semitism==
Although recently [[Glorification|glorified]] as a saint by the [[Church of Serbia]], his writings remain highly controversial. Nikolaj Velimirovic was allegedly anti-semitic and he is supposed to have approved of the holocaust. (See Bishop Nikolaj Velimirovic: ''Addresses to the Serbian People—Through the Prison Window''. Himmelsthur, Germany: Serbian Orthodox Eparchy for Western Europe, 1985, pp. 161-162).

Others regard his address from Dachau as having been under duress[http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/kosta/pisma/l-serbs.are.new.jews.html][http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/kosta/pisma/l-a.little.more.truth.html] and point to the lack of other anti-semitic statements in the rest of his large corpus of writings. He is recorded variously to have said that the Jews "crucified [[Christ]]," but such a statement is historically no different from that in the [[Bible]] or what Christians have been saying for centuries.

==[[Glorification]]==
On [[May 19]], 2003, the Holy Assembly of Bishops of the Serbian Orthodox Church, with one heart and one voice, unanimously decided to enter Bishop Nicholai (Velimirovic) of Ohrid and Ziča into the calendar of saints of our Holy Orthodox Church.

St. Nikolai Velimirovich is often referred to as Serbia's New Chrysostom. St. [[John Maximovitch]], who had been a young instructor at a seminary in Bishop Nikolai's diocese of Ohrid, called him "a great saint and Chrysostom of our day [whose] significance for Orthodoxy in our time can be compared only with that of Metropolitan Anthony [Khrapovitsky]. ... They were both universal teachers of the Orthodox Church."

{{start box}}
{{succession|
before=Sava (Barać)|
title=Bishop of Žiča|
years=1919-1920|
after=Jefrem (Bojović)}}
{{succession|
before=?|
title=Bishop of Ohrid|
years=1920-1929|
after=[[Platon of Banja Luka|St. Platon]]}}
{{succession|
before=Jefrem (Bojović)|
title=Bishop of Žiča|
years=1937-1956|
after=[[German of Serbia|German]]}}

{{end box}}

==Hymns==
[[Troparion]] (Tone 8)

:O golden-tongued preacher proclaiming the risen Christ,
:Everlasting guide of the cross-bearing Serbian people,
:Resounding harp of the Holy Spirit, and dear to monastics who rejoice in you,
:Pride and boast of the priesthood, teacher of repentance, master for all nations,
:Guide of those in the army of Christ as they pray to God,
:Holy Nicholas teacher in America and pride of the Serbian people,
:With all the saints, implore the only Lover of mankind
:To grant us peace and joy in his heavenly kingdom!

[[Kontakion]] (Tone 3)

:Born at Lelich in Serbia,
:You served as archpastor at the church of Saint Nahum in Ochrid.
:Taking your place on the throne of Saint Sabbas at Zhicha,
:You taught God's people and enlightened them with the Gospel.
:You brought people to repentance and the love of Christ,
:And for Christ you endured suffering at Dachau.
:Therefore we glorify you, a new Nicholas well–pleasing to God.

==Works==
===Books===
*''Beyond Sin and Death'' (1914)
*''The Spiritual Rebirth of Europe'' (1917)
*''Orations on the Universal Man'' (1920)
*''Thoughts on Good and Evil'' (1923)
*''Homilias, volumes I and II'' (1925)
*''[[Prologue from Ohrid]]'' (1926)
*''The Faith of Educated People'' (1928)
*''The War and the Bible'' (1931)
*''The Symbols and Signs'' (1932)
*''"Immanuel"'' (1937)
*''The Religion of Njegos''
*''Speeches under the Mount''
*''The Faith of the Saints'' (1949) (an Orthodox [[Catechism]] in English)
*''Cassiana - the Science on Love'' (1952)
*''The Only Love of Mankind'' (1958)
*''The First Gods Law and the Pyramid of Paradise'' (1959)
*''The Life of St. Sava''. St. Vladimir's Seminary Press, 1989. ISBN 0881410659

===Articles===
*"[[Why are Vigil Lamps lit before Icons?]]"
* [http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles/VelimirovichBlessEnemies.shtml Quotation: Bless My Enemies O Lord -- by Bp. Nikolai Velimirovich]

==External links==
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Velimirovic Wikipedia on Nikolai Velimirovic]
*[http://manybooks.net/authors/velimirovicn.html Works online] (''The New Ideal in Education'' and ''The Religious Spirit of the Slavs (1916)'')
*[http://www.roca.org/oa/158/158f.htm A detailed biography]
*[http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/Holy_Fathers/St._Nikolai_Velimirovich/index.shtml#_ftn3 The New Chrysostom, Bishop of Ochrid and Zhicha]
* [http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/stnikolai.aspx Life of St. Nikolai Velimirovich, The New Chrysostom, Bishop of Ochrid and Zhicha -- OrthodoxInfo.com])
*[http://www.gutenberg.org/author/Nikolai_Velimirovic Works by Nikolai Velimirovic] from Project Gutenberg
*[http://www.rferl.org/reports/eepreport/2004/02/4-180204.asp East European Perspectives, Article by J. Byford]
* Life of Bishop Nicholai (Velimirovich) in ''Portraits of American Saints'', Compiled and Edited by George A. Gray and Jan V. Bear, Diocese Council and Department of Missions Diocese of the West Orthodox Church in America, 650 Micheltorena Street, Los Angles, California, 1994, pp. 74-77 (Quoted at [http://www.serfes.org/lives/holyhierarchsaintnicholai.htm Serfes.org])

[[Category:American Saints]]
[[Category:Bishops]]
[[Category:Modern Writers]]
[[Category:Saints]]
[[Category:Serbian Saints]]

[[ro:Nicolae (Velimirovici)]]

Talk:Russian Orthodox Autonomous Church

2006-05-25T05:18:45Z

Kharaku: Bias

This article needs (among other things):

# wikification
# a proper intro

{{User:ASDamick/sig}} 05:01, December 1, 2005 (CST)

== Bias ==

This article does seem a bit biased and is from the web site of the church in question. It would seem the point of view of the other Russian churches should be added.

This article contains ROCOR's opinion
http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/english/pages/news/invvlmark.html

User talk:FrJohn

2006-03-03T16:39:18Z

Kharaku: Original Sin Question

<div id="shortcut" style="border: 1px solid #CC9; margin: 0em 1em 0em 1em; text-align: center; padding:5px; clear: both; background-color:#F1F1DE">
''Welcome to my discussion page. Please post new messages to the bottom of the page and use headings when starting new discussion topics. Please also sign and date your entries by inserting '''<nowiki>- ~~~~</nowiki>''' at the end. Thank you. [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} Start a new discussion topic.]''
----
''[[/archived discussion 1]] (through 09-07-2005)'' 
''[[/archived discussion 2]] (through 11-20-2005)''
</div>

__TOC__

== Interwiki ==

Father, would it be okay to get rid of some of [[Special:Interwiki|these]]? For instance, the [http://andstuff.org/ AndStuff] wiki is personal and closed. For many of these, it's doubtful that we would ever link them, let alone in quantities enough to justify having an interwiki link ([http://www.linuxwiki.de/ LinuxWiki], for example). On the other hand, it may be easier to keep them than weed them out. Additionally, some of the interwiki links do not link to wikis, like those related to Google. Your thoughts? {{User:Magda/sig}} 13:06, November 21, 2005 (CST)

== Favicon License ==

Father, That license for the favicon was for the favicon that I created. If you read the log, I think HappyGrievling replaced it with a favicon of his version. He just didn't change the license.

== [[OrthodoxWiki:Buzz]] ==

Father, I thought you might be interested in [http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?hl=en&q=orthodoxwiki this link] which I found last night. {{User:Magda/sig}} 09:23, November 24, 2005 (CST)

== Link buttons ==

Fr., the [http://www.flickr.com/photos/magdalainn/13560522/ first one] is link-button size, but the [http://www.flickr.com/photos/magdalainn/13445237/ second] is more banner-sized, and rather illegible when reduced to the size of the first. Still want the second? You're welcome to both, of course. {{User:Magda/sig}} 12:08, November 25, 2005 (CST)

== [[OrthodoxWiki:Photo galleries]] ==

* [[:Category:Skete Images]] - For images used by permission from Skete.com - See [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Skete.com]]
I have noticed that [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Skete.com]] does not include all of the images which actually use the template (cf. [[:Image:Dionysius the Areopagite.jpg]]). Also, how do you make the category page show up as a gallery? {{User:Magda/sig}} 12:56, November 26, 2005 (CST)

== Press photos ==

They're probably actually more in the line of "fair use" than public domain, something like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Promotional what you find here] or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Promophoto here], i.e., that the image was produced for mass distribution. {{User:ASDamick/sig}} 14:13, November 26, 2005 (CST)

== IRC ==

Fr. I noticed that Dcn. Damick, Magda, and yourself are doing some serious work with images. I would jump in and help, but don't know where to start. Do you use Firefox for your browser? If so, have you looked at the ChatZilla IRC Client [[OrthodoxWiki:Chat|I wrote about]]. I think this would help everyone talk about what everyone else is doing at the moment and might help speed things along. This is the last time I will mention it for a while. I am currently logged into the #orthodoxwiki channel at irc.freenode.net using the default user name. Joe 18:09 EST 26 Nov 2005

==Japan==

Father John, I'll give it a try. [[User:Wsk|Wsk]] 17:33, November 26, 2005 (CST)

== [[OrthodoxWiki:Photo galleries]] ==

Father, what images do you want in [[:Category:Images of Icons|this category]]? {{User:Magda/sig}} 19:54, November 26, 2005 (CST)

''Please import all appropriate images from a whole category at one time and then register the category on Wikimedia Commons that they were imported from here.'' — I don't think I understand this sentence. Would you please clarify? {{User:Magda/sig}} 22:06, November 26, 2005 (CST)

Okay, so what images do you want in [[:Category:Icons|''this'' category]]? Each and every icon? Just want to make sure before going ahead. My plan is to go through [[Special:Imagelist]] tomorrow (or later today, in my time zone) and make sure they're in the lists by subject. {{User:Magda/sig}} 23:17, November 26, 2005 (CST)

:More specifically, do you want to add <nowiki>[[Category:Icons]]</nowiki> even to the images which are already in, say, [[:Category:Skete Images]]? The Skete Images category itself is in [[:Category:Icons]], but the individual images do not show up in the [[:Category:Icons]] gallery. {{User:Magda/sig}} 14:30, November 27, 2005 (CST)

How about images which are included in a permission category, but not a topical category—[[:Image:Alaska.png]], [[:Image:Alexandria logo.gif]]—would you want them to be in the ironic "Uncategorized Images" category? {{User:Magda/sig}} 16:08, November 27, 2005 (CST)

:Any idea what to do about the two almost-identical Atalla Hanna pictures? I would prefer to delete the second, but am not sure how. {{User:Magda/sig}} 16:20, November 27, 2005 (CST)
:*Atallah Hanna.jpg
:*Atallah%20Hanna.jpg
:That's part of what has me confused, but there is a separate listing for each on [[Special:Imagelist]] (500, by name), and when clicking on the filename, those are kept in different directories, so it's not the exact same file: [http://www2.orthodoxwiki.org/images/e/ec/Atallah_Hanna.jpg] and [http://www2.orthodoxwiki.org/images/5/51/Atallah%2520Hanna.jpg]. {{User:Magda/sig}} 18:20, November 27, 2005 (CST)

== Vandalbot Template ==

We can either do that, or just check the list at the admin yahoo group by searching for ''vandal''. {{User:Magda/sig}} 20:54, November 27, 2005 (CST)

== More image stuff ==

[[:Category:OrthodoxWiki Images]]—
It seems that some of these, such as [[:Image:Logo wikikto en.jpg]], would be better off in the [[:Category:Logos|Logos]] category. I don't see them as OrthodoxWiki logos or even system images. If you think they should remain in this category, perhaps you could add a clarifyer on the category page?

[[MediaWiki:Uploadtext]]—
Should we add something like: "If you have obtained this image from the internet, please include the URL in the summary." ? (Or perhaps: "If you have obtained this image from the internet, please include the URL in the summary, unless the source is evident from the image license.")

== Re: Copyright trouble ==

:Hello Father, I edit/create new entries on ''both'' sites (Wikipedia and OrthodoxWiki - see, for example, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Mina] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Mina_Monastery_in_Mariut] and compare to OrthodoxWiki), so it's the same person in most cases, though I use different usernames in Wikipedia and usually even edit without loging in at all, i.e., a different IP address will appear at different times (my IP is not static). I started editing in Wikipedia before moving to OrthodoxWiki. In Christ, --[[User:Arbible|Arbible]] 17:31, November 28, 2005 (CST)

::Yes, Father. St. Mina's article [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Mina] is a '''complete rewrite from scratch''' by me (''cf.'' previous edits), and St. Mina Monastery article [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Mina_Monastery_in_Mariut] has been '''created''' and '''fully''' written/edited by me too on both sites. In Christ, --[[User:Arbible|Arbible]] 17:39, November 28, 2005 (CST)

::http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nectarios (I created/edited this one too using username Kyrillos2 (to upload the image) and IP address 80.41.178.115)

::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraam_Bishop_of_Fayoum (I created/edited this one also using username Kyrillos2 (to upload the image) and IP addresses 80.41.178.114 and 80.41.180.161)

::and many, many more...

::A general problem with wikis is the lack of explicit authorship/editorship information, and of mechanisms to ensure this is clearly present in every article. (For quality benchmarking purposes an IP or nickname cannot qualify as proper authorship/editorship information.) This is a crucial quality criterion that we teach to our students - please refer to the following presentation of mine: http://healthcybermap.org/MNKB_Quality.PDF

::In Christ, --[[User:Arbible|Arbible]] 18:10, November 28, 2005 (CST)
(also: http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/OrthodoxWiki_talk:Copyrights )

:That's a nice presentation, Arbible, very clear. One clarification, though. The article in question is [[Cyril VI (Atta) of Alexandria]] (cf. [[wikipedia:Pope Cyril VI of Alexandria]]). Fr. John

::http://www.zeitun-eg.net/stcyril6/
::http://www.stmina-monastery.org/popekyrillos6.htm
::Arbible

:The WHOIS info of the above domains can be easily checked.
:The following resource might also be of interest, especially the sections on self-plagiarism and on proper/improper paraphrasing: http://facpub.stjohns.edu/~roigm/plagiarism/
:I need to go now - I will be in Thailand for the coming few days, God willing, to deliver an invited keynote speech at a conference http://www.j-geoinfo.net/HealthGIS/FISH_prog.htm , so won't be available to reply/edit. Please keep me in your prayers. In Christ, --[[User:Arbible|Arbible]] 19:36, November 28, 2005 (CST)

==Reply==
''Thanks for the links, but can you be more explicit about what you are saying they demonstrate? Thanks, [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]''

::Even when one is simply importing (to a different wiki)/reusing their ''own'' articles that nobody else has edited this can still sometimes be considered self-plagiarism by academic standards (also depending on the specific details of a particular import and how you approach/judge the whole matter). '''OPEN''' wiki "encyclopedias" are not academically rigorous and were never intended to be so. Nicknames are not any better than IP addresses (in this respect). One can never compare Wikipedia to Britannica, for example - see [http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/27/wikipedia_britannica_and_linux/], [http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/18/wikipedia_quality_problem/]. Please forgive me Father; you should never describe yourself as "slow sometimes". Thanks for the prayerful wishes. In Christ, --[[User:Arbible|Arbible]] 20:30, November 28, 2005 (CST)

'''Food for thought:'''
* http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/3540259953/102-7745094-9986548
* I have also written a bit on the wiki concept in this recent editorial of mine: http://www.ij-healthgeographics.com/content/4/1/22 (see under 'Discussion > The wikification of GIS, maps and satellite imagery/aerial photography: imaging and geospatial information for the wide masses')

===RE: P.S ===
''Did I ever mention that one day last year a woman showed up at my church - she had been Muslim by was converted by a miracle that she a her sister both witnessed together -- it was a manifestation of Pope St. Kyrillos? It was a beautiful story. [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]''

::There are some volumes in English here: http://www.stmina-monastery.org/miracles.htm
:: God Bless. --[[User:Arbible|Arbible]] 20:30, November 28, 2005 (CST)

==Ethics==
I've been using the off-line OrthodoxWiki known as the seminary for the article. I am taking a course in Orthodox Christian Ethics this semester and when we were told to come up with a project for the semester... There were three of us, writing three articles each, so hopefully, before the end of the year, there will be eight more articles for that section of OrthodoxWiki. [[User:Vandrona|Virgil]]

: Actually, yes. Among the options for projects was "creating ethics-related web-pages," with the provision that we would have to show they are useful for more than just getting a grade. Naturally, I suggested OrthodoxWiki. Thankfully, it was accepted. [[User:Vandrona|Virgil]]

== address of st catherine- mt siani ==

dearest father - would you happen to know the address to the monastery of st catherine ( mt. saini)? I would like to send a prayer request for 40 days litergy . ( seven days a week for 40 days)I was looking for information who was the heiromonk and where to send a offering.- thank- you! with love in christ- athena
:This was actually a longer search than I expected, Father. I'm still working on going to the library to finish copying out the list of names for [[User_talk:Lin|this request]]. Sorry for the editing conflict. Thanks for the tip on the favicon. And what do you mean you don't know everything? :) {{User:Magda/sig}} 10:14, November 30, 2005 (CST)

== Favicon ==

Is it just me, or is the favicon not showing up? {{User:Magda/sig}} 09:35, November 30, 2005 (CST)

== Maps ==

Fr. If you are talking about using the Google API I think that would be great. Joe 30 Nov 2005
:Me, too! {{User:Magda/sig}} 13:58, November 30, 2005 (CST)

::Ok, ok. Just give me a little time! [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]

:Fr. The first extension you listed looked a little more user friendly. [[User:Joe Rodgers|Joe]]

== [[:Category:Clergy]] ==

The main difficulty with having [[:Category:Clergy]] include individuals is that it would thus necessarily encompass nearly every person whose bio we have on the wiki, thus rendering it nearly useless. {{User:ASDamick/sig}} 17:33, November 30, 2005 (CST)

: I'm honestly not sure. Obviously, we don't want uncategorized articles, but I'm also not sure how to supply categories for some of these folks. {{User:ASDamick/sig}} 17:47, November 30, 2005 (CST)

== Come Receive the Light ==

Fr. Is that your wife on the receive.org website/broadcast? [[User:Joe Rodgers|Joe]] 4 Dec 2005

==Japanese Church Images==
Fr. John, I like the categories setting up all the images on file. I suggest adding the image of Metr. Sergius to the Japanese category. I couldn't how you linked the image to the Japanese image category, so that's why I'm sending this!! The file is: Image:Met_Sergius%28port%29.jpg. ````

== Chicago ==

The other states are not usually one-large-metropolitan-area and everybody-else. In Texas, most things (as far as I know) are grouped by metropolitan area. For instance, someone looking for a church in Dallas may find that the closest church to his location-in-Dallas is actually in, say, Irving. Since he wouldn't be going to Irving itself, he probably wouldn't look for churches there. I would love to see a google map interface with these pages somehow.

== photo of Lossky ==

I took the photo from a conference page of the Moscow Patriarchate.
http://e.korsoun.free.fr/fr/annonces/conference_20050628.htm

There was no copyright notice on the page.

== Your Welcome ==

Your welcome. Even despite our differences I do wish the best for all people of faith. I do ask if at possible, that I be given access to my user talk page again. I think I understand why you locked it but I think we can agree to disagree without needing to make it a large issue. --[[User:Patriarchanthony|Patriarchanthony]] 21:31, December 11, 2005 (CST)

:Thanks! --[[User:Patriarchanthony|Patriarchanthony]] 22:04, December 11, 2005 (CST)

== Vandals ==

* Kynilyator
* Qolyan

Reverted pages they vandalized. Best I can do. --[[User:Patriarchanthony|Patriarchanthony]] 21:06, December 12, 2005 (CST)

Greetings. I'm a student of Orthodox Seminary in Poland and I'm searching books and materials about hisotry of Orthodoxy in America, becouse I want to wrie my bechelor work about this. Maybe You can help for me?

== Broken link ==

Father, I don't get anywhere when I click on the [http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/d?fsaall,app,brum,detr,swann,look,gottscho,pan,horyd,genthe,var,cai,cd,hh,yan,bbcards,lomax,ils,prok,brhc,nclc,matpc,iucpub,tgmi:20:./temp/~pp_4g6Q: link] you added to the [[OrthodoxWiki:Images for import]] page, and I'm not sure what search you used. {{User:Magda/sig}} 12:44, December 21, 2005 (CST)

Hey, thanks for the encouragement. I'll be sure to work on a better article. - [[User:Ari|Ari]] 23:26, January 2, 2006 (CST)

== Thanks:) ==

Thanks for the extra points of view and thanks for reading some of my site. I did some research on the Great Schism of 1054 for a major project but I could not find enough information on it from first hand historians and most of what I did find was written by the west so it showed bias. I'm will try and work some of your suggestions into the site. --[[User:Ari|Ari]] 00:03, January 3, 2006 (CST)

==Vandals==

Father,

I did what I could to revert the perverse edits of a few spammers. I can't delete the pics but I assume a revert of them does the same thing? Not sure. But again, I did what I could. Edit this because problem resolved with sysop. :) --[[User:Patriarchanthony|Patriarchanthony]] 01:12, January 8, 2006 (CST)

== Re: Copyright Concern? ==

Hi
We have permission to use this articles.

== Hello again! ==

Thank you very much for responding. I have to apologies, but this system is absolutely new to me. The way its working is little different that just ordinary website, also, tags is different too, so I will ask for your patients and forgiveness for any mistakes I could make in future. I guess it’s going to take some time to learn.
If you could advice how this information should be putted we will be much appreciated, and if you think it should be deleted, than do so.
About the copyright issue you don’t’ have to worry about this, because I am the owner and administrator of the blago.org server
Thank you in advance.

== Original Sin Question ==

The following is from Our Orthodox Christian Faith: A
Handbook of Popular Dogmatics by Athanasios S.
Frangopoulos, theologian and teacher. Published by The
Brother of Theologians, "The Savior", in Athens,
Greece, 1984, Chapter 9, The Original Sin:

"4.e. The inheritance of Original Sin. The saddest and
ugliest aspect of Original sin is its transmission
from the first man to his descendants and; from
generation to generation to the entire human race: a
hereditary transmission as a state and sickness of
human nature and as a personal guilt of every man."

This seems to aledge that we carry personal guilt for the original sin (which I understood to be a Catholic doctrine).

Can you explain whether this does or doesn't say that and why?

:Dear Kharaku, it's a good question. First, it's a mistake to say that the Roman Catholic Church teaches that we carry personal guilt, at least in the way many Orthodox understand them to teach. Here's what their Catechism, which is the current standard of teaching, says:
::"Although it is proper to each individual,295 original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam's descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin..."[http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c1p7.htm#405]
:I have some issues with some of the wording in the larger context of that passage, but I don't fundamentally disagree with this. There has been a lot of scholastic influence on both Greek and Russian thought. I take many of the critiques of this kind of explanation of original sin as part of this movement away from "the Latin captivity" of Orthodox church theology (as Fr. Florovsky says). I do think sometimes people take it too far in the other direction.
:The RC Catechism also states:
::''406 The Church's teaching on the transmission of original sin was articulated more precisely in the fifth century, especially under the impulse of St. Augustine's reflections against Pelagianism, and in the sixteenth century, in opposition to the Protestant Reformation. Pelagius held that man could, by the natural power of free will and without the necessary help of God's grace, lead a morally good life; he thus reduced the influence of Adam's fault to bad example. The first Protestant reformers, on the contrary, taught that original sin has radically perverted man and destroyed his freedom; they identified the sin inherited by each man with the tendency to evil (concupiscentia), which would be insurmountable. The Church pronounced on the meaning of the data of Revelation on original sin especially at the second Council of Orange (529) and at the Council of Trent (1546).''
:This could help explain the different emphasis in the Orthodox tradition. Although Pelagius and his teaching were condemned at an Ecumenical Council, the battle between Augustine and Pelagius remained mainly a Western issue. The RC Catechism defends Augustine's position while carefully avoiding some of the more extreme ("total depravity") interpretations of the Reformers which virtually nullify the idea of human freedom, or cooperation with God.
:I think what we can understand Frangopoulos to be saying (to put a positive spin on it), is that we have all died in Adam and, through the Fall, have become citizens of the kingdom of darkness. We must die to Adam - not just clean things up, but die - and be reborn into new life in Christ. This is our justification (as we say during the Baptismal service), and the foundation of Church life.
:Hope that helps! {{User:FrJohn/sig}}

== Original Sin Question ==

I guess my question is two fold. And I think you answered well the discrepency between the Roman and Orthodox churches with regard to the CCC

404 How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam "as one body of one man".293 By this "unity of the human race" all men are implicated in Adam's sin, as all are implicated in Christ's justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state.294 It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called "sin" only in an analogical sense: it is a sin "contracted" and not "committed" - a state and not an act.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p7.htm

I'm still unclear though as to whether the Orthodox view is that we inherit personal guilt for the original sin. I'm not so concerned with the Roman idealogy so much as whether the Orthodox beleive we inherit personal guilt, and if so why this doesn't require a doctrine like the Immaculate Conception.

Thanks much!

User talk:FrJohn

2006-03-03T14:17:32Z

Kharaku: Original Sin Question