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Mount Athos

2007-03-30T09:33:09Z

Jovanvb: /* External links */ + sr:Света Гора

[[Image:Athos.jpg|right|thumb|400px|Mount Athos as seen from the ridge road]]
'''Mount Athos''' is a mountain and a peninsula in Macedonia, northern Greece, called Άγιο Όρος (''Ayio Oros'' or "Holy Mountain") in Modern Greek, or Ἅγιον Ὄρος (''Hagion Oros'') in Classical Greek. It is home to 20 [[Orthodox Church|Orthodox]] [[monastery|monasteries]] and forms an autonomous state under Greek sovereignty. Only [[monasticism|monks]] are allowed to live on Athos and the current population numbers around 1,400. The peninsula, the easternmost "leg" of the larger Chalkidiki peninsula, protrudes into the Aegean Sea for some 60 km at a width between 7 to 12 km and covers an area of about 390 km², with the actual mountain and its steep, densely forested slopes reaching up to 2,033 m.

The seas around the end of the peninsula can be dangerous. Xerxes I had a channel excavated across the isthmus to allow the passage of his invasion fleet in 483 BC.

[[Monk|Monastics]] from Mount Athos are often referred to as ''Athonites'' or ''Hagiorites''.

== History ==
[[Image:Athanasius of Athos.jpg|right|frame|St. [[Athanasius of Athos]] being shown the Holy Mountain by the [[Theotokos]]]]
Mount Athos as a monastic community was formally founded in 963, when St. [[Athanasius of Athos|Athanasius]] (not to be confused with the 4th century St. [[Athanasius the Great]]) established the monastery of [[Great Lavra (Athos)|Great Lavra]], still the largest and most prominent of the 20 monasteries. It enjoyed the protection of the emperors of the Eastern Roman Empire during the following centuries and its wealth and possessions grew considerably. The [[Fourth Crusade]] in the 13th century brought new [[Roman Catholic Church|Roman Catholic]] overlords which forced the monks to seek protection from Pope Innocent III, until the restoration of the Byzantine Empire. It was raided by Catalan mercenaries in the 14th century, a century that also saw the theological conflict over the [[hesychasm]] practised on Mount Athos and defended by [[Gregory Palamas]].

The Byzantine Empire collapsed in the 15th century and the newly established [[Islam|Islamic]] Ottoman Empire took over. They heavily taxed the monasteries, but for the most part left them alone. The population of monks and their wealth declined over the next centuries, but was revitalised around the 19th century by the donations and new arrivals from other Orthodox countries, such as Russia, Bulgaria, Romania and Serbia, while each country came to exert its influence on individual monasteries. In 1912, during the First Balkan War, the Ottomans were forced out and after a brief conflict between Greece and Russia over sovereignty, the peninsula formally came under Greek sovereignty after World War I.

Politically the peninsula is mostly self-governed and consists of 20 main monasteries and the capital city and administrative centre, [[Karyes (Athos)|Karyes]], also home to a governor as the representative of the Greek state. Beyond the monasteries there are 12 ''[[skete|sketae]]'', smaller communities of monks, as well as many (solitary) hermitages throughout the peninsula. Visits to the peninsula are possible for laymen, but they need special permission.

[[Image:Xenophontos_Monastery.jpg|left|thumb|400px|[[Xenophontos Monastery (Athos)|Xenophontos Monastery]]]]
Women are completely barred from the peninsula, a fact which has earned a certain amount of fame; even female domestic animals (with the exception, some say, of cats, as well as chickens which lay eggs that provide the fresh egg yolk needed for the paint used in [[iconography]]) are forbidden. However, during the Greek Civil War, Athos did shelter refugees including women and girls. [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010209.html]

In modern times, the Mount Athos monasteries have repeatedly been struck by wildfires, e.g. in August 1990, and in March 2004, fire gutted a large section of the Serbian monastary, [[Chilandari Monastery (Athos)|Chilandari]]. Due to the secluded locations of the monasteries, often atop small hills, as well as the unavailability of suitable fire fighting gear, the damages inflicted by these fires are often considerable.

== Languages ==
Greek is commonly used in all Greek monasteries, but in some monasteries there are other languages in use, in [[St. Panteleimon's Monastery (Athos)|St. Panteleimon]], Russian; in [[Chilandari Monastery (Athos)|Chilandari]], Serbian; in [[Zographou Monastery (Athos)|Zographou]], Bulgarian; and in the sketae of [[Prodromou Skete (Athos)|Prodromou]] and [[Lacu Skete (Athos)|Lacu]], Romanian. Today, many of the Greek monks can also understand English or other European languages.

== List of Monasteries and Sketes ==
{| align="center" cellpadding="2" border="1"
|-
| width="33%" align="left" valign="top"|'''The Monasteries''' (in hierarchical order) 

* [[Great Lavra (Athos)|Great Lavra]] (''Megisti Lavra'')
* [[Vatopedi Monastery (Athos)|Vatopedi Monastery]]
* [[Iviron Monastery (Athos)|Iviron Monastery]]
* [[Chilandari Monastery (Athos)|Chilandari Monastery]] (''Hilandar'')
* [[Dionysiou Monastery (Athos)|Dionysiou Monastery]]
* [[Koutloumousiou Monastery (Athos)|Koutloumousiou Monastery]]
* [[Pantokratoros Monastery (Athos)|Pantokratoros Monastery]]
* [[Xeropotamou Monastery (Athos)|Xeropotamou Monastery]]
* [[Zographou Monastery (Athos)|Zographou Monastery]]
* [[Dochiariou Monastery (Athos)|Dochiariou Monastery]]
* [[Karakalou Monastery (Athos)|Karakalou Monastery]]
* [[Philotheou Monastery (Athos)|Philotheou Monastery]]
* [[Simonopetra Monastery (Athos)|Simonopetra Monastery]]
* [[St. Paul's Monastery (Athos)|St. Paul's Monastery]]
* [[Stavronikita Monastery (Athos)|Stavronikita Monastery]]
* [[Xenophontos Monastery (Athos)|Xenophontos Monastery]]
* [[Grigoriou Monastery (Athos)|Grigoriou Monastery]]
* [[Esphigmenou Monastery (Athos)|Esphigmenou Monastery]]
* [[St. Panteleimon's Monastery (Athos)|St. Panteleimon's Monastery]]
* [[Konstamonitou Monastery (Athos)|Konstamonitou Monastery]]

| width="33%" align="left" valign="top"|'''The Sketes''' 
* [[Prodromou Skete (Athos)|Prodromou Skete]]
* [[St. Anne's Skete (Athos)|St. Anne's Skete]]
* [[Little St. Anne's Skete (Athos)|Little St. Anne's Skete]]
* [[Kafsokalyvia Skete (Athos)|Kafsokalyvia Skete]]
* [[Skete of Vatopedi (Athos)|Skete of Vatopedi]]
* [[Skete of Iviron (Athos)|Skete of Iviron]]
* [[Skete of Koutloumousiou (Athos)|Skete of Koutloumousiou]]
* [[Skete of Pantokratoros (Athos)|Skete of Pantokratoros]]
* [[New Skete (Athos)|New Skete]] (''Nea Skiti'')
* [[Lacu Skete (Athos)|Lacu Skete]] (''Lakkoskete'')
* [[Skete of Xenophontos (Athos)|Skete of Xenophontos]]
* [[St. Basil's Skete (Athos)|St. Basil's Skete]]
* [[Provata Skete (Athos)|Provata Skete]]

| width="33%" align="left" valign="top"|'''Associated Monasteries''' 

* [[Cenobium of the Annunciation (Ormylia, Chalkidiki)]]
|}

[[Image:Iviron_Sea.jpg|right|thumb|350px|Looking toward the sea from the main entrance of [[Iviron Monastery (Athos)|Iviron Monastery]]]]

[[Image:Panteleimon_Monastery.jpg|left|thumb|300px|[[St. Panteleimon's Monastery (Athos)|St. Panteleimon's Monastery]]]]

== External links ==
*[http://www.mountathos.gr/active~mode~en{00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000002}View.html Mount Athos Monasteries]
*[http://www.athos.edo.gr/ Greece Mount Athos]
*[http://www.monachos.net/monasticism/athos/index.shtml The Holy Mountain - Mount Athos: The Heart of Orthodox Monasticism]
*[http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Athos/ Mount Athos: The Holy Mountain]
*[http://www.inathos.gr Walk in Mount Athos]
*[http://www.rs.risjak.net/chilandar/index.html Chilandar Monastery]
*[http://www.athosfriends.org/ The Friends of Mount Athos]
*[http://www.athosfriends.org/friendsguide.html A Pilgrim's Guide to Mount Athos] (courtesy of [http://www.athosfriends.org/ The Friends of Mount Athos])
*[http://abacus.bates.edu/~rallison/friends/friendsreviews.html Books of Athonite Interest] (courtesy of [http://www.athosfriends.org/ The Friends of Mount Athos])
*[http://www.monachos.net/monasticism/athos/visiting_athos.shtml Visiting Mount Athos]
*[http://www.roca.org/OA/109/109g.htm An American Pilgrim on Mount Athos]
*[http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/22b26/22aac9/ Visiting Athos, the Holy Mountain (Aghion Oros)]
*[http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/tt/f461/#TL The Holy Mountain]
*[http://hellas.teipir.gr/prefectures/english/AgioOros/Genika.htm Mount Athos]
*[http://www.ortodoksi.net/tietopankki/luostarit/athos/exhibition_en.htm Athos - Monastic life on the Holy Mountain (exhibition)]

[[Category:Featured Articles]]
[[Category:Monasteries]]
[[Category:Athonite Monasteries]]

[[ro:Muntele Athos]]
[[sr:Света Гора]]

Zica Monastery (Serbia)

2007-03-29T19:28:48Z

Jovanvb: /* External links */ + sr:Манастир Жича

[[Image:Zica_Monastery_Serbia_Font.jpg|right|350px|Zica Monastery Font]]The '''Zica Monastery''', built in the early 13th century, is near Kraljevo at the entrance to the Ibar Gorge in central Serbia. It was the first seat of the Serbian Archbishopric.

==History==
The [[monastery]] was founded by King Stefan Prvovencani, the First-Crowned, and built in the early 13th century and received St. [[Sava of Serbia|Sava]] as the first [[Patriarch]] of the [[Church of Serbia|Serbian Orthodox Church]] in 1219. The monastery was burned in a raid near the end of the 13th century and was subsequently deserted. Multiple renovations were carried out during the late 13th and early 14th centuries. The most complete renovations were completed during the rein of King Milutin (1282-1321).

[[Nikolai Velimirovic]] was consecrated Bishop of Zica in 1919. Zica suffered damage during World War II which Bishop Nikolai was unable to restore, because of his arrest there in 1941. After the war Zica became a woman's monastery. Zica celebrated its 800th anniversary in 2005.

==Architecture==
Zica is built according to the Raska school in the Romanesuque style. The monastery was originally painted red in the tradtion of the Mount Athos monasteries. There are few frescoes dating back to the 13th century remaining in the lateral choir recesses. Most of those existing today date from the early 14th Century. The Church of the Ascension of our lord is a single nave church build in four sections, the third rising up to a high octagonal dome.

==See also==
*St. [[Sava of Serbia]]
*[[Wikipedia:%C5%BDi%C4%8Da]]

==External links==
*[http://www.yuheritage.com/zica.htm Institute for the Protection of Cultural Monuments of Serbia ]
*[http://www.suc.org/culture/history/Serb_History/Monasteries/Zica/index.html Serbian Unity Congress]

[[Category:Monasteries]]
[[Category:Serbian Monasteries]]

[[sr:Манастир Жича]]

Category:Spirituality

2007-03-29T19:10:10Z

Jovanvb: + sr:Категорија:Духовност

[[Category:Categories]]

[[sr:Категорија:Духовност]]

Category:Asceticism

2007-03-29T19:08:41Z

Jovanvb: + sr:Категорија:Подвижништво

This category is for articles regarding ascetic practices of the Orthodox faith.
[[Category:Spirituality]]

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Category:Places

2007-03-29T19:06:39Z

Jovanvb:

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Category:Monasteries

2007-03-29T19:05:29Z

Jovanvb: sr:Категорија:Манастири

[[Category:Asceticism]]
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Category:Serbian Monasteries

2007-03-29T19:04:06Z

Jovanvb: + sr:Категорија:Српски манастири

[[Category:Monasteries]]

[[sr:Категорија:Српски манастири]]

File:Ljubostinja1.JPG

2007-03-29T18:53:59Z

Jovanvb: *I am the author of this image and I realise it in public domain *Monastery Ljubostinja {{pd}} {{commons}}

*I am the author of this image and I realise it in public domain
*Monastery Ljubostinja
{{pd}}
{{commons}}

Category:Serbian Saints

2007-03-28T10:26:50Z

Jovanvb:

[[Category:Saints]]

[[sr:Категорија:Српски светитељи]]

Platon of Banja Luka

2007-03-28T10:23:04Z

Jovanvb: /* Martyrdom */ + sr:Свештеномученик Бањалучки Епископ Платон

The holy [[hieromartyr]] '''Platon of Banja Luka''', (in Serbian, Свети свештеномученик Платон Бањалучки) was the third [[Church of Serbia|Serbian Orthodox]] [[bishop]] of Banja Luka.

== Life ==
Saint Platon was born in Belgrade, on [[September 29]], 1874. His parents Ilija Jovanović and Jelka (maiden name Sokolović) were from Herzegovina. He attended primary school in Vranje and Nis, and then continued his education in the Seminary in Belgrade. Milivoje took [[monasticism|monastic]] vows as the third-grade pupil of the Belgrade Seminary. Having completed [[seminary]], he was [[ordination|ordained]] a [[deacon]] and afterwards [[presbyter]]. In 1896, he was sent in the Serbian mission in Moscow, where he continued his theological education at the Moscow Theological Academy. He completed his studies in 1901.
Returning from Russia, he was appointed the head of the Rakovica Monastery in Belgrade. Soon afterwards he was appointed professor. He worked as professor in Aleksinac and Jagodina, and during this period he was raised to the ranks of syncellos, protosyncellos, and [[archimandrite]].

In 1912, during the war, Archimandrite Platon was assigned as a brigade [[priest]]. During World War I, he was assigned as a military priest. For a short period of time Platon was an administrator of the Ochrid Diocese. He spent the period of occupation in Serbia, and with the help of his acquaintances abroad, he managed to render aid to all the people who suffered afflictions - especially orphans and widows. From 1932 to 1938 he was the manager of the monastery printing office in Sremski Karlovci, as well as the editor of the " Glasnik Srpske Patriaršije". Archimandrite Platon was also the head of the Krusedol Monastery. In 1936, he was elected auxilary Bishop of moravice. Platon was consecrated bishop by [[Patriarch]] [[Varnava (Rosic) of Serbia|Varnava]], Metropoliatan Dositej of Zagreb, Metropolitan Anastasije, head of ROCOR, bishop Irinej of Bačka, bishop Makarije of Boston (he was also from ROCOR) and auxilary bishop of Srem [[Sava of Gornji Karlovac|Sava]] October 4/17, 1936 in Sremski Karlovci. June 22/July 5 1938, he was elected the Bishop of Ohrid and Bitolj. He was transferred to see of Banja Luka December 8/21 1939. Platon was the Bishop of Banja Luka when the World War II came in Yugoslavia.

== Martyrdom ==
The territory of his [[diocese]] became part of so-called Independent State of Croatia. Since he was a Serb born in Serbia, not in Bosnia, he was told to leave Banja Luka. He wrote back: "The authorities appointed me Bishop of Banja Luka lawfully, according to canon law; having such a position I took the obligation before God, Church, and people, that inseparably binding my life and my destiny with the life and destiny of my spiritual flock, to take care of my spiritual flock permanently and firmly, regardless of any events, and to stay on its spiritual path all the time of my life given to me by God, persevering in my staying with the flock as a good shepherd who gives his soul for his sheep…"

He asked a Roman Catholic bishop, Dr. Jozo Garić (who was a Croat like Ustašas) to intervene with the authorized military officer and let him stay for two or three days more so that he could prepare for the departure. This Bishop told him to be calm and peaceful. However, the Ustaše arrested Bishop Platon the very next night, [[May 5]], 1941, and took him, together with priest Dušan Subotić, who was hierarchal administrator from Bosanska Gradiska, somewhere out of Banja Luka. The two of them were killed there and their corpses were cast into the Vrbanja River. Ustasa Asim Celic committed this repulsive deed. The bishop's corpse, which was scarred and disfigured, was found in the village of Kumsale, on [[May 23]], 1941. He was buried in a military graveyard in Banja Luka. Then in 1973, his remains were transported to the Banja Luka Cathedral for reburial.

At the regular session of the Holy Assembly of Bishops of the Serbian Orthodox Church in 1998, Bishop Platon of Banja Luka was canonized and included on the list of the saints of the Serbian Orthodox Church. His feast is on [[April 22]] on the [[Julian calendar]] ([[May 5]] on the [[Gregorian calendar]])

{{start box}}
{{succession|
before=[[Nikolai Velimirovic|St. Nikolaj]]|
title=Bishop of Ohrid-Bitola|
years=1938-1939|
after=none}}
{{succession|
before=[[Vasilije (Popović) of Banja Luka|Vasilije (Popović)]]|
title=[[List of Metropolitans and Bishops of Banja Luka|Bishop of Banja Luka]]|
years=1939-1941|
after=[[Vasilije (Kostić) of Banja Luka|Vasilije]]}}
{{end box}}

[[Category:Bishops]]
[[Category:Saints]]
[[Category:Martyrs]]
[[Category:Serbian Saints]]

[[sr:Свештеномученик Бањалучки Епископ Платон]]

Category:Saints

2007-03-28T10:20:26Z

Jovanvb: sr:Категорија:Светитељи

See also the various [[synaxarion|synaxaria]], including the ''[[Prologue from Ohrid]]''.

Also, see general information about [[hagiography]].
{{CategoryTOC}}
[[Category:Church History]]
[[Category:Feasts]]
[[Category:People]]

[[sr:Категорија:Светитељи]]

Category:Church History

2007-03-28T10:19:17Z

Jovanvb: + sr:Категорија:Црквена историја

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Category:Liturgics

2007-03-28T10:18:03Z

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Category:Feasts

2007-03-28T10:16:46Z

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Category:People

2007-03-28T10:14:27Z

Jovanvb: + sr:Категорија:Људи

This Category lists people and/or groups of people. Articles should be filed under an appropriate subcategory (or subcategories) if one exists. If no subcategory exists, people can stay here.
[[Category:Categories]]

[[sr:Категорија:Људи]]

Category:Categories

2007-03-28T10:05:00Z

Jovanvb: + sr:Категорија:Категорије

This is the root category. It is here as a navigational aid.

No articles should be in this category — they should be filed under an appropriate subcategory, that is a category that is under one or more other categories. This root should be the only category that is not a subcategory to another, and it should only contain major categories. (This page should be the only page in [[Special:Uncategorizedcategories|Uncategorized categories]])
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[[sr:Категорија:Категорије]]

Sava of Serbia

2007-03-28T09:55:41Z

Jovanvb: + Image

[[Image:SvetiSavaMileseva.jpg|thumb|300px|right|St. Sava of Serbia]]
Our father among the [[saint]]s '''Sava of Serbia''', also '''Savvas''' and '''Sabbas''', was the first [[Archbishop]] of Serbia and is an important saint on the calendar of the [[Church of Serbia|Serbian Orthodox Church]]. His [[feast day]] is observed on [[January 14]] and [[January 12]].

==Life==
Sava was born Prince Rastko Nemanjic, the son of [[Stefan Nemanja]], the Serbian ruler and founder of the medieval Serbian state. His brother, Stefan Prvovencani, was the first Serbian king. Rastko Nemanjic was born in either 1175 or 1176.

In the early 1190s, the young Rastko left home to join the Orthodox [[Monasticism|monastic]] community on [[Mount Athos]]. Taking monastic vows, he was given the name ''Sava'' (Serbian form of ''Sabbas'') in honour of St. [[Sabbas the Sanctified|Sabbas]]. Initially, he joined a Russian [[monastery]], but then moved to the Greek [[Vatopedi Monastery (Athos)|Vatopedi Monastery]]. At the end of 1197, his father, Grand Prince Stefan Nemanja, joined him. In 1198, together they moved to and restored the abandoned [[Chilandari Monastery (Athos)|Hilandar]] monastery, which at that time became the center of Serbian Orthodox Christian monastic life.

St. Sava's father took monastic vows under the name ''Simeon''. He died in the Hilandar Monastery on [[February 13]], 1200. He is also canonized as Saint Simeon.

After his father's death, Sava retreated to an [[ascetic]] cell in Kareya which he built himself  in 1199. He also wrote the Kareya and Hilandar [[Typika]]. The last Kareya typikon is inscribed into the marble board at the ascetic cell. He stayed on Athos until the end of 1207.

When Sava entered his native land in 1207, he unfortunately found the country just as Simeon had informed him in his dream—in total disarray. The Serbian state was split in two. By secret negotiations with Hungary and Pope Innocent III, Vukan, the eldest of the three brothers, who was bitter over the appointment of his younger brother Stephen as heir to the throne, was able to amass troops and capture Zeta; he then was set to launch a campaign against Raška, Stephen's portion of the divided kingdom. This civil war was only a microcosm of a larger conflict instigated by the West—that is, the hostilities initiated by the Great Crusades of the Latin church. In 1204, the soldiers of the Fourth Crusade captured Constantinople and much of the territory of Byzantium, including the Holy Mountain. In 1205, the Holy Mountain was officially placed under the authority and jurisdiction of a Roman Catholic bishop. It is believed that this occurrence was the most influential factor in Sava's decision to return to Serbia. Hence, the Saint returned home with his work cut out for him.

When he returned, Sava brought with him the medicine to heal the entire situation: the [[relics]] of his father, the Grand Župan and saint, Stephen Nemanja—Simeon the Myrrh-flowing and co-founder of Hilandar. Upon entering Studenica Monastery, St. Simeon's foundational monastery, Sava invited his two brothers to a proper and rightful [[memorial service]] for their father. As the casket was opened, before their eyes the body of their father was found to be sweet-smelling, exuding a fragrant oil and [[myrrh]], warm and aglow, looking very much alive, as if he were only restfully sleeping. This act of [[veneration]] of their father was the first step in healing the fraternal schism between Vukan and Grand Prince Stephen. Shortly thereafter, the civil war was halted and a peace agreement was drawn up, once again restoring the kingdom of Serbia as it was under the reign of the great ruler Stephen Nemanja. In discussions with his reunited brothers, Sava also designed plans for an immediate, systematic, and far-reaching [[missionary]] program to save the Orthodox souls of the Serbian people. Studenica Monastery, with St. Simeon's relics making it a national shrine, was chosen as the outreach station for all activities. Sava vas appointed [[Archimandrite]] of Studenica. St. Sava wrote the Monastery's Typikon, which strengthened Studenica's monastic life.

== Archbishop ==

St. Sava managed to persuade the [[Patriarch of Constantinople]], who was residing in Nicea since Constantinople was under Latin rule until 1261, to establish the independence of the [[Church of Serbia|Serbian Church]] in the year of 1219. At Patriarch Manuel's request, Sava was selected to be elevated to Archbishop. At first, Sava vehemently refused this offer on the grounds that he was truly unworthy for such a position and calling. He offered several of the monks from Hilandar who were present as potential candidates for the position. In the end, Sava accepted and was [[Consecration of a bishop|consecrated]] in Nicea on the [[Feast]] of St. [[Nicholas of Myra|Nicholas]], [[December 6]], 1219, becoming the first Archbishop of the newly autocephalous Orthodox Church of Serbia. He was 44 years old at the time.

The following are the exact words of the Greek text of Patriarch Manuel's decree elevating Sava to Archbishop, thus granting [[autocephaly]] to the Serbian Church:

:''I, Manuel, the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Archbishop of the City of Consrantinople, New Rome, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, have consecrated Sava, Archbishop of all the Serbian lands, and have given him in God's name the authority to consecrate bishops, priests, and deacons within his country; to bind and loose sins of men, and to teach all and to baptize in rhe name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Therefore, all you Orthodox Christians, obey him as you have obeyed me.

After his consecration, Sava returned to the Holy Mountain in order to say farewell to Hilandar and to receive the blessing and prayers of the entire monastic community of the Holy Mountain.

The newly consecrated Archbishop Sava then traveled by boat to Thessalonica, where he tarried awhile at Philokalos Monastery. At Philokalos, he, along with a few others, made a translation from Greek into Slavonic of the Byzantine ecclesiastical law book ''[[The Rudder]]'' or ''Nomocanon'' of St. [[Photios the Great]] (9th century). Called ''KormchajaKnjiga'' ("Book of the Pilot") in Slavonic, this translation contained not only the ecclesiastical [[canon]]s—including the dogmatic decrees of the seven [[Ecumenical Councils]]—with commentaries by the best medieval Greek canonists, but also numerous precepts of the [[Church Fathers|Fathers]] of the Church andseveral of the imperial edicts of the great Byzantine Emperor [[Justinian]] (6th century).

When he arrived in Serbia Sava decided that on the first day of his archepiscopacy in Žiča, the Feast of the [[Ascension]], 1220, he would, as the as the newly consecrated Archbishop of Serbia, crown his brother Stephen as the first Serbian king. In 1228 he crowned his nephew Radoslav as king. Venerable Sava decided to visit Jerusalem and the Holy Land. Thus, in 1229, after ten years of dedicated hard work and fruitful labor in the vineyard of the Lord in his homeland, Sava decided to renew his own spirit by making a [[pilgrimage]] to the cradle of Christianity itself, Jerusalem, where the Lord first brought salvation to the world. When it was time for Sava to leave the Holy Land for Serbia, he decided to go by way of Nicea. There he met with John, the new emperor of Byzantium (1222-1254) now residing in Nicea, who succeeded Theodore Laskaris. He also met Germanus, the new patriarch who succeeded the late Patriarch Manuel.

In Serbia a new civil war broke out between Radoslav and his brother Vladislav. Unfortunately for Radislav, his military prowess waned as well, for in a fratricidal civil war against his younger brother Vladislav during the summer of 1233, he was defeated and exiled to Durazzo, Albania. Although Sava was unsuccessful in reconciling these brothers—who were both disloyal to their grandfather St. Simeon's call for unity—nevertheless he knew it was better for the country to be ruled by Vladislav. Several years later, as a result of his negotiations with King Vladislav, Sava was able to obtain safe conduct for Radislav, who was allowed to return to Serbia. Unfortunately again for Radislav, his wife had eloped with a French duke during his exile in Albania. Radislav then decided to become a monk, and Sava tonsured him, giving him the name "Jovan (John)"

== Retirement ==

Sava abdicated from archepiscopal see in 1233 and appointed his most capable pupil St. Arsenije as Archbisop of Serbia (1233-1263). In the spring of 1234, Archbishop Sava, age 59, only five years after his first trip to the Holy Land, decided to make a second pilgrimage to Jerusalem. Upon arrival in Jerusalem, Sava lodged at the St. George Monastery in Akre, a monastery he had purchased from the Latins during his first pilgrimage. Sava visited Patriarch Athanasius of Jerusalem and then went by boat to Alexandria, Egypt, to meet with Pope Nicholas, "Patriarch of [[Church of Alexandria|Alexandria]] and all Africa."

He then went to [[St. Catherine's Monastery (Sinai)|St. Catherine's Monastery]] on Mt. Sinai, where he spent [[Great Lent]] of 1234. This was a most blessed [[Pascha]]l journey for Sava, for he climbed the heights where the great man of God, [[Moses]] the God-seer and Deliverer of his people, had spent many hours speaking to the Lord God face to face as a friend converses with a friend. Sava, too, had been a "Moses" to his people, pastoring, leading and organizing them into a community of God. After the Paschal celebration of 1234, Sava returned to Jerusalem and then traveled to Antioch. After visiting Constantinople, Sava intended to visit the Holy Mountain and Hilandar, but "it did not please the [[Holy Spirit]]." Instead, he left for Trnovo, Bulgaria, the capital of King Ivan Asen II's Bulgarian kingdom and patriarch of Trnovo.

Participating in a ceremony called Blessing of the Waters (Agiasmo) he developed a cough that progressed into pneumonia. He died from pneumonia in the evening between Saturday and Sunday, [[January 14]], 1235. [http://www.kosovo.com/sava.html] He was buried at the [[Cathedral]] of the Holy Forty Martyrs in Trnovo where his body remained until [[May 6]], 1237, when his [[relics|sacred bones]] were moved to the monastery Mileseva in southern Serbia. 360 years later the Ottoman Turks dug up his relics and burned them in the main square in Belgrade.

==Legacy==
St. Sava is remembered as the founder of the independent Serbian Orthodox Church and is celebrated as the [[patron saint]] of education and medicine among Serbs. Since the 1830s, St. Sava has been the patron saint of Serb schools and schoolchildren. On his feast day, students partake in recitals in church.

The Temple of St. Sava in Belgrade, whose construction was planned to start in 1939 but actually began in 1985 and completed in 2004, is the largest active Orthodox temple in the world today. It was built on the place where the holy bones were burned.

==Quotation==

''At first we were confused. The East thought that we were West, while the West considered us to be East. Some of us misunderstood our place in the clash of currents, so they cried that we belong to neither side, and others that we belong exclusively to one side or the other. But I tell you, Ireneus, we are doomed by fate to be the East in the West and the West in the East, to acknowledge only heavenly Jerusalem beyond us, and here on earth—no one''
:—''St. Sava to Ireneus, 13th century''

== Hymnography ==
[[Troparion]] - Tone 3

:Thou wast a guide to the Way of Life, a first Hierarch and a teacher;
:thou didst come and enlighten thy home country, O Sava,
:and give it rebirth by the Holy Spirit.
:Thou hast planted thy children like olive trees in the spiritual Paradise.
:O [[Equal-to-the-Apostles]] and Saints, pray to Christ our God to grant us His great mercy. [http://www.stsava-milw.org/index_eng.asp]

[[Kontakion]] - Tone 8

:As the first great hierarch and co-worker with the [[Apostles]],
:the Church of thy people magnifies thee;
:and since thou hast found favor with Christ,
:save us by thy prayers from every calamity,
:so that we may proclaim to thee: Rejoice, God-wise Father Sava.

Troparion - Tone 8

:O guide of Orthodoxy and blessed teacher of virtues,
:purifier and [[enlightener]] of thy homeland,
:beauty of monastics,
:most wise Father, Holy Sava,
:by thy teaching thou didst enlighten thy people,
:O flute of the Spirit, pray to Christ God for our souls.

==Source==
* [[:wikipedia:Saint Sava|''Saint Sava'' on Wikipedia]]

==External links and references==
* [http://ocafs.oca.org/FeastSaintsViewer.asp?SID=4&ID=1&FSID=100156 St. Sava I, First Archbishop of Serbia] ([[OCA]])
* [http://www.kosovo.com/sava.html Life of our Holy Father Sava I: Enlightener and First Archbishop of the Serbs (+1235)]
* [http://home.it.net.au/~jgrapsas/pages/sava.htm St Sava of Serbia] ([[Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia]])
* [http://www.slavicnet.com/pls/lib/bib.search Library ''Saint Sava''] - Online Library Cataloging System
* [http://www.rastko.org.yu/knjizevnost/liturgicka/svsava-sabrana/index_c.html Collected works] (in Serbian language)

== Succesion ==

{{start box}}
{{succession|
before=—|
title=[[List of Patriarchs of Serbia|Archbishop of Serbia]]|
years=1219-1233|
after=St. [[Arsenius I (Sremac) of Pec|Arsenije]]}}
{{end box}}

[[Category:Bishops]]
[[Category:Patriarchs of Serbia]]
[[Category:Saints]]
[[Category:Serbian Saints]]

[[sr:Сава српски]]

File:SvetiSavaMileseva.jpg

2007-03-28T09:52:08Z

Jovanvb: *From commons, from [http://www.srpskidespot.org.yu/Slike/svetiSavaMileseva.htm] with premmision. Image on commons you can see [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:SvetiSavaMileseva.jpg there] == Licensing == {{GFDL}}

*From commons, from [http://www.srpskidespot.org.yu/Slike/svetiSavaMileseva.htm] with premmision. Image on commons you can see [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:SvetiSavaMileseva.jpg there]
== Licensing ==
{{GFDL}}

User talk:FrJohn

2007-03-27T19:32:24Z

Jovanvb: /* Sr-orthodoxwiki */

<div id="shortcut" style="border: 1px solid #CC9; margin: 0em 1em 0em 1em; text-align: center; padding:5px; clear: both; background-color:#F1F1DE">
''Welcome to my discussion page. Please post new messages to the bottom of the page and use headings when starting new discussion topics. Please also sign and date your entries by inserting '''<nowiki>- ~~~~</nowiki>''' at the end. Thank you. [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new}} Start a new discussion topic.]''
----
''[[/archived discussion 1]] (through 09-07-2005)'' 
''[[/archived discussion 2]] (through 11-20-2005)'' 
''[[/archived discussion 3]] (through 05-24-2006)''
</div>

__TOC__

== God bless you ==
I hope that we can do a very nice site in arabic --[[User:Habib|Habib]] 19:23, November 10, 2006 (PST)

== Protest ==

Fr. John,
I published my article on Hebrew Catholics in the Orthodox Wiki portal for two reasons, the first is I couldn't log in the General Wikipedia and the second because it is related to an Eastern spirituality. You said you deleted it because it is not convenient for your site, i mean, you consider it not appropriate. So, where is the information right for your believers and anybody else? Where is the Christian spirit you proclaim? I don't pretend to alien or romanize the Orthodoxy, as i understand we are from the same Apostolic root. Where is the final period for a real unity? When until are the Latin and Orthodox fighting for little things?
I'm a great admiror of the Eastern culture and its ritual traditions. I respect and support the diversity in the Church of Christ. I believe in the unity but not the uniformity. So, if you could see i look for the defined identities from the peoples.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Levikahano|Levikahano]] ([[User talk:Levikahano|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Levikahano|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

::Hi Levikahano, It's not right for OrthodoxWiki because it deals with a Roman Catholic group. I'm not saying the group isn't important or that we may share many things, but this generally isn't in the scope of material that we would include here. I would encourage you to put it on a Catholic wiki, or even on Wikipedia. May God bless you. {{User:FrJohn/sig}}

== Deletes and undeletes? ==

I'm curious as to what exactly you're doing. Are you trying to erase article histories to remove direct evidence of vandalism? If so, it makes examining the legitimate part of the histories somewhat difficult... :/ —[[User:ASDamick|Dcn. Andrew]] [[User_talk:ASDamick|talk]] [[Special:Randompage|random]] [[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|contribs]] 16:03, June 3, 2006 (CDT)

== Book sources page formatting ==

There are HTML formatting problems on the [[Special:Booksources]] page. (after the ISBN number is entered) This once worked but now does not. There is no way for me to fix it, so I'll just report it. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 12:57, June 13, 2006 (CDT)

:I went ahead and wikified the page. Is there a particular reason why the html formatting no longer works? —[[User:Magda|magda]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 13:09, June 13, 2006 (CDT)

::Hmm... probably has to do with the upgrade to 1.6. I'm out of town now, but I'll try to have a look next week when I get back. [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]

==Name blocks==
Are we able to block certain usernames from being used? Right now, the system of renaming has its advantages in the history section of vandalised articles, but the same usernames can still be reused - can we put, say, a '*vandal*' block up? — edited by [[User:Pistevo|Pι]][[Special:Listusers/sysop|s]][[User talk:Pistevo|τ]][[Special:Contributions/Pistevo|é]][[User:Pistevo|vο]] at 21:57, June 16, 2006 (CDT)

:I think it's possible, but I'll have to refresh my memory on this. Let me try to look at this later in the week. [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]
::It is, you need [[:metawikipedia:Username Blacklist|this]] extension. [[User:Gregg|Gregg]] 15:40, June 17, 2006 (CDT)

:::Thanks Gregg! That makes it easy. {{User:FrJohn/sig}}
:::P.S. If anyone has an idea what should be blocked, please send me an email.

== Hello, Father ==

Thanks for the message. I'm a php programmer. I'm mystified by wiki, but I'll figure it out.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Rightwingprof|Rightwingprof]] ([[User talk:Rightwingprof|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Rightwingprof|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

==Re:==

Thanks, not sure how much I can, or will contribute, but hey, maybe I will learn something.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Mmatga2me99|Mmatga2me99]] ([[User talk:Mmatga2me99|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mmatga2me99|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

== Thank you for the welcome ==

Dear Fr John,

Thank you for the kind welcome. Much appreciated. It's nice to be here. -[[User:Antonios aigyptos|Antonios]] 15:27, August 5, 2006 (CDT)

== Sysop ==

Thank you, Father John. I find it a pleasure to accept your invitation. I wouldn't do too well on handling theological subject, but history, etc. and sounding off on non-theological subject I can do.

I had been meaning to e-mailing you on the subject of sound (audio) lifes, but have kept putting it off. I have a recording of my father-in-law's choir (Victor Pokrovsky) that I recorded at Nicolai-do in 1957 and have wondered if you want to place audio files on Orthodoxwiki. I have the file in two formats, AIFF Audio file and MP3 Audio file. I know the perferred format is 'OGG' but so far I haven't found the means to convert it. The file is short, 11 minutes, but of course is a large, 112MB and 127 MB. There is a slight pause at about a one third point for a shorter version.

I can send the file to you if you have access to a means to convert the file, when I get to a high speed connection. I'm on dial-up. Or less I could just up-load load one of the two versions I have.[[User:Wsk|Wsk]] 20:28, August 10, 2006 (CDT)

::Hi Bill, Of course it's a nice addition, but sysops generally aren't the ones to do the heavy theological writing. Mainly they're just empowered to do a few extra things for the good of the order. Thanks for accepting!
::You might not have noticed yet my very subtle announcement on the [[OrthodoxWiki:News|news page]] about [[osource:Main_Page|OrthodoxSource]], a new sister project to OrthodoxWiki (very much in ''alpha'' stage at this point, which is why the announcement wasn't more strongly stated). The audio recording you mentioned would be great on that site - it's exactly the kind of thing I envisioned it for actually.
::I haven't worked out what to do with large media files yet. There's a few possibilities, including using a free third-party service like [http://ourmedia.org OurMedia]. I think I'd rather keep more direct control of the archives though, so I'm thinking about using something like Amazon's S3 service, which is totally scalable. The downside is that I'd have to ask for donations to cover some of the (relatively minimal, at least initially) cost. We have room to grow on the server we're on, but I don't want to overwhelm things, especially if our media hosting grows, as I hope it will.
::In terms of formats, I envision being much less strict than Wikimedia Commons - my concern would be less for openness of the format than for general accessibility. In this regard AIFF/MP3 are hard to beat. Maybe the easiest thing to do would be to email you with an FTP login, then you can upload the files at your leisure. Does that sound ok? [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]] 21:50, August 10, 2006 (CDT)

Your offer, Fr. John, sounds very good. I received your e-mail and now I will send the file as soon as I learn to use the File Transfer Protocol (FTP). This is a first for me. The OrthodxSource sounds like a great addition.[[User:Wsk|Wsk]] 20:10, August 15, 2006 (CDT)

== Sysop invite ==

Why, thank you, Father. I'd certainly like to help. My technical/wiki mark-up skills may not be that great, but I'm willing to do anything I can. Just tell me what I need to do next. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 22:47, August 10, 2006 (CDT)

:Thanks for accepting, Gabriela. You've got enough down, and I'm sure you can keep learning. I'll send you an invite to the Sysop list. You can look over the archives if you want to get an idea of where we have been. [[User:FrJohn|Fr. John]]

== become an OrthodoxWiki sysop ==

Thank you for the invite Father John, I'd be glad to help when I can. I am going to be busy for the next few weeks, but then I'll be able to give it more time. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 20:05, August 14, 2006 (CDT)

==Contributed articles==
I've forgotten - are contributed articles supposed to be within the normal OW space, or is there a special place set aside for them? — edited by [[User:Pistevo|Pιsτévο]] ''[[User talk:Pistevo|talk]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|complaints]]'' at 03:19, September 1, 2006 (CDT)

:Hi Pistevo, we're planning to move them all to OrthodoxSource. It hasn't really launched yet, so maybe we should just post it here with a <nowiki>{transfer}</nowiki> tag. — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

== Dcn ASDamick? ==

Dear Fr John: I wonder if you know what's become of Deacon ASDamick? His user pages both here and on Wikipedia list him as departed indefinitely from the services; but as he was so active (I interacted more with him there than here, I do confess), I wonder what's happened? —[[User:Antonios_aigyptos|Antonios Aigyptos]][[User_talk:Antonios_aigyptos|talk]] 16:36, September 4, 2006 (CDT)

::Hi, He's taking a (hopefully temporary) leave of absence for while. — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

Ah, I see. Well, as long as nothing's terribly wrong. From the on-line perspective, he's just up and vanished with no means of contact -- so one worries! —[[User:Antonios_aigyptos|Antonios Aigyptos]][[User_talk:Antonios_aigyptos|talk]] 17:17, September 4, 2006 (CDT)

:Yep, I can see that. Thanks for your concern - he's fine though. And still email-able. — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

== [[Primus inter pares]] article ==

Hello Father,

I saw that you added the Wikipedia source link to the article in question. I read the parts of the style manual regarding how to do that (besides copying and pasting the actual Wikipedia URL), but I still seem to be confused.

Also, that link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primus_inter_pares%26oldid%3D67646207, also seems to result in a Wikipedia error.

I tried to import the article as best I could, my apologies if I erred.

[[User:Hellenica|Hellenica]] 22:20, September 8, 2006 (CDT)

:Hi Hellenica, Thanks for your work here. Good catch on the link. You don't need to apologize - you're just learning. Because of the licensing, we need to explicitly state the Wikipedia article as a source. Since it doesn't add anything to what's currently there, the current article doesn't need to be cited as an external link. If you don't have time to edit all the wikipedia-specific stuff out, and add Orthodox stuff in, just mark it with a <nowiki>{{cleanup}}</nowiki> tag until it's been fixed up. Again, thanks! — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

== Vandalism ==

There is a user, [[User:Youte2|Youte2]] who is defacing countless articles, it looks like a bot. [[User:Hellenica|Hellenica]] 21:26, September 9, 2006 (CDT)

:Thanks, got him. — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

== Re: My e-mail address ==

Dear Fr. John,
 You know, actually I thought about that myself, but I didn't consider it such a problem because I already get spammed up to the lagoon, what with the e-mail address embedded in the headers of my web sites. Fortunately, Yahoo! has made it very easy to clean out all that bulk mail with just a few clicks.
 But you're right. Why make a bad problem even worse? Thank you for your concern and for making that change.
 Sincerely, John Bockman

:No problem, glad to help. Yours, — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

== Upload problems ==

I'm having a problem uploading an image of the late Metropolitan Vitaly. I get an error message when I do that.:
Internal error

Could not copy file "/tmp/phptpCoq5" to "/home/owiki/public_html/images/6/66/MetropolitanVitaly.jpg".

:Thanks for pasting in the whole error message - that helps! I'm not really sure what happened, but it looks like there was a corrupted file under that same name. I've deleted it - please try again and let me know if you have any more problems. Thanks! - Fr. John

::Nope, I'm still getting the same problem

::Could not copy file "/tmp/phpkVAglv" to "/home/owiki/public_html/images/6/66/MetropolitanVitaly.jpg".
::--[[User:Aleks|Aleks]] 15:12, September 26, 2006 (CDT)

:Hmm.... ""/tmp/phpkVAgl" is your local path? What program are you using to store the image? I wonder what would happen if you tried renaming the source filename to something more standard, with a MIME type that the wiki would recognize. There are MIME restrictions in place which prevent "unmarked" files without certain extensions from being uploaded. You might also type a different destination filename. Let me know again if that doesn't work. Thanks, — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]]
::Nope, my path local path is "/home/sasha/Desktop/MetropolitanVitaly.jpg". This must be some kind of path on the server. I'm using Mozilla Firefox on Linux (Fedora Core 5). The problem occurs with any image of Metropolitan Vitaly. The images are all jpg. If you'd like, Father, I can e-mail the image to you and you can try uploading it.
([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])
:This problem is now fixed. — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk]) 09:54, September 27, 2006 (CDT)

== Featured ==

Thanks! I've actually been away for two weeks, which is why it hasn't changed - I thought I put it on my userpage, but apparently not... — edited by [[User:Pistevo|Pιsτévο]] ''[[User talk:Pistevo|talk]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|complaints]]'' at 20:17, October 6, 2006 (CDT)

Hi Fr. John,

Thanks for that it looks much neater now, okay this is a sad point and feel free to yell at me for it - now no one will know that I did it? as it doesn't list me as being involved/ a contributor in the page - now I know that as a Wiki user that shouldn't bother me as it's really all aobut growing the knowledge base but I guess I am vain and also I could use the brownie points! Sorry.
But really I do like what you have done and it really does look much better and I uderstand entirely why you have done it, so please feel free to totally ignore my cribbing and moaning.

Thanks

Mela91e

==Father Bless!==

Father bless!

Hello Fr. John,
I found your link here via the discussion page at Wikicath.org. Sadly this Catholic wiki is being overrun by spam links and misguided attempts by Protestants to convince us we're all pagans. I saw that you'd made an offer to help deal with the spam, do you know if the owner of WikiCath is going to do something about it soon? Or perhaps I should just find another Catholic wiki =/

Anyways, I do love this Orthodox Wiki and want to see something similar for us Catholics. :)

You humble brother in Christ,
-Devin
a sinner
- [[User:Dscherck|Dscherck]] 23:40, November 3, 2006 (PST)

==Recent Changes==
Not sure what the problem is - or the solution - but [[Special:Recent changes]] keeps coming up as an executable. — edited by [[User:Pistevo|Pιsτévο]] ''[[User talk:Pistevo|talk]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|complaints]]'' at 05:42, November 4, 2006 (PST)
:I'm using Firefox 1.5.0.7. It's not even letting me go to a page and then load; I click and it pops up that Firefox is trying to open a "application/x-httpd-php" file from orthodoxwiki.org. My RSS feed is working fine, though. — edited by [[User:Pistevo|Pιsτévο]] ''[[User talk:Pistevo|talk]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|complaints]]'' at 02:12, November 5, 2006 (PST)
::Still the same. Also, for whatever reason, it works fine using Internet Explorer. — edited by [[User:Pistevo|Pιsτévο]] ''[[User talk:Pistevo|talk]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|complaints]]'' at 00:34, November 6, 2006 (PST)
::Also, it works fine in Firefox 2, which I've just installed. — edited by [[User:Pistevo|Pιsτévο]] ''[[User talk:Pistevo|talk]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|complaints]]'' at 00:52, November 6, 2006 (PST)
:Not sure what to say at this point, except I'm glad it's working for you! I have noticed this problem with a few sites in the past, and I'll continue to dig a little bit and see it I can't find out anything more. Thanks, — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

== Edit Throttling ==

Hi FrJohn, I'm working on an Edit Throttling Mediawiki extension. I've seen you guys have faced a lot of vandalism in the past. I tried to install Bad Behavior, but it didnt work on our wiki. We were vandalized again using a Move flood (lots of Moves in a short time). I've also seen BB denies some legitimate users. Have you been vandalized recently and what else are you using besides Bad Behavior to stop vandal bots and human vandals, while not causing inconvinience to legitimate users? thanks! --[[User:JohnK|JohnK]] 18:34, November 5, 2006 (PST)
:Hi FrJohn, thanks for response. Today I finished up writing the Edit Throttle extension and have put it into place for testing. I think it will work well, even for your problem:
::Basically, the only problem that remains is when a human agent creates an account with a temporary email address and then blasts us.
:In my ET extension, if a user is not on some "safe lists" (which can be edited only by SysOps like any Mediawiki page [just like in the SpamBlacklist extension page]), he will get blocked automatically if he tries to make more than for example 5 edits in 1 minute, or 20 edits in one hour (these numbers can be adjusted). Our wiki also requires people to login so thats also one help. Although maybe later I'll change this but with lots of alterations to make sure people's IP addresses dont become public etc. I did the login thing primarily so our IP addresses arent put out in public (really not wise of Mediawiki developers to get this idea of throwing out people's IP's for the world to see). I'm testing this extension and its working great for now. I even adjusted the Spam blackList so it only scans for spam, if a user is not on those safe lists. The theory behind all of this is simple: Except for WikiPedia, all wikis are usually edited by a small group of people. That makes it possible for this extension to do its job nicely. I might ask you sometime more detail on the other extensions/utilities you've installed - if the ET doesnt work well. If it works well for me after I've tested it nicely, I'll let you know if you would like to have it to (it will probably not be coded best, but atleast it works). I love the idea of these safe lists. This is perfect for wikis like ours, where a small number of people edit the wiki. For example you have about 2000 users, which is good. Its manageable and even ideal to have these safe lists. Even if a user is not on the safe lists, he can still edit, but more strict limits will be imposed on his editing, just to make sure we dont have a vandal at large. I even have a function in there, which detects lots of edits from people who are not on the safe list, and then it locks the wiki, allowing only "safe list" users to edit the wiki. This is useful if vandals use anonymous proxies with different IP's to make a flood that way, or if a group of vandals decide to attack a wiki at the same time. Safe list users get free tickets. Others have to be scrutinized. With the control of the Safe lists only in the hands of Sysops, its easy to control access. Doing that saves a lot of headache, where all we'd be doing is either fearing when the next attack is going to happen or reverting the attacks. There's another list "Frequent editors". That list has special people on it like Sysops, or people who we know edit the wiki a lot. To them, no limits of any kind are imposed. I'm excited and cant wait for our first vandal to attack to see what happens. Sometime I might ask you for advice for possible patterns of vandalism we could deal with. Our wiki is very controversial (means, a large group of people hate our presence to varying degrees) and so it was absolutely important to have these protections in place, otherwise we could not survive. All we'd be doing is reverting attacks if we werent protected so this will be very helpful for us. Because this is new, I'm sure the system can be breaken by some means or patterns ov vandalism and I'll see what goes on and adjust accordingly. So many other things as well can be put in place and designed, for example, I could limit the number of edits depending on the age of the user. If a user is only 60 minutes old (fresh user created), it could only do 5 edits and then further editing could only be possible if we add it to the Safe list. The process would be designed to be transparent to the genuine editor, but a quick road block to the vandal. We could even possibly limit IP edits. For example, we could have a maximum of 10 anonymous edits everdday just to keep things in check. These kinds of checks can also be created but for now, I'll stay with what I have and just allow logged-in edits. --[[User:JohnK|JohnK]] 22:06, November 12, 2006 (PST)

::This sounds very good, John. I'd love to give it a try. I like the idea too of being able to restrict by age of user. Instead of putting 1000 people on the safe list, I could just specify that any accounts older than 3 months can edit more furiously than brand new accounts. I don't care too much about the elegance of the code, as long as server load isn't dramatically increased. I'd be happy to use OrthodoxWiki as a test wiki for you. Happily, we're at the point right now where automated bot attacks aren't really a problem, and the occasional human ones get cleaned up pretty quickly. I could see ET as a way to further cut down on cleanup costs, though. God bless! — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])
:::Ok great. I'm testing it out on our own wiki first right now and have some more fine tunings to do and then I'll probably give the script to you after I think its good and ready. The server load will be fine, yes. The script is very efficient. It basically only runs if a user moves or edits (which is rare on small wikis, or at most a maximum of every few minutes or sometimes even hours). If a script finds a user on the Frequent Editor list, it exits right away. My script actually helped reduce the load becuase it doesnt process Safe user posts for spam, so thats a big efficiency (the SpamBlacklist is a huge long list of possible spam URL's and certainly for example, we dont need established editors' posts being monitored for spam. Thats ridiculous and wastes server resources). So you're right then, its the new accounts that are always a problem. I'll fine tune and get back you sometime. If possible could you give me some links where I can see where vandalism took place on your wiki here? Then I can incorporate those behaviors into the script if possible.
:::I'm also trying to make it so that all the parameters (e.g. minimum user age: 3 months) can be adjusted easily on the wiki, without need for us to get into PHP and FTP, and then all we need is to login and do these changes. Also I plan to try to introduce some sort of emergency button that halts editing from users not on our safe lists, and also another button which halts all editing. This can be helpful in the worst situation where there's lots of flooding going on and we're not sitting on our PC with access to the server code. Of course the automatic blocks are important. If we're not at our PC, we dont want to come back and find all our pages vandalized (like I experienced two times) and since we're not always at the PC, we want the auto blocks to take care of these things. I'll be fine tuning the script in the coming days and weeks for these kinds of features. Since vandalism is not a problem for you right now, I guess you wouldn't need the script in an emergency, correct? So I'll just fine tune and make it bug free to make sure it works, before giving it to you. If you'd still like a copy, let me know, however, there may be some bugs there that I havent caught so I would say you could wait a little before testing it out on your wiki. Lets see what happens today. The vandal usually strikes after 24 hours of opening up the wiki so I expect some thing caught in the trap if that script works. Meanwhile if you have any suggestions for what this script could do, feel free to propose any ideas that you think will be effective in reducing vandalism while least inconveniencing genuine users.--[[User:JohnK|JohnK]] 15:28, November 13, 2006 (PST)
::::FrJohn, also, what kind of automatic restrictions do you think should apply to users not older than 3 months? Posts/day limit? Links limit? I'll be looking forwarding to seeing your vandalism examples so I can observe. Another thing, do you have a link for the single user IP extension? The one which enforces one user registration per IP.--[[User:JohnK|JohnK]] 04:29, November 15, 2006 (PST)

:Hi John, Sorry for the delay here. What I think would be most useful and complement what some of the other extensions do would be edit/post limits per hour and per day, customizable for each wiki, and able to be tweaked by age of account. That sounds good. Links haven't really been a problem for us since we put in "bad behavior" - the spam-bots go elsewhere, but I can imagine this being helpful in some situations. I don't think an extension to enforce one account per IP is a good idea - there are too many folks with shared computers or dynamic IPs out there. I use the espionage extension for this purpose - just to cross check any suspicious accounts to see if there's multiple per IP. Sincerely yours, — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])
::Thanks. I already have a function that calculates the age of a user, so I can easily get that into the system. What do you think would be good limits on the number of edits and the age too? I can create multiple levels of protection as well (e.g. 3 months, 6 months, 9 etc) and assign edit limits to each "age" level. There's no limit to what we can do, maybe just your idea of the 3 months is good. My extension has become quite customized although yes its as simple as adding the extension include in the LocalSettings.php. There are many things which i can turn into "options" that each wiki can customize itself with. My next step is trying to hide the page on the wiki which will hold all our variables (edit limits etc). I dont want hackers to figure out the limits otherwise they'll try to exploit the system and although it will be an added nuisance, its just better that the Variables page is out of public view. its meant to be an Admin only page. For now I'm still testing it and refining it as I go along. Every few days I make an small improvement in it.--[[User:JohnK|JohnK]] 18:01, November 17, 2006 (PST)

:Hi John, Hmm... Since we haven't had too many problems lately, I'd want something that wouldn't really get in people's way - like 4-5 edits/min, 10+ edits in 5 mins or 20 edits/hour for users under 3 months. I don't think it's needs to have too many levels - just one for new users and one for older users. For other wikis that don't require accounts or email confirmation, these features might eb more useful. I also don't think it would necessarily need a wiki page - I think many MediaWiki sysops will be used to tweaking settings in a file, as long as the documentation is clear. Thanks, — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])
::I can do that easily. I just need to find a way to hide a page from the public view so only sysops can see/edit the system Varaibles page. After that I can make it customizable through the edit page. I like the idea of being able to edit it through the wiki. That way we dont have go in, edit and upload through FTP. Do you know some PHP? I could send you the code and you could edit it as you like, although I havent put in the age check yet.--[[User:JohnK|JohnK]] 13:40, November 18, 2006 (PST)
:::See though, your proposal can break the system. A hacker could register, wait for 3 months and then flood. Thats why I believe the safe lists is a good idea. Either that, or apply limits to _everyone_, regardless. We may _adjust_ the limits for users older than 3 months, that would be better than not having any limits at all for possibly a hacker who registered and waited for 3 months. The limits may be alarming at first, but if you look at recent changes, people really dont edit more than what you said, 5 posts/minute, e.g. I used my age function now but I commented it out, thinking that this can break the system. The "no limits" should _only_ be applied to people who we know for sure, will never vandalize (unless their passwords are stolen, but this danger exists for anything, not just a wiki so it has to be disregarded). If I put in a check that puts higher editing limits for users older than 3 months, that sounds reasonable, but not to remove the limits altogether. What i will do is put such a limit there, but it will be up to you. You can set the age limits for "old" users so high, that its practically impossible to break them my human editing, so it will basically amount to "no limits". Others like me will bring down the limits for every user regardless, to be safe.
:::Do you know of any good way to hide a page so only sysops can see/edit it?--[[User:JohnK|JohnK]] 14:38, November 18, 2006 (PST)

Hi John, You have a point there. I guess we've dealt with this by using bad behavior, which is effective against bots, and giving sysops the ability to ban users and IP's. In the context of our active community, this has worked reasonably well. We also have a "mass delete" extension installed which allows us to delete all new pages created by a user at once. Even with all fo this, I see a good. place for edit limits. There will certainly be different needs on different wikis. A safelist seems like a good idea too. As for how to hide a page, I don't know myself, but there are some good models out there. I think, e.g. of the "Last User Login" or "UserScore" extension, as well as many others. You can default to the sysop of bureaucrat user flag, or create a custom user group... — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

hey FrJohn, hah! We had out first vandal caught last night. By the time the roach started to wreck havoc, it was 4am in the morning my time so there would be no way I could have stopped it. After 6 edits, it was automatically blocked. Its IP was blocked automatically by mediawiki's default system for 24 hours so that prevented his other nick from doing damage, although my own protection would have blocked the IP anyway if it had gotten more edits from that IP. The way it got triggered is yes, it did too many edits in a certain amount of time. I have a block set even for a 72 hour monitoring. This is great. Although so much more can be done e.g.:
#log of activity
#Clear specificed blocks
#various options like: Age limit monitoring (like you said)
#Automatic rollback (that would be awesome)
#Being able to adjust variables and options on the wiki - no need to go into FTP. This is helpful when somoene is installing the system and testing it for their own wiki.
Some error checking needs to be done too.

One big cool thing about this extension is, it has 3 levels of checks:
# Ban by Username (too many edits coming a username). Next level, if that doesnt stop it:
# Ban by IP (too many edits coming from an IP. Useful if multiple usernames from the same IP doing the damage - this is only limited to fast edits which break the throttle limit). If the IP block doesnt stop it, check next limit:
# Halt all editing from "Unsafe" users (users not present on our Safe lists, which really means new users on the wiki whom we dont know anything about yet). This is useful for example, if its a flood of vandals targetting the wiki at the same time.
So this is really fool proof. Each level has a higher limits than the previous level, so its triggered only if needed. Plus, the Safe users get free tickets and higher limits. The "Frequent" editors get no limits at all. I say if a Vandal was clever enough to make himself look like a real editor, it would be worth undoing all his damage at some point since he had made some contributions. The likelyhood of that happening is real low, I mean no one would go through the trouble of appearing like a genuine editor, only to get in the Frequent users list and then take his chance to wreck havoc. Even if he did, we'll atleast have his good edits after we've restored the wiki and reverted the edits.

I only had do to 3 rollbacks, took me a minute. More improvements I believe will come as the system is improved and tested like last night. A lot of options can be put in it. I'll work on this stuff more, I dont want to release it right now, although if you really need a copy right now, let me know and I'll make arrangements. Do you have any examples of recent vandalism? If you could give me a few links to vandalism done on your wiki in the past, I can learn from that behavior and adjust my extension. And oh again, Bad behavior might not have stopped the vandalism last night. It failed to stop it once and it denies genuine users, so I've disabled it since I had the new protection which has worked perfectly. I'm pleased, to say the least. Our wiki would have been ravaged by the time I woke up, had the protection not been there. And its pretty silly that Mediawiki doesnt have these protections by default. By the way, I get a Javascript error in your website here when the Edit box loads. It might have to do something with the little "make a map" thing. What is that? I'd like to see a sample of possible, it might be useful for our wiki too. Also, the mass delete sounds good. Whats the name of that extension? I see that your [http://orthodoxwiki.org/MediaWiki:Monobook.js CSS] file doesnt show anything, yet it looks like you're editing it. Does this mean the content is hidden from other users, but only you can see and edit it? If so, this could be useful for the Variables page I want to make. Looks like you're having a lot of traffic right now (which is good), the site was responding slower.--[[User:JohnK|JohnK]] 07:10, November 20, 2006 (PST)

:Hi John, That's great that you've got it up and running and it's functioning well. I hope it helps some wiki-sysops gain control of their sites again! You can find the "Mass delete" extension [http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/Nuke/ here]. I've been having some trouble with Javascript lately - and just disabled the GoogleMaps extension (again) for the reason you mentioned. I expect Monobook.css and js are protected. You can edit your own user versions though. Best wishes, — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

== Help Editing page ==

FrJohn, I do not know if you are looking at this, but I think that the [[Help:Editing]] page has a frame problem. The left menu gets loaded with the text on the right. - [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 08:09, November 8, 2006 (PST)

:Weird! Thanks for the heads up. — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

==Featured Article - [[Episcopi vagantes]]==
Wasn't terribly happy with the pic that I used - that one was used because Abp Aftimios is the source of a number of "Orthodox" episcopi vagantes. Would be very happy if a suggestion of a more appropriate photo/picture could be made. — edited by [[User:Pistevo|Pιsτévο]] ''[[User talk:Pistevo|talk]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|complaints]]'' at 16:34, November 24, 2006 (PST)

== Romanian diocese in OCA, vs. Romanian Archdiocese ==

Bless me father John,

I understand very well your position and arguments concerning the modification I made in the article about ROEA. At this moment I don't have time to look for a reference for the assertion I made. However, this is a well-known fact in the Romanian community.

I presume that the author took the "argument" with the WW II as a cause for the staying of bishop Policarp in Romania from one of the official histories of ROEA.

However, this is a very weak argument, because Romania entered in the WW II only in 1941, after 2 years.

Between us, the real reason was the political pressure made by a leftist group in DC, on behalf of the dean J. Trutza's group, who was disturbed by the "monarchical" leadership of Bishop Policarp. The group started to "claim" his bishop only in 1946, when the communists forbade him to come to USA.

Moreover, I don't understand why you erased the the assertion regarding the canonicity of the 3 ucrainian bishops. This is so well-known by everybody (the 10-year anniversry book of OCA, edited by Fr Alexander Schmeman makes a clear reference to this fact, by the way), and even confirmed by the following text. I would also like to get an explanation for the delay of one year between the deal between ROEA and Metropolia, and the re-ordiantion of Bp. Trifa.

My opinion is that, if you want to be consistent, you have to erase the hole article, asking for independent references.

Yours in Christ,

deacon Ioan

::Hi Deacon Ioan, Thanks for your explanations. I am not very familiar with the situation. I think what worried me were the vague assertions without much detail... some "communist group", "uncanonical"... I changed the part about the uncanonical bishops in the Ukraine too becuase this needs more detail - the Ukraine, as a border-land, has often been a canonical mess. Which group were these bishops in, and what were the circumstances of the ordination? By simply citing them as uncanonical and saying syaing which group they belonged to, and so on, it makes the impression that the OrthodoxWiki article is arguing against the legitimacy of the current church. We can certainly document disputes, it wouldn't be our place to take a position on this (unless this was something accepted across Orthodox jurisdictions worldwide). Maybe all of this material could be put on the associated talk page for now, until more detail is collected? Thanks for your work here, — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

== Articles on WCC and NCC ==

Father, bless.

I was looking today at the article on [[Ecumenism]] and noticed that there are links for the [[World Council of Churches|WCC]] and the NCC. The WCC article is a stub with a single link. I'm wondering if these two possible articles have a "direct connection" (per the [[OrthodoxWiki:Style Manual|Style Manual]] to Orthodoxy. It seems to me that any information about either body could be included as a section in the Ecumenism article. To give some scope: It's been two years since the creation of the WCC article, and all we have is a single link. What think you? --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 10:56, January 4, 2007 (PST)

:Hi Basil, I think I was the one who created them a long time ago. My hope was that each would offer a history of Orthodox involvement in the organization - there is a lot to say! But I think you'e right - if you want to consolidate the material in the ecumenism article, I think that would be good. We can "branch off" (!) the article again if someone wants to do the work on it. Thanks for writing, — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

::Based on [[User:ASDamick|FrAndrew]]'s input and yours, I have made the WCC article and the NCC article redirects to [[Ecumenism]]. See [[Talk:World_Council_of_Churches|talk page for the WCC article]]. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 15:36, January 4, 2007 (PST)

:Many thanks Father John.:) (re:Kollyvades article)
:No worries, I agree completely. Since I only had a small amount of infomation on that subject from another Orthodox website, I thought it might be better just to list the subject to make it known and let someone else continue, but I see your point and I agree completely. Will try to do a little research when i have some time and redo the article! Much appreciated. --[[User:Angellight_888|Chris]]

== OrthodoxWiki en español ==

Dear father John:

I'm interested in colaborate in this wiki, but starting an OrthodoxWiki in spanish (i'm Chilean)
I hope that we can do a very nice site

God bless you

In Christ
--[[User:Alstradiaan|Alstradiaan]] 16:15, February 2, 2007 (PST)

PD: Excuse me, my english is awful

== Comment ==

FrJohn, will you please go to my wiki wikireligion and edit it some. Also do you mind if I take content from this wiki and put it there. I have a link on my user page. God bless. --[[User:Sir James Paul|Sir James Paul]] 15:28, February 5, 2007 (PST)

== Wikireligion ==

I agree with you. You have to remember we are a new wiki. We are talking about what our policies are going to be right now. Have a nice week and god bless. --[[User:Sir James Paul|Sir James Paul]] 17:32, March 8, 2007 (PST)

==Block==
LOL, sorry, I realized that immediately after I posted. I was just so outraged by the picture that I started clicking and typing as fast as I could and accidentally hit the enter key before I was even done with the comment. The end was supposed to say, "....Jesus Christ article." Otherwise I would have deleted the specifics upon further consideration. Whoops! [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 19:38, March 10, 2007 (PST)

==Re:Reply==
Dear Fr John

thank you for your reply

i'm a bit reluctant to contribute in a main article because my personal style of writing is not quite what an encyclopaedic entry suppose to be. but i would be really happy to write and to add my writings in the project as annexes, or other suplementary material. the main obstacle for that is time and an over-sensitivity for conceptual transparency (my frail knowledge of english language makes the things more difficult.) anyhow, i hope i will be able to help this really blessed project.

your blessing

vassili psyllis

: [[User:Vassilip|Vassilip]] 09:03, March 11, 2007 (PDT)

== Comment ==

If there is ever any outbreaks of vandalism here feel free to contact me at wikipedia. My User name is Sir james paul there. Have a nice week and may god bless you :) --[[User:Sir James Paul|Sir James Paul]] 19:51, March 13, 2007 (PDT)

{{imgdel}} —[[User:ASDamick|Fr. Andrew]] [[User_talk:ASDamick|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|contribs]] 12:06, March 16, 2007 (PDT)

== Skin ==

Somehow, that cursed rounded-edge skin suddenly took over my interface! :) Any way I can get back my nice, square edges again? —[[User:ASDamick|Fr. Andrew]] [[User_talk:ASDamick|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|contribs]] 12:10, March 16, 2007 (PDT)

:Hey you Fr. A - your [[User:ASDamick/monobook.css]] looks good. Maybe your browser chached the css file before you logged in? Try a hard refresh (shift+refresh) and see what happens! — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

::: I tried that a few times, but to no avail. But now I notice it's back to how it should be. (BTW, I stay logged in all the time.) —[[User:ASDamick|Fr. Andrew]] [[User_talk:ASDamick|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|contribs]] 12:38, March 16, 2007 (PDT)

== Orthodoxwiki in Serbian ==

Father, I would like to start Orthodoxwiki in Serbian. Could you help me.

:Dear [[User:Ddpbf|Ddpbf]], This is great news, and I would be very happy to facilitate an OrthodoxWiki in Serbian! Have you looked at [[OrthodoxWiki:Localization]]? Basically, we'd need to have some of the basic structural pages translated first. Maybe some of your fellow seminarians would be able to help also? If you can commit to this, I will set up a Serbian-language wiki installation for you to start on. God bless, — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])
:I will be able to do this but it will tak a time.--[[User:Ddpbf|Ddpbf]] 07:21, March 26, 2007 (PDT)

:I totally understand. Give me a couple days to get a installation up and running for you, and I will make you and admin and you can work on the live site. We'll announce it as an "alpha" project until the translations are done. You can work on it as you are able. Does that sound good? — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

== Serbian Orthodoxwiki ==

It sound great. Which pages must be translated first. I will start tomorrow with God's help.--[[User:Ddpbf|Ddpbf]] 09:18, March 26, 2007 (PDT)

:Great! The most important thing to start with I think is [[OrthodoxWiki:Copyright]]. You can skip some of the history about the "Revised" stuff, but the most important thing to get across, especially for people that aren't familiar with Wikipedia, is that by posting content, they are agreeing to license their work under a dual GFDL/CC license.

:The "click through language" that a user sees whenever they post something should also be changed to reflect our policy. This can be found at [[MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning]] - you'll have admin access to be able to edit this on the new site. Let me know if you have any questions about this!

:Beyond this, I'd start with the [[OrthodoxWiki:Disclaimer]] and the [[OrthodoxWiki:Privacy_policy]], and the the [[OrthodoxWiki:About]] page and the welcome text on the main page. As admin of this wiki, you'll have to have a good understanding of how templates work (such as the [[Template:Welcome|Welcome]] template) - I imagine there'd be some documentation about this on the Serbian Wikipedia. You should also know about InterWiki links (you'll be able to edit these too).

:Hope that helps! Let me know fi you have any more questions, and feel free to email me directly. I'll be sending you an invite to the OrthodoxWiki admin email list as well. — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk]) 19:45, March 26, 2007 (PDT)

:Are you good at graphics? We should make a sr.orthodoxwiki.org logo - I can also ask someone to help who has done one of the other logos. Also, I've used the Russian template to set up your wiki - we will need some translations in order to make things look right, specifically how should "OrthodoxWiki" look in Serbian? and what should the name of the copyright page be? — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

:[http://sr.orthodoxwiki.org sr.orthodoxwiki.org] is up, by the way.
:On of my felow swminarians is allready translating som of basic pages. I hope I will be able he will finish it before Friday. I think that logo of english verison will be fine for the start. --[[User:Ddpbf|Ddpbf]] 01:44, March 27, 2007 (PDT)
:copyright - Ауторско право; Bad Behavior - Недолично понашање; Rename user - Преименуј корисника; Protected pages - Заштићене стране; View and manipulate interwiki data - Погледај и управљај међувики подацима; Cite - цитирај; Espionage - Шпијунажа; Mass delete - Масовно брисање;{{unsigned|Ddpbf}}

== Interwiki ==

Good job on starting up the new Serbian OrthodoxWiki! It looks like some tweaking is needed over there to make the interwiki links work, though. (Take a look at the bottom of the [[:sr:Главна страна|main page]] there to see what I mean.)

We seriously need to get one going in Greek. I know no one's stepped up to the plate to head it up as yet, but it seems to me that this is vitally useful, considering that Greek is the primary language of the Church in history. Perhaps some advertising somewhere? —[[User:ASDamick|Fr. Andrew]] [[User_talk:ASDamick|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|contribs]] 05:49, March 27, 2007 (PDT)

:I think Greek and Spanish are the next two languages up. I'd be happy to set up wikis for them, but I don't think this is a good idea when there's no one to step up to the plate and moderate the wikis. I don't know these languages, so I have no idea what would be being posted and couldn't effectively moderate. As soon as we have at least one person who knows these languages and would be willing to begin some of the translating, I'm ready to go! — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

:: Indeed. By the way, I may have someone willing to work on one in Danish! —[[User:ASDamick|Fr. Andrew]] [[User_talk:ASDamick|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|contribs]] 07:43, March 27, 2007 (PDT)

:::Great! Let me know... — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])
::::We have problem with interwiki.
:::Still?
:It seams good now. Thanks--[[User:Ddpbf|Ddpbf]] 11:11, March 27, 2007 (PDT)

== Sr-orthodoxwiki ==

Hello. I have a few prepositions :>. First, I think that this will be good if you can give mi admin rights on sr (to change mediawiki and some other closed pages). I think that this isn't problem becouse new projects is starting and there must be admins, and Ddpbf havn't expirience with wikis. Second namespace Orthodoxwiki shuld be Православна енциклопедија: or if you can't make namespace of two words this should be Православна-енциклопедија:. For now this is it. All the best, and I apologise for my bad english --[[User:Jovanvb|Joca]] 11:54, March 27, 2007 (PDT)
:One correction. We was tolking (I and ddpbf) and we make decision to namespace equivalent to en: orthodoxwiki should be Двери: --[[User:Jovanvb|Joca]] 12:32, March 27, 2007 (PDT)

User talk:FrJohn

2007-03-27T18:54:21Z

Jovanvb: Sr-orthodoxwiki

OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza

2007-03-27T11:01:20Z

Jovanvb: IW

In a monastery, a '''[[refectory|trapeza]]''' (or ''refectory''), is the dining hall where monks and pilgrims gather for food and conversation. The OrthodoxWiki trapeza serves as the main discussion point for our website. Please feel free to join in - ask anything, suggest an idea, make a comment. We're glad to have you here. For other, more specifically designated discussion pages, check out the [[OrthodoxWiki:Community Portal|Community Portal]]. [[Category:OrthodoxWiki]]

* [[OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza/Archive 1|Archive 1]], Feb - Dec 2005 (formerly the [http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=OrthodoxWiki:Anything_Goes&oldid=22917 Anything Goes] page)
* [[OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza/Archive 2|Archive 2]], Feb 2005 - Aug 2006 (formerly the [http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=OrthodoxWiki:Questions&oldid=37973 Questions] page)
* [[OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza/Archive 2|Archive 3]], Oct 2005 - Aug 2006 (moved from [http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&oldid=37962 Talk:Main Page])

<center>
{| style="border: solid 1px #aaaaaa"
|'''[http://orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=OrthodoxWiki:Trapeza&action=edit&section=new Add new post]'''
|}
</center>

== Orthodox Dictionary ==

English - Russian - Greek - Romanian - Finnish - Swedish
-> http://www.ortodoksi.net/dict/search.php
[[User:HAP|HAP]] 00:47, January 5, 2007 (PST)

==Barnstar==
'''Asserted:''' We need to have an OrthodoxWiki [[w:Wikipedia:Barnstars|barnstar]]. —[[User:ASDamick|Dcn. Andrew]] [[User_talk:ASDamick|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|contribs]] 20:06, August 16, 2006 (CDT)
:Go for it! — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

==Project Ideas==
Check out the discussion of project ideas at [[OrthodoxWiki:Project Ideas]].

==The Real Presence==

How about a discussion of the real Presence according to Orthodoxy? It is hard to find good articles on this important topic online, and [[Eucharist]] is too brief in this regard. [[User:Willibald|Willibald]] 23:59, August 23, 2006 (CDT)

==Interwiki==
Hello, I would like to request someone to put in [[MediaWiki:Recentchangestext]] the relevant interwiki '''<nowiki>[[bg:Специални:Recentchanges]]</nowiki>''' to the bulgarian recent changes special page. Thanks.
:P.S. And... I would like to make a proposal: [[:metawikipedia:DPLforum|this extension]] acts like a forum inside the wiki and is better for discussions. [[User:Gregg|Gregg]] 17:38, August 26, 2006 (CDT)
:I've added the interwiki link and installed the forum extension. Haven't tested it out, but let's try it and see how it works. There's a sample forum [http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Index here]. — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])
::More help about the forum can be found [http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Help:Forums here]. --[[User:Gregg|Gregg]] 00:59, August 31, 2006 (CDT)
[[Category:OrthodoxWiki]]
[[bg:Project:Трапеза]]

== Language Boxes ==

Anyone interested in porting over some of the language templates (the boxes that indicate user proficiency) from Wikipedia? It might be helpful in identifying people re: the various localizations. — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

:I have started to do just that. Here is my personal [[User:Hellenica/Babel|"Babel project"]] with some of the work I've been attempting. I suppose recent changes and my user contributions would also provide a similar look. I hope the progress is satisfactory. [[User:Hellenica|Hellenica]] 21:46, November 30, 2006 (PST)

::I'm definitely liking these wikipedia imports, Hellenica. The language boxes are extremely useful (Spanish, anyone?), and the personal user ones are just fun.[[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 20:49, December 1, 2006 (PST)

== Cathedral of St. Petersburg, Russia ==

I've looked throughout the interweb and I simply can't find any place that says what the main cathedral of St. Petersburg is. Is it the Transfiguration? Kazan? I would think St. Isaac's would be "it" but non confirmation. Any help?

~N

*This may not be true today, but in the late Soviet days (1988, when I visited the city) when the present Partriarch Alexei was the diocesan bishop in, then, Leningrad he held services in Trinity Cathedral (the one recently damaged by fire) in the Alexander Nevesky Monastery, Lavra. Then, the Kazan Cathedral was a museum and St Issac's was closed. [[User:Wsk|Wsk]] 12:16, December 3, 2006 (PST)

*It appears to be Kazansky cathedral, re-open in 1998: http://www.kazansky-spb.ru

*Yes, the St. Petersburg Cathedral in honor of the Kazan' icon of the Mother God is the diocesan cathedral according to the Russian "Orthodox Encyclopedia" (http://ezh.sedmitza.ru/index.html?did=64, data up to 2004, with updates since then). The same is listed at the diocesan page on the "Drevo" online encyclopedia (http://drevo.pravbeseda.ru/index.php?id=607).

==Romanian speakers: pls help ro.orthodoxwiki.org project==
If you speak Romanian, please help also [http://ro.orthodoxwiki.org/ ro.orthodoxwiki.org] - Fr.Julian

Dacă vorbiţi româneşte, nu ezitaţi să daţi o mână de ajutor şi proiectului ro: [http://ro.orthodoxwiki.org/ ro.orthodoxwiki.org] - p.iulian [[User:Inistea|Inistea]] 14:30, December 7, 2006 (PST)

== WikEd editing tool ==

I've recently been using the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cacycle/wikEd WikEd tool] on Wikipedia, with success. The author says it should work on other wikis running the latest WikiMedia software, which I know we do. Can someone with more technical knowledge than I take a gander at the page and let me know if the tool would work here? Thanks. --[[User:Cholmes75|cholmes75]] 08:13, December 20, 2006 (PST)

: I just installed it (using the instructions on the page linked above), and it works just fine. For now, just paste the entire code into your User:username/monobook.js page. I don't see any reason why we can't make a template, as they have on en.wikipedia, but someone with more Wiki experience (and probably more authorization, possibly [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]]) needs to make that happen. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 06:37, January 5, 2007 (PST)

== Orthodox Understanding of the the date of the Last Supper ==

I understnad that most Orthodox theologians, as do I, follow the Gospel of John and do not consider the Last Supper a Passover Meal. If I understand correctly, one of the consequences of this understanding is the fact that leavened bread is used in the Eucharist in the Orthodox church. Are there other consequences, results, etc. of this understanding? It seems to me that the Synoptics agree with John, but have been misinterpreted.

I am writing an article on the date of the Last Supper, i.e., was it the Passover Meal (night beginning Nisan 15)or was it the night before (night beginning Nisan 14)? Apart from, or maybe along with, textual consideradions, the way the early Greek-speaking church understood the Supper must, it seems to me, be taken into consideration.

Not using unleavened bread points in that direction. Are there other things? I would be interested in orientation in this general area.

Note: I am 81, Ph.D. from Vanderbilt in 1963 in Biblical Studies, and speak English, Spanish and French. I would appreciate knowing about any relevant articles in any of these languages.

Thanks for any help. James M. Beaty

Hows does one use the talk page to reply to another user? Thanks.

== Uncategorized Images ==

Hello,
I was wondering why in the uncategorized picture section of OrthodoxWiki there is pictures of the Pope? He does not relate to the studies or teaching of Orthodoxy ( At least not to my knowledge ). I know that there have been talks to try and create a greater friendship with the catholics and the Pope. But I still do not think there should be a picture of him on a Orthodox site. I am only 18 and I'm still trying to understand my religion more and I think people might get the wrong impression if they see the Pope on the OrthodoxWiki site. Am I wrong to ask this? Because on a earlier post I noticed that Dcn. Andrew said "OrthodoxWiki is dedicated to Orthodox Christianity." Thanks.

P.S.
This is a great website and I learn allot from it.

== When does a hierarch begin his tenure? ==

According to the canons of the Orthodox Church, at which point does a hierarch ascend his cathedra? That is, if he is elected by the flock of his diocese/metropolia/autonomous Church (where such elections are provided for) is he already considered to occupy his see? Or, will he assume his post only after his election is confirmed by the hierarchal superiors? Or esle, will he do so only after the enthronement ceremony (where such is provided for)? In different lists of hierarchs I have seen different dates marking the beginning of their tenure.

I thank You for Your attention and ask, if possible, to advise Church texts to confirm this point.

== terminology ==

The term "Oriental Orthodox" is problematic, since it seems like a euphemism designed to avoid the term "Monophysite." The word "Oriental" really means "Eastern" so the term does not really distinguish the two sides of the debate. Also, the use of the word "Orthodox" implies an acceptance of the Orthodoxy of the non-Chalcedonians, which has still not been agreed upon by a consensus within the (Chalcedonian) Orthodox Church. I know that the term "Monophysite" is considered offensive by the non-Chalcedonians. Unfortunately the term "Miaphysite," coined by some to replace it, is a neologism that just doesn't work in the original Greek (would "miagamous" do as a replacement for "monogamous"?) and, in my opinion, serves to obscure the real ground of difference that still seems to separate the two sides. Since OrthodoxWiki is supposed to have a "mainstream Chalcedonian bias," wouldn't the terms "Chalcedonian" and "non-Chalcedonian" or "anti-Chalcedonian" be more appropriate? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:Mariner|Mariner]] ([[User talk:Mariner|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mariner|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

:Hi [[User:Mariner|Mariner]], please sign you posts with three tildes, so we can know who is talking - thanks.
:In my understanding, the term "monophysite" is not just offensive, it's inaccurate."Anti-Chalcedonian" may be correct as a historical reference, but perhaps not as a theological descriptor. "Non-Chalcedonian" would probably be the preferred term in my mind. "Oriental Orthodox" is generally understood, and does not, I think, cause much confusion. It also seems to be the preferred self-designation of the non-Chalcedonian groups. I don't have a problem granting them that name here. I do not think we need to go heresy hunting. Let us set forth our Chalcedonian understanding of Christology. If they can accept what we mean by this (and WHOM we mean by this), I think we are well on the way towards reunion. We may grant that language issues and imperial politics had a role to play in the division.
:If you could document statements by non-Chalcedonian bishops and theologians who would consider Chalcedonian Christology heretical, I think we'd have more to go on in our conversation (and perhaps some of the non-Chalcedonian folks would like to chime in too). — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

==Why I am Orthodox==
I made a page when anyone can write some phrases to show why he is Orthodox (what is for he more atractive in Orthodoxy), why he haven't chosen an other belief (what aspects that he didn't like it has and it is absent in our religion), or, simply, some beautiful thought from his soul, concerning the Orthodoxy.

The advantage of this page is that '''there is not needing to wait a special state to write an article. Becouse each of us have such thought in mind and we have only to insert them here. This requires only a few minutes''' (If we have more complex thought, we are creating our new page!)

So, the page could become an '''ode to Orthodoxy''', poem in which anyone can contribute and find something good for his soul.

At the end of page there are useful links that points to sites that promotes the Orthodoxy values.

The page is named [[Why I am Orthodox... And not Protestant, Catholic, Budist, etc. Live Apologetics]]

[[User:Mircea Romania|Mircea Romania]] 02:46, February 19, 2007 (PST)

: That is an interesting idea, but OrthodoxWiki is an encyclopedia, and these recent new articles are not really encyclopedic. Perhaps they might better be hosted elsewhere. —[[User:ASDamick|Fr. Andrew]] [[User_talk:ASDamick|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|contribs]] 15:36, February 19, 2007 (PST)

::Mircea, I would recommend checking out the forums section in the [[Online Orthodox Communities]] link here and trying your idea there. Besides the fact that the aim of this site is to be an Orthodox encyclopedia, you'd probbably get a much better response at an active forum. Honestly, the same few people tend to contribute a lot of the material here. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 19:04, February 19, 2007 (PST)

:Individual users may post things like this (within reason) on their user pages. I've moved the article there. — [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])

== denominative aspects of Eucharist ==

Since '''Intercommunion''' is a central--for my point of view, ''the'' central--matter in (inter-)christian dialogue--since Eucharist is the heart of Ecclesiology, of our self-awareness as members of Christ's body;
and since this site is a place not only for Orthodoxes who live among other fellow Christians, but also for they among them who strive to understand our distinctive character,
i think it would be of great significance if the article dedicated to Eucharist was enriched with a section where the other Christian denomination's Theology and Practice about Eucharist will be presented.
Of course that is not possible to be in a detailed and systematic manner, but it could be, at least, focused on the rationale we Orthodox deny Intercommunion with them though we do not deny other communication-relation in love with them.
: [[User:Vassilip|Vassilip]]

== Question: Autonomous Ukrainian Orthodox Church and Alexandrian Exarchate in the USA? ==

Does anyone have any information about an Autonomous Ukrainian jursidiction that was recognized as an exarchate of the Patriarchate of Alexandria sometime in the 1980's? Any information would be appreciated. ---Leonidas

== Picture ==
Could someone explain me how to post picture in article. I hope that tomorow I will have Icon of Saint Sava of Serbia. ---Ddpbf

== A question about a prayer in the original Greek ==
I am doing some research in Church history, investigating the validity of the technique of "historical criticism" using linguistics. :I am in the Byzantine Catholic Church. :My question involves the Stichera for the Office of Great Compline used, I believe, on December 31. It says, "The magi coming from the East adored God made man . . . they brought precious gifts: the purest gold as to the Eternal King." :My question is, Is the term "purest gold" used in the Greek? (Some critics say this is not a term used in the earliest ages of the Church.):Thank you for your kind attention.
[[User:MaryKNH|MaryKNH]]

== IW ==

Can someone of sysops look on [http://sr.orthodoxwiki.org sr.orthodoxwiki.org] and try to make interwikis to work. Also this would be nice if someone will make Special:Statistic to work. All the best --[[User:Jovanvb|Joca]] 04:01, March 27, 2007 (PDT)

User talk:Ddpbf

2007-03-27T10:24:33Z

Jovanvb: /* Serbian Orthowiki */

{{welcome}}

[[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 20:35, February 15, 2007 (PST)

== Chrysobull ==

Thanks for the clarification! (I found more [[w:Golden Bull|here]].) :) —[[User:Magda|magda]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 10:58, March 6, 2007 (PST)

== Succession boxes ==

Hello! I've noticed that you've been doing a lot of work on articles about bishops lately. Thank you! You may find it useful to take a look at the standardized [[OrthodoxWiki:Style Manual (Succession boxes)|manual on succession boxes]].

Thanks for your valuable work! —[[User:ASDamick|Fr. Andrew]] [[User_talk:ASDamick|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|contribs]] 08:59, March 10, 2007 (PST)

==English names==
Please read this link in regards to your revert of my changes in the Daniel II article: [[OrthodoxWiki:Style Manual#English names]]. The policy basically says that because this is an English-speaking wiki, we put names in English where possible. Likewise, we use New Calendar dates in most cases because in the English-speaking countries I'm aware of, only schismatic groups of Old Calendarists use the Julian calendar. Finally, if you're concerned about a Serbian not understanding the saint's name in English, how could he possibly understand the rest of the article, written in English? Sorry if I seem harsh; no offense intended. I know it takes a long time to figure out how everything on the wiki works. Heck, I still don't understand a lot of it. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 20:39, March 11, 2007 (PDT)

: As an expansion on this, the policy is not simply to use English versions of names, but rather whatever is most common in English-language sources. In many cases, this will not include a standard English version of a name, e.g., "Nikolai of Zica," etc.

: Also, for comments on the calendar question, see [[User_talk:Gabriela#Julian_calendar_among_Anglophones]]. —[[User:ASDamick|Fr. Andrew]] [[User_talk:ASDamick|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|contribs]] 09:45, March 20, 2007 (PDT)

:I think the problem here is that the English-speaking literature isn't the same across the board, because some of it has been written for people such as yourself who speak English non-natively and are thus more able to recognize a saint's name in their mother tongue. I understand Sava, because Sabbas isn't a common English name anyway, but common names like Paul or Daniel seem unlikely to be said as Pavle or Danilo by an Anglophone. Certain cases are debatable, but changing names like Varnava to Barnabas, for example, are specifically mandated in the style guide. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 11:30, March 20, 2007 (PDT)

:Sorry if I seemed harsh the first time; I reread the style guide and for some cases you do have a point. But I think that if your intention is to help Americans understand Orthodoxy, they're going to relate a lot better to someone named Stephen (the name found in their Bible) than to someone named Stefan. In any case, I'm willing to leave the more ambiguous Serbian names as they are from now on. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 11:35, March 20, 2007 (PDT)

::I'm happy we've come to an agreement. I think in a way we were both just fighting for our own respective language and culture. I understand why you'd want your saints' names in their original form. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 20:19, March 20, 2007 (PDT)

==British Orthodox Church article==
(pasted over by Gabriela from Ddpbf's main user page)
Please may I know what exactly was meant by the changes and redirect you made to British Orthodox Church that I started and now I can't find any trace of my edits of this page , did you delete my edits?--[[User:Ghaly|Ghaly]] 16:55, March 25, 2007 (PDT)

==Serbian Orthowiki==
Ah, that would be excellent! First I would suggest reading [[OrthodoxWiki:Localization]] to see some of the technicalities required. But to get authorization and get yourself added as an affiliate, you would need to talk to [[User:FrJohn|FrJohn]]. He's the boss around here, ultimately, and he'll be a lot better able to inform you of the specifics than I. Good luck, and I hope you had a blessed Annunciation! [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 20:44, March 25, 2007 (PDT)

:Oh, sorry, I forgot about the calendar difference. Well, I hope your Lent in general is going well, then! No problem about the edits; I think you've added a lot of good information to the wiki. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 09:24, March 26, 2007 (PDT)
*Помаже Бог. Ево регистровао сам се овде. Ево прво ћу направити главну страницу "наше" православне вики.

User:Jovanvb

2007-03-27T10:16:20Z

Jovanvb: something about mee

I am Jovan Vuković. My native language is Serbian and my english is poor, so my contributions on english version of orthodoxwiki will be minior. I am administrator and bureocrat on serbian version of wikipedia. I am there becouse I want to help in making serbian wersion of orthodoxwiki.

You can see my user page on sr-wiki [http://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Корисник:Јованвб there]