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Talk:Nicholas (Velimirović) of Žiča

2010-10-17T14:29:59Z

Questionmark:

Having a preference in all things for English names for saints --- just as we do with Johns, Pauls, Basils, and most other saints' names --- I've noted the usage of ''Nicholas,'' notably used by HB [[Herman (Swaiko) of Washington and New York|Met. Herman]] at the 2005 Pilgrimage at St. Tikhon Monastery, PA. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 18:35, March 28, 2006 (CST)

What does "now" in Crestwood, NY (written immediately afterward St. Vladimir's Theological Seminary) mean? Was the seminary located somewhere else previously?
[[User:Gabriela]] 12:56, May 3, 2006 (CST)

: Yep. It was initially located in NYC and housed in Columbia University. It wasn't in Crestwood until 1962. {{User:ASDamick/sig}} 15:59, May 3, 2006 (CDT)

:Huh, you learn something new everyday. Thanks. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 8:26, 13 May, 2006 (CST)

- I agree with changing Nikolai to Nicholas, or at least putting one in brackets.

Anyway, what is with the mention of him being accused of supporting the holocaust? That is an awful accusation to mention. Is there any foundation to this claim? Or can the comment be removed? [[User:Andreas|Andreas]]

: Even though it is most likely false, it is worth mentioning because it's a common accusation. Encyclopedic articles deal with what's notable about their subject, both good and bad. —[[User:ASDamick|Dcn. Andrew]] [[User_talk:ASDamick|talk]] [[Special:Randompage|random]] [[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|contribs]] 19:18, May 24, 2006 (CDT)

@ Andreas and Deac. Andrew : I'm afraid that the evidence supporting antisemitism exists among the writting of Nikolai Velimirovitch. For instance, in the bishop's essay called "''Nacionalizam Svetog Save''" (''Saint Sava's Nationalism'') written in 1938, bishop Nikolai promote his idea of a national church as being the ideal pursued by saint Sava. He concludes his essay as follows: " ''The idea pursued by Luther to create a national church in Germany was taken over by the current German leader [Hittler]... respect must be given to the current German leader who, as a simple citizen coming from the working class and at the same time a man from the people, has been able to perceive that nationalism without faith is a cold and uncertain mechanism. And now during the 20th century, he has achieved the idea of saint Sava and as a layman, has taken over the most important duty that characterizes only a saint, a genius and a hero. As for us, this duty was fullfilled by saint Sava''[...]"
His admiration for Hittler tells us something rather worying about his alleged antisemitism. Beyond the question of antisemitsm, there is the more general question about the nature of his nationalism (as it transpires from another of his writtings entitled "''srpski narod kao teodul''"). How compatible is his religious nationalism with the idea of a universal church one would wonder ?

By the way, thank you Deacon Andrew for your honesty by making mention of the antisemitsm accusations -eventhought I personally believe that religious nationalism is the true problem. Therefore, please do not remove this quote as '''there is''' scriptural evidence for it.

However, I have removed "is supposed to have approved of the Holocaust" since there is not a single explicit quote to back that serious claim.

''questionmark'' (7th of June 2010)
== Whats with the personal opinions? ==

Took out "which is more an allegation of historical fact rather than the racism which is the heart of anti-semitism." To me racism is racism regardless of who it's directed at but on top of that what in the world does that statement have to do with the life of the Nikolai Velimirovic?

I think it'd make a lot more sense to simply note that he was accused of anti-semitism, and that the facts do not bear this out without inserting subjective statements into the mix. {{unsigned|Kharaku}}

:Don't forget to sign your posts with a "<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>".
:As to your edit, I agree, but mainly because it removes an unnecessary line. Racism ''is'' at the heart of anti-semitism - as the words themselves will bear out (i.e. against a particular race); and it is to do with St Nikolai because he was accused of anti-semitism (and, therefore, of racism). Not much more than that.
:On another topic - I'm not sure on the reasoning behind this article being where it is, without denoting his last see (e.g. 'Nikolai (Velimirovic) of Zica') - wiser minds than I respond? — by [[User:Pistevo|Pιsτévο]] ''[[User talk:Pistevo|talk]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|complaints]]'' at 06:33, May 22, 2008 (UTC)

::Im not a wiser mind but the name does not conform with the Style Manual which says it should be "Nikolai (Velimorovic) of Zica". I have noticed Father Andrew (ASDamick) updates these articles to the Style Manual form when he notices them (if that helps). [[User:Ixthis888|Vasiliki]] 07:14, May 22, 2008 (UTC)

:::I think the reasoning would be that he is known better as "Nikolai Velimirovic" than "Nikolai of Zica," and would be [[OrthodoxWiki:Style_Manual_(People)#Sainted_bishops_.28and_other_historic_personages.29|an exception]]. —[[User:Magda|magda]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 15:32, May 22, 2008 (UTC)

Nicholas (Velimirović) of Žiča

2010-10-17T14:13:59Z

Questionmark: /* Alleged Anti-Semitism */

[[Image:StNikolaiVelimirovich.jpg|thumb|right|St. Nikolai Velimirovich (1880-1956)]]
{{orthodoxyinamerica}}
Our father among the saints, [[Bishop]] '''Nikolaj Velimirović''' (Николај Велимировић, [[January 5]], 1880 - [[March 18]], 1956, also rendered ''Nicholas'') was bishop of Žiča in Serbia and the author of several Orthodox books. His most widely-known work is the ''[[Prologue from Ohrid]]''. His first name is pronounced and sometimes written ''Nikolai''.

==Life==
Nikolaj Velimirović was born in the small village of Lelich in Western Serbia. He attended the Seminary of St. Sava in Belgrade and graduated in 1905. He obtained doctorates from the University of Berne (1908), while the thesis was published in German in 1910, whereas the doctor's degree in philosophy was prepared at Oxford and defended in Geneva (''Filosofija Berklija'' - ''Berkeley's Philosophy'', in French) in 1909. At the end of 1909 he entered a [[monasticism|monastic]] order. In 1919, then [[Archimandrite]] Nikolai was [[consecration of a bishop|consecrated]] Bishop of Žiča in the [[Church of Serbia]].

In April 1915 (during WWI) he was delegated to England and America by the Serbian Church, where he held numerous lectures, fighting for the unison of the Serbs and South Slavic peoples. At the beginning of 1919 he returned to Serbia, and in 1920 was posted to the Ohrid archbishopric in Macedonia, where in 1935, in Bitola he reconstructed the cemetery of the killed German soldiers.

During the Second World War in 1941 Bp. Nikolai was arrested by the Nazis in the [[Monastery]] of Žiča (which was soon afterwards robbed and ruined), after which he was confined in the Monastery of Ljubostinja (where, on the occasion of mass deaths by firing squad, he reacted saying: "Is this the German culture, to shoot hundred innocent Serbs, for one dead German soldier! The Turks have always proved to be more just..."). Later, this "new [[John Chrysostom|Chrysostom]]" was transferred to the Monastery of Vojlovica (near Pančevo) in which he was confined together with the Serbian patriarch, [[Gabriel (Dozic) of Serbia|Gavrilo (Dožić)]] until the end of 1944.

On [[December 14]], 1944 he was sent to Dachau, together with Serbian [[Patriarch]] Gavrilo, where some sources, especially the standard Church references, record that he suffered both imprisonment and torture.[http://www.serfes.org/lives/holyhierarchsaintnicholai.htm]

After the War he left Communist Yugoslavia and immigrated as a refugee to the United States in 1946 where he taught at several Orthodox Christian [[seminary|seminaries]] such as [[St. Sava's Serbian Orthodox Seminary (Libertyville, Illinois)|St. Sava's Serbian Orthodox Seminary]] in Libertyville, Illinois and [[St. Tikhon's Orthodox Theological Seminary (South Canaan, Pennsylvania)|St. Tikhon's Orthodox Theological Seminary]] and Monastery in South Canaan, Pennsylvania (where he was [[rector]] and also where he died) and [[St. Vladimir's Orthodox Theological Seminary (Crestwood, New York)|St. Vladimir's Orthodox Theological Seminary]] now in Crestwood, New York. He died on [[March 18]], 1956.

==Alleged Anti-Semitism==
Although recently [[Glorification|glorified]] as a saint by the [[Church of Serbia]], his writings remain highly controversial. Nikolaj Velimirovic was allegedly anti-semitic. (See Bishop Nikolaj Velimirovic: ''Addresses to the Serbian People—Through the Prison Window''. Himmelsthur, Germany: Serbian Orthodox Eparchy for Western Europe, 1985, pp. 161-162).

Others regard his address from Dachau as having been under duress[http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/kosta/pisma/l-serbs.are.new.jews.html][http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/kosta/pisma/l-a.little.more.truth.html] and point to the lack of other anti-semitic statements in the rest of his large corpus of writings. He is recorded variously to have said that the Jews "crucified [[Christ]]," but such a statement is historically no different from that in the [[Bible]] or what [[Christians]] have been saying for centuries.

==Glorification==
On [[May 19]], 2003, the Holy Assembly of Bishops of the Serbian Orthodox Church, with one heart and one voice, unanimously decided to enter Bishop Nicholai (Velimirovic) of Ohrid and Ziča into the calendar of saints of our Holy Orthodox Church.

St. Nikolai Velimirovich is often referred to as Serbia's New Chrysostom. St. [[John Maximovitch]], who had been a young instructor at a seminary in Bishop Nikolai's [[diocese]] of Ohrid, called him "a great saint and Chrysostom of our day [whose] significance for Orthodoxy in our time can be compared only with that of Metropolitan [[Anthony (Khrapovitsky) of Kiev|Anthony (Khrapovitsky)]]. ... They were both universal teachers of the Orthodox Church."

{{start box}}
{{succession|
before=Sava (Barać)|
title=Bishop of Žiča|
years=1919-1920|
after=Jefrem (Bojović)}}
{{succession|
before=Chrysostom (Kavourides), Metropolitan of Pelagonia|
title=Bishop of Ohrid|
years=1920-1929|
after=[[Platon of Banja Luka|St. Platon]]}}
{{succession|
before=Jefrem (Bojović)|
title=Bishop of Žiča|
years=1937-1956|
after=[[German of Serbia|German]]}}

{{end box}}

==Hymns==
[[Troparion]] (Tone 8)

:O golden-tongued preacher proclaiming the risen Christ,
:Everlasting guide of the cross-bearing Serbian people,
:Resounding harp of the Holy Spirit, and dear to monastics who rejoice in you,
:Pride and boast of the priesthood, teacher of repentance, master for all nations,
:Guide of those in the army of Christ as they pray to God,
:Holy Nicholas teacher in America and pride of the Serbian people,
:With all the saints, implore the only Lover of mankind
:To grant us peace and joy in his heavenly kingdom!

[[Kontakion]] (Tone 3)

:Born at Lelich in Serbia,
:You served as archpastor at the church of Saint Nahum in Ochrid.
:Taking your place on the throne of Saint Sabbas at Zhicha,
:You taught God's people and enlightened them with the Gospel.
:You brought people to repentance and the love of Christ,
:And for Christ you endured suffering at Dachau.
:Therefore we glorify you, a new Nicholas well–pleasing to God.

==Works==
===Prayers===
*[http://www.sv-luka.org/praylake/index.htm '''Prayers by the Lake'''] (1922), One hundred prayers by St Nikolai <ref>Copyright ©2004 [http://store.holycrossbookstore.com/prbylabbiniv.html Holy Cross Bookstore Online]</ref>.

===Books===
*''Beyond Sin and Death'' (1914)
*''The Spiritual Rebirth of Europe'' (1917)
*''Orations on the Universal Man'' (1920)
*''Thoughts on Good and Evil'' (1923)
*''Homilias, volumes I and II'' (1925)
*''[[Prologue from Ohrid]]'' (1926)
*''The Faith of Educated People'' (1928)
*''The War and the Bible'' (1931)
*''The Symbols and Signs'' (1932)
*''"Immanuel"'' (1937)
*''The Religion of Njegos''
*''Speeches under the Mount''
*''The Faith of the Saints'' (1949) (an Orthodox [[Catechism]] in English)
*''Cassiana - the Science on Love'' (1952)
*''The Only Love of Mankind'' (1958)
*''The First Gods Law and the Pyramid of Paradise'' (1959)
*''The Life of St. Sava''. St. Vladimir's Seminary Press, 1989. ISBN 0881410659

===Articles===
*"[http://s3.amazonaws.com/orthodox/WhyVigilLampsLitBeforeIcons.pdf Why are Vigil Lamps lit before Icons?]" (PDF)
* [http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles/VelimirovichBlessEnemies.shtml Quotation: Bless My Enemies O Lord -- by Bp. Nikolai Velimirovich]

==Notes==
<references/>

==External links==
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Velimirovic Wikipedia on Nikolai Velimirovic]
*[http://manybooks.net/authors/velimirovicn.html Works online] (''The New Ideal in Education'' and ''The Religious Spirit of the Slavs (1916)'')
*[http://www.roca.org/oa/158/158f.htm A detailed biography]
*[http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/Holy_Fathers/St._Nikolai_Velimirovich/index.shtml#_ftn3 The New Chrysostom, Bishop of Ochrid and Zhicha]
* [http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/stnikolai.aspx Life of St. Nikolai Velimirovich, The New Chrysostom, Bishop of Ochrid and Zhicha -- OrthodoxInfo.com])
*[http://www.gutenberg.org/author/Nikolai_Velimirovic Works by Nikolai Velimirovic] from Project Gutenberg
*[http://www.rferl.org/reports/eepreport/2004/02/4-180204.asp East European Perspectives, Article by J. Byford]
* Life of Bishop Nicholai (Velimirovich) in ''Portraits of American Saints'', Compiled and Edited by George A. Gray and Jan V. Bear, Diocese Council and Department of Missions Diocese of the West Orthodox Church in America, 650 Micheltorena Street, Los Angeles, California, 1994, pp. 74-77 (Quoted at [http://www.serfes.org/lives/holyhierarchsaintnicholai.htm Serfes.org])

[[Category:American Saints]]
[[Category:Bishops]]
[[Category:Bishops of Žiča]]
[[Category:Bishops of Ohrid-Bitola]]
[[Category:Modern Writers]]
[[Category:Saints]]
[[Category:Serbian Saints]]
[[Category:Modern Saints]]

[[ro:Nicolae (Velimirovici)]]

Talk:Nicholas (Velimirović) of Žiča

2010-06-07T12:25:31Z

Questionmark:

Having a preference in all things for English names for saints --- just as we do with Johns, Pauls, Basils, and most other saints' names --- I've noted the usage of ''Nicholas,'' notably used by HB [[Herman (Swaiko) of Washington and New York|Met. Herman]] at the 2005 Pilgrimage at St. Tikhon Monastery, PA. --[[User:Basil|Basil]] 18:35, March 28, 2006 (CST)

What does "now" in Crestwood, NY (written immediately afterward St. Vladimir's Theological Seminary) mean? Was the seminary located somewhere else previously?
[[User:Gabriela]] 12:56, May 3, 2006 (CST)

: Yep. It was initially located in NYC and housed in Columbia University. It wasn't in Crestwood until 1962. {{User:ASDamick/sig}} 15:59, May 3, 2006 (CDT)

:Huh, you learn something new everyday. Thanks. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 8:26, 13 May, 2006 (CST)

- I agree with changing Nikolai to Nicholas, or at least putting one in brackets.

Anyway, what is with the mention of him being accused of supporting the holocaust? That is an awful accusation to mention. Is there any foundation to this claim? Or can the comment be removed? [[User:Andreas|Andreas]]

: Even though it is most likely false, it is worth mentioning because it's a common accusation. Encyclopedic articles deal with what's notable about their subject, both good and bad. —[[User:ASDamick|Dcn. Andrew]] [[User_talk:ASDamick|talk]] [[Special:Randompage|random]] [[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|contribs]] 19:18, May 24, 2006 (CDT)

@ Andreas and Deac. Andrew : I'm afraid that the evidence supporting antisemitism exists among the writting of Nikolai Velimirovitch. For instance, in the bishop's essay called "''Nacionalizam Svetog Save''" (''Saint Sava's Nationalism'') written in 1938, bishop Nikolai promote his idea of a national church as being the ideal pursued by saint Sava. He concludes his essay as follows: " ''The idea pursued by Luther to create a national church in Germany was taken over by the current German leader [Hittler]... respect must be given to the current German leader who, as a simple citizen coming from the working class and at the same time a man from the people, has been able to perceive that nationalism without faith is a cold and uncertain mechanism. And now during the 20th century, he has achieved the idea of saint Sava and as a layman, has taken over the most important duty that characterizes only a saint, a genius and a hero. As for us, this duty was fullfilled by saint Sava''[...]"
His admiration for Hittler tells us something rather worying about his alleged antisemitism. Beyond the question of antisemitsm, there is the more general question about the nature of his nationalism (as it transpires from another of his writtings entitled "''srpski narod kao teodul''"). How compatible is his religious nationalism with the idea of a universal church one would wonder ?

By the way, thank you Deacon Andrew for your honesty by making mention of the antisemitsm accusations -eventhought I personally believe that religious nationalism is the true problem. Therefore, please do not remove this quote as '''there is''' scriptural evidence for it.

''questionmark'' (7th of June 2010)
== Whats with the personal opinions? ==

Took out "which is more an allegation of historical fact rather than the racism which is the heart of anti-semitism." To me racism is racism regardless of who it's directed at but on top of that what in the world does that statement have to do with the life of the Nikolai Velimirovic?

I think it'd make a lot more sense to simply note that he was accused of anti-semitism, and that the facts do not bear this out without inserting subjective statements into the mix. {{unsigned|Kharaku}}

:Don't forget to sign your posts with a "<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>".
:As to your edit, I agree, but mainly because it removes an unnecessary line. Racism ''is'' at the heart of anti-semitism - as the words themselves will bear out (i.e. against a particular race); and it is to do with St Nikolai because he was accused of anti-semitism (and, therefore, of racism). Not much more than that.
:On another topic - I'm not sure on the reasoning behind this article being where it is, without denoting his last see (e.g. 'Nikolai (Velimirovic) of Zica') - wiser minds than I respond? — by [[User:Pistevo|Pιsτévο]] ''[[User talk:Pistevo|talk]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|complaints]]'' at 06:33, May 22, 2008 (UTC)

::Im not a wiser mind but the name does not conform with the Style Manual which says it should be "Nikolai (Velimorovic) of Zica". I have noticed Father Andrew (ASDamick) updates these articles to the Style Manual form when he notices them (if that helps). [[User:Ixthis888|Vasiliki]] 07:14, May 22, 2008 (UTC)

:::I think the reasoning would be that he is known better as "Nikolai Velimirovic" than "Nikolai of Zica," and would be [[OrthodoxWiki:Style_Manual_(People)#Sainted_bishops_.28and_other_historic_personages.29|an exception]]. —[[User:Magda|magda]] ([[User_talk:Magda|talk]]) 15:32, May 22, 2008 (UTC)